GAME 20: Iowa Thoughts

[RU-ROCS]

Corey and Geo’s assists would be even higher if we did not blow easy layups. We blew 5 in the first half alone and the halftime lead could have easily been 24 instead of 14.

Speaking of that, Freeman probably leads the nation in this category, which is so frustrating to watch. He blew a couple more last night. But, last night and @ MSU Freeman was at his best. He crashed the boards, did not try to do too much on offense and got some easy put backs and break away dunks around the rim. When Freeman does not try to hoist up shots when he's double covered down low or take ill advised 3's, RU is so much better offensively. Hopefully, this is finally sinking in!

 

[RUDead]

I will guarantee you would get it from me.

I really was hoping Issa would carry it thru to the 2nd half and score 20+ and maybe a light bulb would go off saying...
A i can do it
B. the team needs me.

he caught fire in 1st half and when you look at his 2nd half box score,,,18 minutes and ZERO shots.

Issa will have an important role with this team in the future. It just won't be playing 30+ minutes and averaging 10 PPG.

Don't forget to bring a ladder into that hole you are digging! :smiley:

 

[RU-ROCS]

....and blamed Geo. Also a beauty with him putting his arms up in disgust when Sa' couldn't catch his pass.

Both of those reactions bothered me too, especially for a team captain. The second one also apparently bothered Pike because he pulled Freeman after he reacted negatively to Sa fumbling his pass. I like Freeman's rebounding and respect his effort most nights, but for this and other reasons (constant blown layups, ill-advised 3s and shots against double and triple coverage in the low post), I will not be sorry when he graduates. RU's offense is so much better when he lets the game come to him, as he did most of last night and at MSU. Unfortunately, that has been the exception not the rule for Freeman.

 

[RUChoppin]

I will guarantee you would get it from me.

I really was hoping Issa would carry it thru to the 2nd half and score 20+ and maybe a light bulb would go off saying...
A i can do it
B. the team needs me.

he caught fire in 1st half and when you look at his 2nd half box score,,,18 minutes and ZERO shots.

Issa will have an important role with this team in the future. It just won't be playing 30+ minutes and averaging 10 PPG.

Iowa also was in a "pick your poison" situation at halftime. They could let Thiam/Baker pick them apart from the outside by staying in zone, or they could go man and key on the perimeter shooters... which would open the paint and let Sanders go to work.

Against the first half zone, Thiam had 14 points and Sanders had 2. Against man in the second, Thiam had 2 and Sanders had 16.

Also curious whether Thiam was 100% in the second half after coming up limping late in the first.

 

[RU_DIO]

So ... he is averaging 8 ppg this year, on better than 40% 3-point shooting. True, it has not been a consistent 6-10 points in each game. But how on earth can you say he is unlikely continue to improve, so that by his Junior season he might not average 10-11 ppg game?

That is my projection: Next season Thiam averages 10 ppg, or better. He may never do better than that, due to mentality, killer instinct (or lack thereof), or overall athleticism. Or ... he might be able to get to 12-14 ppg by his Senor season. I say the odds of Thiam averaging 12+ ppg by his Senior season are just as good as his playing time being cut to be just a role player, as you suggest or imply.

I am really looking forward to Thiam taking his game to another level next year as he did this year. He's going to be real good when he figures it all out. It's a shame he had to play last year as it would have been a huge benefit for him to redshirt as you see he is still a work in progress. His three point shooting with a much improved floor game is going to cause match up problems for other teams.

 

[Night Man]

Great recap. Really helps all phases when you get hot from 3 but the defensive effort was top notch.

I said earlier this season on the RT, we're a streaky shooting team, not a good shooting team but streaky nonetheless (was discussing FTs but applies to 3 as well) and for every few games where we're just off, there will be at least one like last night where the 3s fall and the FTs fall as well.

 

[RUonBrain]

Issa will have an important role with this team in the future. It just won't be playing 30+ minutes and averaging 10 PPG.

Insane comment

If he is truly averaging 8 ppg now, that is only an extra bucket per game.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We have 3 incoming players at his position.

 

[BillyC80]

We have 3 incoming players at his position.

The guys coming in had better be ready to defend as well or better than Thiam. Pike will base distribution of minutes on defense first and offense second. Otherwise I see him playing 20 minutes per game next year, and more if Corey leaves.

 

[badger74]

You guys made a good hire. Keep him happy. Purdue will be tough so be ready to not enjoy that one. Skilled, big, and well coached.

 

[BoxStater]

The guys coming in had better be ready to defend as well or better than Thiam. Pike will base distribution of minutes on defense first and offense second. Otherwise I see him playing 20 minutes per game next year, and more if Corey leaves.

