Flu to Covid 19 Deaths

Jeffreauxdawg

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Dec 15, 2017
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I read through the CDC's website the other day and they were rather vague as to how many annual flu deaths actually tested positive for the flu... Turns out not very many.

ER Doctor in Boston writes that he started hearing everyone talk about the number of flu deaths every year and he realized that throughout his career he only had one case of flu die and it was a pediatric. Statistically he should have seen many, many, more since the annual flu death totals are supposedly in line or greater than gunshots, opiods, and auto accidents. Which he saw all of the time. So he started digging:

I decided to call colleagues around the country who work in other emergency departments and in intensive care units to ask a simple question: how many patients could they remember dying from the flu? Most of the physicians I surveyed couldn’t remember a single one over their careers. Some said they recalled a few. All of them seemed to be having the same light bulb moment I had already experienced: For too long, we have blindly accepted a statistic that does not match our clinical experience.

Turns out the CDC dramatically overestimates confirmed flu deaths an "average six times greater than the number of flu deaths that are actually confirmed." It got me thinking, I have had friends and family members die of everything under the sun.. several from gunshots and auto accidents. Never once from the flu or pneumonia.

The author is biased, who isn't these days... But this little bit explains why healthcare workers were getting overwhelmed...

Can we accurately compare the toll of the flu to the toll of the coronavirus pandemic?

To do this, we have to compare counted deaths to counted deaths, not counted deaths to wildly inflated statistical estimates. If we compare, for instance, the number of people who died in the United States from COVID-19 in the second full week of April to the number of people who died from influenza during the worst week of the past seven flu seasons (as reported to the CDC), we find that the novel coronavirus killed between 9.5 and 44 times more people than seasonal flu. In other words, the coronavirus is not anything like the flu: It is much, much worse.

From this perspective, the data on coronavirus and flu actually match—rather than flying in the face of—our lived reality in the coronavirus pandemic: hospitals in hot spots stretched to their limits and, in New York City in particular, so many dead that the bodies are stacked in refrigerator trucks. We have never seen such conditions.


Anyway... I can't remember anyone get the flu and actually dying in my circles.

Interesting read.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing-covid-19-deaths-to-flu-deaths-is-like-comparing-apples-to-oranges/
 

bruiser.sixpack

Redshirt
Aug 13, 2009
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He is right. Just like there is no possible way to claim many deaths attributed to Covid 19 cannot be attributed to something else.
 

Jeffreauxdawg

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Dec 15, 2017
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He is right. Just like there is no possible way to claim many deaths attributed to Covid 19 cannot be attributed to something else.

If they are in the hospital coughing, fever, on a ventilator, test positive for Covid 19, odds are pretty good they didn't die from a gunshot wound.
 

Jeffreauxdawg

All-American
Dec 15, 2017
8,891
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I read through the CDC's website the other day and they were rather vague as to how many annual flu deaths actually tested positive for the flu... Turns out not very many.

ER Doctor in Boston writes that he started hearing everyone talk about the number of flu deaths every year and he realized that throughout his career he only had one case of flu die and it was a pediatric. Statistically he should have seen many, many, more since the annual flu death totals are supposedly in line or greater than gunshots, opiods, and auto accidents. Which he saw all of the time. So he started digging:

I decided to call colleagues around the country who work in other emergency departments and in intensive care units to ask a simple question: how many patients could they remember dying from the flu? Most of the physicians I surveyed couldn’t remember a single one over their careers. Some said they recalled a few. All of them seemed to be having the same light bulb moment I had already experienced: For too long, we have blindly accepted a statistic that does not match our clinical experience.

Turns out the CDC dramatically overestimates confirmed flu deaths an "average six times greater than the number of flu deaths that are actually confirmed." It got me thinking, I have had friends and family members die of everything under the sun.. several from gunshots and auto accidents. Never once from the flu or pneumonia.

The author is biased, who isn't these days... But this little bit explains why healthcare workers were getting overwhelmed...

Can we accurately compare the toll of the flu to the toll of the coronavirus pandemic?

To do this, we have to compare counted deaths to counted deaths, not counted deaths to wildly inflated statistical estimates. If we compare, for instance, the number of people who died in the United States from COVID-19 in the second full week of April to the number of people who died from influenza during the worst week of the past seven flu seasons (as reported to the CDC), we find that the novel coronavirus killed between 9.5 and 44 times more people than seasonal flu. In other words, the coronavirus is not anything like the flu: It is much, much worse.

