For all those who know basketball

RU677381

Senior
Apr 21, 2010
397
640
45
Please explain to me why Pikiell permits Mathis to always go to the
hole regardless of how many opponents are in the way. I cannot
understand why he continues to selfishly try to score. It is no
wonder that he misses so many shots......clearly every opponent knows
he is never going to pass.
 

RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
30,150
29,569
113
Please explain to me why Pikiell permits Mathis to always go to the
hole regardless of how many opponents are in the way. I cannot
understand why he continues to selfishly try to score. It is no
wonder that he misses so many shots......clearly every opponent knows
he is never going to pass.

Your tripping over a guy who took 3 shots in fifteen minutes with zero turn overs and got to the line once.

Meanwhile McConnell who is our worst scorer is leading the team in shot attempts...

And even in this slump Mathis still is a more efficient scorer on the year by a sizable margin
 
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PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
14,490
13,829
78
Your tripping over a guy who took 3 shots in fifteen minutes with zero turn overs and got to the line once.

Meanwhile McConnell who is our worst scorer is leading the team in shot attempts...

And even in this slump Mathis still is a more efficient scorer on the year by a sizable margin

I’m just curious - do you actually believe Caleb is a ball hog? I mean seriously do you just completely disregard movement without the ball to get open as a non-factor in the shooting volume? Montez was stuffed time and time again by the Michigan screens. When he was in the game he was unable to provide any help whatsoever on the ball rotations let alone get open in a position to make a shooting play.
 
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RUby RED

All-Conference
Aug 9, 2010
1,857
2,683
0
Your tripping over a guy who took 3 shots in fifteen minutes with zero turn overs and got to the line once.

Meanwhile McConnell who is our worst scorer is leading the team in shot attempts...

And even in this slump Mathis still is a more efficient scorer on the year by a sizable margin
Are you really trying to argue that Mathis brings more to the table than Caleb right now?
 
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RUJMM78

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
26,351
12,651
113
Fans keep wanting to find fault with particular players lack of scoring.Its a recruiting problem that is shown on the court with missed layups, foul shots and 3 pointers.Pikiell is trying to grind out wins by holding opponents to less than 65 points.Against the top tier B1G teams the lack of scoring is too much to overcome.Rutgers hopefully will win at least two remaining games which will ensure a NCAA bid which is a achievement long in happening and the team should be complimented.
 

RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
30,150
29,569
113
I’m just curious - do you actually believe Caleb is a ball hog? I mean seriously do you just completely disregard movement without the ball to get open as a non-factor in the shooting volume? Montez was stuffed time and time again by the Michigan screens. When he was in the game he was unable to provide any help whatsoever on the ball rotations let alone get open in a position to make a shooting play.

I never said Caleb is a ball hog.

I said he takes too many shots and he’s the least efficient scorer in our 8 man rotation.
 

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
14,490
13,829
78
I never said Caleb is a ball hog.

I said he takes too many shots and he’s the least efficient scorer in our 8 man rotation.

But it’s not true that he looks to shoot. His shooting volume stats reflect a large number of low percentage bail out shots taken deep in the shot clock when nobody else on the floor has been able to get open to accept a pass in a position to make a play. if he doesn’t shoot many of those possessions would almost certainly be turnovers. How can you straight up compare those percentages to Mathis’ early shooting numbers when Ron was on fire freeing up the open kick out. That shot isn’t there for him anymore. It’s apples and oranges.
 

RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
30,150
29,569
113
He’s averaging 4.1ppg on 29% shooting over his last 11. In that stretch he’s averaging nearly 4 turnovers for every assist. He has been bad by any measure recently

I’m not saying Caleb’s been a world beater but he’s offered more offensively while also bringing better energy of late

Most of that time Mathis has been relegated to play with Paul/mconnell/Cliff.

McConnell shooting 32.9% during the same time with way more shot volume.
 

RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
30,150
29,569
113
But it’s not true that he looks to shoot. His shooting volume stats reflect a large number of low percentage bail out shots taken deep in the shot clock when nobody else on the floor has been able to get open to accept a pass in a position to make a play. if he doesn’t shoot many of those possessions would almost certainly be turnovers. How can you straight up compare those percentages to Mathis’ early shooting numbers when Ron was on fire freeing up the open kick out. That shot isn’t there for him anymore. It’s apples and oranges.

“But it’s not true that he looks to shoot”

Bro you’re a broken record lol I never said that I said he’s taking too many shots and he’s our worst efg% on the team.