Exactly.
But I think last night’s play showed how unlikely & not based on any reality it is thinking that 3 players, including 2 true frost & all 3 unproven at B1G level, play are going to somehow take away most of Thiam’s minutes. A Thiam who hopefully next season makes another jump in development as he’s done from last year to this year.

Again Kiss only shot 26% from 3 his freshman year including going 0-6 from 3 against an Ivy (Brown), which I doubt had the length he’ll see in B1G play.

And none of the 3 have the length of Thiam, even before assuming that he doesn’t grown an inch like he did last off-season.

IMO, Thiam has the highest ceiling on this team, but if & when he’ll get there is another story.

 

[BillyC80]

My theory on Thiam is that he was initially timid based on not wanting to make a mistake. And when you think about it, he's pretty much accomplished that, with very few mistakes or turnovers, especially this year, even as he's begun to come out of his shell.

So now what we see is a more aggressive approach from Issa, with increased offensive productivity and improved defense to go along with a positve attitude and work ethic.

Those qualities, in a 6'10 guy who can bury the three, are worth at least his weight in gold.

 

[Bob Chaewsky_rivals]

In the post game presser Thiam says that Pike tells him not to shoot but wait until he’s wide open, so it seems he’s following orders.

But yeah tonight it became clear that you’re right, next seasonThiam will get beat out by the 2 incoming freshman and wil only play about 8 minutes a game, lol

No way Thiam plays only eight minutes a game next year, nor do I see any way Mathis and Harper both play more than him. I wouldn't underestimate Thiam's ability to defend the perimeter at 6'10".

 

[goru7]

No way Thiam plays only eight minutes a game next year, nor do I see any way Mathis and Harper both play more than him. I wouldn't underestimate Thiam's ability to defend the perimeter at 6'10".

Surprising to say the least was Coach’s comment at the meeting that ideally he will have Issa coming off the bench next year. I do not believe that means he gets only 10 minutes but likely 20 plus. It was a curious statement especially with Issa’s Overall development this year. The only thing I can think of is that certain players were promised starting roles , maybe like Mathis, and that he sees Kiss in practice everyday and thinks he is better. Geo and Duke have been starters from Day 1 and I am not sure Duke should have been or should still be. On the other hand, Coach has said he doesn’tcare who starts as he gives minutes to those that earn it. Hopefully, Issa takes the next step and starts driving to the hole and frees himself more easily for threes that he makes Coach’s decision to play him more minutes something he has earned. His defense has been outstanding this year , especially the job he did on Bridges.

 

[RUChoppin]

Surprising to say the least was Coach’s comment at the meeting that ideally he will have Issa coming off the bench next year. I do not believe that means he gets only 10 minutes but likely 20 plus. It was a curious statement especially with Issa’s Overall development this year. The only thing I can think of is that certain players were promised starting roles , maybe like Mathis, and that he sees Kiss in practice everyday and thinks he is better. Geo and Duke have been starters from Day 1 and I am not sure Duke should have been or should still be. On the other hand, Coach has said he doesn’tcare who starts as he gives minutes to those that earn it. Hopefully, Issa takes the next step and starts driving to the hole and frees himself more easily for threes that he makes Coach’s decision to play him more minutes something he has earned. His defense has been outstanding this year , especially the job he did on Bridges.

I wasn't at the meeting, but I've heard different takes on these comments. Can anyone clarify?

From one perspective, it sounds like this is a future thought - that is, "we'll look to use Thiam off the bench next year"

From another perspective, it sounds like a current thought - that is, "ideally, Thiam would be coming of the bench" (with an implied - "right now")

Which is it?

The latter seems to make more sense to me - Thiam's development isn't really there yet where he'd be a starter on an upper half B1G team, so in an ideal world there'd be someone ahead of him right now and he'd be coming off the bench.

But that's more a statement where he just had to be thrown into the fire before he was fully ready, rather than "I don't see him being a starter in the future".

 

[goru7]

I wasn't at the meeting, but I've heard different takes on these comments. Can anyone clarify?

From one perspective, it sounds like this is a future thought - that is, "we'll look to use Thiam off the bench next year"

From another perspective, it sounds like a current thought - that is, "ideally, Thiam would be coming of the bench" (with an implied - "right now")

Which is it?

The latter seems to make more sense to me - Thiam's development isn't really there yet where he'd be a starter on an upper half B1G team, so in an ideal world there'd be someone ahead of him right now and he'd be coming off the bench.

But that's more a statement where he just had to be thrown into the fire before he was fully ready, rather than "I don't see him being a starter in the future".

He was talking about next year and the following, is the way I took it, which really caught me by surprise

 

[BoxStater]

He was talking about next year and the following, is the way I took it, which really caught me by surprise

Which makes sense if Kiss proves to be a better WF than Thiam on both ends of the floor. But I don’t think we’ll know that for sure until games against quality opponents next year.

