Gabriel!
- Thread starter redbudman
- Start date
He'll be back and he'll be a big contributer next year as his motor is high and he's proven he can shoot.
Just looked like the game was a little too fast for him last year. I think he will be fine this coming year.
I hope he returns but how do you conclude he will be a big contributor or anything of the sort? I hope that is the case, but observable play this season is all we have to go on. He had a couple good games against mediocre competition but by the latter half of the season was quite frankly a real liability out on the court. Humphries played better as a Freshman than he did last year (please don't go on that one game) so assuming someone vastly improves from one season to the next is not always the case.
What I do hope is that all the NBA scouts in the beginning of last season saw something in him that just never occurred much on the court. Hopefully, he demonstrates whatever that was. But, I have been around too long to just blindly nod my head to these kind of posts. I remember all too much how Josh Carrier can't miss now, and well, no need to remind everyone of those type of posts during the off season.
What I do hope is that all the NBA scouts in the beginning of last season saw something in him that just never occurred much on the court. Hopefully, he demonstrates whatever that was. But, I have been around too long to just blindly nod my head to these kind of posts. I remember all too much how Josh Carrier can't miss now, and well, no need to remind everyone of those type of posts during the off season.
Gabriel will have his shot. The playing time for our front court next year will be competitive and viciously so. Gabriel at his best will get some good run next year. Guy has to consistently be a 3 point threat, get stronger and tougher, play better D, finish around the rim, etc. I know that seems like a ton of what ifs but I think Gabriel can do all of those IMO.
Nothing in that story made me confident that his intentions are to return next season. He may do it, but nothing in that story made it a sure thing Gabriel returns, only information we already know, which is that a fake account tweeted that he was entering, and that is not the case at this time. Now, the only avenue that I can see as a viable option for not returning is transferring, so I expect he will return, just nothing concrete as of yet.
Doesn't it just make sense that Gabriel is going to be better as a soph than he was last year as a freshmen? I mean isn't that the natural progression of things. The problem is everybody's definition of "better" is different. Is he going to lead the team in scoring "better"? I think it's safe to say, no, that's probably not going to happen. Is he going to be a consistent starter "better"? Maybe, depends on who else we sign and how ready they are to contribute. Maybe some of the incoming freshmen have trouble like Gabriel did. I mean this 5* stuff obviously isn't a guarantee that they'll contribute immediately. Will he be a valuable contributor that starts at times during the season "better"? I think this is realistic to expect. Someone who knows where he's supposed to be on both ends of the floor and makes consistent contributions throughout the season and averages between 8-10 ppg and 4-5 rpg. Why is it unreasonable to expect this?
The OAD has truly spoiled our fans to the point that we no longer give NORMAL players the opportunity to get better over the course of 2, 3, or 4 years. That's what the NBA does with our OAD players, or at least most of them. A lot of them are not ready to contribute immediately. The NBA allows them to grow and mature to get better over the course of a season or two.
I think Gabriel is going to be fine and be a very valuable player for us as long as he's here.
The OAD has truly spoiled our fans to the point that we no longer give NORMAL players the opportunity to get better over the course of 2, 3, or 4 years. That's what the NBA does with our OAD players, or at least most of them. A lot of them are not ready to contribute immediately. The NBA allows them to grow and mature to get better over the course of a season or two.
I think Gabriel is going to be fine and be a very valuable player for us as long as he's here.
A
anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y
Guest
It's called upside. Gabriel has a ton of it. Like Cal says, sometimes it takes kids longer.
Did someone compare Wenyen Gabriel to Josh Carrier?
What 5-star recruit has Calipari ever had that ended up like Josh Carrier?
The worst 5-star Cal has gotten would probably be Marcus Lee or Dakari Johnson...so I'd say those 2 guys are probably a floor for what Gabriel could be.
What 5-star recruit has Calipari ever had that ended up like Josh Carrier?
The worst 5-star Cal has gotten would probably be Marcus Lee or Dakari Johnson...so I'd say those 2 guys are probably a floor for what Gabriel could be.
