Grady

[kelzer]

Well, nice work, but I have some #s to counter you with.

Kellen Grady - Career
2FGs - 4.3 / 7.8 = 55%
3FGs - 2.1 / 5.7 = 37%
Total Shooting % = 47.2%
17.4 PPG average

CJ Fredrick - Career
2FGs - 1.5 / 3.1 = 49%
3FGS - 1.6 / 3.4 = 47%
Total Shooting % = 47.9%
8.8 PPG average

CJ has actually taken more 3's than 2's a complete opposite of your argument.
Grady took over double the #2 compared to 3's.
One thing you did not mention, Grady was the FOCAL point of opposing defenses and they game planned for him. Where as CJ Fredrick had the luxury of being the 3/4th option at Iowa, sometimes even 5th. So you argument just does not hold water. I am very happy we got CJ and think he will be a very solid contributor when it is all said and done. But he and Grady are not even close to being comparable and he is not near being in the same league as Grady. He may get there, but Grady got there year 1 as a freshman. He has been the model of consistency.
FR. - 8.0 PPG -2FGs - 4.4 / 7.3 = 60% 3FGs - 3.2 / 5.9 = 37%
SO. -17.3 PPG -2FGs - 4.5 / 8.7 = 52% 3FGs - 1.9 / 5.7 = 34%
JR. - 17.2 PPG -2FGs - 4.5 / 8.7 = 52% 3FGs - 1.7 / 4.6 = 37%
SR. - 17.1 PPG -2FGs - 3.5 / 6.2 = 57% 3FGs - 2.6 / 6.9 = 38%

First of all, I love Grady's game, and like many others I expect him to probably lead the team in scoring.

I compared last year. Don't you think last year is more pertinent than 4 years ago?

And how can you compare career numbers between a guy who's played all 4 of his college years, and is only eligible for one more because of covid, to a guy who has only played 2 years so far?

I could argue that CJ made his teammates numbers better because he drew defenders out beyond the 3-pt line, opening things up for everybody else. That doesn't show up in his stats.

My point was only to dispel the notion that CJ is just a 3-pt shooter. He's not. He's a very capable all around scorer.

I really think the 2 of them could be very effective together, much like CJ and Joe Wieskamp were very effective playing together.

 

[kyjeff1]

Assuming Cal rarely if ever plays Brooks or Toppin at the 3, then I think he takes minutes away from all the guards. We'll see if he sticks with it, but Cal's already said he might press this year - if he does guys are going to need to come out more often and won't be playing 30+ minutes.

I hate to be posting negative things about guys on the team, but I don't think Wheeler is great defensively. He's very quick, but at 5'8" taller guards can easily shoot over him or post him up. And IMHO TyTy at 6'3" is a much better NBA prospect as a PG than an SG/CG, so he really should be playing more point. Wheeler might start early in the season, but once TyTy establishes himself as ready, I think he'll start at the point. Ultimately, I doubt Wheeler will play more than 20 MPG off the bench. That leaves 100 minutes to split between TyTy, Mintz, Grady, Fredrick, and Allen to play the 1, 2, and 3.



Iowa's defense was weak, but it wasn't *that* bad. They only gave up 2.5 more PPG to opponents than UK last year. They held Big-10 opponents to under 70 points ten times, including a run of 5 in a row and 7 out of 8.

Admittedly their zone was inconsistent (downright bad at times), but their man-to-man was actually pretty good. Unfortunately they had no choice but to stop playing it when Garza's only viable backup, Jack Nunge, went down with a torn ACL. They had to keep Garza out of foul trouble. And even in the zone, Garza had to play conservative D and avoid fouling.

On top of that, CJ and Conner McCaffery both played most of the season injured. Even defensive minded backup PG Joe Touissant played injured and needed foot surgery after the season. CJ also played much of the season out of shape, because what a lot of people don't realize is that they really limited his minutes in practice to avoid aggravating his plantar fasciitis.

I would argue that their eventual demise was due to injuries. CJ could barely walk in the Oregon game. Conner had double hip labrum surgery after the season. Nunge is still rehabbing his knee at Xavier.



I mostly agree with this, but they really wanted to play better defense, just struggled due to the aforementioned issues.

CJ has a tremendous work ethic, so I have no doubt that if he's healthy he'll rectify any defensive shortcomings he has. The only question is, after all the time healing and rehabbing after his surgery, how long will it take him to get back in shape and begin that process. He's also missed out on a lot of opportunity to gel with his teammates, so that could also delay his incorporation into the rotation. We'll see.

