Fouling when you're up by 3...

[kybassfan]

Depends on the nature of the foul. Just to foul someone outright is cowardly and largely stupid. That said, pursuing a strategy of aggressively going after the ball is legitimate defense. If a foul happens, it happens

 

[Lempface]

Your take on this an interesting one. Rules can and should be tweaked for the betterment of the game. Understand your point, but the situation is very rare. I don't think legislation will deal with something so rarely seen.

Tactics like the four-corners (yes, quite a gutless tactic but within the rules) brought about a sweeping change because of its negative effect on the game as a whole. In the interest of having the sport continue as a popular spectator sport, we had to specify a shot clock, and have gone through several changes to tweak that. Coaches could have used this every game, so it had widespread effects. Fouling in this case happens so rarely, it will likely never be taken out of the coach's hands as a tactic used to win a game. It is surprising how many coaches might differ on this--in my mind, I foul most every time.

Only once--against Mississippi State in the 2010 SECT--have I ever seen this backfire. Kentucky was extremely lucky to convert one free throw and then miss the next after MSU fouled us up three. Bledsoe shot and missed after tracking down the FT miss, but Cousins rebounded with a quick "put back" to tie the game. We won in overtime. I have never seen this successful since or before. You do what it takes within the rules to win.

I agree it is too situational for a specific rule, but ancillary rules like continuation would make the play a higher risk which would limit the number of times it was employed.

 

[CELTICAT]

Didn’t Pitino lose a game in Knoxville when up three and he opted to foul? 1993 I think. UT player hit the first, scramble on the rebound lead to an And 1.

 

[FltDoc]

What are your thoughts about fouling when you're up by 3 with a few seconds left? I get, as a coach, it's your job to get a W. But, IMO it's pretty cowardly and outside the spirit of competition. Just see it as a cheap way to win a game. Thoughts?

SemperFi...

There's no chivalry on the battlefield anymore -- those ideas disappeared long, long ago...

If the rule is there, then one would be foolhardy not to use it...

Go CATS!

 

[SemperFiCat]

If you can foul when you're down to extend the game, you can foul when you're up to prevent a three attempt. Zero difference.

This take opened my eyes. I think I'm wrong. I don't like fouling before a three, but there's logic here.

 

[Lempface]

This take opened my eyes. I think I'm wrong. I don't like fouling before a three, but there's logic here.

I don't like intentionally fouling to extend the game either, but not sure you can realistically do anything to combat that one.

 

[SemperFiCat]

I don't like intentionally fouling to extend the game either, but not sure you can realistically do anything to combat that one.

Nobody does. But necessary evil. I do think there's a difference in extended the game for a chance to win while a team gets FTs , and literally preventing a shot. I don't like either, but I guess it's part of the game.

 

[TheOtherGreatOne]

I think the missed free throws were more of an issue... They had their chances prior to Chalmers' heave.

If they would have fouled him before he shot, the missed free throws would have been irrelevant. Chalmers could not have scored 3 points shooting 2 free throws

 

[Orange Soda King]

Absolutely do it!!

 

[scUKfan22_rivals109289]

If you’re worried about things that are cowardly and outside the spirit of competition just get rid of the charge calls and zone defense.

 

[Blue Wildcat]

I would block a free throw if it meant pulling off the win.....wait, that doesn’t work.

Drunk BCG Tactics

 

[Lempface]

If you’re worried about things that are cowardly and outside the spirit of competition just get rid of the charge calls and zone defense.

Charge calls yes but zone is clearly in the spirit of competition. Do you hate zone D in football too?

 

[Bluetick2100]

Why not give the option, shoot 2 FT's or, take the ball out from the sideline?

 

[Blue Wildcat]

If you’re worried about things that are cowardly and outside the spirit of competition just get rid of the charge calls and zone defense.

You play to the strengths of your team period. I’ve ran man to man and zone defenses with my AAU squads. I’ve ran zones that require more work than man to man. I love using a 1-3-1 zone because most coaches have no idea how to run an offense against it. You do what it takes to win in my opinion.

