GAME 21 Northwestern: If only....
- Thread starter bac2therac
- Start date
Ron came down with that rebound with around 8 seconds left if I recall correctly, which is a bit more time than we had at the end of regulation.
Paul was getting whatever he wanted all night. Put the ball in his hands, let him take it to the hole and either take the last shot or make the right decision on who to dish to.
There’s zero doubt that young and geo had no relationship. So your point is valid
Geo is always looking for the highlight real shot or pass. Fade away, drifting to the side, no look pass. Barely goes to the rim any more. Remember the monster dunks he had in years past?
Feels like him and Ron have a good game and then think they can consistently make those plays when they were actually just on a hot streak and shouldnt be settling for the tough shots. And I wish Ron would actually get in shape.
Feels like him and Ron have a good game and then think they can consistently make those plays when they were actually just on a hot streak and shouldnt be settling for the tough shots. And I wish Ron would actually get in shape.
Actually…a lot of folks here think Geo is a star. I also had an argument with a NY sports journalist(don’t remember the name) on Twitter when he referred to Geo as our best player.
And some want his number retired!
tp
there is more to this than stats, for one Geo was injured in moments those two seasons, secondly Geo is now a 5th year senior you expect a 5th year senior to elevate his game especially when we lost JY and Pike didnt replace him. Geo was AWOL from the first few games vs Lafayette. If you post a game by game comparison of all his stats from the past 5 years that will be more fruitful than just saying he is the same player. The makeup on the team was different the previous seasons. Geo was a key cog who could hit clutch shots at times, this year he does not even have that role anymore and besides a couple of hot shooting games vs Minny and maybe another has had a bunch of vanishing act this season
This is deranged and honestly if you're calling a college basketball player who has been a model student, citizen, and ambassador for the university an ******* I think that says a lot more about you than him.
If Geo transfered and Young stayed is this an NCAA team?
Yes IMO
Yes IMO
Well said, same for Ron. In theory Ron has another year left, which I would love to get, but I'm guessing he's going pro somewhere.
Mag needs to start over Caleb at this point. And please, no more Miller until he develops a resemblance of an offensive game.
Generally if you’re point shaving you’re doing it in a game where your team is favored to win.
Actually got a text from a Rutgers friend accusing him of point shaving but he just stunk. It's not like we haven't seen bad Geo before. He would never but it's sad he played so poorly it looks like he did
Baker's development stalled his third season. Perhaps it was the injuries, perhaps he hit his ceiling. But from his sophomore to his junior season he cut out a lot of the nonsense to his games, lowering his turnover rate and improving his 2P%. Both of those improvements stuck, but he just never got there with his three point shot (his freshman year remains his highest percentage) and it's absolutely valid to say that he's disappeared for games in ways you wouldn't expect from a 5th year senior. Again... complicated legacy.
Geo had energy on the defensive end and was a part of the comeback there. Ron is the guy that let us down on both ends.
All these things you mention happen every single year he is consistent in that way. I would not expect him to elevate his game when aside from physically maturing he has not elevated his game year over year in four calendar years. Geo is consistent in this way and that is ok. He does have the role of shooting late game shots this year, not everyone one (which was the same case last year and year prior between ron young and him), he has just missed them way more often.
Unfortunately seems that way. Really hope he can sneak into the second round of the draft but Europe or G League feels more likely at this point. Seems to have the same conditioning issues still.
Good point. Geo used to have some dynamic drives. Over the last two seasons they disappeared. Now just threes and step back twos.
The monster dunk against Indiana from my avatar! Where is that Geo?
Ron playing and eating like NBA scouts aren't watching
Ron playing and eating like NBA scouts aren't watching
Andy Katz had Geo as the #9 best player in the conference Pre-Season.
Best of Luck,
Groz
I think he will be back. Playing in the B1G trumps playing in the Philippines or somewhere like that.
A lot of the Geo hype has been reinforced by Pikiell and his praise of Geo over anyone the last 3 years and the way media production in sports broadcast works in which they reinforce the talking points the coach gives them.