Comparing Iowa's defense to UK 2020/21 is not good. Iowa was a top 10 team, UK didn’t even qualify for the NIT.
Cal told everyone that Allen couldn’t play, because he missed assignments and wasn't a good defender, but in my opinion, he was far and away, a better defender than BJB or Askew. I've seen Allen rip the ball out of a dribblers hands and start the break on more than 1 occassion. He at least played with effort.
Allen didn’t play, because he wasn't one of Cal's favorites, I bet CJ is parked on the bench next Allen, but damn, I hope I am totally wrong on that.

 

[catsfanbgky]

First of all, I love Grady's game, and like many others I expect him to probably lead the team in scoring.

I compared last year. Don't you think last year is more pertinent than 4 years ago?

And how can you compare career numbers between a guy who's played all 4 of his college years, and is only eligible for one more because of covid, to a guy who has only played 2 years so far?

I could argue that CJ made his teammates numbers better because he drew defenders out beyond the 3-pt line, opening things up for everybody else. That doesn't show up in his stats.

My point was only to dispel the notion that CJ is just a 3-pt shooter. He's not. He's a very capable all around scorer.

I really think the 2 of them could be very effective together, much like CJ and Joe Wieskamp were very effective playing together.

I like Fredrick, I am on your side, as a matter of fact people say he is only a scorer, he is very good defensively and doesn't get near the credit he deserves. But, as in any debate, I will also counter your counter. Your second argument does not hold water either. He did not pull anybody away to create shots for others. One, he was the 3rd / 4th option on offense, meaning they did not shade toward him, he was not #1, #2, or #3 concern, the other guys was the opposing team was willing to let him beat them, 8 points per game, tells you that. And second, Garza, the CENTER stepped out and shot over 3 3s per game. So he wasn't pulling players out of the paint, Garza did so himself by being out on the 3 point line. And last, but not least, Yes I will compare a 4 year player to a 2 year, when you are trying to make a argument Fredrick is better than Grady, I countered with not even close, EVEN his freshman and Sophomore years was better than CJ's freshman and sophomore years, so that is why I listed all 4 of his years stats. CONSISTENCY, and doing it as the NUMBER ONE option and defenses game planning to stop him, even his first two years, as opposed to a guy who did not get the best defender or coaches scheming to stop him. Use any argument you want to use, CJ is not near the player Grady is. I even said, not yet, he may get there, but even if we only count Grady's first 2 years, you still do not have a argument, it is not close. Hell look at what the guru's think of them by ranking of transfers. Rivals had Grady 6th and Fredrick 34th. It is based of impact player should make.
The argument he made his teammates better ??? LOL, that 1 assist a game and less than 1 rebound a game compared to Grady's over 4 rebounds per game and 2 assist per game, you also lose. Pick another player to argue, CJ Fredrick no matter what part of the game of basketball is not better than Kellen Grady, it is not close, let that argument rest.

 

[kelzer]

I like Fredrick, I am on your side, as a matter of fact people say he is only a scorer, he is very good defensively and doesn't get near the credit he deserves. But, as in any debate, I will also counter your counter. Your second argument does not hold water either. He did not pull anybody away to create shots for others. One, he was the 3rd / 4th option on offense, meaning they did not shade toward him, he was not #1, #2, or #3 concern, the other guys was the opposing team was willing to let him beat them, 8 points per game, tells you that. And second, Garza, the CENTER stepped out and shot over 3 3s per game. So he wasn't pulling players out of the paint, Garza did so himself by being out on the 3 point line. And last, but not least, Yes I will compare a 4 year player to a 2 year, when you are trying to make a argument Fredrick is better than Grady, I countered with not even close, EVEN his freshman and Sophomore years was better than CJ's freshman and sophomore years, so that is why I listed all 4 of his years stats. CONSISTENCY, and doing it as the NUMBER ONE option and defenses game planning to stop him, even his first two years, as opposed to a guy who did not get the best defender or coaches scheming to stop him. Use any argument you want to use, CJ is not near the player Grady is. I even said, not yet, he may get there, but even if we only count Grady's first 2 years, you still do not have a argument, it is not close. Hell look at what the guru's think of them by ranking of transfers. Rivals had Grady 6th and Fredrick 34th. It is based of impact player should make.
The argument he made his teammates better ??? LOL, that 1 assist a game and less than 1 rebound a game compared to Grady's over 4 rebounds per game and 2 assist per game, you also lose. Pick another player to argue, CJ Fredrick no matter what part of the game of basketball is not better than Kellen Grady, it is not close, let that argument rest.

