Fire or extend

[chito_and_leon]

The AD calls and says we're firing one coach and giving the other a 3 year extension. You have to decide, between Frank or Monty, which gets fired and which gets extended. Well, which is it? And why if you can muster the energy.

I'd fire Monty because he's younger. Assuming TU won't fire either ever and they aren't leaving on their own for somewhere else, Frank will retire before Monty, so unless we fire Monty, we'll be stuck with him for longer.

 

[TU 1978]

Based on the undisciplined play and lack of imagination by our offensive coordinator for several years, it’s really an easy choice. Monty should be the one to go. The question is, will he?

 

[TulsaAM]

Building a competitive basketball team seems easier just because of the numbers involved, so start there? Honestly, this question might need King Solomon to answer it...

 

[URedskin54]

Has to be Monty. We’re teetering on having trouble fielding a D1 program with the support we have in football. Basketball situation is not that dire

 

[noble cane]

Football pays the bills... you have to have a team that puts more than 4000 butts in the stands..

Monty has to go..

Tonights crowd was just going through the motions..

Nice weather, senior night, OU game over, OSU game kicking off late on the road.. you have to draw on a night like this...

I love TU football but, midway into this one, i was wishing that i had gone deer hunting.. because the quality of play was boring.

 

[Jgreen13]

I have season tickets for football but haven't gone to any games second half of the season. If the administration and HC doesn't care enough to put an above average product on the field, then why should I. They don't have to fire Monty because his current contract expires in January.

 

[t-townpod]

Was even on upper suite level and almost all the boxes including the presidents suite was small or empty. Really sad

 

[mcane]

Yes fan support tells us Monty must go

 

[bluegold70]

I'm watching the Erskine vs Catawba game trying to scout our future opponents....looks like we're in trouble...they can both kick our ***!!

 

[ctt8410]

In the last 20 years:

Monty teams: 79th average Sagarin ranking
non-Monty teams: 83rd

Haith teams: 109th average KenPom ranking
non-Haith teams: 115th

Football has the potential to make more money and it drives conference re-alignment, but a small alumni base limits the ceiling. Basketball has a more recent history as an elite program and requires less investment, but will always be second fiddle in the state.

Haith has a 17-year track record as a poor-to-mediocre head coach. Monty has a 7-year track record as a poor-to-mediocre head coach.

A functional athletic department would fire both. If I could only choose one, it's Haith, but it's a close call.

 

[aTUfan_rivals]

what will change if he stays? will we improve?

 

[astonmartin708_rivals]

The AD calls and says we're firing one coach and giving the other a 3 year extension. You have to decide, between Frank or Monty, which gets fired and which gets extended. Well, which is it? And why if you can muster the energy.

I'd fire Monty because he's younger. Assuming TU won't fire either ever and they aren't leaving on their own for somewhere else, Frank will retire before Monty, so unless we fire Monty, we'll be stuck with him for longer.

Frank's no where near retirement. If we have to stick with him until retirement, that's going to be another 10 years of suck-i-tude.

 

[astonmartin708_rivals]

Has to be Monty. We’re teetering on having trouble fielding a D1 program with the support we have in football. Basketball situation is not that dire

What do you mean by this? There are plenty of dog-crap teams that have D1 programs and no attendance. Not that it's an excuse to keep Monty... just saying, fan support isn't the reason to let him go. If it was, then Haith would have been let go a long time ago. Wojcik was let go due to dwindling fan support and Haith's been doing worse than Wojcik was. LMAO.

 

[chito_and_leon]

In the last 20 years:

Monty teams: 79th average Sagarin ranking
non-Monty teams: 83rd

Haith teams: 109th average KenPom ranking
non-Haith teams: 115th

Football has the potential to make more money and it drives conference re-alignment, but a small alumni base limits the ceiling. Basketball has a more recent history as an elite program and requires less investment, but will always be second fiddle in the state.

Haith has a 17-year track record as a poor-to-mediocre head coach. Monty has a 7-year track record as a poor-to-mediocre head coach.

A functional athletic department would fire both. If I could only choose one, it's Haith, but it's a close call.

I can't argue with your conclusion, the answer is obviously fire both. On the comparative Sagarins and KenPoms, I don't think that tells us much about Frank and Monty (the implication kinda seems to be that they're both at the average of what we should expect at TU, or at the "normal" level for TU and I don't think that's right). But I think it tells us that we need to clear house in the athletic department and fire whoever is hiring coaches. Tho natural selection might have handled that. 17 years of Phillips, Doug and Manning doesn't make me think "maybe I should appreciate Frank", it makes me think "who the hell's running this place??"

 

[StoopsBros_rivals28674]

 

[drboobay]

Hooray.

 

[chito_and_leon]

So much for natural selection in the athletic department.

 

[I.I.]

Can still be fired Saturday if someone pays the buyout. But Carson and Dickson must love him.