In fact it took til about 10 games left in last years season until Geo was dropped from broadcast pregame players to watch talking points and graphics in favor of Young and Ron/Myles depending on the broadcast.
The local media takes a similar lead from the coach which is why in the preseason everyone pushed the Geo/Ron leaders choose to return to lead another destined tournament run even though anyone in their right mind understood we had the worst offseason player movement of any team in the country (relatively speaking).
I honestly might stop watching college basketball if that happens. He's obviously within his rights to do that but man that would be so disheartening to see.
Stop using that as an excuse, Minnesota beat us with 3 guys who averaged 20 minutes, 10 minutes a game, and Treyton Thompson played 27 minutes for his career before playing 40 minutes vs us. Geo contributed 0 pts, 2reb 2 ast 2 TOs, Aiden Terry could have given us that in 38 minutes.
It is worth noting that he passed Marques Webb and Geoff Billet for most minutes played in a career at 4218 in 133 career games. That is slot of wear and tear on his legs.
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if he wants to play in the NBA that would be his best approach, I wouldnt have an issue with it given how little we here
If the season tanks, which if we’re being honest is and has been the most likely outcome of the season since early December, you have to believe he will heavily consider leaving to play a meaningful season somewhere where it may be. Wasn’t ever anticipating Ron coming back. Cliff is the one to watch imo, if he has a competent support group they will listen to the G league pitch already being made.
Kind of what I was thinking, as I'm just not sure he's NBA material - especially if he doesn't elevate his jump shot - it always has been and still is released too low, which will get blocked much more in the League. I do think he could make it as a role player though, as he is pretty versatile and has that big body, which can make him a tough match-up.
yeah, that would be a dickpunch, but unfortunately, it's becoming far more likely these days (and that can work both ways)
I have no idea where we go from here. This wasn’t just a disappointing loss.
1. Caleb was benched again in the entire 2nd half. He wears a “C.” Pike is loyal (too loyal) to his veterans. This has to be more than just his play
2. Ron and Geo deferred offensively to Paul Mulcahy down the stretch. It was stunning watching it unfold. It was reminiscent of Jacob Young last year taking control of the team offensively
Where we go from here is anyone’s guess. It is almost a given not many wins, but what do we look like?
Terrible analogy, but It feels like watching a stud pitcher all of a sudden you realize he may not be the same pitcher any more.
Maybe over reacting, but I think we might have hit an inflection point tonight. I don’t think it is the core 5 with Ron as Batman and Geo as Robin.
1. Caleb was benched again in the entire 2nd half. He wears a “C.” Pike is loyal (too loyal) to his veterans. This has to be more than just his play
2. Ron and Geo deferred offensively to Paul Mulcahy down the stretch. It was stunning watching it unfold. It was reminiscent of Jacob Young last year taking control of the team offensively
Where we go from here is anyone’s guess. It is almost a given not many wins, but what do we look like?
Terrible analogy, but It feels like watching a stud pitcher all of a sudden you realize he may not be the same pitcher any more.
Maybe over reacting, but I think we might have hit an inflection point tonight. I don’t think it is the core 5 with Ron as Batman and Geo as Robin.
i think you are overreacting somewhat, they will be back to their ways of old for Sparty in a game we have a 50/50 chance of winning
I think there was one time they didnt defer to Paul that they should have
Just like last year, this team doesn't seem like they like each other too much or trust each other. A few bad possessions and everyone's goes hero ball.
RHJ barely moves on offense. He just stands there waiting for the ball to come his way. It's crazy.
RHJ barely moves on offense. He just stands there waiting for the ball to come his way. It's crazy.
Everyone basically thinks that Geo is a super important but certainly flawed Rutgers player. Everyone also seems to think that everyone else thinks that Geo is some superstar. It's strange.
The adjusted score in this game was Northwestern 80.7, Rutgers 78.2.