Not sure how you got that I said Fredrick was better than Grady. Just said last year a higher percentage of his shots were 2 pointers, which is undeniable.

I'd also disagree with your point about Fredrick drawing out defenders to open things up - Fran and opposing Big 10 coaches have all said exactly the same thing.

 

[fatguy87]

Fredrick had a TS% over 60 and committed just 10 turnovers while playing for one of the best teams last season. There’s a good chance he’s one of our 5 best players

I’d roll with Grady, Washington, and Fredrick starting in the backcourt for the first game.

 

[UK-Chulo]

Comparing Iowa's defense to UK 2020/21 is not good. Iowa was a top 10 team, UK didn’t even qualify for the NIT.
Cal told everyone that Allen couldn’t play, because he missed assignments and wasn't a good defender, but in my opinion, he was far and away, a better defender than BJB or Askew. I've seen Allen rip the ball out of a dribblers hands and start the break on more than 1 occassion. He at least played with effort.
Allen didn’t play, because he wasn't one of Cal's favorites, I bet CJ is parked on the bench next Allen, but damn, I hope I am totally wrong on that.

Allen had a few plays that were positive on defense, but he was constantly late closing out on shooters and is a bit sloth-footed. It’s a stretch to say he played with effort if it wasn’t constant effort.

 

[kyjeff1]

Allen had a few plays that were positive on defense, but he was constantly late closing out on shooters and is a bit sloth-footed. It’s a stretch to say he played with effort if it wasn’t constant effort.

Okay, but what would you call the defensive abilities snd effirt that Boston and Askew played?
I'll say that Askew at least tried to play hard, but Boston didn’t give a sh*t.

 

[UK-Chulo]

Okay, but what would you call the defensive abilities snd effirt that Boston and Askew played?
I'll say that Askew at least tried to play hard, but Boston didn’t give a sh*t.

100% agree on both. Askew tried with what he had. Boston was a waste.

 

[kelzer]

One other thing to keep in mind is Cal plays favorites, will CJ make the cut?

Tonight I heard through the grapevine that CJ is one of Cal's favorites. So I guess he makes the cut.

 

[kyjeff1]

Tonight I heard through the grapevine that CJ is one of Cal's favorites. So I guess he makes the cut.

Fire your source

 

[kelzer]

Fire your source

Based on what?

 

[Colonial Farm 80]

Under the radar assassin?

Grady is a better overall athlete than Frederick but Frederick played against better competition at Iowa. Grady can score from anywhere on the floor but will have to prove himself defensively against SEC wings. If he can defend, Grady will have a chance to be all conference. Frederick is a better deep shooter but not as athletic and dangerous at midrange as Grady. Frederick will probably struggle defensively in the SEC and will probably not start because of that.

 

[BlueVelvetFog]

 

[Pygmy Sasquatch]

I got the munchkins Fred

 

[revcort]

Comparing Iowa's defense to UK 2020/21 is not good. Iowa was a top 10 team, UK didn’t even qualify for the NIT.
Cal told everyone that Allen couldn’t play, because he missed assignments and wasn't a good defender, but in my opinion, he was far and away, a better defender than BJB or Askew. I've seen Allen rip the ball out of a dribblers hands and start the break on more than 1 occassion. He at least played with effort.
Allen didn’t play, because he wasn't one of Cal's favorites, I bet CJ is parked on the bench next Allen, but damn, I hope I am totally wrong on that.

I've seen you post this same thing in multiple threads. It's pretty ridiculous in my view.
#1 Allen really WASN'T a good all-around player last season. He was a spot-up shooter, period. He couldn't handle the ball. He didn't move well without the ball. He got lost on defense. He didn't move his feet on defense. He was NOT a better defender than BJB (who led the team in steals) or Askew, and it's not close. He got hot against Miss St and in another game or two. In multiple other games, he looked lost. He stated multiple times himself that he needed to improve his all-around game and become a better player- and he came back, so it wasn't just talk.

#2 You are automatically putting CJ in the same category with Allen because both are Kentucky players, but that is a mistake. The reason you do that is because you believe the same false narrative of others that Calipari doesn't give the home state players a chance and wants them to fail, which is nonsense. CJ will have opportunities this season and so will Allen. If they perform, they will play. Cal doesn't have these 2 in the same group in his head (of players who played high school ball in the state of Kentucky and, therefore, don't deserve any real chance). They will rise and fall on their performance on the court.

