Guard oriented team.
- Thread starter zappaa
- Start date
Jalen Miller might have had a hard time adjusting his offense to the college game his true freshman season but might be ready to produce on both ends of the floor as a sophomore .
Sometimes not ajusting to the college game in first college season is taken as a lack of talent, when it only is not ready for prime time right away and the next season ready and able to go
We'd be a better team offensively. Only year in the message board era where my expectations were higher than the message board consensus.
3. We didn’t replace his toughness, yet the team improved due to a Myles leap protecting the rim and overall depth
2. Turns out the RAC has ghosts even when empty
1. Overall defense dropped off, but progressed as the season went on due to mass improvement by Cliff and Caleb pressuring the best opposing player, as well as some occasional zone
0. I think we cycle back around…this team may play tougher than the teams of the last year or two and get back to all hands crashing the offensive glass. Hopefully opposing defenses are keyed in on the lob to cliff and it makes for our counter moves to be easier.
As great as Ron and Geo were, I’m not sure either had such strong gravity that opposing defenses got sucked out of shape by them. I think if Cliff makes small improvements, he is a gravitational pull that entire defenses need to respond to giving us open shooters/cutters etc.
I’m not saying there are no concerns but you are massively exaggerating the requirements to simply not be “very worried”.
4 of those 5 things need to happen? No way. If Simpson comes in as game ready as Geo did AND Spencer proves to be a reliable BIG level starting shooting guard, we will have a solid NCAA team. That’d be true even if Hyatt (at the 4 - he won’t play perimeter anymore), Mag and Jalen are exactly what they were last season and Paul, Caleb and Cliff don’t improve at all. Yes - it’s true that an extended injury to any of those 3 would hurt us a lot but that’s true of pretty much every team with their best players.
Cliff and Dean take 40 at the 5.
160 minutes left for everyone else. If we allocate 66 to Caleb and Paul there is still 94 to fill.
160 minutes left for everyone else. If we allocate 66 to Caleb and Paul there is still 94 to fill.
Hyatt, Mag and Jalen combined for about 30 minutes last season so that drops it down to a starting point of 64 minutes without even the slightest bump in PT for any of them.
Even if each of them averaged only a modest 5 minutes more per game than last season your then talking about less than 50 minutes to allocate across the 3 new players and any time that Dean and Cliff play together. And that’s assuming only limited development from all 3 - Hyatt, Mag, Jalen. If any of them make strides they will collectively combine for a bump far greater than 15 minutes in aggregate.
It doesn’t seem to be as big a gap to fill as your making it out to be. We can’t have everything go wrong but as long as a couple things go right we should be okay.
You kind of make my point….when Hyatt was playing a lot of minutes we were a bad team. When his minutes got cut we started to win.
Hyatt played a grand total of 100 minutes in the last 13 games. This at a time where we desperately needed minutes to give starters rest.
Miller played 81 minutes in those 13 games
Mag played 136 in those 13 games…however only 94 in last 11.
Hyatt played a grand total of 100 minutes in the last 13 games. This at a time where we desperately needed minutes to give starters rest.
Miller played 81 minutes in those 13 games
Mag played 136 in those 13 games…however only 94 in last 11.
Down the stretch last year
Hyatt 8
Miller 6
Mag 9
Now we need them PLUS Spencer to play a lot of minutes.
I’d feel better with another body that could score, but I fear it might be too late.
Hyatt 8
Miller 6
Mag 9
Now we need them PLUS Spencer to play a lot of minutes.
I’d feel better with another body that could score, but I fear it might be too late.
Our offense will be worse with <7 seconds on the shot clock this year. I am cautiously optimistic it will be noticeably better in the first 23 seconds.
That is almost a given against most of the OOC schedule. Not as easy to run offense against better competition. Cliff also needs to be in the best shape of his life.
There is a lot riding on what Spencer can and can not do. I have no idea what to expect. It is imperative he is a B1G level scorer for this team to succeed,
I wasn’t a fan of Hyatt’s game last year either, but it wasn’t as black and white as your making. I see the reduced PT being more about Pike not playing Hyatt on the perimeter anymore. A by-product of that was less PT for Hyatt since RHJ happened to play the 4. But Hyatt’s biggest issues are 1) he’s an atrocious ball handle 2) he can’t defend perimeter players and 3) he’s not a good perimeter shooter. Those shortcomings are less of a concern with him at the 4.
But there’s also Simpson who could come in and contribute right away. Caleb’s offensive game will hopefully look different in a system where he’s forced to handle the ball more. In the least, I’d expect to see him at the line a bunch more (like when he was a frosh).
There are other guys who may or may not develop. Your making it like it’s a given that nobody else will improve from where they were last season and the frosh won’t be significant contributors. I’m not saying all of these things will happen, but if even a few positive developments happen we will be ok. Our starting point isn’t that bad - 3 of 5 returning players who basically played the whole game last season, 3 brand new recruits in the mix, and 4 role players who contributed last season.
Your description of Hyatt doesn’t leave me warm and fuzzy. It sounds like a guy we want playing 5-10 MPG.
I had my checklist and I don’t think we can leave 2+ things off it.