 

[BlueVelvetFog]

The word “cowardly” seems to thrown around a lot in this thread

 

[drbubba]

Depends on the nature of the foul. Just to foul someone outright is cowardly and largely stupid. That said, pursuing a strategy of aggressively going after the ball is legitimate defense. If a foul happens, it happens

Why can't you just play a few seconds of defense? If you're up 3 and you don't foul, the worst you can do is overtime.

 

[RalphDaltonFan]

What are your thoughts about fouling when you're up by 3 with a few seconds left? I get, as a coach, it's your job to get a W. But, IMO it's pretty cowardly and outside the spirit of competition. Just see it as a cheap way to win a game. Thoughts?

Agree with you 100%. It's a must considering the rules allow you to use rules violations as strategy--but why not make the game about the players deciding things and not guys on sideline? People tune in to see players make/miss shots in those moments--not fouls, but as long as they have rules as they are, you better foul if you want to win. Now as I say that-I could see Cal fouling in that moment and Sarr getting his *** kicked for a rebound off missed FT and then fouling them and losing in regulation by 1 after they split FT's and make a shot and FT to win.

 

[scUKfan22_rivals109289]

Charge calls yes but zone is clearly in the spirit of competition. Do you hate zone D in football too?

I actually would be ok with zone if they could just do something like the nba with defensive 3 sec call. Just hate it that you can stick a dude in the middle and clog things up like that instead of having to actually come out and guard somebody.

 

[scUKfan22_rivals109289]

You play to the strengths of your team period. I’ve ran man to man and zone defenses with my AAU squads. I’ve ran zones that require more work than man to man. I love using a 1-3-1 zone because most coaches have no idea how to run an offense against it. You do what it takes to win in my opinion.

And that’s fine if

You play to the strengths of your team period. I’ve ran man to man and zone defenses with my AAU squads. I’ve ran zones that require more work than man to man. I love using a 1-3-1 zone because most coaches have no idea how to run an offense against it. You do what it takes to win in my opinion.

i have no issue with more advanced zones and zone presses I just want 2-3 out of the game. Especially at younger levels as it does nothing to help kids learn to guard and it definitely makes it much harder on Young kids learning to play basketball offensively.

 

[LexCatnOhio]

What are your thoughts about fouling when you're up by 3 with a few seconds left? I get, as a coach, it's your job to get a W. But, IMO it's pretty cowardly and outside the spirit of competition. Just see it as a cheap way to win a game. Thoughts?

If playing this way is cowardly. Why not just move out of the way, throw your balls on the slab and give them a wide open shot and dare them to hit it? Because defense on a final play is just as cowardly by your logic.

 

[Blue Wildcat]

And that’s fine if

i have no issue with more advanced zones and zone presses I just want 2-3 out of the game. Especially at younger levels as it does nothing to help kids learn to guard and it definitely makes it much harder on Young kids learning to play basketball offensively.

I don’t disagree at all. Having kids stand and rotate in a spot, often with their hands at their sides, is a terrible way to teach young players to play ball. We trap everything below the 3 point line. When you catch it, you’re dealing with 2 defensive players almost immediately. Really easy to transition to man to man out of it, because they are so accustomed to watching the ball and jumping the passing lanes.

 

[SkyTalker]

What are your thoughts about fouling when you're up by 3 with a few seconds left? I get, as a coach, it's your job to get a W. But, IMO it's pretty cowardly and outside the spirit of competition. Just see it as a cheap way to win a game. Thoughts?

I hate it.....I'd rather just give a team a tough look at a three. Get in their face and don't foul. Most of the time it will be a rushed shot anyhow.

 

[kybassfan]

Why can't you just play a few seconds of defense? If you're up 3 and you don't foul, the worst you can do is overtime.

I think that is what I just said. Perhaps you don’t think forcing a turnover is defense? Up 3 with limited time is a legitimate situation in which to aggressively pursue a turnover.

 

[zannmann]

I don't like intentionally fouling to extend the game either, but not sure you can realistically do anything to combat that one.

The rule to avoid intentional fouling at the end of the game is the double bonus. But it failed to work.

 

[Lempface]

The rule to avoid intentional fouling at the end of the game is the double bonus. But it failed to work.

Yeah, the only thing I can think of is the team who was fouled can decline the free throws and retain possession. Then award technical fouls and retain possession if teams commit consecutive fouls before a shot attempt. Officials would probably screw that up too often though.