#3 Kentucky fans can't even see the truth regarding Kentucky players on the team. Every UK fan wants to see home state kids excel. I'm one of those also. I loved watching Darius Miller develop over his time at UK and become a truly elite college player- and an NBA player as well. I guess Miller's playing time and development must have happened prior to Calipari's development of a hatred toward anyone who played ball in the state of Kentucky, eh? (sarcasm) Kentucky fans are the least unbiased people on the planet when it comes to home state, home grown players. We only see their positives and we are blind to their flaws.

 

[kyjeff1]

I've seen you post this same thing in multiple threads. It's pretty ridiculous in my view.
#1 Allen really WASN'T a good all-around player last season. He was a spot-up shooter, period. He couldn't handle the ball. He didn't move well without the ball. He got lost on defense. He didn't move his feet on defense. He was NOT a better defender than BJB (who led the team in steals) or Askew, and it's not close. He got hot against Miss St and in another game or two. In multiple other games, he looked lost. He stated multiple times himself that he needed to improve his all-around game and become a better player- and he came back, so it wasn't just talk.

#2 You are automatically putting CJ in the same category with Allen because both are Kentucky players, but that is a mistake. The reason you do that is because you believe the same false narrative of others that Calipari doesn't give the home state players a chance and wants them to fail, which is nonsense. CJ will have opportunities this season and so will Allen. If they perform, they will play. Cal doesn't have these 2 in the same group in his head (of players who played high school ball in the state of Kentucky and, therefore, don't deserve any real chance). They will rise and fall on their performance on the court.

#3 Kentucky fans can't even see the truth regarding Kentucky players on the team. Every UK fan wants to see home state kids excel. I'm one of those also. I loved watching Darius Miller develop over his time at UK and become a truly elite college player- and an NBA player as well. I guess Miller's playing time and development must have happened prior to Calipari's development of a hatred toward anyone who played ball in the state of Kentucky, eh? (sarcasm) Kentucky fans are the least unbiased people on the planet when it comes to home state, home grown players. We only see their positives and we are blind to their flaws.

Lots of false assumptions here.

Can you find a single post of mine that would lead you to believe that I give a rip about where a UK player is from? Please find it. In fact, I totally forgot that CJ is from UK. I honestly don't care where he is from, I'm basing my takes on his frame, his athletesism and the simple fact that he played for Fran at Iowa and defense is not a thing out there.

Your take on comparing Allen to Askew and BJB is nothing short of laughable. You’re smarter than this. How many minutes did Allen play per game? How many minutes did the other two get?

Did Allen literally COST UK wins? I saw him take over games, but I also saw BJB single handedly cost UK games with his selfish play and laziness on defense. Yet he and Askew were allowed to play through their mistakes ALL SEASON and never really got better. Allen got yanked out of the game if he freaking breathed the wrong way. Same thing happened to Baker and Juzang too.

You cannot deny that Allen got totally mistreated last year and his performances against MSU were more impressive than anything BJB or Askew did all season and the latter two players were getting over 30 minutes per game, which should have made them much better players.

Now, as far as what Allen can and can't do on a basketball court, you are so wrong it's shocking. Kid scored like 50ppg in high school, you don't accomplish that… .at any level, without being a multi level scorer, you damn sure won't score 50ppg if you can’t dribble.

Take a gander at this clip and tell me again how Allen can’t handle the ball and is ONLY a spot up shooter. No, what was happening was the kid wanted to stay on the court, but Cal had him incredibly scared to do anything. BJB was allowed to do whatever he wanted, Allen didn’t have that same luxury. Watch the clip.

Facebook Watch

 

[revcort]

Lots of false assumptions here.

Can you find a single post of mine that would lead you to believe that I give a rip about where a UK player is from? Please find it. In fact, I totally forgot that CJ is from UK. I honestly don't care where he is from, I'm basing my takes on his frame, his athletesism and the simple fact that he played for Fran at Iowa and defense is not a thing out there.

Your take on comparing Allen to Askew and BJB is nothing short of laughable. You’re smarter than this. How many minutes did Allen play per game? How many minutes did the other two get?

Did Allen literally COST UK wins? I saw him take over games, but I also saw BJB single handedly cost UK games with his selfish play and laziness on defense. Yet he and Askew were allowed to play through their mistakes ALL SEASON and never really got better. Allen got yanked out of the game if he freaking breathed the wrong way. Same thing happened to Baker and Juzang too.

You cannot deny that Allen got totally mistreated last year and his performances against MSU were more impressive than anything BJB or Askew did all season and the latter two players were getting over 30 minutes per game, which should have made them much better players.

Now, as far as what Allen can and can't do on a basketball court, you are so wrong it's shocking. Kid scored like 50ppg in high school, you don't accomplish that… .at any level, without being a multi level scorer, you damn sure won't score 50ppg if you can’t dribble.

