Fournette - should he play or sit out?...

[dawgstudent]

Selfishly - I want him to play as an overall college football fan. As a Mississippi State fan - I hope he sits out. If I was him - I would sit out.

It was funny to read Herbsteit's take on it yesterday saying it was preposterous to even think he should sit out. I just wonder if it was Herbsteit's kid - what would he say.

 

[aTotal360]

DS, I wonder what YOU would say if Fournette played for MSU...I think Herbstreit is 100% correct. I swear the media and the snake oils salesmen agents are going to ruin college football. And changing the draft rule is dumb. Don't overhaul the ENTIRE system for 1 guy that pops up every 3-5 years.

 

[Chesusdog]

If I were him I'd sit.

 

[dawgstudent]

Hell yeah I would want him to stay. But if you have a chance to go make millions - should you be stopped from doing it?

 

[ronpolk]

This guy is a once in a generation talent it appears but I think if I'm a GM it changes my perception of the guy if he sits out. I'd want to draft a guy that was team first. With that said, I couldn't blame him if he sat out. RBs have a short shelf life anyway, probably more than any other position.

 

[aTotal360]

IMO, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Pick one...do you want NCAAF to thrive and be healthy or do you want a couple sophomores every 3-5 years to be rich. If you choose B, then be prepared for college football to trend towards college basketball. The "they should have the opportunity to earn a living" crowd is only looking at the best case scenario have no regard for collateral damage.

 

[dawgstudent]

As evidence of my physique - I actually have had my cake and eat it too.

 

[Seinfeld]

Here's what I've always had a hard time understanding. If you were to go apply for nearly any professional job in this day and age, there's typically going to be something in the job description calling for a minimum of 5-7 years experience in this field, 3-5 years in that field, or perhaps even a certain degree/certification. If you don't meet those minimum requirements, in a lot of cases your resume gets screened out and no one bats an eye.

With pro sports, though, it seems to always be the "evil" NFL or NBA when these discussions come up, and the thing is... they aren't preventing anyone from going and making a living or even playing pro ball. The only thing they're doing is saying we don't want you in our league until you meet X requirements, and I have no idea as to what has ever been wrong with that.

I get it that NFL players have a short shelf life and the running back position in particular is even shorter, so if a player chooses to sit out a year in order to prevent possible injury, I would completely understand. I will not, however, feel bad for him that he can't jump straight to the league. Especially when you're talking about a once/decade talent like Fournette. You just can't change a rule for one rare exception in my mind

 

[thf24]

Perhaps he should sit out to avoid injury... of numerous opposing players. Dude is racking up a body count already. I'll believe that specimen can actually be injured when I see it.

 

[RebelBruiser]

OK...but if you are a prodigy in your field that does something that gets published in journals across the world, then you would probably be able to get around the whole 3-5 years experience thing and get a pretty sweet gig.

That's what Fournette is. He's a prodigy in his chosen field, so the comparison to Average Joe College Degree Guy isn't accurate.

 

[RebelBruiser]

This guy is a once in a generation talent it appears but I think if I'm a GM it changes my perception of the guy if he sits out. I'd want to draft a guy that was team first. With that said, I couldn't blame him if he sat out. RBs have a short shelf life anyway, probably more than any other position.

If I'm a GM, I think I see it as a positive if Fournette sits out, especially if he does it next year. He's already started this season with his team. He needs to finish that out. If after this year though he chooses to spend a year training and NOT taking hits, that's a plus if I'm a GM, because it means he's saved his body for my use.

This is an issue more for RBs than any other position. Any other position, I might say different, but for RBs, especially when you've got a coach running Fournette the way Miles does (25 carries a game right into the teeth of 9 or 10 man boxes), your shelf life is limited. Every game Fournette plays next year is one less that his body will be able to take at the pro level.

He's a rare case, but he's one where I would fully support him sitting the year. It wouldn't hurt his draft stock, and might actually help it, and it would preserve his body for the games where he actually gets to make money for his talents.

 

[Seinfeld]

Completely agree, which is why I'm sure that there are pro football leagues all over the world that would absolutely love for Fournette to come on over and sign a contract. The NFL just happens to not be one of them, though, and I have no problem with them sticking to their guns. Fournette may indeed be a prodigy, but the NFL is a whole lot bigger than him or any individual player

 

[dawgstudent]

There's 2 viewpoints.

As a fan - I want college football to be awesome, exciting and whatever else.

If I was Fournette, I would want the opportunity to go ahead make $$$. He has proven he is ridiculous as a college athlete.

