We list the game in the first two possessions. We have not been able to run effectively since Maryland, yet the OC thought it was a great idea to run IIRC 3 straight times to no avail. This was after effective passing plays. Every game, we send our tight end in motion and it ends up with a sweep by Drake to no avail. This failure was done in the 2nd series. Our guards are incapable of moving the line. This has been apparent since the Io-a game. Yet, we kept this crap up early in the game. The blame on the inability and/or adjust is on our offensive coordinator and offensive line coach. It is too bad to see such a great defense wasted. Our offensive coaches blew this game and we lost it in the first quarter.
Game Lost in First Two Possessions
- Thread starter catfans5
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What? I had a Coach that used to say, “you can’t make velvet out of pigskin”. Have you watched the offensive play of this team the last 5 years. There isn’t a real unquestioned stud at the skill position on O since JJTBC. On O line there has been Slater as a stud. You need more than good players to consistently win, You need a few of those studs at the same time. Jake is a giant upgrade from his predecessor and I think is a big part of how NU managed to win 5 games. Anderson has been a godsend with recruiting and his time is coming. Of all the coaches on O, you managed to pick the two that I would be most pissed about losing. No way am I blaming them for this loss. Weren’t we winning this game in the 4th?
I mentioned the same thing as the OP to a couple of my NU friends in texts early in the game. NU had a nice drive inside the 20 to get started. Take the fg!! Get points early. You don't need to send a message of flexing your muscles on the first drive. That's for when you have a lead and want to put the game away. The 2nd possession 4th/4 from midfield down only 7-0? Even dumber not to punt.
NU's ability to overcome deficits is great, but it was as if NU simply gave MSU all the early momentum and with it, a big lead.
NU's ability to overcome deficits is great, but it was as if NU simply gave MSU all the early momentum and with it, a big lead.
Miss Slater big time. On 3rd and 4th and short, there is no spot on the line that can be counted on consistently. We vant do QB sneaks etc. Not a complaint but NU lost its NFL talent player. Still huge improvement and chance at Fiesta Bowl.
Disagree, considering that the team was leading in the 4th, but agree that bad decisions and execution allowed it to get to 17-0, which should never have happened.
I have sat in the the stands for 25 years. The only time we ran with some effectiveness recently was when JJTC was here. He was always good for at least 2 yards.
We should have won this game easily. However, the stubbornness to continue to pound it on that first drive, especially since throwing the ball got you down there, was just stupid. Similar stupidity was demonstrated on the multiple qb sneaks. Our run game is/was putrid. You knew it. I knew it. MSU knew it. The whole world knew it. Yet, the brain trust decided we should go to it. Plain stupidity.
Further, we were moving well on the first drive. MSU was on its heels. Why change the modality of attack? My thinking is to get points or a lead early. It changes the complexion of the game. MSU then has to chase, but the stupid decision screwed that opportunity.
I don't know how anyone that has watched this season and this game can say that it was lost at any point earlier than the McGowan fumble.
I didn’t have a problem with going for it. It was early, show a little faith in the team. didn’t work out so it’s easy to second guess. We still came back and took the lead. Peyton has been great all year, but today he was just plain bad. Doubt he’ll have another game like this, but it wasn’t like all we had to do is decide to throw the ball and game over.
I agree. I don't believe that MSU could get back in the end zone. Just a couple of first downs would have put us in Kuhbander's range. Going up 6 might have been enough.
You have to define "recently,". Does the Larkin/Bowser of 2018 count? Is Venric 2012 recent
Because otherwise, JJTBC was like 85% of the rushing offense 2014-17 so of course he's the reference point
I am old, but not that old where recent I would put recently when we had JJ as the running back. We were consistent since some of his best runs resulted in a two yard gain. Larkin/Bowser was good also, but we do not have that type of runner which also calls into question some of the calls of running plays during the initial drives when we were moving the ball effectively through the air..
I respectfully disagree. First of all, every study that has analyzed the decision to go for it on 4th down has demonstrated that "conventional wisdom" is incorrect in many cases. From a purely mathematical sense, both decisions to go for it on 4th down were correct, at least according to this analysis.
For the first 4th down decision, we had forced a 3-and-out on MSU's opening drive. We then had marched down the field and had successful plays both on the ground and through the air. We had the Spartan defense on their heels and were facing 4th and 1 from the 18. With the way our defense has played this year, I think the aggressiveness of going for it was warranted.
