Go to Reddit college football or open college boards, where most non-RU fans are saying Hobbs and RU are in the right for not caving to Schianos ludicrous demands, just so you schiano nuts can get a perspective that isn’t just the inside of your ***
For Outside Perspective
- Thread starter RUwoz
- Start date
Yes Reddit is the source for rational calm intelligence
I was not a “Schiano or bust guy”, but do you realize that the normal, day to day, discourse on Reddit makes this place look sane in comparison?
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Reddit as a whole I get the argument, but Reddit CFB is a pretty great gathering of people who know and love football pretty calmly
Yes because non rutgers fans know our situation
https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/...-rutgers-greg-schiano-reunion-fell-apart.html
Rutgers had done everything but stuff balloons in the rafters and book College Avenue for a parade. Midway through last week, school officials had begun making plans for a triumphant press conference, even booking a company to set up a stage on the basketball court at the Rutgers Athletic Center. Invitations would go out to the governor, prominent ex-players and other dignitaries. As they prepared the trumpeting press release, public relations staff members collected glowing, celebratory quotes from prominent former football players.
Greg Schiano was coming back as Rutgers football coach.
What point are you trying to make?
Wouldn’t you expect the fan base to know their own situation the best?
Wouldn’t you expect the fan base to know their own situation the best?
Not in a situation like this where people are too caught up in the nostalgia of what they remember from last time Schiano was here. The outside perception of Schiano is bad, laughably so, and seeing the way every other Power 5 School fan base views him could help some understand that he isn't the only option that can succeed here.
I think that is fair regarding Schiano, but it ignores the challenges specific to NJ that most reddit posters would have no idea exist.
For example, fans of a state school would expect that the best HS players in a state would want to go to their state school, because that is what happens where they live. Most have no idea that the best NJ players are recruited away from their home public HS to go a parochial, and as a result have little loyalty to RU and in fact are already trained to go away to school.
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The Reddit comments are a lot more reflective of the opinions of the RU fans and alumni I know.
Funny how people who ridicule reddit selectively use it as a cudgel when trying to reinforce their point.
Honestly the Reddit CFB people are fairly knowledgeable of the landscape as a whole and understand the challenges we would face with losing recruits to outside schools. Lots of good perspective - definitely one of the better subreddits for sports related talk
The outside perception of Schiano is so bad the likes of Bill Belichick and Urban Meyer, coaches who've won 6 Super Bowls and 3 National Championships respectively, hired him to be an assistant.
Belichick has actively sought to draft and acquire players recruited and developed by Schiano at RU. Three of them have been significant contributors to multiple Super Bowl wins and are an integral part of one of the NFL's best defenses.
I think I'll take their assessment of Schiano's coaching ability over a bunch of trolls masturbating in their parents basements.
I am on that board often. People understand that the big problem is that Rutgers doesn’t keep the best recruits home, but they don’t know some of the unique structural things that cause that like I mentioned.
Yikes. This is the emotional nostalgia (although yours seems to be borderline disturbing) I mentioned earlier. The fact that you're just referring to everyone on reddit as troll who live's in their mom's basement is more telling of you than the posters there.
https://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/...-rutgers-greg-schiano-reunion-fell-apart.html
Rutgers had done everything but stuff balloons in the rafters and book College Avenue for a parade. Midway through last week, school officials had begun making plans for a triumphant press conference, even booking a company to set up a stage on the basketball court at the Rutgers Athletic Center. Invitations would go out to the governor, prominent ex-players and other dignitaries. As they prepared the trumpeting press release, public relations staff members collected glowing, celebratory quotes from prominent former football players.
Greg Schiano was coming back as Rutgers football coach.
Rutgers -- the laughingstock of college football -- finally had gotten it right: It would hire the one man who could negotiate the minefield of New Jersey politics and Rutgers pettiness while also delivering on the field. The Rutgers football program, steeped in shame, scandal and losingsince Schiano left after the 2011 season, would have hope again — immediately vested in the man who took the Scarlet Knights to six bowl games in his final seven years at Rutgers.