Glad you brought up Ron he was much better when playing more minutes with young and Mathis
 

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
14,490
13,829
78
I’m not saying Caleb’s been a world beater but he’s offered more offensively while also bringing better energy of late

RHJ has been a completely different player from early on unfortunately. If he’s a 25+ point threat it changes the whole landscape of the offense. Guaranteed Caleb wouldn’t be shooting anywhere near his volumes if RHJ was connecting more as it just frees others up. Without Caleb or Paul in the game, the offensive rotations have become a mess. The problem with Paul is his hesitancy to shoot can be a liability. Too many passes directly to the opponent when he should’ve done what Caleb does and at least try to make a shooting play.
 

bethlehemfan

Heisman
Sep 6, 2003
15,436
16,995
113
Montez can create matchup problems. His blown fast breaks are tough to watch but he also plays good defense and he’s not really that selfish imo. He doesn’t just jack up contested shots or out of rhythm shots for the most part. He has one controllable thing to do to elevate his game and that is to dish off the drive. I think he has to play through it. The athleticism is there. He’s also won some games for us and hit huge shots at times. I would definitely keep playing him.
 

fluoxetine

Heisman
Nov 11, 2012
23,529
16,898
0
Montez can create matchup problems. His blown fast breaks are tough to watch but he also plays good defense and he’s not really that selfish imo. He doesn’t just jack up contested shots or out of rhythm shots for the most part. He has one controllable thing to do to elevate his game and that is to dish off the drive. I think he has to play through it. The athleticism is there. He’s also won some games for us and hit huge shots at times. I would definitely keep playing him.

Yeah I don't really think the problem is "selfishness". I mean even if he was playing only for his own stats presumably he'd rather have assists than endless missed layups. But either way he seriously needs to learn to stop charging into traffic the way he does.

I mean Jacob Young was the same way at the beginning of last year and has learned to control it.
 
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Shell21

Heisman
Mar 23, 2004
38,010
26,828
113
So would the best option to be put Tez and Jacob back in the starting lineup again with Geo Ron and Myles ? Jacob def deserves to start again and maybe that would get tez going ? Problem is you don’t have a lot of passing in that group that Paul would maybe provide .
 

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
14,490
13,829
78
He’s averaging 4.1ppg on 29% shooting over his last 11. In that stretch he’s averaging nearly 4 turnovers for every assist. He has been bad by any measure recently

I’m not saying Caleb’s been a world beater but he’s offered more offensively while also bringing better energy of late
“But it’s not true that he looks to shoot”

Bro you’re a broken record lol I never said that I said he’s taking too many shots and he’s our worst efg% on the team.

Glad you brought up Ron he was much better when playing more minutes with young and Mathis

The point is Caleb is shooting because nobody else (Mathis included) is getting open. The offense was dreadful in the 11 minutes he went to the bench (which is telling considering he plays for his defense.

Tez BPM was -11.8 yesterday. Worst on the team by far. Caleb was +5.8 while leading the team in rebounds and steals. It has nothing to do with who they were playing with. Pike mixed and matched the rotations the whole game. Nothing worked and without Caleb in there we couldn’t get a shot off period.
 

RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
30,150
29,569
113
The point is Caleb is shooting because nobody else (Mathis included) is getting open. The offense was dreadful in the 11 minutes he went to the bench (which is telling considering he plays for his defense.

Tez BPM was -11.8 yesterday. Worst on the team by far. Caleb was +5.8 while leading the team in rebounds and steals. It has nothing to do with who they were playing with. Pike mixed and matched the rotations the whole game. Nothing worked and without Caleb in there we couldn’t get a shot off period.

Tez didn’t play well again but I disagree it has nothing to do with rotations the evidence is stark looking at performance from start of year to now
 

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
14,490
13,829
78
So would the best option to be put Tez and Jacob back in the starting lineup again with Geo Ron and Myles ? Jacob def deserves to start again and maybe that would get tez going ? Problem is you don’t have a lot of passing in that group that Paul would maybe provide .

Until the transition game can get going again somehow, the JY / Tez / Geo 1-2-3 line up figures to be our nemesis. Worst combo for halfcourt ball distribution. To play that line up again, we need to be able to speed up the game again and finish when doing so. Since the first Iowa loss, we’ve been unsuccessful at this and this line up is a nightmare as a result.
 

richthedentist

All-American
Aug 2, 2001
11,343
9,002
113
I never said Caleb is a ball hog.