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iGnkT3LNScLtvG16NKJ8ZWpU44h9RrT8UHq3DaOpRpM2atNjfdaB8kKWQhRXPPDvah2Fl/4dak73iWH/evOsL1H4VrPxuFXbfZpioOdJ7an8q8vAIgaFmydYbsilDUrR5zcidogCTs4DkgUuKyFUrNr6Z2OHasxq8QrRg2qU42qUoa3iEoAUozZXITrbl25MgBZtjiFRIbeOG9DsQfxO74pnLiEHV4hEbCzxh7MgeHYE1o5iTfFFr2jX13PZUHpNJMxwc2RsPEqC/VGcjYmsLaNURG/vKosT8QaSXFjYeMxAycNsdG1J5YA0apMDgSOkbCtYKaXUQbI3xIIL3dZJjtWLb9wHpu6iR8Frw1Bag2Iv5zc5ziNkucfiVn5eIzzJ3nP4rV6iC1CNxQxUNc3IATJjIkDp3SU3o3i8PrF3m69RzgRAG0wNXZEZdS1LmqNh480/tO+JSkW67xiTnqnpTTcTpnaxvYFoNUoIKUjeHEKY9VvYE07EKUZtb2LSmVg4FCNwcSYBk0fVMtxAZnVaFqy0pBTKhE6reB2WwdGSQ3oAgbAteacJNQosLf19bPpE9OaZS3DIA5hIQoMVZfBvamridoIyFUPP7jS/8AlVcK6N4D7PWvTUj9HSeesw3+YoO8yhIhFMYta+NoVaft03s95pHzXkF9EtcWu2tJB5gwvZC8oaYWRo31zTIiK1SORcS09hCDUBIQZaQSCHAyNo6QsgFjXb5hjgiNwcS1v0tCjVPtPYNY83CCm/8AwXenaFs76dR47nSFqGUzxPaU4Nfie4pRsPs3DzsfcM56jvkFicFtDsvKg50vo9Qdd3R2JRUPAd6UTho/bn/X9tJ39SzZo5a77/spO+blBFU8B3pfHO4DvSjYjR6xG28qHlTA+Lk43BcM31rh3LUb8QVq/GO6Ow/VZB7uPclG1ZYYW37uu/P16gE9HmNCYq4dYvEsNWg7PIHXZtO4+d3qGNfiewfRFEPjMnf7PHkrQ8MHPqXw/ea9v1SDCLz1a9J3J8f7gEnncf4f7pdY9HeFKG3YbiA9k8qlL+pYeQ4hwHv0v6lIFd3R7x+iDXPDvSjCnhN8dtSm3nUaf9sqXS0frnbfUG9dT5U1F8ceHegVujv/ALJRNqaMENJfiVHYcm+McT2gJBo9ShppX8ZCQ9hyO/MH5KEamWwJGVTAyHelEp2DXY9C5ov/AHoP8TU06zxEfdNdyLHfByxFU8O/+ycFwf1u0fVWiNUqXjfStXdTHfJNm7uP/md7r/op4unjY5355FZDEKg9d3eg1wubk7LZ3U1/0TlPyw7LSp7j/mFLdf1D67u9NOu3n13KAZh9+/PxTWDi5zGx2ulPfYtcCal1Rb0NJce4R3qKa53l3b/dYOqjh3pRjdUWtc0Cq6oc5JAa3qG3vSFYtqBzvRjV3ztlOQgxhdn8BFlFOvVjaWsHeT8AuNwvRPgns/F4ewxm9znfL5ILilSIQZrzr4Y7TVxOq72203fwAfEFeilyfw16NVakXtMAspUoq+0A106wG8AEzyRXFSEjx5p5FYCuCcgVKYyRzRDLG5DklhTLe0e46jKbnmJMFoA5yRwU2hgNV5gN7C0/NZuDTBZAK42/g/rkBxeGg7JiT1Sp7PBrWI/StHVP8ytwUENWQaugf9sa8/pmdnylY1PBpcDZVYer+6UUSFkAra7QC+mG0w4DfrNaO8pf+31+Pux7zPqlFT1UrGZK2nQG/wDwx7zfqsX6B3rdrG9Tgr6wVeEEKynQm+/CnkW/VMV9E7xmRouJ/VBcf4ZT1gr8IK3A0YvSY8nqz+w7vkZJ+podiAgeTPJJjIT8EuCv6qC1Wl+gGJAS6hH7wnuKbZoTfEwKQJ4Bwnr4JcFaa1EK3P8AB1ieUUJ5Ob9U3c6AYoyT5JUI/V1XH3WknuQVbVCxLArRb6BYq8SLOoB+sWM7nuBS3GgGKU4LrR5n2S1/aGEkIKqaYWBpqzt0KxDfbVB+0I+KH6FX4+4d2j6qcFWNNJqBWRuh98f9O7u+qz/wRiB2W595g/mS4Kx4sJC1WV+hOIj/AEx96n/UtbiWC3FAA1qZYCYEwZPDInglGnpDN3P5JxZU6UTz+QWRaFQ5h9DxlRjRvIHevUeBWYo29KkBGqxo64z71598H+FPrXlKGktDwXECQBtzOwbF6QAUCoQhUZpqtSDgQQCCCCDmCDkQQnQhFUOl4JMIBJ8VUzJMeMeAJOwAblLp+DLCRkKDuupU/qVxRCDQ4VobYWxLqVu0E73EvPUXEwtq+xpO9Kmw82gqShBGGH0fwme6Fi7DKJ9QdRI+BUtCCGMLoj1O931WX2bR/DB5yfipSEEcWNL2B3rIWtP2R2J5CDBtFm5o7Ag0m+yOwLNIgRrBwHYEuqOASoQCIQhAjmg7RKVrQNgjkhKgEQhCAhCJRKAWD6TTtaDzAWSVAx5JT9hvUITTsOpH1e8/VS0IIL8MYd7u36hajSLQ23vKfi6j3tz1g5pEgwRvGeRKspSIjl1XwM0D6N5UHOm0/AhQavgWd6t+OuifiKi69CEFQ0D0M+zmPa6s2qXvDpDNWIbAGZPSrclSIFQkSoMghCEUIlCEAhCEAhCEAhCEAgoQgEQhCAhLCRCBYSIQgUISIQEoQhAoSIQgIQhCAQhCAWKVCBCUShCIRCEICUIQg//Z
Believe it or not players improve from their freshman to sophomore seasons. Why would Wenyen be excluded from that?