Further adjusting out home court advantage, that is Rutgers 79.6, Northwestern 79.3.
Our adjusted adjusted offensive efficiency was 108.4
This would be #71/72 nationally if done consistently.
Our season long rating is 100.9 (#203).
Our adjusted adjusted defensive efficiency was 97.3
This would be #76 nationally if done consistently.
Our season long rating is 96.0 (#54).
Our adjusted adjusted efficiency margin was +11.10
This would be #73 nationally if done consistently.
Our season long rating is +6.61 (#102)
Further adjusting out home court advantage, that is Rutgers 79.6, Northwestern 79.3.
Our adjusted adjusted offensive efficiency was 108.4
This would be #71/72 nationally if done consistently.
Our season long rating is 100.9 (#203).
Our adjusted adjusted defensive efficiency was 97.3
This would be #76 nationally if done consistently.
Our season long rating is 96.0 (#54).
Our adjusted adjusted efficiency margin was +11.10
This would be #73 nationally if done consistently.
Our season long rating is +6.61 (#102)
So much to unravel in this game and the heartbreak result. I have been filling the post game threads with 2 desired thoughts that would give us a good chance to win our games based on the prior results 1) Score 70 points 2) Hold the other team to no more than 7 made 3 point goals.
We got to 70 with 2 seconds left in regulation but we gave up 8 threes not 7 or less . Now most of the damage was done in the first half giving up 6 and then we gave up 2 more early in the second half before the under 16 timeout. Then guess what? No more 3’s thru regulation and our team mounted its comeback. We ended up giving up 10 with NU’s two more in overtime which can be argued why welost as well.
How we got to 70 (78 with OT )was unique, Paul’s 31,Cliff’s 22 and Ron’s 16 and Geo and Caleb ‘s 0 with plenty of chances to score 75-80 in regulation off the missed offensive rebound put backs alone.
But what has to be addressed initially is our first half slow starts , which is now 6 Big 10 games digging our hole , only to climb back or not having enough to climb back to win. Revsine doing the broadcast said he asked Pike why and Pike answered if I knew why Dave , I would have corrected it by now. Maybe the second half was a blueprint . Pike finally did something in these games we are struggling to help his players to win. That full court trap , press, followed by doubling defenders as they crossed half court or were stuck by the sideline , where we used our length , was the key adjustment to our comeback and as always our turned up defense energized our offense.
Now Northwestern has to be given credit for playing their best first half of the year as they ran their half court offense to perfection, hit 6 threes, and out quicked and out hustled our defense and on the boards ( I counted 4 shots they missed that they got the offense rebound and converted). Probably the worst man to man we played all year. But the second half press energized our legs, leading to deflections and steals where NW could not even execute a simple pass without it being deflected. So Pike made the adjustment after being down 18 at the half and as much as 24. There is enough of a sample size to say he has to start the games this way or start in man and if we are getting torched or letting up too many threes, make the immediate first half adjustment. Again , it appears clear that our defense energizes our offense that has struggled and this adjustment will jumpstart it
Now back to 70 points. Paul was magnificent . He took over the game , became the shooting ,scoring ,passing point guard we have been desperately waiting for to emerge. Those who saw him in high school where he averaged a triple double must have had a flashback last night . His previous career high was 15 ( at Maryland ) so 31 to go along with 7 assists and 7 rebounds was a performance for the ages that unfortunately happened in a loss. Paul will unlikely be able to duplicate it because most of the BiG 10 have more athletic guards than Northwestern that he cannot abuse like he did tonight , but the shooting scoring point guard , three point shooter, not just a passer point guard or wing has been what we have been clamoring for and hopefully here to stay. Paul and Caleb scored 12 points combined in 4 of our losses playing 30-35 minutes. We have lamented we need more out of them and their minutes need reduction to allow Hyatt, Jones or Mag to start or play more minutes. Well Caleb scored 0 and his minutes were reduced and Paul scored 31 to more than make up the slack and Mag scored 2 , Hyatt and Jones 0 ( Jones DNP and Hyatt 2 lousy minutes giving up offensive rebound putback and turnover ) Last game Caleb only played 16 minutes with 4 points but Mag hit 13 points in 20 minutes to go along with Paul’s 12 and we needed everyone ‘s points. So Pike is starting to make an adjustment in minutes and maybe bringing Caleb off the bench and Mag starting is the way to go down the stretch
.There is no defending Geo ‘s 0 points tonight on 0-7 but at least he stopped shooting , pretty much deferred to Paul , played defense , got a steal after a missed shot , forced the trap in the half court and yes a terrible turnover at Ron’s legs . We scored 70 and just needed him to hit a three , a layup , drive and get fouled as they were over the limit that last 7 minutes and we win the game. There are a ton of bashers on here but Geo probably feels like **** he let his team down and will have to live with this loss .
