Haarms update.

[Son_Of_Saul]

That’s just a lie.

His post may not be entirely factual (because Kentucky was not favored against UNC in 2017), but we were favored against 2010 WVU, 2011 UConn,2013 Robert Morris, 2014 UConn, 2015 Wisconsin, 2016 Indiana, 2018 Kansas State, and 2019 Auburn.

But what does Vegas know? They're only in the business of protecting their billion-dollar industry and all.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

No you don’t. At least if you think you can fit me in that extremely reductive categorization that could’ve easily been explained in a lot less words.

You:

A contrarian who most typically likes to post when he's correcting someone.


How'd I do?

 

[oldsports_]

Sorry for not updating today. We are down to 1 reporter, 3 have left.
What we do know, his car was gone all day, and no one knew his destination. Car isn't back, and the one reporter is off the clock

This is looking quite grave. TBH

 

[oldsports_]

Watch Rupp Rafters implode if he goes elsewhere.

 

[Bill Withers]

Yeah, I don't get it. Contrarian perspectives are a good thing, right? I'm not sure what some of them want from our message board community. A thousand posts all reflecting the same "ra-ra-isms?" Just eat your greens and be glad we're not Tennessee or Auburn? Is that it?

It might be easy for someone to counter this by saying, "yeah, but you guys are always negative." That's easily refutable, however. In 2012, we were all in lockstep. During much of the 2015 run, we were in lockstep. During the fall of 2009, we were in lockstep. When we landed that prized class of '13 with Randle and company, we all exuded eagerness and excitement.

The fan base comes together when there's reason to do so. We all cheer for the team in March, and we all hail elite recruiting victories with a common anthem of anticipation. Ultimately, we all want to win a title. The differences aren't really that pronounced, so the "arguments" often fall within the lines of what forms of recruiting paradigms fans favor or what type of playing style should be emphasized given a particular roster construction.

And yes, we've got it made as a fan base and we're definitely spoiled. But that's also because we have 81 years of the best tradition in the sport. There's going to be some expectations when you have that type of paradigm. Trying to get everyone to just "go with the flow" when you have a tradition like Kentucky's is completely unreasonable.

Excellent post! Sometimes, if you truly open your mind and try to understand a differing point of view, you get a better understanding of the topic. Sadly, most really don't want that, however.

 

[Bill Withers]

Maybe.

But I do know where you're coming from.

As do I, the toilet bowl.

 

[HagginHall1999]

You’re not discussing anything, you just seem to be under the belief things are always going to go badly.

It is basically always whining when your coach has an 80% winning percentage and gone to 4 FF's in 10 years.

UK under Cal has been to 1 less FF than all of our coaches combined between 1984 and 2009.

Elite Eights are not good seasons (KyJeff1- his words) but we have just 38 in our NCAA tourney history. That's a shade over 50% since 1942. Cal has been to 7 in 10 tries. Oh yeah and there are actually 65 teams in the tourney now....not 8, or 16, or 22 or 25 or 32...65.

Oh and that one big part. Our program has not been mentioned once in this FBI crap insinuating we are paying players.

Some people are just never pleased.

 

[kl40504_rivals]

"So"

Nice

 

[kl40504_rivals]

Like I say, I’d rather spend the next six months imagining the ways it all works out than whining and crying.

And if you want to cite odds, eight out of eleven. That’s the number of times Cal has fielded a team with a legitimate chance of going the distance: 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 17, 19, 20. Looked at that way, betting against Cal and the Cats is what’s foolish.

Kyjeff is not going to like you quoting facts. That hurts his negative nannie agenda. He is going to call you a sunshine pumper.

 

[Bill Withers]

It is basically always whining when your coach has an 80% winning percentage and gone to 4 FF's in 10 years.

UK under Cal has been to 1 less FF than all of our coaches combined between 1984 and 2009.

Elite Eights are not good seasons (his words) but we have just 38 in our NCAA tourney history. That's a shade over 50% since 1942. Cal has been to 7 in 10 tries. Oh yeah and there are actually 65 teams in the tourney now....not 8, or 16, or 22 or 25 or 32...65.

Oh and that one big part. Our program has not been mentioned once in this FBI crap insinuating we are paying players.

Some people are just never pleased.

Could be that they are mostly pleased, but still want to discuss things that could make it better? Is that necessarily a bad thing? Or is it as bad as whining about whining?

 

[kl40504_rivals]

Could be that they are mostly pleased, but still want to discuss things that could make it better? Is that necessarily a bad thing? Or is it as bad as whining about whining?

