Geo and Caleb - 2 Point shooting

[PSAL_Hoops]

A couple missed fast break lay ups. One Caleb was clearly fouled on but still should’ve finished. Oh well. We can’t really plan adjustments to prevent missing the bunnies. It happens.

But Caleb was 2-3 on two point jumpers. Yet he didn’t even attempt one until the second half?? That’s the shot he should be looking for.

Geo was 4-5 on them.

Both of them can create space. They hit the fade away at a decent clip. The point is we shouldn’t have that bad of a halfcourt offense. With the starters in. With the bigs in foul trouble, those are the shots we should be looking for with PM on the kick out to keep them honest. Make some shots and things open for RHJ.

 

[RUsojo]

Caleb is worst on the team in effective field goal percentage.

Geo is 5th. In addition, Ron is 1 for his last 21 3pt attempts and still shooting 3s at a better clip than Geo.

We actually need those two to shoot less and Paul and Young to shoot more.

 

[RUsojo]

This is a great case study in Pike not valuing offense and Pike extending a longer leash to those players who are least offensively efficient.

Somehow our two worst 3pt shooters on the team, Geo and McConnell, were allowed to chuck 13 attempts (going 2-13) yet lead the team in minutes played.

Our best three point shooters, Young Paul Mathis, played a lot less minutes (Paul got 28, tied 2nd, but as I mentioned, we need him to shoot more) and only took 9 attempts (going 3-9).

It’s not as simple as we’re a bad shooting team it’s we are playing bad shooters more minutes and the bad shooters are taking more shots and there is no interest from the coaching staff to make changes that can improve the offense.

 

[YoucancallmeRay]

A three point shooting statistic should never be the sole factor for number of minutes played. You can't really mean that, right?

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

This is a great case study in Pike not valuing offense and Pike extending a longer leash to those players who are least offensively efficient.

Somehow our two worst 3pt shooters on the team, Geo and McConnell, were allowed to chuck 13 attempts (going 2-13) yet lead the team in minutes played.

Our best three point shooters, Young Paul Mathis, played a lot less minutes (Paul got 28, tied 2nd, but as I mentioned, we need him to shoot more) and only took 9 attempts (going 3-9).

It’s not as simple as we’re a bad shooting team it’s we are playing bad shooters more minutes and the bad shooters are taking more shots and there is no interest from the coaching staff to make changes that can improve the offense.

There is the actual flow of the game that dictates shot attempts, nothing more or less....less than 10 seconds on the shot clock, you don't have a choice on who actually shoots the ball.....I honestly have no idea if you watch the games or just look at stats. There are only 30 seconds per possession, how can anyone coach within the flow of the drives, defense being played that someone should or shouldn't shoot??

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Caleb is worst on the team in effective field goal percentage.

Geo is 5th. In addition, Ron is 1 for his last 21 3pt attempts and still shooting 3s at a better clip than Geo.

We actually need those two to shoot less and Paul and Young to shoot more.

Your taking the statistics in aggregate in a vacuum to make a point. We’re talking about figuring out a way for the starting five to find halfcourt offense with the BiGs in foul trouble and RHJ forcing things.

PM is not comfortable becoming a high volume shooter. Running offensive sets designed to feed him is not a realistic option right now. He’s a dynamic passer who takes what comes to him when he’s wide open. Passing is his strength though and trying to change that would be a big mistake.

The point is, it’s not like Baker and Caleb don’t have shots that they make at a much higher percentage than the ones they’ve been taking.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

This is a great case study in Pike not valuing offense and Pike extending a longer leash to those players who are least offensively efficient.

Somehow our two worst 3pt shooters on the team, Geo and McConnell, were allowed to chuck 13 attempts (going 2-13) yet lead the team in minutes played.

Our best three point shooters, Young Paul Mathis, played a lot less minutes (Paul got 28, tied 2nd, but as I mentioned, we need him to shoot more) and only took 9 attempts (going 3-9).

