Even Bruce Pearl.....
- Thread starter DawgatAuburn
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I can only remember one year Auburn didn't suck in basketball and that was with Chris Porter. They made the Sweet Sixteen. Sigh. Even Auburn has made a Sweet 16 since we last did.
Three of their starters are seniors. He didn't have time to recruit good high school players after he got hired last year. They won't be good until his third year at the earliest.
Agreed. His incoming class for next year is very strong, and there's pretty much zero reason to think that he won't continue that recruiting trend the following year. I fully expect both Auburn and TA&M to be battling for conference titles in two years. Hell, if it weren't for this ******** Kentucky team this year, A&M would already be there.
As Respectfully Put as possible ...
You are simply clueless. Auburn, in Pearl's 1st year, is currently only 1/2 game behind State ... in Ray's third year.
Meanwhile, Pearl has 5 commits for his '15 class and depending on the service ... is in the top 10 - 15 class in the country and top 2-3 in the SEC. Ray has the 60 - 50th best class in the country for '15, and 9th to 10th best in the SEC.
Pearl ... just like Ray ... had to play their first year with little more than what they inherited. BUT, Pearl has out recruited most every SEC coach ... in less than one year.
It only took one year for Pearl to turn around the UT program after Buzz Peterson, and after that first year, he took UT to six NCAATs in a row.
You are simply clueless. Auburn, in Pearl's 1st year, is currently only 1/2 game behind State ... in Ray's third year.
Meanwhile, Pearl has 5 commits for his '15 class and depending on the service ... is in the top 10 - 15 class in the country and top 2-3 in the SEC. Ray has the 60 - 50th best class in the country for '15, and 9th to 10th best in the SEC.
Pearl ... just like Ray ... had to play their first year with little more than what they inherited. BUT, Pearl has out recruited most every SEC coach ... in less than one year.
It only took one year for Pearl to turn around the UT program after Buzz Peterson, and after that first year, he took UT to six NCAATs in a row.
And, you are being generous saying Pearl has had one year... Actually, didn't he have to sit out the first like 3-4 months due to the NCAA penalty on him?
But, yes, I agree with your point. We are still excusing our current Coach (while trying to blame the previous coach) in Year 3 while Pearl will pass us in his first 3/4 of a year on the job in a very similar job... (except that he didn't take over a program that won 21 games in the previous year...)
But, yes, I agree with your point. We are still excusing our current Coach (while trying to blame the previous coach) in Year 3 while Pearl will pass us in his first 3/4 of a year on the job in a very similar job... (except that he didn't take over a program that won 21 games in the previous year...)
You're trying too waaaay too hard here. I simply made a tongue in cheek statement about Auburn basketball, which Auburn fans, if you know them, believed was going to have a miraculous immediate turnaround under Pearl. He got the top JUCO in the country, the nation's leading returning scorer, and a decent guard to all transfer in, pulled a highly ranked 7 footer that got in trouble at Maryland, and already had KT Harrell coming back. He's parlayed that into losing to State, Bama and TAMU in the last week. I'm sure things will get better, but the deflation of the Auburn fans is a sight to see.
I made no comparison to Ray. Didn't even mention Ray. Like most people, I'd rather have Pearl than Ray, but we have Ray, so we have to deal with it. I'll treat him just like I treated Stans. Compliment him when I think he does well, criticize when I think he hasn't.
I made no comparison to Ray. Didn't even mention Ray. Like most people, I'd rather have Pearl than Ray, but we have Ray, so we have to deal with it. I'll treat him just like I treated Stans. Compliment him when I think he does well, criticize when I think he hasn't.
Or compare him (RR) to a Final4 HC when he finally wins a conference game... You know, just the same
I believe we all know who is trying too hard here. You, the one who started a thread complaining about the RS threads, still trying to justify your arguments with just random stupidity.
I believe we all know who is trying too hard here. You, the one who started a thread complaining about the RS threads, still trying to justify your arguments with just random stupidity.
He means Richard Williams from the thread where I stated that their records were the same 80something games into their careers, which is nothing more than a statement of fact, not a prediction of things to come or a comparison of what kind of coaches they are. I'm not allowed to have opinions or observations without my fan club of AHS and Biscuit twisting and turning everything I say into something I didn't say. Auditioning for ED I guess.
No. No its not. Nothing is as bad as Fish and the top 20 crap.
What Mullen has done in 6 seasons is way more than what Stansbury did in 14 in my opinion. I'm talking about the end result. 6 NCAA trips in 14 seasons (2 first round and 4 second round eliminations) compared to 5 straight bowl games in 6 seasons. 2 gator bowls, 1 orange and no terrible bowls is arguably the greatest 5 year run in any sport in MSU history. Maybe not a greatest single season but the entire body of work can't be argued with logically.
What Mullen has done in 6 seasons is way more than what Stansbury did in 14 in my opinion. I'm talking about the end result. 6 NCAA trips in 14 seasons (2 first round and 4 second round eliminations) compared to 5 straight bowl games in 6 seasons. 2 gator bowls, 1 orange and no terrible bowls is arguably the greatest 5 year run in any sport in MSU history. Maybe not a greatest single season but the entire body of work can't be argued with logically.