Yeah, the Josh Carrier line was quite a bit of an exaggeration, in my opinion. I understand what uk78 was getting at, but I don't think it's accurate for Gabriel.
First of all, he's not a slow-footed 6-5 shooting guard with no vertical leap. He's a 6-9 stretch 4 who showed he could shoot the 3 in multiple games last season. He also showed his tremendous motor and a good ability to rebound and scrap for loose balls last season. Now, we can all admit that he struggled in SEC play with the physicality of other power forwards and that he became a liability on defense in league play as well. Now, it should be noted that the SEC proved itself to be a better league than many thought, especially on the defensive side of the ball. But he clearly lost his confidence and his game suffered as Derek Willis' game got better and he became the permanent starter.
I expect Gabriel to be better this coming season. He won't be as fragile from a confidence standpoint this year and that will make a huge difference.
I have a more realistic outlook on his potential having seen him for this past year. He's less athletic and more awkward in motion than I thought he'd be and he'll never be a guy that leaves here and dominates the NBA. That being said, you can NEVER have enough guys who want to give it their all like him. Heart, hustle and determination can overcome a lot of obstacles and while I'm not confident he'll ever be a man among boys while in Kentucky uniform, he'll have those big games for us. Consistently provide that MKG-esque energy and everything will fall into place.
I'd like for him to add weight, but I don't think he'll ever be a true post threat for us. If he can become a true 3 point threat like Willis while getting garbage baskets inside every now and then, I'll be stoked.
I'd like for him to add weight, but I don't think he'll ever be a true post threat for us. If he can become a true 3 point threat like Willis while getting garbage baskets inside every now and then, I'll be stoked.
If his offense comes around, he will get playing time. Otherwise he is backing up Washington and Vanderbilt.
With Gabriel's athleticism, he needs to transform himself into a defensive freak, ala Stacey Augmon.
With Gabriel's athleticism, he needs to transform himself into a defensive freak, ala Stacey Augmon.
He was hitting his stride and putting together some really good performances until he alegedly went all Kardashian on social media.
One thing people need to know is that God did not make everyone the same. As Cal as said many times & uk78 posted "sometimes it takes kids longer" to reach their potential. I look for Gabriel to work hard in the summer and show UK fans that he will be a much improved player. He will have a year of experience under Cal and will be a valuable player next season.
Gabriel is a player that will only realize his potential on his own. He has the skills of an all-around great player, its up to him to put in the work to make that happen.
I remember when Liggins came to UK, everyone talked about how great he could be and it took Cal sitting him and some hard work to finally realize his potential. For 2 years everyone on the team said Derek Willis had the best offensive game on the team, but it took him putting in effort on the glass and guarding people to finally become a starting player and big threat.
Some players do not reach their potential. Cal at one point every year said Jon Hood had the best jumper on the team and was just timid during games, but Jon just never reached where he could've been at UK. Ryan Harrow was dominating the practices in 2012, but he just could not put it together when he reached the floor.
I remember when Liggins came to UK, everyone talked about how great he could be and it took Cal sitting him and some hard work to finally realize his potential. For 2 years everyone on the team said Derek Willis had the best offensive game on the team, but it took him putting in effort on the glass and guarding people to finally become a starting player and big threat.
Some players do not reach their potential. Cal at one point every year said Jon Hood had the best jumper on the team and was just timid during games, but Jon just never reached where he could've been at UK. Ryan Harrow was dominating the practices in 2012, but he just could not put it together when he reached the floor.
There is a lot of truth in what you say. Before OAD, you typically saw your biggest improvement in players happen between their FR & SOPH years. Of course there were exceptions. Now maybe the size of AAU ball maybe has decreased that some. And I think people place too much emphasis on how many * 's a player has coming into school, and then again how they live up to that in their first season.