I have no idea what to expect from Simpson and Spencer. Quite frankly I have no idea what to expect from Caleb offensively, we all saw last year the two extremes. What do we get from Paul? Last year he was terrible when he took an increased offensive role early in the season and then all of a sudden he became Magic Johnson for 6 games and took a monster sized role in the offense.
I honestly think we could be a 14-6 B1G team or a 4-16 B1G team. Either wouldn’t surprise me in the least.
I bank on Hyatt improving. I think Mag is going to make a huge leap. I see Mag as a Eugene type defensively with solid contributions on offense.
Everyone is concerned about offense, but I really think this team will be back to holding opponents under 50 points occasionally this season.
Will be curious to see if we run anymore zone this year. Pike typically hates it, but if we’re running lineups where our smallest guy is 6’5 and we’re all length, youd think we would do it. Especially when Paul/Hyatt struggle to stay in front of guards
Everyone is concerned about offense, but I really think this team will be back to holding opponents under 50 points occasionally this season.
Will be curious to see if we run anymore zone this year. Pike typically hates it, but if we’re running lineups where our smallest guy is 6’5 and we’re all length, youd think we would do it. Especially when Paul/Hyatt struggle to stay in front of guards
Most 4s aren’t great ball handlers or outside shooters though. Hyatt plays tough and grabs rebounds. He can also post up in short penetration situations. Mag offers similar upside - he’s slightly less physical as a 4 but a better defender of guards on switch rotations - also not a good shooter or ball handler).
I agree that these guys are far from a great replacement for Ron, but if we improve even a little bit at 3 if the 4 other positions simply from year over year development (and the combination of Cam / Simpson neutralizes the loss of Geo) we’ll be ok.
It depends - Hyatt is the bigger body and a significantly better rebounder in the post. On a per minute basis he grabbed more rebounds than Ron last year (so did Caleb by the way). I do see reason to be hopeful that combo with Caleb / Hyatt / Cliff playing together would position us to return to being a strong offensive rebounding team (we saw a drop off in this area last year).
First of all, we cannot replace Ron and Geo's contributions to the team with any combination of Cam, Dean, Hyatt, Mag, Miller, Oskar, or the freshmen. So, for us to make the NCAAs, they will have to meet some high expectations, even with our very solid core of Cliff, Paul, and Caleb. It'll be interesting to see how the team develops. Pike will earn his money this season, but he's probably very excited about the challenge ahead.
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Thiam inflated his numbers that year against our weak OOC schedule.
Thiam conference-only ORtg:
67.6
93.5
87.6
Hyatt conference-only ORtg:
91.4
116.2
93.5
I do share your concern that he will be needed to do too much and we need Spencer to score efficiently with volume to alleviate that.
If we hit at least 4 of these we are looking at a double bye and sweet 16 run
It’s a fair come back to the point raised, but note that Isa was a polar opposite style player. Hyatt is a bruiser - he’s not soft. His defensive issues are confined to perimeter woes - a product of poor footwork. I get that even at the 4 there are switch rotations where his issues can still be a liability but it’s much more limited. He’s at least an above average interior defender - I wouldn’t call him a rim protector but as number 2 to Cliff down there he can hold his own (Isa, in contrast, was one of the worst post defenders for a big in recent RU history).
I was just responding to kcg about efficiency. Chilling out at the 3 point line and making 37% of wide open looks and doing nothing else is super efficient, but.....
Yeah I know. I get that. I think KCG’s point though was that when Hyatt’s role was confined to mostly put backs and interior post up penetration that year he was a more efficient player (not so much that he expects Hyatt to become a more reliable outside shooter).
We have discussed on this board numerous times the flaws in usage and efficiency........
Harper was a 22.8%
Baker was 21.4%
Paul was 20.4%
Cliff was 19.1%
Caleb was 16.6%
Pretty balanced.......
I don't think we want any of the 5 on the floor to be low usage players. I'd expect Paul and Cliff to be 44% combined and don't want to see Caleb over 20%. I think the "4" has to play a decent role in the offense. I still think Pike plays his best four players + Cliff and am expecting a non "4" playing the "4" most games in crunch time.
A lot depends what Cam Spencer’s defense looks. If he holds his own we’ll probably see more traditional play with Hyatt at the 4. Hyatt can’t bail anyone out on the perimeter the way Ron could. That’s the problem and the upside that Mag brings. But if Simpson comes in game ready and defends like a Tez type, or Cam holds his own Pike may favor going with a more reliable rebounder at the 4. It wasn’t just offensive boards that dipped last year. It was on the defensive end too.
We probably have to be okay with a bump in Caleb’s statistical usage. Paul will run the offense, but Caleb handles on ball pressure better than him (it’s really not close). Caleb will have the ball in his hands in situations where teams apply tight on ball pressure (where Geo would’ve brought the ball up in the past). Unless Simpson comes in a stud we simply don’t have anyone to fill this role. This alone is going to end up bumping Caleb’s usage (hopefully because he draws more fouls and not because he can’t find an open man and forces shots).
Those 106 minutes are good for 37 ppg
I think those other 93 minutes can be efficiently
Filled by Spenser ; Hyatt, mag and Simpson with a sprinkle of killer and get 33-35 ppg to get to 70-72 a game
Killer is a 2nd cousin of Sid Finch. He plays in crocs and shots 3s with both hands and elevates 3 feet on jumpers.