Because although Pike is high on Kiss, we must not forget the wisdom of HOFer Allen Iverson:

“We’re just talkin’ about practice!”, lol

 

[kcg88]

Which makes sense if Kiss proves to be a better WF than Thiam on both ends of the floor. But I don’t think we’ll know that for sure until games against quality opponents next year.

Because although Pike is high on Kiss, we must not forget the wisdom of HOFer Allen Iverson:

“We’re just talkin’ about practice!”, lol

Kiss is a twig. Don't think he has the strength to do any defending inside the arc.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

He was talking about next year and the following, is the way I took it, which really caught me by surprise

No, he clearly said that on a good team (i.e. a generic good team) a player like Thiam would be coming off the bench as an offensive spark. He absolutely did not say it as a prediction of his role with OUR team or program next year of the year after that.

 

[goru7]

No, he clearly said that on a good team (i.e. a generic good team) a player like Thiam would be coming off the bench as an offensive spark. He absolutely did not say it as a prediction of his role with OUR team or program next year of the year after that.

Which he thought with our recruiting class next year with Mathis and Harper coming in and Kiss eligible, we would be a generic good team.

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Which he thought with our recruiting class next year with Mathis and Harper coming in and Kiss eligible, we would be a generic good team.

We'll have to disagree. That wasn't my interpretation of his comments at all. And he certainly didn't go in depth and start talking specifics of the above players or next year's recruiting class making Issa a bench player. Even if he WERE thinking that I don't think he would announce that a current starter is destined for a drastic reduction in playing time and appreciate that being posted online. But since he didn't even say it I'd recommend thinking twice about what you consider posting about it.

 

[RUJMM78]

The starting lineup will be impacted by Sanders decision to return or leave.If he leaves,I would say the starting lineup would be Baker and Mathis in the back court and Thiam,Carter and Decource/Johnson in the front court.Mathis would be the first player off the bench if Sanders returns and the team would have more scoring options.

 

[Scarlet83]

The guys coming in had better be ready to defend as well or better than Thiam. Pike will base distribution of minutes on defense first and offense second. Otherwise I see him playing 20 minutes per game next year, and more if Corey leaves.

Yes, Thiam defends well and next year I expect him to increase his strength and improve his rebounding and his play closer to the basket.

And responding to another poster...I don’t see 3 guys coming in at Thiam’s position (the 3). It’s Kiss and Harper coming in at the 3. Kiss MAY play some 2 next year, if Corey leaves (hope not) and Kiss can guard the opposing 2. But Mathis is all 2, IMO.

 

[KnightsofChrome]

In the post game presser Thiam says that Pike tells him not to shoot but wait until he’s wide open, so it seems he’s following orders.

But yeah tonight it became clear that you’re right, next seasonThiam will get beat out by the 2 incoming freshman and wil only play about 8 minutes a game, lol

Don't agree, I think Thiam should look for more shot opportunities, not less. He needs to create more. There are not many 6'9" players that can drive to the basket like a guard from outside the 3 point line. He needs more strength, and improvement of that first step, with confidence. If he can do those things better next year, he will play plenty of minutes.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

Surprising to say the least was Coach’s comment at the meeting that ideally he will have Issa coming off the bench next year. I do not believe that means he gets only 10 minutes but likely 20 plus. It was a curious statement especially with Issa’s Overall development this year. The only thing I can think of is that certain players were promised starting roles , maybe like Mathis, and that he sees Kiss in practice everyday and thinks he is better. Geo and Duke have been starters from Day 1 and I am not sure Duke should have been or should still be. On the other hand, Coach has said he doesn’tcare who starts as he gives minutes to those that earn it. Hopefully, Issa takes the next step and starts driving to the hole and frees himself more easily for threes that he makes Coach’s decision to play him more minutes something he has earned. His defense has been outstanding this year , especially the job he did on Bridges.

Highly doubt the coach is promising anyone a starting spot. Promising a chance to earn a starting spot would be as far as I would expect him to go with a promise.

 

[goru7]

Highly doubt the coach is promising anyone a starting spot. Promising a chance to earn a starting spot would be as far as I would expect him to go with a promise.

Although technically I would agree, common now, you do not think certain recruits are promised starting roles. For the life of me, Duke should not be starting , particularly due to his propensity to pick up 2 fouls in 2minutes, but he continues to start and has ever since he reclassified. Just saying.

 

[bac2therac]

How many times have people hyped freshmen saying that they will be big factors right away and that does not pan out...sometimes it does like Geo Baker but the majority of the times it does not like with Doucoure who was forced into a starting roll way too early...Gettys he is not. Assuming that anyone next year is just going to step right in and be better is wishful thinking. They may be better talent and better players but without the experience and awareness thats not going to help the team. Thiam will be a starter next year until another player proves otherwise