It’s not as simple as we’re a bad shooting team it’s we are playing bad shooters more minutes and the bad shooters are taking more shots and there is no interest from the coaching staff to make changes that can improve the offense.

Also - if you think the halfcourt offense has been flowing better with Tez and JY playing I don’t know what else to say to you. These guys are good fast break players who haven’t been finishing lay ups of late and at the same clip they did early on. When they start finishing again in transition they will earn more minutes. They both force things in the halfcourt offense and commit a lot of turnovers. There is a reason we turned things around with the new line up.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

There is the actual flow of the game that dictates shot attempts, nothing more or less....less than 10 seconds on the shot clock, you don't have a choice on who actually shoots the ball.....I honestly have no idea if you watch the games or just look at stats. There are only 30 seconds per possession, how can anyone coach within the flow of the drives, defense being played that someone should or shouldn't shoot??

Great point Hawk. I couldn’t have said it better. The question is, what adjustments can be made so that the rotations involve some ball movement with the guards getting the ball inside the perimeter later in the shot clock? This doesn’t seem like it would be that big an adjustment. This was the first game with early BIG foul trouble since we switched line ups.

 

[RUsojo]

A three point shooting statistic should never be the sole factor for number of minutes played. You can't really mean that, right?

surely you understood the overall point being out best shooters are not playing nor shooting as much as our worst shooters. That’s the point. That’s it.

 

[RUsojo]

There is the actual flow of the game that dictates shot attempts, nothing more or less....less than 10 seconds on the shot clock, you don't have a choice on who actually shoots the ball.....I honestly have no idea if you watch the games or just look at stats. There are only 30 seconds per possession, how can anyone coach within the flow of the drives, defense being played that someone should or shouldn't shoot??

You stumbled into the justification of playing faster to get better shots early in the shot clock.

We play slow, inefficient in the half court, and then there’s a higher chance we get a bad shot off. Of course the offense is likely to struggle when we have worse shooters on the floor more of the time and when we are playing slow on purpose. Ding ding

 

[RUsojo]

Your taking the statistics in aggregate in a vacuum to make a point. We’re talking about figuring out a way for the starting five to find halfcourt offense with the BiGs in foul trouble and RHJ forcing things.

PM is not comfortable becoming a high volume shooter. Running offensive sets designed to feed him is not a realistic option right now. He’s a dynamic passer who takes what comes to him when he’s wide open. Passing is his strength though and trying to change that would be a big mistake.

The point is, it’s not like Baker and Caleb don’t have shots that they make at a much higher percentage than the ones they’ve been taking.

Yea your point that Geo and McConnells most effective shot attempt is the least efficient shot in basketball is duly noted.

To expand on the statistics I presented - what your talking about, finding ways this starting five can be more efficient - is a fools errand. This is the ceiling offensively from the starting five currently (the last five games). And it’s the ceiling because they are overall inefficient shooters or efficient low volume shooters who have no way to increase the volume with the current lineup.

 

[RUsojo]

Also - if you think the halfcourt offense has been flowing better with Tez and JY playing I don’t know what else to say to you. These guys are good fast break players who haven’t been finishing lay ups of late and at the same clip they did early on. When they start finishing again in transition they will earn more minutes. They both force things in the halfcourt offense and commit a lot of turnovers. There is a reason we turned things around with the new line up.

The reason the new lineup has done well is primarily the level of competition and Geo finding some level of scoring to offset his defense. And offensive contributions from the bench. JY leads the team in assists let’s not act like he can’t play in the half court and let’s not act like the half court offense is efficient to begin with.
This isn’t all about JY anyway.

But I would like to see JY Paul Mathis Ron Myles, and Geo and McConnel to get Young and Mathis respective minutes the last five games, and I think you would see scoring improve and defense wouldn’t lose a beat. And RHJ would come alive offensively.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

surely you understood the overall point being out best shooters are not playing nor shooting as much as our worst shooters. That’s the point. That’s it.