Hard to find a lot of good things in a loss but there were many besides Paul. Cliff’s career high 22 , including the tying dunk from that great pass from Paul. If you told me before the game Paul scored 31 and Cliff 22 for 53 , I would have said who scored the 100th point. Even if we get 1/2 of their point totals going forward, we are in good shape. Dean had another good game and his athleticism is coming out on the defensive end as he almost had a terrific steal that he couldn’t control before it went out of bounds ,, but not many big men make that play. Ron penetrated and trusted Dean and dished to the baseline where Dean swished the 13 footer that helped the comeback. In fact , Pike had Oscar playing deep into that second half and I was hoping since Cliff was not in any foul trouble that he played Cliff and Dean together instead of Oscar. We were playing zone and Dean’s length and quickness would have been better in my opinion. Plus having Dean to crash the boards or be a stretch 4 was worth a look.
Finally , Ron had 16 points and dished to Dean for a jumper during the comeback after penetrating and then to Paul for the late corner three so anyone saying Ron was playing hero ball on the last shot is barking up the wrong tree. There was not a lot of time , Ron gathered the rebound and went , and then got a tremendous look that he probably knocks down 7 or 8 out of 10 times . I want him taking that shot everyday. It just did not go in. Ron also got the offensive rebound off the foul line miss and unfortunately did not convert ( lid on basket ) but was engaged and his baseline drive and foul was a thing of beauty. He also could have scored 20 tonight with a little better luck.
One final good point , we shot 81% from the foul line 21-27 which was fabulous. Ron has been shooting almost perfect lately , but Cliff and Dean and Paul and Geo and even Caleb are decent foul shooters. If they can get in the bonus in each half , we can score more without the clock moving which will help us against the gauntlet that is coming.
We got to 70 with 2 seconds left in regulation but we gave up 8 threes not 7 or less . Now most of the damage was done in the first half giving up 6 and then we gave up 2 more early in the second half before the under 16 timeout. Then guess what? No more 3’s thru regulation and our team mounted its comeback. We ended up giving up 10 with NU’s two more in overtime which can be argued why welost as well.
How we got to 70 (78 with OT )was unique, Paul’s 31,Cliff’s 22 and Ron’s 16 and Geo and Caleb ‘s 0 with plenty of chances to score 75-80 in regulation off the missed offensive rebound put backs alone.
But what has to be addressed initially is our first half slow starts , which is now 6 Big 10 games digging our hole , only to climb back or not having enough to climb back to win. Revsine doing the broadcast said he asked Pike why and Pike answered if I knew why Dave , I would have corrected it by now. Maybe the second half was a blueprint . Pike finally did something in these games we are struggling to help his players to win. That full court trap , press, followed by doubling defenders as they crossed half court or were stuck by the sideline , where we used our length , was the key adjustment to our comeback and as always our turned up defense energized our offense.