We know you are a whiner. Just want to know what will make you happy. Please give us some insight.

 

[dave5164]

The only thing I don't understand was he was waiting on Richards and EJ to see what they were doing next season. Both now headed to the NBA and we had a poster to say that EJ was a factor because of the playing time. If you look at the Gonzaga Roster for next season they still have a couple of centers and 2 more that is 6'10 PF's. He will get 25-30 minutes here at UK next season with currently no Centers. We do have Jackson that will backup at center but still Haarms has 30 minutes here if he comes to UK.

My concern is that we have the Center position open for Haarms to play 25-30 mpg next year. At the start of recruiting Haarms is concern coming to UK was Richards and EJ. It sounded to me at the start of the Haarms recruiting process he was so excited with the Cal pitch, now with Richards/EJ declaring NBA UK is not his first choice right now. Haarms has everything right here at UK with Richards/EJ leaving, coach Payne working with him at Center, best school, coach, fanbase, the 25-30 minutes a game. With all of this available at UK right now if UK was #1 he would have already selected UK last week or over the weekend. Coach Cal better start looking for another Center to come in next season. We all know how Coach Cal talks about the Center position and how valuable it is to have a big man. Cal better look at other options and get one in here for next season.

 

[Hoskins91_rivals]

His post may not be entirely factual (because Kentucky was not favored against UNC in 2017), but we were favored against 2010 WVU, 2011 UConn,2013 Robert Morris, 2014 UConn, 2015 Wisconsin, 2016 Indiana, 2018 Kansas State, and 2019 Auburn.

But what does Vegas know? They're only in the business of protecting their billion-dollar industry and all.

Okay, first, that ignores what we did to get that far each of those years in the first place. Two, you can never take Kentucky lines completely seriously because we get a lot of play by people who just bet on us because we’re UK.

Maybe I misunderstood what he said, but he seemed to be under the impression we were the best team every year, or at least we should have been.

I’m still gonna go year by year.

2010: I’ll go along that it was an upset. I’d disagree we were clearly the best team that year, but sure.

2011:You’re asking me to be upset that we lost to a UConn team that had the best player in Kemba Walker. Along with other future pros in Jeremy Lamb, and Shabazz Napier on it. Also ignoring the fact in order to even get there we beat the one and two seed.

2013: I don’t get why anyone would be hanging on to this season as proof of anything, and I don’t care to argue anything about it. I was just happy it was over.

2014: Maybe Vegas says otherwise, but I feel like most people would agree we pulled four upsets to even get to that point. I don’t remember or care who was favored against Kansas State. WCS was already out, but Randle clearly wasn’t 100%. Making Napier the best guy on the floor. We looked like the team we were most of the year.

2015: I won’t argue that we had this and screwed it up. That Wisconsin team was really good, so I don’t see it as some great shame we lost to them.

2016: I don’t care to fact check you on this, but I have a hard time believing any reasonable person being shocked we lost this game. In order to beat any good team, Murray and Ulis had to come up big. There wasn’t a whole lot else there.

2018: Same thing. We were playing better at the end of the year, but we still lost 10 games. Your top two weren’t as good either.

2019: I keep seeing people act like that Auburn team was terrible. They lost two more games than we did. They won the SEC tourney and beat UNC and Kansas to get to the elite eight. Again, I don’t see it as some miraculous upset.

Maybe I’m better at adjusting my expectations than some people are. It seems like a lot of people just make up there minds about what we should be and refuse to accept reality. Despite that I still thought we had a real shot in all of these games. Whatever. What he said was still bs.

 

[Hoskins91_rivals]

Could be that they are mostly pleased, but still want to discuss things that could make it better? Is that necessarily a bad thing? Or is it as bad as whining about whining?

Are you referring to someone in particular? I am, a group of people in fact. They’re still wrong, but I would be a lot less bothered by it if it didn’t come across as the only reason a lot of these people come on here. The “both sides” argument is too often used by people who are ignorant of the situation but still want to come across like they have something meaningful to say.

 

[Hoskins91_rivals]

You:

A contrarian who most typically likes to post when he's correcting someone.


How'd I do?

I’d say “trying to be realistic while maintaining a generally optimistic view”. Maybe try it? Seems healthier than coming in with the expectations you seem to every year. You wouldn’t have the mood swings.

Come back to me in another 5-10 years if we haven’t accomplished anything.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I’d say “trying to be realistic while maintaining a generally optimistic view”. Maybe try it? Seems healthier than coming in with the expectations you seem to every year. You wouldn’t have the mood swings.