In private conversations with friends and confidants, Schiano was already saying “when,” not “if.” Boosters readied their checkbooks. Fans plotted season-ticket purchases and dreamed of recruiting victories, postseason trips and the resumption of the Rutgers-to-NFL pipeline.
But then, something suddenly went wrong.
On Sunday afternoon, Schiano abruptly withdrew his name from consideration. The shocking news was a gut punch to a despondent fan base that believed Schiano was the only hope to resuscitate a team floundering in a 20-game conference losing streak as it prepares to finish its season this Saturday against No. 8-ranked Penn State, another looming Big Ten blowout.
NJ Advance Media has interviewed more than a dozen people with insight into how and why the Schiano-Rutgers marriage never made it to the altar. Many of them spoke on the condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to speak for Schiano or the university — and a few still hold out hope that somehow pressure from fans, alumni and boosters will get a deal done.
They describe a flawed search process driven by an athletic director with an untamed ego, Patrick Hobbs, who did not want Schiano from the start; a university board with sticker shock over Schiano’s significant demands and his brutally critical evaluation of the current program; a powerful businessman and Board of Governors member, Greg Brown, who wanted Schiano as coach but couldn’t navigate the divide; and a university president, Robert Barchi, who is counting the days until he rides off into the sunset next spring.
Schiano, Hobbs and Brown have not commented. Barchi spoke only through a press release on Monday.
In the end, no one seems to know what exactly torpedoed the deal. Was it Hobbs? Was it money? Was it a silly request for use of a private jet that was eventually withdrawn but still used to paint Schiano as greedy and out of touch? Or did all of that conspire to reveal Rutgers’ historical problem -- penny-pinching?
“There were people inside the program and on the Board of Governors who thought the deal was done,’’ said an attorney with knowledge of the nearly three-week negotiations. “Greg was prepared to cave on the one or two remaining sticking points to make it happen."
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Banging the drums for Schiano
When Hobbs fired Chris Ash on Sept. 29, four games into his fourth season, after a 52-0 loss to Michigan that dropped his record to 8-32, many fans celebrated; others wondered what took Hobbs so long. But the move had unintended consequences.
The early dismissal allowed the team’s top players -- quarterback Artur Sitkowski and running back Raheem Blackshear -- to redshirt and sit out the rest of the season, preserving a year of eligibility while depleting an already overmatched roster.
And it led to an immediate drumbeat to bring back Schiano, who had walked away from a job with the New England Patriots in March and was sitting at home in Ohio. He had last coached at Ohio State in 2018 as assistant head coach and defensive coordinator.
Hobbs, according to multiple people familiar with his thinking, had other plans. On Oct. 14, he announced Rutgers had hired a search firm, Ventura Partners, for $88,000, to compile and vet a list of candidates. This is not an uncommon practice, but athletic directors also usually keep a list of candidates for possible high-profile vacancies, and Hobbs had one, too.
Schiano wasn’t on it, according to several people with knowledge of Hobbs’ plans.
Pressure from Brown and other major donors quickly changed that. As Hobbs refrained from commenting to reporters, tailgating fans hoisted signs supporting Schiano’s return, media put Schiano back in headlines and Twitter burned with his mentions. It didn’t take long before Schiano was not only a candidate, but in many ways, the only candidate that had broad support from people around the program who mattered.
Rutgers and Schiano didn’t discuss the vacancy formally, two individuals said, until the week leading into an Oct. 26 game against Liberty – nearly a month after Ash had been fired and Nunzio Campanile installed as interim coach.
Former Tennessee coach and current Alabama assistant Butch Jones met with Hobbs, Brown and Chad Chatlos of the Ventura Partners search firm in Chicago on Nov. 1. Jones eventually withdrew his name from consideration when it became evident that Rutgers was locked on Schiano.
A blueprint for the future
Brown and Hobbs met with Schiano in Columbus, Ohio, on Nov. 5. The five-and-a-half hour conversation was hardly a job interview. Schiano, armed with a binder that contained a 200-page blueprint, spelled out in painstaking detail what he believed he needed to win at Rutgers.