You can’t compare Geo’s 3 point attempts with Paul’s. I am not saying Geo doesn’t need to up his % made.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

There is the actual flow of the game that dictates shot attempts, nothing more or less....less than 10 seconds on the shot clock, you don't have a choice on who actually shoots the ball.....I honestly have no idea if you watch the games or just look at stats. There are only 30 seconds per possession, how can anyone coach within the flow of the drives, defense being played that someone should or shouldn't shoot??

This may come off harsh but its more of a compliment to @RUsojo than it is to chastise you but sojo knows his ****. One of the most knowledge bball guys on this board imo

 

[zebnatto]

Also - if you think the halfcourt offense has been flowing better with Tez and JY playing I don’t know what else to say to you. These guys are good fast break players who haven’t been finishing lay ups of late and at the same clip they did early on. When they start finishing again in transition they will earn more minutes. They both force things in the halfcourt offense and commit a lot of turnovers. There is a reason we turned things around with the new line up.

I'd be even tougher on Montez. I don't think he's a good fast break player. He should be treated like a forward who gets the ball to a guard and runs the wing.

 

[richthedentist]

Great point Hawk. I couldn’t have said it better. The question is, what adjustments can be made so that the rotations involve some ball movement with the guards getting the ball inside the perimeter later in the shot clock? This doesn’t seem like it would be that big an adjustment. This was the first game with early BIG foul trouble since we switched line ups.

And only having Myles in for 12 minutes the whole game gives you absolutely no low post presence to thrown the ball in so the offense will have a very tough team and hence we end up throwing up a lot of 3 pointers

 

[goru7]

A couple missed fast break lay ups. One Caleb was clearly fouled on but still should’ve finished. Oh well. We can’t really plan adjustments to prevent missing the bunnies. It happens.

But Caleb was 2-3 on two point jumpers. Yet he didn’t even attempt one until the second half?? That’s the shot he should be looking for.

Geo was 4-5 on them.

Both of them can create space. They hit the fade away at a decent clip. The point is we shouldn’t have that bad of a halfcourt offense. With the starters in. With the bigs in foul trouble, those are the shots we should be looking for with PM on the kick out to keep them honest. Make some shots and things open for RHJ.

As I have mentioned in 2 other threads. Geo and you have added Caleb should be shooting more 2 pointers. Both of them with their height advantage should and have hit their 13-16 foot mid range jumpers and Geo should be shooting 15 a game. He makes 6-8 that is 12-16 points. Throw in a 3 or 2 of them then add in drives to the tin, and the foul shots he should be getting from them as he is overplayed to stop his mid range and that gets him to 20 a night without breaking a sweat. Caleb also should be using his size and doing the same thing. Play for the mismatch. Sojo’s argument assumes the team ‘s three point shooting is good and not gotten worse. It has gotten worse, Ron , Montez, and Geo have gotten worse from 3 as the year has gone along. But instead of clanking from 3, making as we have a good deal of the time 50 % from 2 , stops scoring droughts and let’s us expand leads we build up and doesn’t allow us to go down 10. The overall shooting problem and the hesitancy issue has also made the shooting worse. If we have a good open shot 10 seconds into the shot clock let it fly . Teams have taken us out of transition and we have done our best missing layups or not finishing in transition to negate the early season success.

 

[YoucancallmeRay]

surely you understood the overall point being out best shooters are not playing nor shooting as much as our worst shooters. That’s the point. That’s it.

Your point was that Pike is not coaching correctly because of three point shooting percentages. Caleb and Geo deserve more PT than JY and Mathis. They provide more overall value to the team at this point. That's why coach changed the line-up and give Geo and Caleb more PT. And if Caleb and Geo have open threes within the offense, I'd still tell them to take it. And I'd also tell JY and Mathis to take open threes as well.

 

[RUsojo]

Your point was that Pike is not coaching correctly because of three point shooting percentages. Caleb and Geo deserve more PT than JY and Mathis. They provide more overall value to the team at this point. That's why coach changed the line-up and give Geo and Caleb more PT. And if Caleb and Geo have open threes within the offense, I'd still tell them to take it. And I'd also tell JY and Mathis to take open threes as well.

no. No no no ugh

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

This has gone on a complete tangent.