 

[Oak775]

The AD calls and says we're firing one coach and giving the other a 3 year extension. You have to decide, between Frank or Monty, which gets fired and which gets extended. Well, which is it? And why if you can muster the energy.

I'd fire Monty because he's younger. Assuming TU won't fire either ever and they aren't leaving on their own for somewhere else, Frank will retire before Monty, so unless we fire Monty, we'll be stuck with him for longer.

Monty just signed a 2 year extension as reported by the TW.

 

[TU 1978]

He signed it in the off-season, per the World.

We want to keep Mr. Mediocre coaching because he hasn’t destroyed the football program yet?

All I know is that none of our foundation money will go to TU until things change.

 

[TU Sepp]

Good bye TU football...

A 5-7 record must now be the standard to keep your job!

I thought Rick was going to be a good hire...

I was wrong!!!

 

[chito_and_leon]

Can still be fired Saturday if someone pays the buyout. But Carson and Dickson must love him.

This decision seems so obviously and mindbogglingly stupid that I have absolutely no idea what criteria they're using to decide on coaches' contracts. Like if you told me they extended him because of their tarot cards or a space alien beamed them up and told them to or because he's a Gemini, I'd be like "makes as much sense as any other reason I can think of".

 

[Gmoney4WW]

He signed it in the off-season, per the World.

We want to keep Mr. Mediocre coaching because he hasn’t destroyed the football program yet?

All I know is that none of our foundation money will go to TU until things change.

The contract extension, which wasn’t signed until an unspecified point in the season,

 

[HuffyCane]

This isn’t a surprise if you subscribe to the pay board. We’ve talked about the probability of this happening in the Alley for a few weeks. Some of y’all didn’t want to see it coming, and some of y’all still haven’t learned to listen to me.

It was inevitable given the performance last year and Haith being extended for similar results. There are other very positive reasons for making this decision at this time that I won’t share here.

I’ll always be a fan of Tulsa. I’ve never been a fan of Montgomery being here, though I would pull for him if he went elsewhere. I just don’t think what he is trying to do fits our school or our identity. While I think a new coach would bring some immediate positives, there are many other superseding reasons that justify this decision. The program is more than just winning next year. It’s about winning on and off the field measured out in decades.

I think over the course of the next two years, you’ll start to see the results of many management reforms. Dividends on and off the field. There’s a great team on campus right now. Top to bottom. The best we’ve had since Stead/Fulton/Mike/Bubba/Todd, actually much better in many respects. We threw a lot of money at Todd and Gus in 2008. We could do that because of the management pains of 2003-2007. We filled in a lot of holes back then. Fixed a lot of neglected and broken down business processes. The same is under way. Be patient. We will be back to Tulsa Football soon. With or without the current manager of the on field product.

@ctt8410 You owe me a bottle of Blanton’s. Feel free to deliver care of @Chris Harmon

 

[chito_and_leon]

This isn’t a surprise if you subscribe to the pay board. We’ve talked about the probability of this happening in the Alley for a few weeks. Some of y’all didn’t want to see it coming, and some of y’all still haven’t learned to listen to me.

It was inevitable given the performance last year and Haith being extended for similar results. There are other very positive reasons for making this decision at this time that I won’t share here.

I’ll always be a fan of Tulsa. I’ve never been a fan of Montgomery being here, though I would pull for him if he went elsewhere. I just don’t think what he is trying to do fits our school or our identity. While I think a new coach would bring some immediate positives, there are many other superseding reasons that justify this decision. The program is more than just winning next year. It’s about winning on and off the field measured out in decades.

I think over the course of the next two years, you’ll start to see the results of many management reforms. Dividends on and off the field. There’s a great team on campus right now. Top to bottom. The best we’ve had since Stead/Fulton/Mike/Bubba/Todd, actually much better in many respects. We threw a lot of money at Todd and Gus in 2008. We could do that because of the management pains of 2003-2007. We filled in a lot of holes back then. Fixed a lot of neglected and broken down business processes. The same is under way. Be patient. We will be back to Tulsa Football soon. With or without the current manager of the on field product.

@ctt8410 You owe me a bottle of Blanton’s. Feel free to deliver care of @Chris Harmon

I don't think anyone who's been a TU fan for long is surprised by this. When was the last time we had a decent coach of anything? More than 10 years in football and 20 years in basketball. If there's one thing we know to expect, it's that TU will make the decision guaranteed to ensure ongoing mediocrity.