I said he takes too many shots and he’s the least efficient scorer in our 8 man rotation.
Because no one is doing anything and he had to take a lot of shots last night as the clock was winding down which is a function of our nonexistent ball movement. Caleb and JY are our best pure shooters and Montez is not even in the same conversation as Caleb
 

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
14,490
13,829
78
Tez didn’t play well again but I disagree it has nothing to do with rotations the evidence is stark looking at performance from start of year to now

The drop in offense has to do with 2 things:

1) drop off in transition play. No idea why this happened but it occurred with JY and Tez still in the starting line up. It wasn’t competition level - starting with Michigan State we just couldn’t seem to beat teams down the court and finish off their misses anymore the way we did early (Against Illinois, Iowa, Syracuse, Maryland, etc.). Still don’t understand what happened there.

2) teams figured out how to defend our perimeter game better.

Without success on 1, Tez becomes a much less effective player than he was earlier. Caleb and Paul are better halfcourt players because they are much better passers and move better without the ball. We had to try something different after 5 games of no success trying to beat opponents down the floor. When / if we figure out how to speed up a game successfully again Tez will once again thrive. He’s very limited in what he can do for us until then though.
 
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PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
14,490
13,829
78
What is the evidence that Caleb is our best shooter?

He’s not. Unfortunately, he happens to be one of our better players at moving without the ball. The issue is figuring out better offensive schemes to get our better shooters open and feed the paint.
 

mikeyoc

All-Conference
Apr 19, 2005
1,250
1,238
113
Yes. Missing threes is a fundamentally different thing than making stupid plays. Harper's issues are well documented but I'm not sure what you want him to do about it; he just misses. He hasn't been taking bad threes, at least not often.
Harper was catching and shooting uncontested 3s through the first
8 games or so. Then the other teams went to the vidoetape
and made a point of telling whomever was responsible for
guarding him to start denying him those open looks. It happens
 
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RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
30,150
29,569
113
Ditto Jacob Young by the way. He’s 29% for his career and not a good FT shooter.

Jacob Young efg over .500 best of his career and best asst% of his career.

Best raw fg% of his career best 3pt shooting (40%) for his career.

Get out lol
 
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fluoxetine

Heisman
Nov 11, 2012
23,529
16,898
0
Jacob Young efg over .500 best of his career and best asst% of his career.

Best raw fg% of his career best 3pt shooting (40%) for his career.

Get out lol

He's 23/57.

He may actually be our best shooter FWIW but he's not going to continue at 40%.
 

YoucancallmeRay

All-Conference
Nov 3, 2015
1,790
1,905
113
Please explain to me why Pikiell permits Mathis to always go to the
hole regardless of how many opponents are in the way. I cannot
understand why he continues to selfishly try to score. It is no
wonder that he misses so many shots......clearly every opponent knows
he is never going to pass.
This is a good question. Mathis has hurt the team recently, which is why Pike has cut his minutes. Mathis' decision making is his biggest problem, imo. He is limited offensively, apparently being unwilling or unable to pull up for jump shots, so he reverts to driving to the hoop and not passing off. He is not a good passer overall and his defensive is ok, not great. My criticism of Pike is that he hasn't allowed our freshmen, Mag and Oskar, to develop enough so that he could give them some of Mathis' minutes. As a result, he's riding with Mathis since he needs bodies to give Geo, Caleb, and Paul a rest.
 

BillyC80

Heisman
Oct 23, 2006
17,329
15,885
72
I think Mathis shot selection is in question. Just drive down the middle and hoist up. What happened to his 3 pt attempts like early in the season?
This. Good shot selection, by every player, is the essence of a potentially successful offense. I say potentially because the shots have to go in, but as a coach you want to see good shot selection.

The maddening thing about Tez is that despite being a terrible foul shooter, he seems to be looking to get fouled every time he drives, so much so that he’s developed a habit of falling down every time, I assume in an attempt to get a foul called. Looking to get fouled takes his focus off of making the shot, so he misses a lot, or gets it blocked.

Meanwhile guys like Harper and McConnell tend to take better shots. Sure, I wish they’d make more of them, but when a good shot presents itself you have to take it, which is always preferable to forcing up a bad shot.
 
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RU_DIO

Heisman
Sep 1, 2002
17,439
18,116
113
Harper was catching and shooting uncontested 3s through the first
8 games or so. Then the other teams went to the vidoetape
and made a point of telling whomever was responsible for
guarding him to start denying him those open looks. It happens

Harper has missed a ton of open threes in rythym. In fact, he has missed a good amount of layups recently. Not sure if it's mental or physical with him but I assume it's mental at this time.
 

mikebal9

All-Conference
Oct 15, 2005
5,740
4,985
113
All these stats being quoted here. The OP is making a simple statement, but I'll make it simpler. Montez blows more layups and shots inside of 3 feet than anyone I've ever seen. Why does he continue to go to the basket when it's not there for him?
It has nothing to do with comparing his shooting percentage to anyone else's. He doesn't know when to pull it out and reset.
 