Schiano came prepared with a scouting report of the team’s current roster and told the Rutgers contingent “things they didn’t even know” about what was going on behind the scenes in their program. He outlined what he needed to build a coaching staff and dropped names of potential assistants.
After the deal fell through, some pointed to his criticisms as negativity. Others saw it as a dose of realism that Hobbs and Brown badly needed.
“Greg was all-in,’’ a person familiar with how Schiano presented his vision said. “He had a top-rated New Jersey recruit all lined up, he had commitments on the staff he wanted, he had started working on guys in the transfer portal. And Rutgers’ people were blown away by his plan.’’
Schiano stressed the importance of a massive facilities upgrade. Rutgers officials and Schiano agreed that a structure was needed to replace the outdated indoor practice bubble, but Schiano, according to four individuals, wasn’t satisfied with Rutgers’ plan to upgrade the 32-year-old Hale Center, which received a $1.65 million renovation of the weight room in 2016 and a $4 million locker-room upgrade in August thanks to a gift from Brown.
According to a term sheet obtained by NJ Advance Media, Schiano wanted a new football-only facility “to encompass program‐related functions for dining, strength and conditioning, recruiting operations, team meeting space, and overall football operations’’ and “a dedicated indoor practice facility.'' In addition, the contract called for unspecified "redevelopments to SHI Stadium.’’
The estimated cost for the new facilities and upgrades was $150 million, individuals with knowledge of the plans said. But the demands were not a surprise. When Rutgers hired an outside firm in 2014 to assess the athletic department, its 327-page report said the football stadium was “in a state of disrepair” and that other football facilities were “significantly subpar” compared to other Big Ten programs.
Two Rutgers officials with knowledge of the talks said it was a steep price tag for a university that recently completed the $115 million RWJ Barnabas Health Athletic Performance Center and is constructing the $65 million Rodkin Academic Success Center.
Those facilities are being financed with a mixture of privately raised funds, naming-rights deals, tax credits and loans, and it wasn’t immediately clear how Rutgers planned to pay for another $150 million in projects.
Board of Governors members, who would be required to sign off on Schiano’s contract, already were feeling pinched -- and the $12 million needed to buy out Ash and his staff didn’t help.
"I think Greg Brown negotiated with (Schiano) thinking he could walk into that Board with (chair) Mark Angelson also on board to hire him,'' a longtime Rutgers booster with knowledge of the Board’s actions said. "And I think the (other Board members) said, ‘You told us that Chris Ash was the guy just recently. And now we owe those guys $12 million? You want another $32 million (for Schiano), plus almost $8 million (for the assistant coaches), plus an $85 million practice facility and a $45 million football building?' I just think it was too much to swallow.''
Schiano, meanwhile, believed he needed all this to win.
“When you’re going into any situation, you know where the hurdles or the detours are," said Mike Miello, Schiano’s coach at Ramapo High. “But when you’re going into a situation as challenging as this one, you have to make sure they give you everything you believe you need to succeed. He knows that one or two things can completely sabotage your ability to win.”
Despite the board’s flinching, Schiano still had a powerful ally who wanted to get the deal done: Brown, according to people close to Brown.
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The final sticking points
In two and a half weeks following that Nov. 5 meeting, many of the key obstacles were cleared. Schiano backed off several of his demands, and Brown -- according to multiple people on both sides -- believed the coach and the university had come close enough to strike an agreement.
But there were still issues. Rutgers offered Schiano a six-year contract for $24 million. The $4 million annual salary would’ve been the highest in Rutgers history, significantly more than Ash’s $2.3 million this season, but still 10th in the 14-team Big Ten.
Schiano, aware of the team's historic troubles, pushed for an eight-year contract at the same $4 million annual salary. He wanted the additional two years because it would be a sign of stability that could benefit recruiting, said people with knowledge of his thinking. More important to Schiano, they said, was the commitment to salaries for assistants and staff, and the two sides agreed on an initial salary pool of $7.7 million for the 10 assistant coaches and other support-staff members.
"Greg relinquished a significant amount of his salary into the coaching pool,'' a person familiar with the Schiano side of the negotiations said.
There was a growing sense from both sides that a deal was nearing completion on Tuesday, Nov. 19.