From this perspective, the data on coronavirus and flu actually match—rather than flying in the face of—our lived reality in the coronavirus pandemic: hospitals in hot spots stretched to their limits and, in New York City in particular, so many dead that the bodies are stacked in refrigerator trucks. We have never seen such conditions.


Anyway... I can't remember anyone get the flu and actually dying in my circles.

Interesting read.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing-covid-19-deaths-to-flu-deaths-is-like-comparing-apples-to-oranges/



ETA. Ho Lee Chit... Didn't know so many of you worked for the CDC or vaccine companies. Flamers gonna flame when you put a little data out there.
 

DAWG61

Redshirt
Feb 26, 2008
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Nah nobody read it including myself. Everyone is over saturated with Corona info right now and your post is way too long.
 
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Hubcitydog

Redshirt
Dec 18, 2013
100
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This is 17ing dumb. This is some of the most made up stats ******** ever. Covid is across the board worse than the flu. It is much worse on the elderly than the flu - the numbers say that but I could rely on a small sample size and tell you that with confidence. Not many people are arguing that. The numbers also say that it is not as bad or about as bad as the flu in those under 60 (much less mortality in kids than the flu, same-ish in 50’s). Again, numbers say that and anecdotally that’s all consistent. What is this dude’s point behind his made up numbers? If one wants to incite panic I’d like to know their motivations and their plan.
and if he hasn’t seen someone die from the flu, he doesn’t ever venture up from the er to the icu. It happens every year, but it’s not like this. No one is saying it’s the same, but I will gladly argue that it is closer to the flu than whatever boogeyman we have turned it into.
 
Last edited:
Nov 16, 2005
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People don’t like it when they read something that’s outside the picture they’ve painted in their minds about this whole situation. It’s thought provoking and I’m not a big fan of the “it’s no worse than the flu” argument BUT there’s so much we don’t know about this virus still, mainly who the hell has had it or has it right now because we can’t test enough.

I think the death rate is far lower than the estimate simply because there’s so many unaccounted people that are asymptomatic or had it and had very minor symptoms.
 

Pars

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Oct 11, 2015
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Wait...
Did you say YOU have known several people die of a gunshot wound?
 

bruiser.sixpack

Redshirt
Aug 13, 2009
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If they are in the hospital coughing, fever, on a ventilator, test positive for Covid 19, odds are pretty good they didn't die from a gunshot wound.

Well I could tell you that a guy that had a heart attack while driving and crashed into a tree was killed in a car accident, but it is more likely the heart attack killed him. Or a guy died after he fell out of an airplane, when he could have had a heart attack on the way down or the ground might have killed him, but “falling out” of the plane is not what killed him.
 

Hail State

Sophomore
Dec 27, 2009
470
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43
The flu kills tons of compromised patients every year dude. This is the kind of flipping the script fake news narrative people are sick of.
 

Jeffreauxdawg

All-American
Dec 15, 2017
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Wait...
Did you say YOU have known several people die of a gunshot wound?

I have known a bunch... Yes. Combat doesn't count and if you take out suicides (3 in the last 7-8 years.) I still count three.

I have had 3 cousins murdered. One by gunshot at work by a disgruntled employee. The other two were domestic in nature.

One was a killed over a water bill or something stupid about 20 years ago or so. The other was beaten by a pipe and stuffed into a freezer. Technically not a gunshot, but still. Both by roommates oddly enough.

Hell, I even had a great uncle that shot and killed a few guys over a poker game in the 60's. He was out by the time I was big enough to remember anything and old uncle Bruce still carried a revolver in his pocket. Sweet man, but my Dad made sure I yessired the **** out of him.

Now to be fair, one cousin was a step cousin and my father had 4 brothers and my mom had 8 siblings (Catholic), so I probably had 20 cousins or so.

Maybe my people don't live long enough to die from the flu... But I never had that one.
 

Dawg1976

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Aug 22, 2012
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Agree. You can't hide in the basement forever. Be smart in your daily activities but time to move forward.
 

PineGroveBully

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Nov 13, 2007
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My first or second week of college and a cpl weeks before 9/11 my great aunt and uncle were in their mid 70’s and at home when this lady stopped and needed to use the phone. Now my great uncle was known to pull out a money clip of several thousand dollars to buy his lunch at the local store.