 

[codeDawg]

A better question is, why should he play? He's proven his draft value. His team will win handily with or without him. He's not bringing a lot of value to himself or the team by playing. There is only risk to be had.

There is value to the fan that buys the ticket, but what are you really expecting when you buy a ticket to watch LSU play St. Mary's House of the Blind and Crippled? Maybe he comes out, breaks off a few runs and takes the day off to satisfy the ticket holders.

 

[aTotal360]

Again, you have pick one or the other.

 

[dawgstudent]

No you don't. I choose both. I win.

 

[Lucky Dawg]

Great analogy. Agree 100% with this. He's Bill Gates/Mark Zuckerberg, if those two were guaranteed to lose 20 IQ points every year. Requiring him to graduate is costing him money both in the short term and long term, and the only people benefitting are LSU and two "non-profit" institutions that collude to divide the labor supply.

 

[JacksonTiger.sixpack]

Nkemdiche should sit now. He's already a top 2 pick.

 

[aTotal360]

NCAAF should be more like NCAAB. Great idea. **********

 

[RebelBruiser]

Nkemdiche should sit now. He's already a top 2 pick.

Maybe now, but he definitely needed to play this year. He's greatly improved his stock from where it was pre-season already, and if he closes strong, he'll cement himself as a Top 5 pick. He wasn't Top 5 before the year. Tunsil, on the other hand, he probably could have afforded to take this year off...and still might, though not by choice. I think he'll be back, but he's not going to improve his stock from where it already was (Top 5 pick).

Regardless, neither of those players are tailbacks, so it's not as big a deal for them to play an extra year. The shelf life at their respective positions isn't as limited as it is for tailbacks, and a tailback's shelf life is directly correlated to the body blows he takes. Fournette, in particular, with the way he's used, is taking a LOT of body blows this year, and he'll take just as many next year.

I think most GMs would rather see him sit next year, so they know he's not wasting any of those blows for free.

 

[rem101]

So you're for Tunsil sitting out the rest of the year to save himself the NFL?

 

[SheltonChoked]

And gates/sucker burg is a horrible analogy. Unless you think fournette is going to invent a new sport to get rich playing.

And being a journal published child prodigy counts as experience. So that isn't the case here either.

It's not the non profits colluding, it's the NFL and the NFLPA. Both have the interest in not allowing underclass men to declare. Both care about $$$. Older players make more, and bringing in a bunch of young not quite ready talent would hurt the league. They are not willing to risk that for maybe 1 guy every other year.

 

[JacksonTiger.sixpack]

You're right, D linemen don't get hurt. But this conversation started because everyone said Clowney should have sat. Nkemdiche should sit. As should Tunsil and Treadwell, they're guaranteed 1st rounders. After what Kelly's put up in the first 4 games, he should consider it too. I have no idea why Dak even suits up now. Henry should sit. Chubb should sit too.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Completely agree, which is why I'm sure that there are pro football leagues all over the world that would absolutely love for Fournette to come on over and sign a contract. The NFL just happens to not be one of them, though, and I have no problem with them sticking to their guns. Fournette may indeed be a prodigy, but the NFL is a whole lot bigger than him or any individual player

Which is a great point. I have to wonder if there is a potential market for someone to come in and make money off that NFL rule.

There are a LOT of great football players that don't get into school for various reasons, and there are those who would rather make money than go to college. I don't know if you could get the demand for TV and tickets to make the business model work, but it certainly seems like there would be an opportunity there to create a professional league that targets that 18-21 age range of players, in effect becomes a professional version of college football that has no academic requirements.

I could see setting up about 6-8 regional campuses with hired staffs aimed at developing football talent, and then let those teams recruit and pay players salaries. Guys that want to leave early and make money could do so. Guys that can't make grades can still have an avenue to try to get to the NFL. Guys that don't want to go through with the farce of college and want to make actual money, not booster money, could just choose to forgo college. There is certainly a potential supply of talent that's not being addressed. I just don't know if you could draw the eyes of the fans for TV/Tickets in order to fund the league, since loyalties are already split between College and NFL football.

 

[RebelBruiser]

So you're for Tunsil sitting out the rest of the year to save himself the NFL?

I'm a fan, so absolutely not.

If I'm his family, I'm seriously considering it. See how that works. You can actually set your fandom aside and have a real opinion about something.

ETA: Point being, if Tunsil decided to say, "Screw it; I'm not dealing with the NCAA anymore; I'm just going to sit out", I wouldn't be happy about it as a fan, but I would certainly understand him making that call, and I wouldn't blame him.

 

[johnson86-1]

The "they should have the opportunity to earn a living" crowd is only looking at the best case scenario have no regard for collateral damage.