I was speaking
moreso to the general annoyance of the meme alluding to Stansbury sucking. It is way overplayed.
moreso to the general annoyance of the meme alluding to Stansbury sucking. It is way overplayed.
I get tired of people that complain about something being brought up only to continually broach said subject..
And no one will soon forget the fact that you tried to insinuate that RR was on the same level/par/point in his career as Richard Williams was in his 3rd year. NO ONE will forget that... And, if you do want to 'remember', I had a former posting name where I continually bashed the ED/Coach34 idiots of this board.
And no one will soon forget the fact that you tried to insinuate that RR was on the same level/par/point in his career as Richard Williams was in his 3rd year. NO ONE will forget that... And, if you do want to 'remember', I had a former posting name where I continually bashed the ED/Coach34 idiots of this board.
The tired debate is "should we have fired Stans" and the I told you so crowd that seems to be reveling in our current misery. That's not aimed at you so don't take it that way. Anyway, that debate is in my mind pointless. I don't bring it up unless posting about the current team or coach with any hint of a historical perspective is somehow doing so, which I don't think it is. Or if desperately trying to find anything to be optimistic about in our current state, which is a challenge, is doing so. Again, I don't think it is. I'm not Rick Ray's press agent. He'll succeed or fail on his own. I hope we win every game in his tenure, just like I did with Mullen, Stansbury, Croom, Williams, Sherrill, Polk, McMahon, etc.
I honestly don't know what you think my intent was here. There was chatter on the board about the state of the program when Richard took over, when Stans took over and when Ray took over. I looked back at Richard's records his first three years and added them up. Then did the same for Ray. Whaddaya know, they were similar. I found that to be interesting so I posted it. Nothing more, nothing less. That's not insinuating anything. It's just plain old math. Attaching some subliminal message to that is giving me way too much credit for knowing how to mess with people's minds. I'm not trying to manipulate people into thinking a certain way about Ray. The discussions about coaches, gameplans, bunting, recruiting, the Network, and mole crickets are what keeps posting on this board fun and keeps DS's kids in designer clothes.
I'll step away from these discussions now and try to resist re-entering them. I'll still post about basketball but I don't think the constant bickering about nothing is doing anyone any good. Appreciate your opinions though.
I honestly don't know what you think my intent was here. There was chatter on the board about the state of the program when Richard took over, when Stans took over and when Ray took over. I looked back at Richard's records his first three years and added them up. Then did the same for Ray. Whaddaya know, they were similar. I found that to be interesting so I posted it. Nothing more, nothing less. That's not insinuating anything. It's just plain old math. Attaching some subliminal message to that is giving me way too much credit for knowing how to mess with people's minds. I'm not trying to manipulate people into thinking a certain way about Ray. The discussions about coaches, gameplans, bunting, recruiting, the Network, and mole crickets are what keeps posting on this board fun and keeps DS's kids in designer clothes.
I'll step away from these discussions now and try to resist re-entering them. I'll still post about basketball but I don't think the constant bickering about nothing is doing anyone any good. Appreciate your opinions though.
It was a valid comparison. The records are similar. Ray walked into a lot more tradition than Williams did and "should" be able to recruit better but Ray walked into a much worse SEC.
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They went again in 2003 with Marquis Daniels and Jamison Brewer among others. Lost to Melo's Syracuse team.
Please explain 'where' I have twisted ...
Anything you have posted .. period.
Your post ...
I simply pointed out that Pearl is doing a great job recruiting in his first year on the job and has a history of getting to the NCAAT in his 2nd year at UT. Exactly ... 'what did I twist?'
In two replies to your Richard Williams post, I just pointed 'my opinions and observations' ... Richard Williams did an outstanding job of hiring talented assistants like Stans, Et Al. I also pointed out that Williams had it easier than Ray due to ~40 years of crappy BB prior to coming in ... while Ray got to replace the 'winningest' coach in MSU BB history. Again, I 'twisted' nothing you wrote .. just added my observations.
I just posted facts, too ... sorry you don't agree with my viewpoint but instead of making excuses, just post a factual rebuttal. I can take it.
Anything you have posted .. period.
Your post ...
DawgatAuburn; said:
I simply pointed out that Pearl is doing a great job recruiting in his first year on the job and has a history of getting to the NCAAT in his 2nd year at UT. Exactly ... 'what did I twist?'
In two replies to your Richard Williams post, I just pointed 'my opinions and observations' ... Richard Williams did an outstanding job of hiring talented assistants like Stans, Et Al. I also pointed out that Williams had it easier than Ray due to ~40 years of crappy BB prior to coming in ... while Ray got to replace the 'winningest' coach in MSU BB history. Again, I 'twisted' nothing you wrote .. just added my observations.
I just posted facts, too ... sorry you don't agree with my viewpoint but instead of making excuses, just post a factual rebuttal. I can take it.