But the following day, two Rutgers officials said, Schiano came back through his agent with a counteroffer. While it included the same salary demands for Schiano and his staff, a new term sheet included the addition of private-jet travel for “all recruiting activities, and for program- and university‐related travel,” as well as specific time requirements on the facilities upgrades.
One board member, who requested anonymity because the university’s policy prohibits members to speak on board matters, said the private-jets haggle could’ve been avoided with better communication to the board. The board member pointed out that the majority of other Big Ten coaches have a provision in their respective contracts for private-jets use and said Hobbs never gave the board an opportunity to ask questions, such as whether Schiano’s private-jet use would be privately financed.
NJ Advance Media reported in 2018 that records showed Ash and various football assistants flew on five Unity Jets flights from December 2016 through June 2017. Rutgers officials said the flights were paid for through funds privately raised via the Rutgers University Foundation and transferred to the university’s athletics department for the purpose of recruiting.
“Some amount of private charter travel is common at all Power Five (conference) institutions,” Hobbs told NJ Advance Media at the time. "We are fortunate and grateful to have a dedicated group of donors who provide the funds to make these services available to our coaches. Our coaches are very mindful of the need to use all available resources wisely, institutional or donor provided.”
Rutgers’ offer had included a facilities pledge without deadlines. According to the term sheet sent to Rutgers on Wednesday, Nov. 20, Schiano asked for an escape clause from his contract if Rutgers didn’t begin construction for the football complex and indoor practice facility before Jan. 31, 2022, or have both facilities move-in ready before June 30, 2023.
Rutgers balked. A lawyer familiar with Rutgers’ side of the negotiations questioned whether the escape-clause language tied to facilities would be legally binding. By the end of last week, people with knowledge of the negotiations said, Schiano withdrew the demand and had backed away from use of the jet for his family, which eventually became a demand Rutgers used to paint Schiano as greedy.
Rutgers, however, didn’t acknowledge Schiano’s capitulations, never made a counteroffer and began its search for a Plan B candidate, according to two people familiar with the search. Schiano, sensing Rutgers had walked away when there was no further communication, withdrew his name.
As social media chuckles that “Rutgers gonna Rutgers,” the university will celebrate the 150th anniversary of the first college football game between Rutgers and Princeton with another humiliating season, a botched attempt to hire its top coaching candidate, and angry boosters and fans calling for Hobbs to be fired.
“Back in Columbus, they all agreed to the four pillars of the terms,’’ a person familiar with the Schiano side of the negotiations said. “Then Rutgers started to renege on some of those things and Greg made concession after concession.’’
Rutgers officials believe the opposite is true.
“I hope people realize that it takes two to tango,’’ a longtime Rutgers booster with knowledge of the Board of Governors’ thinking said. “Rutgers (was) being more than generous.’’
‘He’s an unemployed football coach …’
NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
Former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (l to r), Rutgers Athletic Director Pat Hobbs and Christie's wife Mary Pat watch a video tribute to former Scarlet Knights head coach Greg Schiano during the September 2017 game between Rutgers and Ohio State.
News that Schiano had pulled out rocked a fan base that had prepared to celebrate his homecoming. Meanwhile, Rutgers officials anonymously floated the notion that Schiano wasn’t committed to the job.
That same sentiment was echoed a day later when Chris Christie, the former governor and a Hobbs ally who appointed him ombudsman to his office during the Bridgegate scandal, blasted Schiano during a symposium for lawyers in Iselin.
“He’s not Bear Bryant. He’s not Urban Meyer," Christie said. "He’s an unemployed football coach who now wants the taxpayers of the state of New Jersey to pay for his private air travel. The governor doesn’t get private air travel. I know it. I flew commercial all the time. For him to demand that for not only him but his family, I’m sorry, you’ve got to draw the line somewhere.”
But Christie appears to be in the overwhelming minority in siding with Hobbs and Rutgers. Many prominent donors told NJ Advance Media — and Rutgers — that their checkbooks were closed now that Hobbs has failed to land Schiano. Former players, including Eric LeGrand, railed against the administration on social media.