I wish I had printed all the famous Huffy "I know more than anyone else, you all are dumb for not listening to me, golden days are just around the corner" posts. I could wallpaper my office. I hope maybe this time you'll finally be right but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[TU 1978]

Sadly, I’m afraid I won’t live long enough to see that resurgence in Tulsa football that Huffy believes will happen. I’ve been a fan of the program long before I ever attended TU as a student. My father took me to TU football and basketball games when I was young. The Rhome / Twilley / Anderson / Townes years made quite an impression on me. I enjoyed watching that brand of football and the players were fine people as well. My father had been an instructor in the engineering school at TU prior to his engineering career, and had a loyalty to support the school financially and in person at games. The stadium was packed during those days - a sea of people supporting the team. The fact that the product on the field was exciting to watch drew others in the city in as fans, expanding the fan base.

A lot of us are tired, Huffy. Some of us are sick and tired. I don’t have the energy any more to deal with what seems to be the university embracing mediocrity in football (or men’s basketball either for that matter). We have other programs (men’s soccer, women’s basketball and cross country) where things seem to be going quite well. They are not the two largest revenue generating sports, although Nelp’s team may wind up getting more fans to games this year than Haith’s.

I’ll probably continue to follow the men’s soccer and women’s basketball teams this year for as long as I can, and hope they will be successful.

 

[ctt8410]

@ctt8410 You owe me a bottle of Blanton’s. Feel free to deliver care of @Chris Harmon

Conveniently, I’ve just had a surplus open up in my budget that used to be labeled “GHC donation”. Now I just gotta figure out the logistics of getting it from Oregon to Florida, which might be more difficult than deciphering Frank Haith substitution patterns in a mid-November game against a random SWAC team.

 

[drboobay]

This isn’t a surprise if you subscribe to the pay board. We’ve talked about the probability of this happening in the Alley for a few weeks. Some of y’all didn’t want to see it coming, and some of y’all still haven’t learned to listen to me.

It was inevitable given the performance last year and Haith being extended for similar results. There are other very positive reasons for making this decision at this time that I won’t share here.

I’ll always be a fan of Tulsa. I’ve never been a fan of Montgomery being here, though I would pull for him if he went elsewhere. I just don’t think what he is trying to do fits our school or our identity. While I think a new coach would bring some immediate positives, there are many other superseding reasons that justify this decision. The program is more than just winning next year. It’s about winning on and off the field measured out in decades.

I think over the course of the next two years, you’ll start to see the results of many management reforms. Dividends on and off the field. There’s a great team on campus right now. Top to bottom. The best we’ve had since Stead/Fulton/Mike/Bubba/Todd, actually much better in many respects. We threw a lot of money at Todd and Gus in 2008. We could do that because of the management pains of 2003-2007. We filled in a lot of holes back then. Fixed a lot of neglected and broken down business processes. The same is under way. Be patient. We will be back to Tulsa Football soon. With or without the current manager of the on field product.

@ctt8410 You owe me a bottle of Blanton’s. Feel free to deliver care of @Chris Harmon

This may all be true and well thought out.

Hopefully they are not counting on increased ticket sales as part of the equation, at least not for the next few years, because fan apathy is certainly real. I have six football tickets and will definitely be moving down to 2. I cannot even get my own family and close friends to take free tickets.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

This isn’t a surprise if you subscribe to the pay board. We’ve talked about the probability of this happening in the Alley for a few weeks. Some of y’all didn’t want to see it coming, and some of y’all still haven’t learned to listen to me.

It was inevitable given the performance last year and Haith being extended for similar results. There are other very positive reasons for making this decision at this time that I won’t share here.

I’ll always be a fan of Tulsa. I’ve never been a fan of Montgomery being here, though I would pull for him if he went elsewhere. I just don’t think what he is trying to do fits our school or our identity. While I think a new coach would bring some immediate positives, there are many other superseding reasons that justify this decision. The program is more than just winning next year. It’s about winning on and off the field measured out in decades.

I think over the course of the next two years, you’ll start to see the results of many management reforms. Dividends on and off the field. There’s a great team on campus right now. Top to bottom. The best we’ve had since Stead/Fulton/Mike/Bubba/Todd, actually much better in many respects. We threw a lot of money at Todd and Gus in 2008. We could do that because of the management pains of 2003-2007. We filled in a lot of holes back then. Fixed a lot of neglected and broken down business processes. The same is under way. Be patient. We will be back to Tulsa Football soon. With or without the current manager of the on field product.

@ctt8410 You owe me a bottle of Blanton’s. Feel free to deliver care of @Chris Harmon

Hope you’re right. Because it’s a really depressing time to be a TU fan right now.

 

[drboobay]

Conveniently, I’ve just had a surplus open up in my budget that used to be labeled “GHC donation”. Now I just gotta figure out the logistics of getting it from Oregon to Florida, which might be more difficult than deciphering Frank Haith substitution patterns in a mid-November game against a random SWAC team.

I gave up on the GHC this year too. Again apathy. I hope Huffy's plan is clear thinking enough to factor this in.

