Florida at UConn

[Brentutk1]

One thing about Tennessee though.. they seem to recruit an awful lot of players that just aren't built for the NBA.

Player A could be better than Player B.. but only at the college level. Player B might actually do better in the NBA because he has pro-level build and speed.

Some schools almost seem to sniff out those "Good, but not quite good enough for the pros" players.

I don't know about that. Tennessee has players that are not NBA ready but then become NBA ready thru player development. Grant Williams, Josh Richardson, etc. Barnes recruits players that fit the system and show potential for the work ethic required to play under him.

 

[Brentutk1]

Also, Yves Pons is the next example. An absolute NBA specimen with none of the skill. Until now...

 

[kyjeff1]

I think we mostly agree. It looks like in using the amorphous word “talent” you define it like I do – meaning future potential. But I completely disagree with those who define talent to mean the best current college player, and then claim UK has had the best “talent” every year and therefore Calipari’s results have been a disappointment or failure. If you define talent the way those people do, then UK absolutely has not had the best talent. Instead, UK has had tons of freshmen with big upside who were drafted by the NBA on their potential, but didn’t get close enough to that potential in their one year in college.

So, I agree that if Calipari could have stacked his recruiting classes by having everyone return for a 2nd season UK would have likely been a dominant powerhouse every single year. But, of course, that didn’t/doesn’t happen – and it shouldn’t. Every player should do what’s best for him – that’s what the other students would/should do in their chosen careers.

I agree with all of that.

It goes back to what I said. If we're going to play this one-and-done game, then you have to replenish the freshmen/ sophomores you lost with legit transcendent talent.

While I love getting Tyler Herro, Keldon Johnson, SGA, Vanderbilt, Monk, Bam, Diallo etc type players, if they only stay a year or two, we (UK and the BBN) lose. We lose because those kids only show flashes of what they can do, than they're gone. If we want to see them blossom, we have to become NBA fans, because they don't blossom in college.

Hopefully the new NBA early entry rule helps us. As much as I like Calipari as our coach, he's a great ambassador and is keeping us out of trouble, he's going to keep doing what he's doing. He gets more satisfaction out of draft day than winning titles. He hates losing like we do, but what's happening right now is something that he talks about to his players a lot:

"The definition of Insanity. You are doing the same things over and over, but expecting different results."

Here we are in a down year in cbb, but we have a roster that is missing one piece and again, we will be going into the NCAAT with a young roster that has zero transcendent talent and a bunch of guys that are going to be on that stage for the first time. We've seen this movie a bunch the last 10 years.

I'm not being negative, just real.

 

[G-PIP]

Tennessee keeps some guys 4 years and some we don't, just like most schools. 2 of our 3 major losses from last year (Williams and Bone) went early. We'll have 4 5 stars next year and wouldn't count on keeping them for more than 1-2 years. Obviously UK is at the extreme end of the one and done, but there's really no solution to that other than to take less talented prospects (which is stupid obviously).

But like I was talking about with Kyjeff1, it depends on what somebody means by “talented”? I think there were numerous players last season with more potential than Grant Williams, but there were few better college players (although I think PJ Washington got there by the end of his sophomore season).

Personally, however, I love the higher skill level tweeners on a college level. I think if you identify one of the best of those type of guys he is going to provide much more value than the OAD - again, only because you're not going to have the OAD long enough for all that "talent" (i.e., future potential) to play out enough. But, to correctly identify those lower-ceiling/super-high-floor type players that as upperclassmen will be among the best college players - better college players than almost any 5-star freshmen - would have to be awfully hard, and maybe mostly just dumb luck. So, I wonder what fans think Calipari should do? Does he not recruit a player because that player might be OAD? Some might say yes, but again I think trying to forecast who will both stay and also turn out to be among the best in college basketball as upperclassmen would be really, really hard to do and a big gamble.

 

[G-PIP]

I agree with all of that.

It goes back to what I said. If we're going to play this one-and-done game, then you have to replenish the freshmen/ sophomores you lost with legit transcendent talent.

While I love getting Tyler Herro, Keldon Johnson, SGA, Vanderbilt, Monk, Bam, Diallo etc type players, if they only stay a year or two, we (UK and the BBN) lose. We lose because those kids only show flashes of what they can do, than they're gone. If we want to see them blossom, we have to become NBA fans, because they don't blossom in college.

Hopefully the new NBA early entry rule helps us. As much as I like Calipari as our coach, he's a great ambassador and is keeping us out of trouble, he's going to keep doing what he's doing. He gets more satisfaction out of draft day than winning titles. He hates losing like we do, but what's happening right now is something that he talks about to his players a lot:

"The definition of Insanity. You are doing the same things over and over, but expecting different results."

Here we are in a down year in cbb, but we have a roster that is missing one piece and again, we will be going into the NCAAT with a young roster that has zero transcendent talent and a bunch of guys that are going to be on that stage for the first time. We've seen this movie a bunch the last 10 years.

I'm not being negative, just real.

I can’t go so far as to agree that Calipari gets more satisfaction out of the draft than winning titles. I don’t know how anyone could know that. I also don’t think what Calipari is doing is insanity. To the contrary, I think Calipari has been and continues to be wildly successful – more so than probably anybody else could be at UK during this era. But, as a fan I’m always speculating on ways to “tweak” the results a little more (although I realize my ideas may be wrong – and actually if contrary to what a coach of Calipari’s ilk thinks is needed, then almost assuredly wrong).

Still, would I like to see more lower-ceiling/super-high-floor type players that develop into the top college players as upperclassmen? Absolutely! But as I said in another post, I don’t know how realistic it would even be to expect a coach to be able to identify the Grant Williams types – especially on a consistent basis. And if Calipari failed to identify the right lower ranked guys you know he would be crucified by fans for his “lack of recruiting ability.”

I’m hoping what Calipari is doing now, sprinkling in the graduate transfers and Lance Ware/Tyler Herro types, will get UK closer to what will make both of us happier (and hopefully we’re right that this would result in a slightly better product).

 

[katkraze]

florida looks terrible, even with some talent---their coach will be on the hot seat if he doesn't make a good tourny run this year

 

[kyjeff1]

I can’t go so far as to agree that Calipari gets more satisfaction out of the draft than winning titles. I don’t know how anyone could know that. I also don’t think what Calipari is doing is insanity. To the contrary, I think Calipari has been and continues to be wildly successful – more so than probably anybody else could be at UK during this era. But, as a fan I’m always speculating on ways to “tweak” the results a little more (although I realize my ideas may be wrong – and actually if contrary to what a coach of Calipari’s ilk thinks is needed, then almost assuredly wrong).

Still, would I like to see more lower-ceiling/super-high-floor type players that develop into the top college players as upperclassmen? Absolutely! But as I said in another post, I don’t know how realistic it would even be to expect a coach to be able to identify the Grant Williams types – especially on a consistent basis. And if Calipari failed to identify the right lower ranked guys you know he would be crucified by fans for his “lack of recruiting ability.”

I’m hoping what Calipari is doing now, sprinkling in the graduate transfers and Lance Ware/Tyler Herro types, will get UK closer to what will make both of us happier (and hopefully we’re right that this would result in a slightly better product).

I used to feel like that, but it's the same thing every year. Again, we have a thin roster with lower rated 5* guys that will still leave after one season no matter how they perform in their 1 year here.

At some point, the culture has to change. Losing underachievers after 1 season and starting over from scratch every year is getting very old.