Take a gander at this clip and tell me again how Allen can’t handle the ball and is ONLY a spot up shooter. No, what was happening was the kid wanted to stay on the court, but Cal had him incredibly scared to do anything. BJB was allowed to do whatever he wanted, Allen didn’t have that same luxury. Watch the clip.

Facebook Watch

Well, first of all, Allen traveled in the clip- glad it wasn't called. Watch the clip.

Your post is illustrative of the very thing I mentioned above. You can't even see Allen's flaws but you sure can see the flaws of the guys who you believe took his minutes. You can't see his flaws and you can't see their strengths. Thanks for making my point so clearly.

I'm a huge fan of Allen by the way. I hope he takes Kentucky and the college basketball world by storm this season. I hope he has worked on his ball handling, his passing, his defense, and his understanding of where to be on the floor. If he has become something beyond a spot-up shooter, he could be one of the best players in the SEC. And as for CJ, he's much more than just an unathletic white dude who can shoot. He can play defense and was considered one of the top open court defenders on that team. He also has a solid mid-range game and can finish well, so he can score on all 3 levels. He's a more complete player than Allen, at least the Allen we saw last season. He will likely take minutes from Allen if he's as good as I think he is. He even does what Allen does even better- he's a much more consistent shooter than Allen, who can be streaky.

As for how Cal hates certain players and loves others, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I know this, there were times I wanted Cal to pull him out of the game last season, because he was hurting the team. There were times I wanted Cal to put him in, usually when nobody could hit a shot and I knew we desperately needed points. Every coach has players every season who start and get the majority of the minutes. They also have guys who play in spots or when there is an advantage of some sort. Allen fit that bill last season. When the spot players screw up, the starter usually returns. The starters usually get more leash. But to believe Cal has something personal against Allen is a bridge way too far for me. Who does it help for Cal to hold back Allen? What advantage does it give Calipari for Allen to fail or for the team to fail?

 

[kyjeff1]

Well, first of all, Allen traveled in the clip- glad it wasn't called. Watch the clip.

Your post is illustrative of the very thing I mentioned above. You can't even see Allen's flaws but you sure can see the flaws of the guys who you believe took his minutes. You can't see his flaws and you can't see their strengths. Thanks for making my point so clearly.

I'm a huge fan of Allen by the way. I hope he takes Kentucky and the college basketball world by storm this season. I hope he has worked on his ball handling, his passing, his defense, and his understanding of where to be on the floor. If he has become something beyond a spot-up shooter, he could be one of the best players in the SEC. And as for CJ, he's much more than just an unathletic white dude who can shoot. He can play defense and was considered one of the top open court defenders on that team. He also has a solid mid-range game and can finish well, so he can score on all 3 levels. He's a more complete player than Allen, at least the Allen we saw last season. He will likely take minutes from Allen if he's as good as I think he is. He even does what Allen does even better- he's a much more consistent shooter than Allen, who can be streaky.

As for how Cal hates certain players and loves others, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I know this, there were times I wanted Cal to pull him out of the game last season, because he was hurting the team. There were times I wanted Cal to put him in, usually when nobody could hit a shot and I knew we desperately needed points. Every coach has players every season who start and get the majority of the minutes. They also have guys who play in spots or when there is an advantage of some sort. Allen fit that bill last season. When the spot players screw up, the starter usually returns. The starters usually get more leash. But to believe Cal has something personal against Allen is a bridge way too far for me. Who does it help for Cal to hold back Allen? What advantage does it give Calipari for Allen to fail or for the team to fail?

I see Allen's flaws, I never said he didn’t have flaws, but if you played the game at any level, you know you improve at a much faster rate during game action. Practice doesn’t do what games do for you. Allen, Baker, Juzang and many others, were never allowed to play through their mistakes. I would much rather roll with the guy that misses a defensive assignment here and there, than go with a pg that picks up his dribble every 10', or a guy that just jacks up the ball as soon as he feels leather.

Go watch the first 6 games of the season last year, Boston shredded any chance UK had at winning 5 of those games, I don't recall Allen doing that. BJB was allowed to keep playing, Allen was not. BJB was no better in March than he was in October, so in my opinion, I'd rather go with the dude that actually cares to see UK win instead of playing for his NBA stock.

As far as CJ, I hope you're right, I just don't think you are. I think he's much closer to a Kyle Wiltjer than a Deandre Liggins on the defensive end and he's also very injury prone. He looks like he's never touched a barbell in his life and who's minutes will he be taking? Who is he better than?


