Fran Brown vs Greg Long Term
- Thread starter RUFan8827
- Start date
Since mentioning Mora, he would have been a good choice for Syracuse.
Not making any predictions how this will work out for Syracuse. One never knows.
Their schedule in ACC:
BC
Cal- That will be a loss-Cal is solid.
NC State
PItt
Ga Tech
Miami
Stanford
Va Tech
Wild guess. Worst case, 3-9.
Best case 6-6
Probably 5-7
Gentle reminder - Greg is 9-27 in the B1G since returning (.250) but the Jury is out on Fran because hes never been a head coach and hired a DC who "made his bones recruiting".
person spends many posts bagging on Schiano, and comes to the defense of Fran when no defense is needed.
Think most people are in a wait and see mode. Interesting hire- will be solid recruiting, but how will the rest of the coaching and game planning be? That's an unknown. If he surrounds himself with experienced coordinators and coaches, it may work out for him. Or it may not. He seems like a good guy who came up from humble beginnings. Easy guy to root for. Just can't root for his team. Not going to cast stones at every little misstep. Best case is he does well for a year or two and moves on to somewhere else and leaves Cuse for dead.
Gentle reminder SUFan8827- RU's program was decimated by years of ineptitude and poor recruiting, particularly on the lines. Each year in the last 4 years had 4 near guaranteed losses. So that's 0-16 right there. take those away, and he's 9-11. How's that for some fun math and perspective.
The ACC. Bwa ha ha ha ha. 4 non-conference games, none against P5 opponents. A cushy ACC schedule.
I don't bag on Greg, I just am not a cultist and want to win. As for defending Fran, he did a lot to help this program recover from Ash, I know he isn't Greg, but still, nice if he could get a break on this site.
But nobody is bagging on Fran either.
Do you think these are fair questions:
1. What are the chances of a coach succeeding as a head coach at the P5 level when he has never even been a coordinator?
2. Are those chances of success helped when you hire as your DC a guy who has not been a DC at the P5 or a lower level?
Can't think of an example of where #1 has happened, so IMO, its a very fair question.
Now, the wild card is if he kills it in recruiting, and that may well happen. But there is more to winning than recruiting. The hill in the ACC is not as steep as it was in the B1G East (thankfully the divisions are gone in the B1G). Any comparisons are quite meaningless, but for those that like to either cast stones or question the current head coach, they will do it anyway.
BTW, I am far from a cultist. I have several issues I have noted in multiple other threads.
With his superpower recruiting, they could be 4-0. Then we'll need a fallout shelter for the board meltdown.
he is 0-16 vs OSU/PSU/Mich/Wisc/Iowa
Teams that almost never lose to anyone but themselves.
So- taking over the Ash mess- he is 9-11 against the rest of the B1G outside the top 5.
Went through all this with Hafley
The "boss recruiter" rearranging the universe template is overrated.
Now with NIL, players can just up and go any ole way.
Football teams are big with all kinds of characters.
Good football coaches have fathering type vibe.
Just being "a chill dude" doesnt go far.
Flood tried that and crime wave ensued
The "boss recruiter" rearranging the universe template is overrated.
Now with NIL, players can just up and go any ole way.
Football teams are big with all kinds of characters.
Good football coaches have fathering type vibe.
Just being "a chill dude" doesnt go far.
Flood tried that and crime wave ensued
WTF does that have to do with anything Mrs Ash? Your husband left a giant mess that he is cleaning up year by year. Most sane fans consider us on the right track. Solid foundation as evidenced by the # of highly skilled players coming back for another year.
That is the Rhule, Penn State, Temple, and Baylor connection. That is very tight group they like to surround themselves with familiar faces. It is not surprising, will it work, I don't know, but nothing really has worked at Syracuse for a while, it is a very tough place to win. If he pulls it off he is going to be a very hot prospect for one of the top tier jobs, if he fails, he goes back to being a top recruiting guru.
Those saying we are bashing Fran- we arent...Fran has proven to be an outstanding recruiter. When here- we recognized that but also had some concerns about his actual coaching. He made a great move to Georgia and who could blame him. And it led to a HC position.
Now- for the few that are worried about his recruiting and how it may impact us- it may have some impact early but less later unless he is also a great mentor to other recruiters on staff.
As HC- you win and have a reputation. As a recruiter- you are the closer, not the relationship guy. HC, outside of his reputation and wins- is no longer the recruiter.
He will be successful based on his ability to be a CEO and bring in top Coordinators as well as recruiters equal to him
think this is a foolish post
We don't anything about how Fran will do as a HC, which is very very different than being a position coach. The enormity of responsibility and attention to detail, hiring, selection, etc etc etc is all new to him.
no way to tell how he will do, just foolish post
We don't anything about how Fran will do as a HC, which is very very different than being a position coach. The enormity of responsibility and attention to detail, hiring, selection, etc etc etc is all new to him.
no way to tell how he will do, just foolish post
It's a no lose opportunity for Fran. Hope it works out for him, and he is gone to some other team that is not Syracuse in 2 years.