Now Northwestern has to be given credit for playing their best first half of the year as they ran their half court offense to perfection, hit 6 threes, and out quicked and out hustled our defense and on the boards ( I counted 4 shots they missed that they got the offense rebound and converted). Probably the worst man to man we played all year. But the second half press energized our legs, leading to deflections and steals where NW could not even execute a simple pass without it being deflected. So Pike made the adjustment after being down 18 at the half and as much as 24. There is enough of a sample size to say he has to start the games this way or start in man and if we are getting torched or letting up too many threes, make the immediate first half adjustment. Again , it appears clear that our defense energizes our offense that has struggled and this adjustment will jumpstart it
Now back to 70 points. Paul was magnificent . He took over the game , became the shooting ,scoring ,passing point guard we have been desperately waiting for to emerge. Those who saw him in high school where he averaged a triple double must have had a flashback last night . His previous career high was 15 ( at Maryland ) so 31 to go along with 7 assists and 7 rebounds was a performance for the ages that unfortunately happened in a loss. Paul will unlikely be able to duplicate it because most of the BiG 10 have more athletic guards than Northwestern that he cannot abuse like he did tonight , but the shooting scoring point guard , three point shooter, not just a passer point guard or wing has been what we have been clamoring for and hopefully here to stay. Paul and Caleb scored 12 points combined in 4 of our losses playing 30-35 minutes. We have lamented we need more out of them and their minutes need reduction to allow Hyatt, Jones or Mag to start or play more minutes. Well Caleb scored 0 and his minutes were reduced and Paul scored 31 to more than make up the slack and Mag scored 2 , Hyatt and Jones 0 ( Jones DNP and Hyatt 2 lousy minutes giving up offensive rebound putback and turnover ) Last game Caleb only played 16 minutes with 4 points but Mag hit 13 points in 20 minutes to go along with Paul’s 12 and we needed everyone ‘s points. So Pike is starting to make an adjustment in minutes and maybe bringing Caleb off the bench and Mag starting is the way to go down the stretch
.There is no defending Geo ‘s 0 points tonight on 0-7 but at least he stopped shooting , pretty much deferred to Paul , played defense , got a steal after a missed shot , forced the trap in the half court and yes a terrible turnover at Ron’s legs . We scored 70 and just needed him to hit a three , a layup , drive and get fouled as they were over the limit that last 7 minutes and we win the game. There are a ton of bashers on here but Geo probably feels like **** he let his team down and will have to live with this loss .
Hard to find a lot of good things in a loss but there were many besides Paul. Cliff’s career high 22 , including the tying dunk from that great pass from Paul. If you told me before the game Paul scored 31 and Cliff 22 for 53 , I would have said who scored the 100th point. Even if we get 1/2 of their point totals going forward, we are in good shape. Dean had another good game and his athleticism is coming out on the defensive end as he almost had a terrific steal that he couldn’t control before it went out of bounds ,, but not many big men make that play. Ron penetrated and trusted Dean and dished to the baseline where Dean swished the 13 footer that helped the comeback. In fact , Pike had Oscar playing deep into that second half and I was hoping since Cliff was not in any foul trouble that he played Cliff and Dean together instead of Oscar. We were playing zone and Dean’s length and quickness would have been better in my opinion. Plus having Dean to crash the boards or be a stretch 4 was worth a look.
Finally , Ron had 16 points and dished to Dean for a jumper during the comeback after penetrating and then to Paul for the late corner three so anyone saying Ron was playing hero ball on the last shot is barking up the wrong tree. There was not a lot of time , Ron gathered the rebound and went , and then got a tremendous look that he probably knocks down 7 or 8 out of 10 times . I want him taking that shot everyday. It just did not go in. Ron also got the offensive rebound off the foul line miss and unfortunately did not convert ( lid on basket ) but was engaged and his baseline drive and foul was a thing of beauty. He also could have scored 20 tonight with a little better luck.
One final good point , we shot 81% from the foul line 21-27 which was fabulous. Ron has been shooting almost perfect lately , but Cliff and Dean and Paul and Geo and even Caleb are decent foul shooters. If they can get in the bonus in each half , we can score more without the clock moving which will help us against the gauntlet that is coming.
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