Well my uncle told her to come on in and sat down in his recliner to reach his phone book and the phone as he had my aunt go get her a glass of sweet tea. After my aunt went into the kitchen the woman pulled a .357 and unloaded 3 rounds into his chest killing him instantly. She got the money and other valuables from around his recliner and then went after my great aunt shooting her in the head.

Miraculously the bullet was more of a glancing blow to her and she played dead as the woman grabbed all she could and left. Nineteen years later and she still lives alone in the same house. Their daughter lives in Baton Rouge and she still drives the 8+ hours down to visit many times a year at 95-96yo. She’s the most amazing woman I’ve ever known and I’m proud and blessed to be able to call her my aunt. Another thing that makes her so cool is to this day the only SEC football games she misses is when more than one airs at the same time.

So I as well have known 3-4 people that were murdered and another few that survived attempts on their lives.
 
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thatsbaseball

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May 29, 2007
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Agree. I'm almost 70 and I think it's time to open things up. Wifey and I understand our situation and just intend to be a little extra cautious and try to "run out the clock" until some vaccines are developed. Then with my luck, I'll get vaccinated, the virus will mutate and take me out anyway...whatever. The world can not be expected to just stand still to protect my old ***.
 
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Jeffreauxdawg

All-American
Dec 15, 2017
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Just because you choose to live your life in absolute fear doesn't mean others must as well. The rational people see this for what it is. Then there's you.

I have been saying all week that it's time to open things up in most of the country... NYC is not ready. You have been saying all week that healthcare professionals are committing fraud and lying about how people died to get an extra 20% from the cares act. With no data to support your claim.

So am I scared... Yes. Scared of idiots going out in the next week or two and causing a flare up and getting us locked back down because they are to cool to wear a mask or use a little common since.
 

mount lefroy

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Feb 10, 2013
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So am I scared... Yes. Scared of idiots going out in the next week or two and causing a flare up and getting us locked back down because they are to cool to wear a mask or use a little common since.

We seem to be praising ourselves for keeping the numbers down and using that as justification to go back out. The numbers will go back up.

Of course, I guess we can hope Trump will fire Fauci so we can plausibly deny this is going to get worse. Fauci keeps reminding us all that moving from one stage to the next requires that there be a 14 day decline in numbers (deaths per case and new case ratio) and yet, some are suggesting we ignore that.

Opening businesses doesnt bring consumers back. If this respikes due to returning too early, can you imagine how hard it will be to come back the next time?
 

thatsbaseball

All-American
May 29, 2007
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You are totally ignoring the fact that a huge segment of our population has learned a lot from this and will take more ...gulp...PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY...for their own safety going forward. I know many won't but we've got to somehow move on anyway....and soon.
 

HailStout

Heisman
Jan 4, 2020
6,248
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We start reopening. Slowly like we are doing. Cases will go up. That is impossible to stop without a prolonged complete lockdown that I agree is likely something this country cannot realistically handle for a multitude of reasons. We have to see what happens at each step and move accordingly: let’s just pray we can move forward each time and not have such a spike that we move backwards. It is going to be a different world for the foreseeable future. If we arrive at a solution that makes both sides angry it’s probably the right one.
 

memphisbulldog

Redshirt
Apr 5, 2009
287
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My first or second week of college and a cpl weeks before 9/11 my great aunt and uncle were in their mid 70’s and at home when this lady stopped and needed to use the phone. Now my great uncle was known to pull out a money clip of several thousand dollars to buy his lunch at the local store.

Well my uncle told her to come on in and sat down in his recliner to reach his phone book and the phone as he had my aunt go get her a glass of sweet tea. After my aunt went into the kitchen the woman pulled a .357 and unloaded 3 rounds into his chest killing him instantly. She got the money and other valuables from around his recliner and then went after my great aunt shooting her in the head.

Miraculously the bullet was more of a glancing blow to her and she played dead as the woman grabbed all she could and left. Nineteen years later and she still lives alone in the same house. Their daughter lives in Baton Rouge and she still drives the 8+ hours down to visit many times a year at 95-96yo. She’s the most amazing woman I’ve ever known and I’m proud and blessed to be able to call her my aunt. Another thing that makes her so cool is to this day the only SEC football games she misses is when more than one airs at the same time.