The "the shoudl have the opportunity to earn a living" crowd is looking at players like Fournette as human beings. Just like they generally don't want employers to be able to collude to not hire employees, they don't want NFL teams to be able to collude to restrict a person like Fournette from being employed at a position that his talent justifies. I don't think anybody is under the impression that Fournette leaving after this year will make college football better (maybe some SEC LBs and DBs, in which case in their defense playing in the SEC would look a lot better to them if they didn't have to be hit by fournette).

 

[RebelBruiser]

You're right, D linemen don't get hurt. But this conversation started because everyone said Clowney should have sat. Nkemdiche should sit. As should Tunsil and Treadwell, they're guaranteed 1st rounders. After what Kelly's put up in the first 4 games, he should consider it too. I have no idea why Dak even suits up now. Henry should sit. Chubb should sit too.

A couple things here:

1) Unless you're guaranteed Top 5, there is more money to be made by playing and increasing your stock. Nkemdiche is a prime example. He's in the process of playing his way into the Top 5. Would he be there now if he sat the rest of the way? Maybe. He certainly wasn't there in August though. He was first round, but not Top 5. By playing, at least to this point, he's made himself more money. That said, if he had the option to leave after his sophomore year, I would've advised him to do so, because the sooner you get to that second contract, the better. Since he didn't have the option though, playing and increasing your stock is better than sitting and settling for a lesser stock.
2) Again, this is a bigger deal for RBs than any other position. It's not so much about injuries as it is long-term wear and tear. The RB position, more than any other, requires the player to be at peak physical health, and it's also the position where wear and tear accumulates most, shortening the career of the player, even if there are no serious injuries.

Fournette is in a unique spot, because he's a tailback, and because he is going to be a Top 5 pick whether he takes another snap or not. That makes his situation a little different than most.

 

[johnson86-1]

Here's what I've always had a hard time understanding. If you were to go apply for nearly any professional job in this day and age, there's typically going to be something in the job description calling for a minimum of 5-7 years experience in this field, 3-5 years in that field, or perhaps even a certain degree/certification. If you don't meet those minimum requirements, in a lot of cases your resume gets screened out and no one bats an eye.

If employers in an industry (or even just the 30 best employers in an industry) met annually or more often in order to reach an agreement that they wouldn't pay anybody a market wage until they had worked for at least three years as an intern making $15 an hour, you'd see people batting plenty of eyes. It's complicated with sports leagues because there has to be some collusion in order to have a league, so it's not as clearly a problem as when industries do it, but that doesn't mean that any and all collusion should be ok.

 

[fishwater99]

Maybe he can do like Tunsil..

There's 2 viewpoints.

As a fan - I want college football to be awesome, exciting and whatever else.

If I was Fournette, I would want the opportunity to go ahead make $$$. He has proven he is ridiculous as a college athlete.

He doesn't want to be cleared.. Fournette could find a way to be declared ineligible and just get ready for the draft like Tunsil did..

 

[aTotal360]

There are 7.125 billion humans on Earth. I have NO problem "screwing one over" if it it keep dozens more from making a mistake and it provides a better overall product for its millions of consumers. That's a heartstring of mine that won't get pulled. I have zero sympathy for a Fournette or Clowney. Just sit out if you want. I have no problem with that. Just don't make sweeping changes to draft eligibility because of 1 player that pops up every 3-5 years.

 

[Lucky Dawg]

And gates/sucker burg is a horrible analogy. Unless you think fournette is going to invent a new sport to get rich playing.

I don't think you understand the word analogy.

It's not the non profits colluding, it's the NFL and the NFLPA.

The NFL is one of the non-profits I was alluding (referring, pointing) to.

Bringing in a bunch of young not quite ready talent would hurt the league.

I wasn't aware we were talking about forced drafting of underqualified or unknown sophomores. We were talking about the eligibility of a once in a generation talent.

 

[MagnoliaHunter]

how the 3 year rule could be changed.

College player should be able to leave at the end of any year, if he gets a team sponsor. Team who is his sponsor, signs contract with NFL stating that they will draft player. Possibly have to add that they have to take player in first round, or first 2, or first 3 rounds. If he gets taken earlier by someone else even better. If player can't get a sponsor, that tells him that he is not ready and to stay in school. This way players don't leave early and not get drafted and thus lose their college eligibility and free college education.