For the second decision, punting from MSU's 42 yard line is no guarantee that we pin them deep. We were obviously outside of FG range. This is that "no-man's land" area of the football field where being aggressive on 4th down is often the right call. Yes, the outcome of the play (interception with a long return) was disastrous, but that doesn't make it the wrong call.
I have no problem with either decision by the coaching staff. And I certainly don't believe that either decision cost us the ball game. The more critical reasons for the loss was that our OL failed once more to open up any running lanes, our RBs didn't run effectively with what running lanes existed, and Ramsey had arguably his worst game as a Wildcat, with poor decisions and inaccurate passes all game long. We didn't execute plays as a team, but I don't think we lost because of our coaches' in-game decision-making.
We absolutely got beat straight up, across both lines for almost the whole game.
However I agree the first 2 possessions showed that MSU out coached and had outprepared for this.
1. They knew the best chance was to take risks early to get big plays and scores before we could adjust. Boom, 75 yard TD.
2. They may have also figured that we were going to force the running game, so if they sell out to stop that, we’d be behind the sticks and our early drives would stall. By the time we got away from our scripted game plan to establish the run, we were down 17-0.
3. Fitz decision on 4th and medium near midfield after their big TD was a bad coaching move because MSU had momentum and this was more likely to fail and give them more momentum.
The fact that we came back and took the lead was not because we fought back and deserved it; it was because MSU is terrible. We were still not running the ball well and were barely scraping down the field with 3rd and 4th down conversions.
It simply appeared that their offense was going downhill all the time and we were barely holding them back, whereas our offense looked like we were going uphill all the time.
We were 100% outplayed in the trenches and did not have the talent at skill positions to overcome that.
However I agree the first 2 possessions showed that MSU out coached and had outprepared for this.
1. They knew the best chance was to take risks early to get big plays and scores before we could adjust. Boom, 75 yard TD.
2. They may have also figured that we were going to force the running game, so if they sell out to stop that, we’d be behind the sticks and our early drives would stall. By the time we got away from our scripted game plan to establish the run, we were down 17-0.
3. Fitz decision on 4th and medium near midfield after their big TD was a bad coaching move because MSU had momentum and this was more likely to fail and give them more momentum.
The fact that we came back and took the lead was not because we fought back and deserved it; it was because MSU is terrible. We were still not running the ball well and were barely scraping down the field with 3rd and 4th down conversions.
It simply appeared that their offense was going downhill all the time and we were barely holding them back, whereas our offense looked like we were going uphill all the time.
We were 100% outplayed in the trenches and did not have the talent at skill positions to overcome that.
Good post, Roger. Those 4th down decisions, particularly the one on the first drive, weren't unwarranted. The decision was fine. The execution, not so much.
This. We had the lead and the ball midway in the fourth. We fumbled it away, literally and figuratively.
I am not hanging this game on the refs. We shot ourselves in the foot to lose on our own accord. Can anybody explain to me how a defender can play through a receiver initiate head to head contact and not draw a flag?
Why did Coach Jake suddenly turn into Mick McCall on that first possession? I know Fitz wants to be a running team, but this NU team is not a running team. Coach Anderson needs more time.
When Bill Walsh started coaching the Niners, his OL was nearly always overmatched when running the ball. His solution was not to keep running the ball, as NU seems determined to do, but to throw short passes. Complete enough of those to show a tendency and then they were able to run now and then.
When Bill Walsh started coaching the Niners, his OL was nearly always overmatched when running the ball. His solution was not to keep running the ball, as NU seems determined to do, but to throw short passes. Complete enough of those to show a tendency and then they were able to run now and then.
The hit on Holman was ignored. I can't recall NU ever getting an ignore on targeting. Holman appeared knocked out. No review, though. Was one of many tough moments in the game.
It seemed they were both moving laterally to get the ball and they collided. I think the defender was trying to make an INT and wasn’t even focused on Holman. Targeting, I think, excludes incidental contact.
RogerKim, We will have to agree to disagree, analytics or not. The first drive instead of an NU 3-0 lead, gave MSU a big shot of Mo that immediately turned into 7 point deficit. I agree the 2nd one, 4th/4, indeed was "no man's land". But Whether NU pins them deep or it comes out to the 20, still think you play field position there, esp down 7 early. The picked up flag on the INT was curious, but on the road in the first quarter with NU's D, I am kicking the fg on the first, punting the 2nd
I agree both were not great 4th down calls. The first one maybe understandable but I think you take points there to start off the game. Then after a failed 4th down and a quick TD the other way, on a 4th and medium you don’t want to give them another momentum boost with the ball back near midfield.