Cal talks about a 4 out offense, but that's going in the trash can in the first game. You have way too many legit 4's to go with a 4 guard offense, so that means Tyty, Wheeler, Grady and Mintz will get most of the game minutes at the 1, 2 and 3, CJ will he parked next to Allen.

Again, Iowa, under Fran, doesn't know what defense is, especially when compared to what Cal runs. You'll see and when you do, I don't expect you to come back and tell me I was right, but you should.

 

[Padsfs07]

Fredrick had a TS% over 60 and committed just 10 turnovers while playing for one of the best teams last season. There’s a good chance he’s one of our 5 best players

I’d roll with Grady, Washington, and Fredrick starting in the backcourt for the first game.

I don't know how Calipari is going to allocate time with Wheeler and Mintz likely expecting starters' minutes as well.

 

[kelzer]

I don't know how Calipari is going to allocate time with Wheeler and Mintz likely expecting starters' minutes as well.

If Cal sticks to his plan that he mentioned a while back of pressing all game, guys will probably be happy to come out to catch their breath.

 

[fatguy87]

Cal is under no obligation to play any player X amount of minutes. He should play the best players the most minutes to maximize win probability.

 

[revcort]

I see Allen's flaws, I never said he didn’t have flaws, but if you played the game at any level, you know you improve at a much faster rate during game action. Practice doesn’t do what games do for you. Allen, Baker, Juzang and many others, were never allowed to play through their mistakes. I would much rather roll with the guy that misses a defensive assignment here and there, than go with a pg that picks up his dribble every 10', or a guy that just jacks up the ball as soon as he feels leather.

Go watch the first 6 games of the season last year, Boston shredded any chance UK had at winning 5 of those games, I don't recall Allen doing that. BJB was allowed to keep playing, Allen was not. BJB was no better in March than he was in October, so in my opinion, I'd rather go with the dude that actually cares to see UK win instead of playing for his NBA stock.

As far as CJ, I hope you're right, I just don't think you are. I think he's much closer to a Kyle Wiltjer than a Deandre Liggins on the defensive end and he's also very injury prone. He looks like he's never touched a barbell in his life and who's minutes will he be taking? Who is he better than?


Cal talks about a 4 out offense, but that's going in the trash can in the first game. You have way too many legit 4's to go with a 4 guard offense, so that means Tyty, Wheeler, Grady and Mintz will get most of the game minutes at the 1, 2 and 3, CJ will he parked next to Allen.

Again, Iowa, under Fran, doesn't know what defense is, especially when compared to what Cal runs. You'll see and when you do, I don't expect you to come back and tell me I was right, but you should.

Jeff, I think you're just down on Calipari and you're afraid if he plays CJ that it will disprove the notion that he hates Kentucky kids and doesn't give them a chance. I guess the other option is that you haven't seen CJ play. Here are some of his highlights- and these are from 2019-20...


These are from 2020-21...


Watch those highlights. He's more than a spot-up shooter. He's not unathletic. You may see a slow, white kid who can only shoot. If you only look at his physical appearance, you would likely underestimate him and assume he's a bench-warmer. Actually, what I see is a guy who can score on all 3 levels, has a great understanding the game, is excellent coming off screens, has the ability to take his man off the dribble, has a floater and a pull up jumper, has a mid-range jumper, can make the 3 with great accuracy, can spot up for threes or rhythm dribble into threes, knows how to use his body to make shots in one on one situations, can make a good entry pass, is accurate at throwing a lob, has a nose for rebounds, is unselfish and makes his teammates better. I see a guy who is a much more polished and well-rounded player than Allen. I would have preferred CJ to any guard we had on the team last season.

He will get minutes this season, there is no question. You can't keep a guy who can do as much as this kid, and do it well, on the bench. It is ridiculous to think he will sit the bench. He may even start.

 

[revcort]