Very much disagree. Its only a valid comparison if you are really thinking that the comparison has legs. You wouldn't compare RW with RR unless you are trying to say "hey, give it a chance because we might just be on the precipice of this..."
I could compare Rick Ray to freaking Coach K. Did you know that Coach K was 17-13(6-8), 10-17(4-10) and 11-17(3-11) in his first 3 years at Duke? So, that makes him 38-47 (13-29) where Rick Ray is 33-52 (9-34)... See, he is not actually doing that bad at all!!! I mean, it is year 4 that seems to be the real year of change!!!
It was a dumb comparison that had ZERO legs to it. Just because the records of 2 guys are similar does not a comparison make... Especially when one of them is Rick Ray... Rick Ray walked into a program with more tradition, into a state that is a hotbed for basketball talent and into a worse SEC which should make freaking winning easier...
I could compare Rick Ray to freaking Coach K. Did you know that Coach K was 17-13(6-8), 10-17(4-10) and 11-17(3-11) in his first 3 years at Duke? So, that makes him 38-47 (13-29) where Rick Ray is 33-52 (9-34)... See, he is not actually doing that bad at all!!! I mean, it is year 4 that seems to be the real year of change!!!
It was a dumb comparison that had ZERO legs to it. Just because the records of 2 guys are similar does not a comparison make... Especially when one of them is Rick Ray... Rick Ray walked into a program with more tradition, into a state that is a hotbed for basketball talent and into a worse SEC which should make freaking winning easier...
You could. And with those numbers - it's an actual comparison b/c they are similar.
Like D@A said - he's not saying that this is a reason to keep Ray. He is just throwing it out there for fodder.
Like D@A said - he's not saying that this is a reason to keep Ray. He is just throwing it out there for fodder.
Agree to disagree. A comparison needs to have an actual point that it is leading to. If you just take the numbers of almost anything you can make a comparison but usually it lacks in telling the whole story. This one clearly lacks in telling the whole story and is just being used as a way to push an argument. There are plenty of things to throw out there as fodder for this argument. What he threw out is a justification for 'just wait and see' which I find absurd coming from a person that was so aggressively wanting to change from our previous regime.
Then help me understand why you compare 2 coaches' crappy 1st 3 years
while knowing that one of them went on to do very good things after year 3 and become an icon to a program?
Again, I just fail to understand what this comparison meant to anything unless you are signaling something toward RW didn't get it figured out and have us winning at first either.
I could compare Pluto to Earth but unless I had a point, who the hell cares... What was the point of the RW/RR comparison other than to say 'hey, they both sucked at first'? Is that it? Is that all?
Record wise, Sly Croom's first year wasn't that different from Dan Mullen's first year and neither went to a bowl. But, I sure as hell wouldn't want to try to insinuate that they are anything close to the same level of coach. Yet, if I came out with a comparison of them and only listed their first years' records and their lack of a bowl game as my data, most would assume, I am trying to say that they are the same level of coach. Its just a weird and flawed argument. Just no substance to it at all. Especially if you aren't leading to a discussion where you try to validate your argument by ACTUALLY comparing them.
while knowing that one of them went on to do very good things after year 3 and become an icon to a program?
Again, I just fail to understand what this comparison meant to anything unless you are signaling something toward RW didn't get it figured out and have us winning at first either.
I could compare Pluto to Earth but unless I had a point, who the hell cares... What was the point of the RW/RR comparison other than to say 'hey, they both sucked at first'? Is that it? Is that all?
Record wise, Sly Croom's first year wasn't that different from Dan Mullen's first year and neither went to a bowl. But, I sure as hell wouldn't want to try to insinuate that they are anything close to the same level of coach. Yet, if I came out with a comparison of them and only listed their first years' records and their lack of a bowl game as my data, most would assume, I am trying to say that they are the same level of coach. Its just a weird and flawed argument. Just no substance to it at all. Especially if you aren't leading to a discussion where you try to validate your argument by ACTUALLY comparing them.
Because it's a message board and the point is to have discussion.
Unless you can see into a crystal ball and know exactly what Rick Ray would do in year 4, 5, 6, 7 etc - it provides a talking point.
Unless you can see into a crystal ball and know exactly what Rick Ray would do in year 4, 5, 6, 7 etc - it provides a talking point.
If we are looking at the entire body of work, then you have to include that Stansbury won a SEC Championship, two SEC Tournament Championships, and a bunch of SEC Western Division Championships. Its not apples to apples, and I don't ncessarily agree with it, but there is certainly a logical argument that Stansbury was more successful at MSU than Mullen has been so far. One factor to consider: Mississippi is a better state for recruiting football players than basketball players.
SEC Championship I'll give him. It was great.
Winning the West in bball is nothing. We won the west and didn't make the NCAA tournament.
Stansbury was successful here, but he peaked. He peaked and never got us past the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament. It was time to move on.
It may be getting close to time for Ray to move on also.
Winning the West in bball is nothing. We won the west and didn't make the NCAA tournament.
Stansbury was successful here, but he peaked. He peaked and never got us past the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament. It was time to move on.
It may be getting close to time for Ray to move on also.