“It’s just incredibly frustrating, and I know there are a lot of other former players who feel the same way,'' former quarterback Ryan Hart said. “We were on the one-yard line. You have seen the outrage in social media. The only way Rutgers can be successful is bringing back somebody like Greg Schiano. We are trying not to allow one or two people to decide this.''
The one person with the power to get Schiano signed, university president Robert Barchi, gave Hobbs a vote of confidence on Monday as the storm raged. Barchi insisted that the search was ongoing and that he was confident Hobbs would “find the right coach for this transformative job.”
A press conference to announce the new coach will be held after the season, Barchi said.
It’s just not the one everybody expected.
Nice job Pat.
Fair enough - out of curiosity what do you think is the number one unique issue Rutgers faces in keeping talent home? Just genuinely curious. In my opinion it's the public perception of Rutgers as a university in the state of NJ. I grew up knowing Rutgers as glorified community college. If you didn't get into your first choice then Rutgers was your fall back. Obviously that's not true, but I think the University as a whole has done a horrible job marketing all that it offers.
Even there lots of anti-Hobbs posts from RU fans and fans of other schools.
The guy is a dope. Forget Greg. He hired Ash, couldn't fire him, couldn't do the 150th, made moronic scheduling moves, and finally fired Ash late with no plan.
Whatever you want to say about GS his track record crushes Hobbs' as low a bar as that is.
The guy is a dope. Forget Greg. He hired Ash, couldn't fire him, couldn't do the 150th, made moronic scheduling moves, and finally fired Ash late with no plan.
Whatever you want to say about GS his track record crushes Hobbs' as low a bar as that is.
I totally agree with your point, but there are a lot of others. For example-
As I mentioned, the top recruits leave their home town public school friends to go to a parochial HS, so it isn’t easy to sell state loyalty to get them to stay home at Rutgers.
Geography- these kids are treated like they are special because of their athletic prowess, it is hard to feel like going to a school 30 minutes from your house is that special.
a lot of it is just needing the tipping point of winning. It is easy to say that NJ kids should take the risk to build a winner, but how did that work out for the kids who believed Ash or Flood? It was smart of Schiano to go Florida heavy in recruiting to build the winning and no coincidence our best NJ recruiting was after we established ourselves as a winning program
etc.
This is where I come down on things. We've either been a shitshow, in a crap conference or both most of everyone's lives. We simply don't know what it would mean for recruiting if we had a somewhat competent coach combined with a real conference/exposure. I tend to think it would mean we'd do fairly well, but I don't know that anyone will live long enough to see that combination.
All makes sense. To your last point - this area loves a winner. If you're not winning you aren't worth anything in NJ, regardless of how you're trending or what you can offer. I think the biggest piece for our next coach will be national recruiting to start out, because like you mentioned NJ recruiting will pick up once we show we're a competitive option again. When I was in Arizona and had Rutgers gear on people were surprisingly complimentary of the school because they'd only ever heard good things about it academically.
Both sides in a negotiation are going to reach for the moon if they can gain leverage. Some of you take things personally as to what came out of the talks. The bottom line is Rutgers should have never released a statement smearing Schiano. They just make their job that much harder. The coaching ranks is a small fraternity, and they will stand together rather than give in to Rutgers. The fallout will be the coaches Rutgers are targeting will now have second thoughts. Word has spread quickly in what to expect when dealing with Rutgers. It will be a protest to how Rutgers handled the situation. Had Rutgers just said, "thanks, but no thanks," they would have more coaches available to interview. This is what some of you Schiano-haters didn't see in the big picture of things.
My take as well. I was never a Schiano only guy but the way we handled the fallout was the end for me.
Clearly you didn't read any of the posts. Everyone is in agreement that private jet travel isn't unheard of and probably wasn't the hangup.
That’s what I have focused on in some of my comments about Hobbs. He couldn’t just say no to Schiano, he had to try to orchestrate the spin to neutralize the Schiano lobby (with the “he really didn’t want it” message) and it has blown up in his face.
Exactly. Another stupid thread that has zero understanding of what the vast majority of the RU fanbase thinks.