I like Fredrick, I am on your side, as a matter of fact people say he is only a scorer, he is very good defensively and doesn't get near the credit he deserves. But, as in any debate, I will also counter your counter. Your second argument does not hold water either. He did not pull anybody away to create shots for others. One, he was the 3rd / 4th option on offense, meaning they did not shade toward him, he was not #1, #2, or #3 concern, the other guys was the opposing team was willing to let him beat them, 8 points per game, tells you that. And second, Garza, the CENTER stepped out and shot over 3 3s per game. So he wasn't pulling players out of the paint, Garza did so himself by being out on the 3 point line. And last, but not least, Yes I will compare a 4 year player to a 2 year, when you are trying to make a argument Fredrick is better than Grady, I countered with not even close, EVEN his freshman and Sophomore years was better than CJ's freshman and sophomore years, so that is why I listed all 4 of his years stats. CONSISTENCY, and doing it as the NUMBER ONE option and defenses game planning to stop him, even his first two years, as opposed to a guy who did not get the best defender or coaches scheming to stop him. Use any argument you want to use, CJ is not near the player Grady is. I even said, not yet, he may get there, but even if we only count Grady's first 2 years, you still do not have a argument, it is not close. Hell look at what the guru's think of them by ranking of transfers. Rivals had Grady 6th and Fredrick 34th. It is based of impact player should make.
The argument he made his teammates better ??? LOL, that 1 assist a game and less than 1 rebound a game compared to Grady's over 4 rebounds per game and 2 assist per game, you also lose. Pick another player to argue, CJ Fredrick no matter what part of the game of basketball is not better than Kellen Grady, it is not close, let that argument rest.

This is a good back and forth between you guys- much more enjoyable than having to argue about who will ride the bench all season because our coach is an idiot... but I digress.

I do love CJ Fredrick's game. He can score in a bunch of different ways and is a better scorer than anyone we had on the team last season. If he had played for UK last year, he would have been our leading scorer, hands down. Our biggest problem last season was simply not being able to put the ball in the basket. CJ can do that, and do it well.

But when you're comparing CJ to Grady, I have to give the edge to Grady, if only slightly. As I weigh them, at least what I have seen of them, in my mind, I see Grady as a guy who could be a lead guard and is great with the ball in his hands. Fredrick is better off the ball and isn't quite as quick and athletic. I give the edge to Fredrick in pure shooting but I would give the edge in ability to score with the ball in his hands to Grady. By the way, both of these guys are clutch scorers. Iowa often drew up plays for Fredrick in late clock situations and he delivered. And we all know Grady is a guy who thrives in late game situations when his team needs a basket.

My bottom line is that I think these guys both bring a lot to the table when it comes to putting points on the board. Both guys are shot makers. I think they will work together well. It will be hard to keep either of them on the bench for very long.

 

[kyjeff1]

Jeff, I think you're just down on Calipari and you're afraid if he plays CJ that it will disprove the notion that he hates Kentucky kids and doesn't give them a chance. I guess the other option is that you haven't seen CJ play. Here are some of his highlights- and these are from 2019-20...


These are from 2020-21...


Watch those highlights. He's more than a spot-up shooter. He's not unathletic. You may see a slow, white kid who can only shoot. If you only look at his physical appearance, you would likely underestimate him and assume he's a bench-warmer. Actually, what I see is a guy who can score on all 3 levels, has a great understanding the game, is excellent coming off screens, has the ability to take his man off the dribble, has a floater and a pull up jumper, has a mid-range jumper, can make the 3 with great accuracy, can spot up for threes or rhythm dribble into threes, knows how to use his body to make shots in one on one situations, can make a good entry pass, is accurate at throwing a lob, has a nose for rebounds, is unselfish and makes his teammates better. I see a guy who is a much more polished and well-rounded player than Allen. I would have preferred CJ to any guard we had on the team last season.

He will get minutes this season, there is no question. You can't keep a guy who can do as much as this kid, and do it well, on the bench. It is ridiculous to think he will sit the bench. He may even start.

Again, I don't care one iota about the "Kentucky kid" thing, I was born and raised in New Jersey for crying out loud.

But I've asked you this question and I don't think you have answered it: who's minutes would CJ take? If we're not going to platoon, you have to assume that Tyty, Grady, Wheeler and Davion Mintz will get the bulk of the guard minutes, THEN, you have Oscar, Brooks, Collins, Toppin and Bryce Hopkins to find playing time for.

Cal says he's going to play 4 out/1 in, but I call BS and I say that because of what we have heard with regards to Hopkins and Brooks. We know Oscar is the anchor, but how do you keep Bryce, Toppin and Brooks on the bench? If he does that, good luck recruiting future 4's and 5's. If the platoon somehow hurt recruiting, benching your 4's and 5's certainly will.

So I ask again, where are CJ's minutes coming from? Is he better than any of our other guards?

As far as my feelings toward Cal, when he does his job, I'm one of the first to call it out and give him props, but when he plays favorites, puts the NBA draft in front of UK, sticks with a severely outdated offense, drops the ball and costs the team a game by making bad in-game decisions or shows a stubbornness that creates problems for UKBB (Nike, referees etc… ), I'm going to call that out. It’s called being real and calling a spade a spade.