The only point I was making is that when our bigs couldn’t be aggressive in the Iowa game, it threw off the half court game plan of going inside. We didn’t have an adjustment plan which resulted in many late shot clock, forced 3 pointers. This was the case no matter who was in the game. The bench guys this thread has somehow morphed into an increased PT campaign for (Tez and JY) were a combined 0-5 from 3 point range until what was essentially garbage time (JY finally hit one down 13 at the 2:49 mark when Iowa defense had relaxed).

This post was intended to be about looking for Pike adjustments to be more prepared in the future with better late shot clock decisions should MJ pick up early fouls this way again. It doesn’t matter if other shots are statistically higher percentage overall in a vacuum - if you don’t have a lane to penetrate, driving into traffic with 5 seconds left on the shot clock to attempt a contested lay up is one of the least efficient decisions possible.

Our current starters, Caleb and Geo happen to hit jump shots at a reasonably high clip for that category shot - even contested ones. Deep in a shot clock, with them in the game, these shots figure to be a better statistical decision deep in the shot clock of a half court set with MJ on the bench, and RHJ the only offensive interior threat for the defense to focus on. If you’d like - feel free to start another thread about playing Tez and JY more. It’s not really relevant to this topic.

 

[RUBlackout]

It’s my fault

I didn’t add to the prediction thread for the first time since they went on their 4 game winning streak.

 

[Knight Ed_rivals]

Geo has been a poor three point shooter for years but his followers just refuse to see it. It's just always excuses for the years of bad shooting. It's always because he is hurt every year or the one forced totmake a tough shot. Maybe, just maybe, after all these years he's not a good three point shooter?

 

[goru7]

Geo has been a poor three point shooter for years but his followers just refuse to see it. It's just always excuses for the years of bad shooting. It's always because he is hurt every year or the one forced totmake a tough shot. Maybe, just maybe, after all these years he's not a good three point shooter?

Even if your point is true, that is not what the Op was saying and not how Rutgers will win more games. Geo for sure and you can add Caleb , are really good mid range shooters, like 13-16 foot shots and in my opinion should be shooting more. Geo should be more selfish and shoot 15 -20 shots a game. Both of them are usually taller than who is guarding them , so if they either make a move, or back them down , they should rise up and shoot . Geo making 6-8 of those shots is 12-16 points. As he does that , they will send a taller guard to him or play up on him , which should allow him to drive past to the tin and hopefully get fouled and get us more points from the line. It would allow us to expand leads we get and prevent droughts that have occurred. Nothing also stops Geo from playing inside out to Myles to allow him to make his move or maybe dish out to him for that jumper. That I think would make our offense more efficient.

 

[Knight Ed_rivals]

Even if your point is true, that is not what the Op was saying and not how Rutgers will win more games. Geo for sure and you can add Caleb , are really good mid range shooters, like 13-16 foot shots and in my opinion should be shooting more. Geo should be more selfish and shoot 15 -20 shots a game. Both of them are usually taller than who is guarding them , so if they either make a move, or back them down , they should rise up and shoot . Geo making 6-8 of those shots is 12-16 points. As he does that , they will send a taller guard to him or play up on him , which should allow him to drive past to the tin and hopefully get fouled and get us more points from the line. It would allow us to expand leads we get and prevent droughts that have occurred. Nothing also stops Geo from playing inside out to Myles to allow him to make his move or maybe dish out to him for that jumper. That I think would make our offense more efficient.

Geo is also a liablity on defense when matched against a guard with any quickness what so ever. HIs length is greatly overrated. Being a 6' 3" or 4" guard isn't that extraordianry and again, he gets taken off the dribble often.

 

[whofrewdatmataRU13]

Caleb needs to look for that mid range jumper early to get his offense going. He waits too long to start taking it