I like GS and think he could turn around the program. He is older, wiser and has studied under some of the best minds in CFB and NFL. I believe him when he knows what RU needs to create a winning team. On our side, after the Tennessee fiasco Greg needs us as well to allow him to resurrect him as a HC. It really is a match made in heaven and I hope we can get him back to the table.
If for some reason it doesn't work with GS I think we would need to take a big risk(just like we did with GS 1st go), and Try to get the Campanile Brothers to coach the team. I Know the excuse is they don't have enough HC experience but Both Nunzio and Anthony have HC experience at the HS level at Nationally Ranked NJ Parochial Schools. That has to count for something. Literally the entire Campanile family is involved with NJ HS football. It is absolutely a risk but I am tired of seeing Midwest yolkels come to NJ and collect a huge paycheck with no improvement and then skip off into the sunset. Lets keep it in the family and give two young coaches a shot. We just may be pleasantly surprised at what they can do.
BTW the Campaniles have more than just money on their minds. The entire family has made a commitment to NJ football. If there is anyone who can recruit the top HS talent Rutgers needs to compete in the BIG it is the Campaniles. If Schiano doesn't work lets bring home the Jersey Boys.
it was an awful look for Rutgers and Hobbs, why would you smear the most successful coach in the existence of the program without which you wouldnt even be in the Big 10.
The outrage about not hiring Schiano is not limited to wanting him as coach ... but who is the alternative?
people want to argue Schiano is flawed, overrated etc? Fine.
how many fan bases would be excited to have Hafley; Campanile, Adazio etc hired? How many names when they get announced will other fan bases react by saying RU got it right or is doing something interesting here.
The Plan B guys, as a group don't even make articles talking about coaching pools for vacancies.
Compared to Plan B options; Schiano is clearly the best. Compared to coaching options not being considered .... well, maybe there is better.
people want to argue Schiano is flawed, overrated etc? Fine.
how many fan bases would be excited to have Hafley; Campanile, Adazio etc hired? How many names when they get announced will other fan bases react by saying RU got it right or is doing something interesting here.
The Plan B guys, as a group don't even make articles talking about coaching pools for vacancies.
Compared to Plan B options; Schiano is clearly the best. Compared to coaching options not being considered .... well, maybe there is better.
our plan bs are are all assistant coach candidates elsewhere.....fact
thats what makes Hobbs even more of an embarrassment as he rushes to meet with the team and tell them they will have a coach in a week, he is a disgrace
I keep hearing from some posters that there are bigger and better fish in the sea. Where are they and why haven't they been approached?
1) Rutgers is a clusterf*ck
2) Rutgers isn't serious about supporting sports
3) After how the Schiano smear campaign made Rutgers look small, who the hell would work for this company?
4) Only coordinators have an interest and some of them may not want to associate their rep with Rutgers. Oh, wait we don't want any more coordinators.
And for those who believe Schiano's name is mud outside of Rutgers is lying to himself. Hating the man is one thing, but show me where others genuinely have a terrible perception of him? Opinion and facts are two different things. Funny how his past wasn't a problem when he was mentioned for the Michigan job. Tampa didn't have a problem. Ohio State did see a problem. Only after Tenn. idiots b*tched did other fools hitch their wagon to the opinion. New England hired him without a problem after a few idiots tried to ruin the man's rep.
1) Rutgers is a clusterf*ck
2) Rutgers isn't serious about supporting sports
3) After how the Schiano smear campaign made Rutgers look small, who the hell would work for this company?
4) Only coordinators have an interest and some of them may not want to associate their rep with Rutgers. Oh, wait we don't want any more coordinators.
And for those who believe Schiano's name is mud outside of Rutgers is lying to himself. Hating the man is one thing, but show me where others genuinely have a terrible perception of him? Opinion and facts are two different things. Funny how his past wasn't a problem when he was mentioned for the Michigan job. Tampa didn't have a problem. Ohio State did see a problem. Only after Tenn. idiots b*tched did other fools hitch their wagon to the opinion. New England hired him without a problem after a few idiots tried to ruin the man's rep.
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Umm. Tampa paid him $8 million to never come back and his players were all on record saying he was terrible to work and play for there.