 

[kyjeff1]

CJ Fredrick is veing severely overrated here, he is not just "slightly" behind Grady and you might as well throw out what he did at Iowa, UK, under Cal, is a completely different animal than Iowa.
I have seen nothing from CJ that makes me believe he's going to thrive under Cal and that's not a knock on Cal, it's just the way it is.
Grady was a top 10 ranked transfer, CJ was rated in the 30's, he is not who some think he is.
CJ is a great, not good, a great shooter, but he is going to need to be exceptional at every aspect of the game, because the dudes in front of him are.

 

[catsfanbgky]

This is a good back and forth between you guys- much more enjoyable than having to argue about who will ride the bench all season because our coach is an idiot... but I digress.

I do love CJ Fredrick's game. He can score in a bunch of different ways and is a better scorer than anyone we had on the team last season. If he had played for UK last year, he would have been our leading scorer, hands down. Our biggest problem last season was simply not being able to put the ball in the basket. CJ can do that, and do it well.

But when you're comparing CJ to Grady, I have to give the edge to Grady, if only slightly. As I weigh them, at least what I have seen of them, in my mind, I see Grady as a guy who could be a lead guard and is great with the ball in his hands. Fredrick is better off the ball and isn't quite as quick and athletic. I give the edge to Fredrick in pure shooting but I would give the edge in ability to score with the ball in his hands to Grady. By the way, both of these guys are clutch scorers. Iowa often drew up plays for Fredrick in late clock situations and he delivered. And we all know Grady is a guy who thrives in late game situations when his team needs a basket.

My bottom line is that I think these guys both bring a lot to the table when it comes to putting points on the board. Both guys are shot makers. I think they will work together well. It will be hard to keep either of them on the bench for very long.

Exactly and thanks for the compliment. You actually can debate topics and not have to resort to the name calling stuff. SOMETIMES when debating, I will get a little too intense when presenting my argument, but I do not like the name calling and pissing matches, it never goes anywhere. That was one of my points I was trying to relay, I like Fredrick and think he will be a very player sooner rather than later, but he is just not in Grady's league yet, not fair to Fredrick trying to compare them. I mean Grady has been a 18PPG player for 4 years, and as the #1 option defenses to key on where as Fredrick was not the key focal point to stop, more around 3rd or 4th. Grady had a lot more responsibilities and had to really work and often against double teams to get his shots.

 

[kelzer]

CJ's career high is 23 in an overtime loss to Minnesota on Christmas Day of 2020. He didn't really have his best game. He missed a few free throws late in regulation, though I wouldn't say he choked, as Iowa seemed to have the game under control at the time. They were up by 5 with 37 seconds to play. CJ got fouled and hit the first, putting them up by 6, but missed the 2nd.

He also seemed to force a couple of layups and missed them badly, though in both cases it looked like there might have been a lot of contact. Typical Big-10 play - no blood, no foul.

But one of the high points of his game was his man-to-man defense against Marcus Carr. I'd estimate he covered him for about 10 of the 45 minutes of the game. Carr's only points in that time came on a fast break where CJ had to stop ball and Carr trailed the play, was passed the ball, and hit a 3. Nobody picked him up.

I don't even think Carr scored when CJ was on him in the zone, though CJ was late to close out on a couple of the other guys who hit several 3's (possibly because he was too focused on Carr).

Carr finished with 30. His season average was 19.4. Around here guys were drooling over him when he entered the portal.

This game was before CJ's foot injury. Anyone judging his defense based on seeing him in Iowa's weak zone while playing injured simply hasn't seen what he can do. He's not the best defender in college basketball, but I'd say he's at least as good defensively as Mintz or Grady.

 

[BlueVelvetFog]

I work in Polk County and if Grady hasn’t said that, he at least has thought it. Lol

I wonder if Sheriff Judd wants to tackle all the misdeeds in neighboring Hillsborough Co.
Honestly, I don’t think you’d see him giving his pressers like you see on ABCActionNews. He could help clean up Nebraska Avenue, Robles Park and College Hills

 

[akaukswoosh]

But when you're comparing CJ to Grady, I have to give the edge to Grady, if only slightly. As I weigh them, at least what I have seen of them, in my mind, I see Grady as a guy who could be a lead guard and is great with the ball in his hands. Fredrick is better off the ball and isn't quite as quick and athletic. I give the edge to Fredrick in pure shooting but I would give the edge in ability to score with the ball in his hands to Grady. By the way, both of these guys are clutch scorers. Iowa often drew up plays for Fredrick in late clock situations and he delivered. And we all know Grady is a guy who thrives in late game situations when his team needs a basket.

Grady also just turned 24. He's not only experienced. He's old and wise.