 

[lawpoke87]

If there’s another conference shakeup in 2024-2025, I’m not sure we have another 2 years to tread water with Monty. I thought TU would look at attendance trends as well as the overall decline of interest in TU football and decide it was time to go another direction. Especially with alignment possibly looming in the near future. I was wrong. Hopefully my pessimistic outlook regarding any alignment is wrong as well.

 

[PNTrough]

If there’s another conference shakeup in 2024-2025, I’m not sure we have another 2 years to tread water with Monty. I thought TU would look at attendance trends as well as the overall decline of interest in TU football and decide it was time to go another direction. Especially with alignment possibly looming in the near future. I was wrong. Hopefully my pessimistic outlook regarding any alignment is wrong as well.

A cynic would say throttling down the coaching compensation to 2010 CUSA levels is a foreshadow of things to come.

 

[drboobay]

A cynic would say throttling down the coaching compensation to 2010 CUSA levels is a foreshadow of things to come.

I hope that money will go straight into the pocket of a new OC.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

A cynic would say throttling down the coaching compensation to 2010 CUSA levels is a foreshadow of things to come.

We’re basically starting over with Cusa in a couple of years. I’m not sure we’ll have enough going for us when the next round of realignment l… we could be stuck in this crap conference with rice and north Texas for the foreseeable future.

 

[chito_and_leon]

This may all be true and well thought out.

Hopefully they are not counting on increased ticket sales as part of the equation, at least not for the next few years, because fan apathy is certainly real. I have six football tickets and will definitely be moving down to 2. I cannot even get my own family and close friends to take free tickets.

Don't get your hopes up. Anytime the admin does something that hurts us competitively to save $$, Huffy comes on with the "I know more than you and happy days are just around the corner" posts. I've wondered for a long time if he is affiliated withe the school and gets his talking points straight from the administration. Best case, we're accepting mediocrity at most for 2 years while we build out administrative staff. Couldn't we hire a new coach and build out administrative staff at the same time? Or our "best case" is we need a very cheap coach and couldn't get anyone better than Montgomery since we need the $$ for other things, so we suck it for 2 years and hope the other things pay off? That's a pretty weak a$$ "best" if you ask me.

 

[chito_and_leon]

If there’s another conference shakeup in 2024-2025, I’m not sure we have another 2 years to tread water with Monty. I thought TU would look at attendance trends as well as the overall decline of interest in TU football and decide it was time to go another direction. Especially with alignment possibly looming in the near future. I was wrong. Hopefully my pessimistic outlook regarding any alignment is wrong as well.

Let's be honest, any conference would have to be insane to invite us. The school has had nothing but turmoil for 2 years, shutting down half our programs, talk about losing accreditation and on the athletics side, keeping a coach because he'd take a 45% pay cut. It's like marrying a drug addict with a gambling problem and a heart condition.

 

[URedskin54]

Extending a coach with attendance like this is the move of a school that doesn’t care much about maintaining a D1 football program. Maybe we know “division 4” is coming at it won’t matter anyway

 

[HuffyCane]

Extending a coach with attendance like this is the move of a school that doesn’t care much about maintaining a D1 football program. Maybe we know “division 4” is coming at it won’t matter anyway

TU won’t be in Division 4. But don’t be surprised if the new look AAC is two featured made for TV games on Friday night games where attendance is irrelevant. Attendance is only going to matter at the larger schools. Think UT, UF, and Michigan, where you need to donate $2500 or more just to have a chance to purchase season tickets if they are available. TU’s attendance revenue is nice to relieve budget pressure but it hasn’t helped pay the bills since the early 90’s. Similarly, fewer people are buying season tickets because the TV product is so good now. Hence, TV season tickets we call streaming.

 

[HuffyCane]

This may all be true and well thought out.

Hopefully they are not counting on increased ticket sales as part of the equation, at least not for the next few years, because fan apathy is certainly real. I have six football tickets and will definitely be moving down to 2. I cannot even get my own family and close friends to take free tickets.

I can’t speak for their thinking but the numbers indicate that fan attendance isn’t a priority, it’s a luxury. Whether that thinking started in the early 90s or when we got the AAC money is a matter of debate.

 

[goldenhurricane2]

TU won’t be in Division 4. But don’t be surprised if the new look AAC is two featured made for TV games on Friday night games where attendance is irrelevant. Attendance is only going to matter at the larger schools. Think UT, UF, and Michigan, where you need to donate $2500 or more just to have a chance to purchase season tickets if they are available. TU’s attendance revenue is nice to relieve budget pressure but it hasn’t helped pay the bills since the early 90’s. Similarly, fewer people are buying season tickets because the TV product is so good now. Hence, TV season tickets we call streaming.

So we won’t be playing at the highest level of college football anymore, we’ll be stuck on mainly weeknight games against rice/north Texas etc, and TU doesn’t care about the Gameday atmosphere/fans in the stadium?

wow that’s a pretty grim outlook.