So I as well have known 3-4 people that were murdered and another few that survived attempts on their lives.

Did they catch the ***** who shot your aunt?
 

UpTheMiddlex3Punt

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May 28, 2007
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Great article! I think most people here are misunderstanding it. It really has little to do with COVID-19.

I think most of the reason for not having good data on flu deaths is that no one is really clamoring for good data. Flu comes around every year and the death rate is so low and the fact that there are few asymptomatic carriers means that most of the public health actors are concerned with vaccination and treatment. When you dive into the numbers they actually report more on influenza-like illnesses rather than the flu itself.
 

PineGroveBully

Redshirt
Nov 13, 2007
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They did, I believe she got life but can’t remember if she’ll ever be up for parole. I think they got 2 male accomplices as well.
 

LBCJ5

Redshirt
Aug 26, 2006
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Dadgum Joe, sounds like you growed up in the area of Carroll County that was once called Little Texas.
 

SheltonChoked

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Feb 27, 2008
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Just because you choose to live your life in absolute fear doesn't mean others must as well. The rational people see this for what it is. Then there's you.


Are you volunteering you and your family to get Covid to help us get to Herd Immunity?

If all you 'OPEN UP NOW" guy would just go and catch it, we might solve 2 problems...
 

JungRebel

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Aug 23, 2012
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Has the cause of death from every death in that time frame been determined or are some outstanding? If not I assume the blue will go up some. I'm also curious to see what the numbers are on homicides since the lockdown began.
 

ezsoil

Junior
May 26, 2013
1,352
285
83
Agree. I'm almost 70 and I think it's time to open things up. Wifey and I understand our situation and just intend to be a little extra cautious and try to "run out the clock" until some vaccines are developed. Then with my luck, I'll get vaccinated, the virus will mutate and take me out anyway...whatever. The world can not be expected to just stand still to protect my old ***.

how dare you take personal responsibility for your own health *******
 

TheStateUofMS

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Dec 26, 2009
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I read it. Makes some very good points. Then look at what Biscuit Eater posted which is also VERY informative.

We all know if you have pre existing conditions especially those related to obesity, this is a very tough illness. It's a respiratory disease. If you are obese and/or have other underlying health conditions, it makes it very difficult for oxygen to flow through the body through the blood stream.

If you don't have any of these conditions health wise, Covid-19 isn't difficult for most to over come on their own except in rare circumstance.
 

FISHDAWG

Redshirt
Dec 27, 2009
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Well I could tell you that a guy that had a heart attack while driving and crashed into a tree was killed in a car accident, but it is more likely the heart attack killed him. Or a guy died after he fell out of an airplane, when he could have had a heart attack on the way down or the ground might have killed him, but “falling out” of the plane is not what killed him.

I knew a tandem skydiving instructor who died of a heart-attack while diving with a student ... never pulled his chute because he was dead ... student lived although broken up but he didn't die from jumping out of a plane or hitting the ground... you sir just said the exact same thing a LOT of us are thinking .....and I think there is a lot of validity to the OP
 

The Peeper

Heisman
Feb 26, 2008
16,786
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There was a 23 yr old girl transferred from a small central MS hospital to one of the large ones in Jackson this weekend. She is 5'8 and weighs 300lbs. She has high blood pressure, high cholesterol, is diabetic, irregular heart beat and is obviously obese. She was experiencing shortness of breath when transferred. She was transferred because the small hospital classified her as a Covid patient and they aren't equipped to quarantine as needed. She was admitted in Jackson, tested, but is negative for covid. She is no more a Covid patient than I am as I sit here and type but that is what she was transferred as and that's what she is classified as in her chart. She will be discharged soon with literature telling her a diet to start, some exercises to do (yeah right) some prescriptions for the BP, cholesterol and irregular heartbeat but she will still be a Covid statistic and the hospital reimbursed accordingly.
 

SirBarksalot

Junior
May 28, 2007
2,996
284
83
So in 6-8 weeks, COVID has killed as many people as a bad flu year does in 6 months. Keep thinking it’s just the flu.

long way to go yet.

oh...not withstanding that hospitals are falsely attributing deaths to the disease. **

i guess the real litmus test will be how many people died from all natural causes in 2020.
 
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