I agree, I hate the idea of Syracuse winning at anything, but I take solace in that it will only be for 2/3 years and if he is a success he will be gone. I can even see him ending up in the pros. He is young, just 40, that is the prime age for moving up the coaching ladder.
Fran Brown will be lucky to last as long as the previous guy, Dino Babers, 8 years. I predict Schiano will be kicked out 3-4 years if he doesn't get the passing offense in the right direction. Fran might last 5-6 years. Nobody going to consistently recruit highly rated recruits to Syracuse and everything depends on his OC hire which is probably more important than the head coach. They are getting a guy from the Giants who coaches running backs, not a OC. He was co-offensive coordinator at Baylor, probably a learning experience.
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If Fran is successful I bet he gets poached by a better program than the Cuse. Like Temple.
Only 270 days.
Until then we get to deal with Cuse fans masturbating all over our board incognito.
Yes, never have gotten the DC job is telling. SImilar to when Kurt Floods was left by Schiano to destroy Rutgers after he left.
Nice insult. Yes plz forgive me for having expectations of not losing by 25 pts to Maryland
If "Fun" math is excluding 16 games and still being 2 games under .500 I think we have different definitions of fun.
that was match point and well played
was a stupid stupid attempt on his part to adjust the win/loss
that said, this whole thread is full on retarded. way way too early to see how Fran is going to do and Fran doesn't have Manny, Moe, and Jack to overcome each year.
You do realize Greg recommended Flood and Flood was the HC here when Greg got blackballed on NFL assistants and had to raid our coaches- he was not "left" here.
I am not sure what point you are trying to make here.
My argument is that no one else even giving Brown a chance as coordinator, let alone head coach, is telling.
You listed a bunch of guys who have mostly followed the assistant-coordinator -lower level HC path so I don’t see how they are relevant.
I didn't see your post when I posted mine- what do they say about great minds- even had the same two West Powers. lol
Loved the name change too
The ability of anyone to recruit at Syracuse is way overrated. They have almost nothing to offer, including NIL.
Also see the other post on the new FBS subdivision. Syracuse, and many other ACC schools, don't meet the proposed financial requirement to play with the big boys.
Fran's recruiting ability depends on whether he decides to be head coach or head recruiter. Can't do both. Plus, his recruiting personality may get him into living rooms, but he has nothing to offer to close the deal.
Also see the other post on the new FBS subdivision. Syracuse, and many other ACC schools, don't meet the proposed financial requirement to play with the big boys.
Fran's recruiting ability depends on whether he decides to be head coach or head recruiter. Can't do both. Plus, his recruiting personality may get him into living rooms, but he has nothing to offer to close the deal.
I can confidently predict, with absolute certainty, that Brown will either succeed wildly, or fail miserably, or else he will land somewhere between those two extremes.
Everyone seems to want to argue in this thread. So go ahead, prove me wrong.
Everyone seems to want to argue in this thread. So go ahead, prove me wrong.
With that schedule Fran might have a Jim Mora type first year and not crash and burn like someone did in the Rockies after being touted as the COY by the Buff Boys before the horse **** they were selling became buffalo chips
but I heard someone say that Mrs.Brown has a lovely daughterI can confidently predict, with absolute certainty, that Brown will either succeed wildly, or fail miserably, or else he will land somewhere between those two extremes.
Everyone seems to want to argue in this thread. So go ahead, prove me wrong.
You said the fact that better schools haven't jumped on him as full DC or HC and that he had to settle for a lower status school like Syracuse says a lot about how his coaching ability is perceived.
I'm saying even if that is the perception it doesn't mean it's reality. It might be or might not be reality.
Regardless of whether it's DC or HC or whatever having no alternatives besides a lower status school isn't something you can read into about his ability. I think most likely it won't work out (that's not saying much because more often than not hires generally don't) but I can't say that's because no one higher up gave him a shot. Like I said ADs don't go off the beaten path much, that's why only a Kansas would give a Leipold a shot or KSU for Klieman. Better schools didn't jump on them either. Only when they did well there did suddenly other schools take notice and think about them as candidates. Also suddenly then a name like Cignetti at JMU or Chesney at HC seems more plausible as candidates because of what Leipold, Klieman, DeBoer have accomplished.
As for coordinators we see how much coaches more often than not stick in their cocoon of guys they've worked with so if Brown doesn't have a good enough network he might not get that shot. Look at Buh here, he's been lousy everywhere as DC but still got a shot as DC here because he knew Ash and that kind of thing isn't an exception.
Lack of opportunity doesn't necessarily say anything about acumen, it may or may not. We don't know. Lack of opportunity just means lack of opportunity sometimes or not getting that lucky break.
He's got his opportunity now, so we'll find out. Same for Robinson. Notice now that his buddy (just like other HCs) got a HC spot he's got an opportunity as DC. With him too, he's got his shot now so we'll find out.
Hafley was once our lead recruiter and one of the best. Now he's head coach and doesn't have time to know every recruits best friend, girlfriend, where he likes to eat, what movies he watches or how his vacation went. The same will happen to Fran. That's how these guys worked, they knew every aspect of a recruit's life and became their best friend. That job now falls to his assistants and will determine his fate.