Come back to me in another 5-10 years if we haven’t accomplished anything.

It seems you might be confusing me with the conglomerate of folks you argue with.

My expectations over the last few years have generally been those of Elite Eightish-level teams. I didn't think we'd beat Wisconsin in '15, and I didn't think we'd beat UNC in '17. The '18 and '19 losses were travesties given the complexity of our opponents. Even still, I didn't see either of those teams as teams I'd expect a championship from.

Recruiting is the foundation for me. It's where you'll find most of my lamentations; and that's because I have seen the impact of top 5 picks on Calipari teams. Since 2008, he wins almost 8 more games a year when he as a top 5 pick on his roster. That's significant. Top five picks, not coincidentally, often derive from the ranks of the elite recruits of a particular freshmen class. It's why I spend so much time discussing recruiting.

 

[bucsrule8872]

I’d say “trying to be realistic while maintaining a generally optimistic view”. Maybe try it? Seems healthier than coming in with the expectations you seem to every year. You wouldn’t have the mood swings.

Come back to me in another 5-10 years if we haven’t accomplished anything.

I think “realistic while maintaining a generally optimistic view” describes SoS perfectly.

 

[CB3UK]

2019: I keep seeing people act like that Auburn team was terrible. They lost two more games than we did. They won the SEC tourney and beat UNC and Kansas to get to the elite eight. Again, I don’t see it as some miraculous upset.

We beat them by 27 pts just two weeks prior when they were at full strength to boot. No one said Auburn was bad. The loss was still inexcusable. We were up by 12 or 14 at point IIRC. We choked, and it was a bad loss.

 

[fatguy87]

His post may not be entirely factual (because Kentucky was not favored against UNC in 2017), but we were favored against 2010 WVU, 2011 UConn,2013 Robert Morris, 2014 UConn, 2015 Wisconsin, 2016 Indiana, 2018 Kansas State, and 2019 Auburn.

But what does Vegas know? They're only in the business of protecting their billion-dollar industry and all.

A strong 1 seed like the 2012 team, will have about a 30% chance to win the championship in a given year. They'd be a favorite, by definition, in every single one of their games, but will lose one of them in 70% of tournaments. That's a rate of 7 losses in 10 tournaments to underdogs. A good team will have losses to underdogs in the vast majority of tournament games. It's the nature of being good. The volume of games against underdogs is large and losses are bound to accumulate over time.

Anyway, the root of that discussions was the false talent=ability equivalence. There are plenty of talented players who aren't good players as freshman. Lebron James was the most talented player in the NBA as a rookie, but he wasn't the best player. Heck, professionals with money on the line time after time prove to be rather horrible judges of talent. Look at the NBA draft as an example. The fact is that we misjudge talent all the time and talent by itself isn't the sole determiner of ability in the present.

 

[Bill Withers]

Are you referring to someone in particular? I am, a group of people in fact. They’re still wrong, but I would be a lot less bothered by it if it didn’t come across as the only reason a lot of these people come on here. The “both sides” argument is too often used by people who are ignorant of the situation but still want to come across like they have something meaningful to say.

Did I quote your post? No? Then I probably wasn't referencing you. Not everything is about hoskins91. What an ego.

 

[kyjeff1]

You live in a fantasy world Jeff.

No, you live in la la land.

 

[kyjeff1]

That’s just a lie.

I went and looked back through the thread and I didn't see where anyone asked for your opinion.

 

[kyjeff1]

You’re not discussing anything, you just seem to be under the belief things are always going to go badly. You clearly don’t seem to have a good grasp on reality if the last 5 years since our last final four are, in your view, a reason to be deeply concerned.

I've discussed my points for the last two months and I'm sorry, but you're not important enough for me to rehash everything again. If you don't see it now, you won't see it after I explain it to you.

 

[kyjeff1]

Nice

So

 

[Mike-D]

Interesting. So, if this is correct (who is this guy?) then Gonzaga would be his first choice and UK is the backup plan?

Hearing that UK will likely not be the destination.

 

[Drcats2025]

Someone that knows, explain to me how a username with ***** in it gets passed by mods? Do they not actually see what they say?

 

[HagginHall1999]

Could be that they are mostly pleased, but still want to discuss things that could make it better? Is that necessarily a bad thing? Or is it as bad as whining about whining?

There is no discussion to be had with people that don't respond or review factual data.