I would not be shocked if Gabriel had a big jump to say 12-14 ppg & 7-9 rpg, OR if he were outplayed by PJ & Vanderbilt and only played 10 mpg with as little impact as this year. It really could go either way.
I think Gabriel will be a great player for us. He will really have to produce this year with the other great forwards we will have coming in. Lot's of great depth this year.
I think this is a great take on how things stand as of right now,there are so many unknowns about next year.
Gabriel would have an advantage over Washington at the 4 if he returns. If he comes back, I’m thinking 9 points, 5 rebounds, 1 to 2 blocks, and high efficiency could be expected. I like the idea of SKJ and Gabriel coming back and developing. Kentucky’s program desperately needs some retention this summer.
Strength, footwork and court awareness on defense and offense are the areas that held Wenyan back last season. he needs to live in the gym this off-season. He has all of the tools to be a great player. His shooting stroke is good, he just needs to build his confidence.
He has the potential to be a game changer for our young team next season.
He has the potential to be a game changer for our young team next season.
cautionary tales of assuming a player will improve a lot over the summer............ The tales of D. Johnson, M. Lee, A. Poythress, K. Wiltjer, I. Humphries.... etc. You cant just assume a player will make great strides with Cal's system.
Only two of those guys had the physical tools they needed to improve in the areas they needed to work on. Actually, more accurately, all but two of those guys were too slow to play defense.
This is about how I see Wenyen...I just don't see all the "potential" that everyone else sees in him.
1. No handles at all...very much like Poythress in this regard.
2. Solid outside shot...but again...hasn't shown to be a marksman for a stretch 4.
3. No low post moves or size to speak of
4. The only plus skill he may have is he can run/move pretty good for a 4...but again, his foot speed isn't like WCS.
I like Wenyen and I'm glad he's coming back as he can help us out...but I don't see a top draft pick ever in his future unless his ball handling and ability to be a shot maker was just shelved this year due to all the other offensive talent we had around him.
Again, history tells us that what you observe on the court in college is what you should normally base your realistic expectations upon. Now, there are tons of examples of players that improve every year and typically by their Junior or Season season are like some of the younger superstars. But, there are also tons of examples of players not improving. I hope Gabriel comes back as I said before. But, just like people suggesting that any of our recruits are just going to be superstars because they were highly ranked in AAU and High School doesn't make it so. I think we can reasonably expect some will live up to the expectations and some won't. Who would have imagined that SKJ couldn't even break into the line-up as a scrub when he was a 5 star coming out of high school; "A highly skilled offensive post player with a ton of upside, Killeya-Jones has consistently climbed the recruiting rankings and should be an immediate contributor to the UK frontcourt in 2016. He was named a McDonald’s All-American during his senior season."
Dakari did drop a lot of weight, but I do not think he got to play enough to really find his groove. Playing with KAT and Willie really overshadowed him.
POY improved and I do not know where this comes from? It took him until later in the season, but he was a man on fire and could play lock up D on anyone down the stretch in 2014. 2015 he looked amazing until the injury.
LEE was not what we needed on offense and he did not improve there, but he really did provide good rim protection and was really the only one that wanted to rebound last year...when he was not in foul trouble.
Hump was just young. He got thrown into UK at the last minute at 17 years old and was 18 this year and just got lost in the rotation. You could def see flashes of an improved offensive game and they said he looked great in practice, but I think he just mentally was not ready, which is not surprising coming from a very young/raw player from another country being thrust into the BBN spotlight with several top notch talents around him.
Wiltjer was trash on D, but he did average 10 points a game his Sophomore year so there had to be some improvement. That night in Oxford really showed what he was capable of if he wanted to get there.
Dakari gets a bad rap he was a great C for UK just didn't fit our up and down style of play
Worst 5-star under Cal isn't a bad thing. You could throw Daniel Orton in there, but he, Lee and Dakari were by no means bad. Josh Carrier was BAD. Averaged under 2 PPG for his career.
I wouldn't even put him in the conversation for worst 5 star. Worst players under Cal: Harrow, Goodwin, Lee, wiltjer, Orton, and Aaron Harrison( I know others will disagree, but throw out those game winners and his stats were god awful)
Harrow was a transfer. Didn't count him.
Aaron Harrison? No. He almost scored 1000 points in 2 years!
I'll give you Wiltjer, he obviously turned out far better than any of those guys, but he also developed for 4-5 years.
Marcus Lee as a Junior was very similar to Dakari Johnson as a Sophmore.
Aaron Harrison? No. He almost scored 1000 points in 2 years!
I'll give you Wiltjer, he obviously turned out far better than any of those guys, but he also developed for 4-5 years.
Marcus Lee as a Junior was very similar to Dakari Johnson as a Sophmore.