 

[Crazy Cotton]

Sit out, without question. Imagine if you had a rare talent, let's say you were a savant at the stock market, and the brokerage houses had colluded so that you were forced to work for Wells Fargo, for minimum wage, for three years before you could sell your talents on the open market. You will earn them and the rest of the brokers millions while you do so. Sure, you could go work for some Canadian firm, but you're a GD American, so that doesn't really appeal to you. On top of that, you're unique talent has a time limit of 10 years of active trading maximum, after that you're a washed up hack that will be changing careers. Also, one bad trade and you're out of the market forever, even if it happens during your probation years. You're given the option of spending one of those years working for minimum, or preserving that year for the day you can go strait to the market with your talent and make millions. What do you choose?

 

[johnson86-1]

There are 7.125 billion humans on Earth. I have NO problem "screwing one over" if it it keep dozens more from making a mistake and it provides a better overall product for its millions of consumers. That's a heartstring of mine that won't get pulled. I have zero sympathy for a Fournette or Clowney. Just sit out if you want. I have no problem with that. Just don't make sweeping changes to draft eligibility because of 1 player that pops up every 3-5 years.

I suspect you might feel different if you were the one getting screwed over. By your logic, why not just take 1% of the population and randomly assign them to a class that can never charge more than $2 an hour for their labor? Yeah, it would suck for them, but they'd still get paid more than the world average and it would be awesome for the other 99% to have the extra cheap labor around. Why worry about the harm to just 1% of the population when it works out better for 99%?

 

[RebelBruiser]

College player should be able to leave at the end of any year, if he gets a team sponsor. Team who is his sponsor, signs contract with NFL stating that they will draft player. Possibly have to add that they have to take player in first round, or first 2, or first 3 rounds. If he gets taken earlier by someone else even better. If player can't get a sponsor, that tells him that he is not ready and to stay in school. This way players don't leave early and not get drafted and thus lose their college eligibility and free college education.

The bolded part always makes me laugh. A free college education is nice and all. You can use it to go make $50K a year, and maybe if you're lucky, by the time you've been somewhere 20 years, you'll be making $200K a year or so. If you're really lucky, you may get into the 7 figure range. Meanwhile, if you're a first round draft pick, you can go get 4 years with $5-20M guaranteed and a $3-15M signing bonus. In other words, you can make a lot more in 4 years (without a degree) than you could make with a degree not playing football. That college degree value is so miniscule compared to the NFL opportunity.

If my elementary school kid had someone willing to offer a 4 year deal for $10M with a $5M signing bonus right now, only I'd have to let her quit school, we would drop out of school in a heartbeat. Her education isn't going to be worth nearly as much in the long run as that short-run deal. Now, I'd get her an investment professional and work it out for her to be able to live off that money for the rest of her life, but school would be OVER. It would serve zero purpose anymore.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

We could call it the USFL...

 

[fishwater99]

I'm a fan, so absolutely not.

If I'm his family, I'm seriously considering it. See how that works. You can actually set your fandom aside and have a real opinion about something.

ETA: Point being, if Tunsil decided to say, "Screw it; I'm not dealing with the NCAA anymore; I'm just going to sit out", I wouldn't be happy about it as a fan, but I would certainly understand him making that call, and I wouldn't blame him.

Don't you think that is what he is doing now? He is done at Northern Mississippi...

 

[StillTbonewannabe]

Just look at the NFL and see how many RB are starting after 30. RB more than any other position has a ticking clock. The longer you are in college, the less time you are in the NFL.

 

[mstateglfr]

This guy is a once in a generation talent it appears but I think if I'm a GM it changes my perception of the guy if he sits out. I'd want to draft a guy that was team first. With that said, I couldn't blame him if he sat out. RBs have a short shelf life anyway, probably more than any other position.

Couldn't it be argued that he is being team first by sitting out? As a GM, he is being team first for YOUR team. He is sacrificing the opportunity to play college football and set records for the chance to stay healthy and play for YOUR team. As a GM, that's what you should care about- your team. And he is protecting his body for your team before even being on your team.

 

[Strike.sixpack]

There are some good points and counterpoints for and against the argument. But the bottom line is the NFL and the Players Association has set this rule. He can try to challenge it but as of today it has been upheld. So it's about if he wants to sit for a year and see if his stock drops because he has done so. It's a slippery slope though and full of risks either way. Some GM's might care, some might not. But there will be players as well who will have an issue with the descision to sit and wait for the draft. We have players already leaving too quick and don't even get drafted so I see an problem of more and more players trying their hand on playing just 2 and sitting. It's not just what this one player might achieve but what this decision snowballs into 5-10 years down the line. What about the super freshman who decides to sit 2 years? Agents are a big enough headache as it is, now it is encouraging them to solicate younger and younger guys to make a decision that very well may not be a good one for the player.