 

[FrankUnderwood]

We beat them by 27 pts just two weeks prior when they were at full strength to boot. No one said Auburn was bad. The loss was still inexcusable. We were up by 12 or 14 at point IIRC. We choked, and it was a bad loss.

So? It happens man.

 

[kl40504_rivals]

I went and looked back through the thread and I didn't see where anyone asked for your opinion.

Not very nice Jeff. You are back to your old self.

 

[kyjeff1]

Not very nice Jeff. You are back to your old self.

So

 

[Cats192]

Yeah, I don't get it. Contrarian perspectives are a good thing, right? I'm not sure what some of them want from our message board community. A thousand posts all reflecting the same "ra-ra-isms?" Just eat your greens and be glad we're not Tennessee or Auburn? Is that it?

It might be easy for someone to counter this by saying, "yeah, but you guys are always negative." That's easily refutable, however. In 2012, we were all in lockstep. During much of the 2015 run, we were in lockstep. During the fall of 2009, we were in lockstep. When we landed that prized class of '13 with Randle and company, we all exuded eagerness and excitement.

The fan base comes together when there's reason to do so. We all cheer for the team in March, and we all hail elite recruiting victories with a common anthem of anticipation. Ultimately, we all want to win a title. The differences aren't really that pronounced, so the "arguments" often fall within the lines of what forms of recruiting paradigms fans favor or what type of playing style should be emphasized given a particular roster construction.

And yes, we've got it made as a fan base and we're definitely spoiled. But that's also because we have 81 years of the best tradition in the sport. There's going to be some expectations when you have that type of paradigm. Trying to get everyone to just "go with the flow" when you have a tradition like Kentucky's is completely unreasonable.

Great post, as always.

There was a time different perspectives were valued. You learned, you grew from people with different thoughts.

Now they're viewed as insulting. How dare someone state your thought process could be wrong. Clearly they have an ulterior motive.

I've been posting here off and on for probably 10 years or so. I came here so excited to discuss the in's and out's. Let's talk about what Kentucky needs to do to win it all. And the first time I posted that a guy was doing something less than perfect--"You're not a real fan! Duke Fan! Go back to your board!"

And it's just wild that anything other than CATSGOODGONNAWIN9 is met with such hell.

 

[LowCountryCat]

I went and looked back through the thread and I didn't see where anyone asked for your opinion.

Petty and small. You’re losing your composure.

 

[kyjeff1]

Petty and small. You’re losing your composure.

My response to his comment was better than going through the motions of having to explain myself again.

It really isn't rocket science, most understood why I said what I said.

 

[RoyKent]

TJ Walker says momentum is shifting away from UK for Haarms

 

[shutzhund]

My response to his comment was better than.going through the motions of having to explain myself again.

It really isn't rocket science, most understood why I said what I said.

 

[LowCountryCat]

TJ Walker says momentum is shifting away from UK for Haarms

He probably read this sh**y thread.

 

[LowCountryCat]

My response to his comment was better than going through the motions of having to explain myself again.

It really isn't rocket science, most understood why I said what I said.

Yet you went through the motions of going through the entire thread to see if anyone had asked for his opinion?

You pollute even this thread which is supposed to be a Haarms update thread, and now it's four pages of crapola.

Can't you just make a thread entitled "I hate Calipari" and stay there instead of contaminating every other discussion?

 

[TomTraubertsBlues]

TJ Walker says momentum is shifting away from UK for Haarms

Shocker. Starting to think we will never ever win another battle for transfers or Top 5 bigs. I don't know what the hell happened.

 

[kyjeff1]

Yet you went through the motions of going through the entire thread to see if anyone had asked for his opinion?

You pollute even this thread which is supposed to be a Haarms update thread, and now it's four pages of crapola.

Can't you just make a thread entitled "I hate Calipari" and stay there instead of contaminating every other discussion?

Another clueless poster.

I don’t know how many times I have to repeat myself, nobody hates Calipari. We don't like losing underdeveloped players to the GL.

You're complaining that so many threads are littered with comments you don't like, but thanks to your ignorance, I've had to waste another post in a thread to explain the obvious to you.

What you and the rest of the sunshine pumpers don’t understand is it's YOU guys that keep it going.

I'm not the one running around asking pumpers, like you, to constantly re-explain themselves, YOU guys are the ones doing that.

I have been very mellow and I'm also following board rules, so I don't understand the issue you have.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

TJ Walker says momentum is shifting away from UK for Haarms

So Matt Jones and $Z71$ were just full of it.....wow, how shocking.