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RUDead

All-Conference
Sep 20, 2017
3,655
3,840
0
The point is Caleb is shooting because nobody else (Mathis included) is getting open. The offense was dreadful in the 11 minutes he went to the bench (which is telling considering he plays for his defense.

Tez BPM was -11.8 yesterday. Worst on the team by far. Caleb was +5.8 while leading the team in rebounds and steals. It has nothing to do with who they were playing with. Pike mixed and matched the rotations the whole game. Nothing worked and without Caleb in there we couldn’t get a shot off period.

Exactly. Caleb was working to get a lot of good looks. Need more of that from the rest of the team.
 

PSAL_Hoops

Heisman
Feb 18, 2008
14,490
13,829
78
All these stats being quoted here. The OP is making a simple statement, but I'll make it simpler. Montez blows more layups and shots inside of 3 feet than anyone I've ever seen. Why does he continue to go to the basket when it's not there for him?
It has nothing to do with comparing his shooting percentage to anyone else's. He doesn't know when to pull it out and reset.

Nails it. And the stats are even more meaningless when you realize that the reason Tez has been taking those shots is that he doesn’t move well enough in the halfcourt sets to get open to attempt any other shots. I’d love to see a resurrection of our transition game. It would make us a dangerous out in the tourney - and yes, if we play fast, his streaky 3 point shooting on the kick out passes could be huge. But until (if ever) we start finishing the run outs more consistently, playing this style just isn’t possible as it digs too many holes - as in double digit deficits because we can’t seem to get back fast enough on the misses to prevent transition the other way. What we really need by NCAA time would be an improvement on transition play and a blend of styles throughout the games.
 

NewJerseyHawk

Heisman
Jan 11, 2007
24,915
40,034
113
Tez didn’t play well again but I disagree it has nothing to do with rotations the evidence is stark looking at performance from start of year to now

Should Mathis play over Mulcahy in your stat filled (limited) analysis??

Mathis in almost 3 years has no mid range shot, no jump stop to pass or shoot and no handle to create space to pass or shoot. Mathis thrives and gets by solely because he's quicker and more athletic than most players but without the footwork or additional work put in on this aspect of his game, he's nowhere near as complete as a player as Caleb.

I am not a coach but there are fundamentals that kids learn at a younger age and if you don't develop those items earlier, it limits what you can do against legitimate competition. Mathis has had to rebuild his entire shot mechanics and release point and has worked on his footwork to get himself balanced to shoot 3s, but he needs another offseason to get into the Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan film lab of drop step, jump stop, mid range, turn, square up and pivot, pass, create and generate space to shoot over players.

Harper and Caleb and Geo have tremendous ability to know how to pivot, turn, square and shoot and Geo has put in the work and handle to dribble and learn how to create space to shoot over a defender from 3 or from mid range.

Mathis does not offer that ability to handle the ball off the dribble, isn't efficient with his left hand as he is going to his right and will benefit by adding these layers to his game....

It takes hours, weeks, months to get that footwork, balance and form to make those plays......he probably needs to stay and work very hard this summer on also working on his handle and having his head up, so he can see teammates that are open, vs driving into open space and then just using his athletic ability to jump and then figure out how to get the ball to the hoop......he doesn't actually know how far away or how close he is to the basket (with his head down) until he jumps, then looks and tries to improvise all in one motion, while hanging in the air....which is why he misses what are seemingly easy layups....if your head is down driving to the hoop, you might as well play blindfolded.

Can Mathis improve....absolutely....

Can you correct something or shooting mechanics, 3 point shooting, foul shooting, ball handling to become am emergency backup PG all in a span of 1 off season.....?? Probably not....

He fixed the mechanics from frosh to soph year and then worked very hard on the 3 point shot, since he's a good driver, it made sense to work on the shooting aspect, since teams will play off him, knowing he's more of a slasher/driver.

He has to put the work in on the other basics, but Caleb is a more complete player fundamentally right now....those basics Caleb has eliminates the crazy turnovers and missed layups, despite Caleb not being the athlete and leader that Mathis is.

Stats and other things don't replace common sense or the eye test. Mathis starting may hide some of these gaps but if you start him, it's not over Caleb, it would be over Mulcahy.......

BUT if you remove Mulcahy, will Myles get the amount of touches he should??? Will Mathis actually see him open when he drives???
 
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