Steve Muench and Kevin Weidl's names are on the byline.
They have the Jets taking Vonn Bell in the second.
Eli Apple?
- Thread starter koleszar
- Start date
They have the Jets taking Vonn Bell in the second.
I can understand it, but its beyond ridiculous for the NFL to continue to ban weed. The same league that essentially looks the other way on steriods, has doctors injecting players with serious pain killers so that they can get on the field, won't let them smoke? Its crazy.
He's speaking now. He did have an allergic reaction, per the reporters at the press conference..which caused it to be delayed. Rough couple of days for the kid.
Can't complain about Big Blue landing another top-end WR in Sterling Shepard but we better have plans for an LB and OL REALLY soon. I hope to hell we've got something up our sleeve!
I think Jerry was sold he was getting Floyd and they don't have any other LBs high enough on their board. Between incumbents, free agency and the draft at least our pathetic secondary is taken care of. But we better take best available OL next.
Or Carroo.
Free safety was a weakness for years. If you think you can get a comparable OLineman later, then take the better player at a position of need now
Well, they clearly reached for Apple. I don't think anyone would have questioned (as much) Darron Lee
Ah. I see. You just have to read and you know who's better. Thanks. You should let teams in tne NFL know about all this stuff you read. You'll have a job in a minute. If the Giants had known, they've have hired you and you could have stopped them from making this mistake that was so obvious in all the stuff you read.
I've read the reviews before and after the pick. Watched both play, Apple several times(admittedly not as in depth as GM's) I'm not sure how else you form an opinion in your eyes. Do you even have an opinion on the situation? This is a message board after all. Your lack of knowledge on the situation is quite apparent, with your blind trust in a GM who has slowly eroded the talent level on the Giants since Accorsi left. Your only defense so far has been, "you should have a job in the NFL with your knowledge" an argument you state over and over. This is basically the way a 10yr. old would discuss an argument. My apologies if you are in fact 10yrs. old.
Those who think the Giants are in such a great need of a RT are sorely mistaken. It is NOT a top priority for the Giants.
Their O line has 3 solid if not spectacular pieces already- Flowers-Pugh-Richburg. Flowers, obviously the least proven, has the most potential of the lot- to be a top of the line LT. The right side of the Giants line is what is perceived to be lacking, RG and RT. Well Hart is going to be the RG, as he showed promise playing there last season. Reese has basically said this. That leaves RT as the perceived question mark...
Eli had his best passing seasons the past 2 years, by far his most efficient seasons, behind a perceived "weak line." Macadoos offense is predicated on getting the ball out of Eli's hands
ASAP. This means that a "strong" O line isn't a priority. They gave up a very low amount of sacks last season. You don't have to block if the ball is out. You can effectively run the Giants offense without stout pass protection.
Now the rush was downright awful admittedly. But guess what?...
The NYFG laid the ground work on how to win in today's NFL (beat Tom Brady) in 2007. Team was based on the passing game + pass rush, with some contributions from Jacobs and Bradshaw no doubt. Continued that same trend in 2011. Passing game + pass rush, with NO contributions from any running back. Literally had the worst ranked running game in the league (Jerry jones, you fool, you DO NOT take a running back 4th overall in today's game!!!) it's been proven that you don't need an all star running back to win the super bowl. Lynch was the best RB to win the SB in idk...the last 8 years?
Fast forward to the 2015 season, the Giants run game as I said was awful, but I'm thinking it had to do with a number of variables. For one, their running backs suck. Every single one of them. Jennings is the only one who is worth a damn as an every down back. For some insane reason (coughlin) The Giants went RBBC. This just made the rush even worse, as no one got enough touches to get comfortable. Randomly Williams would be thrown in, then darkwa, then Jennings, sometimes vereen. Frustrating to say the least. We saw the last 3 or 4 games the rush was actually there! Once they stopped the RBBC, and just gave Jennings the damn ball.
More on coughlin- as great as he was, he was one of the most stubborn coaches I have ever seen. He preached balance- he kept running and running and running even if the run game sucked. Much to the detriment of the team...extremely bullish. This kept the Giants from winning IMO more than they should have. That and the defense, which they obviously improved leaps and bounds this offseason...
Regardless, the ball should've been in Eli's hands more often than it was. Coughlin almost always went 50-50 pass/ran. Nonsense. The best player on your team should make the plays, it should've been more like 65-35. Don't be the Saints, but dammit stop rushing the ball so much. It wasn't working!! You can't completely abandon the rush, but stop forcing the issue. I think Macadoo knows Eli and the passing game are far superior to the rush game, so he's not going to force the run like Coughlin would.
To wrap this up, the Giants O line situation isn't as bleak as all of you think it is with some in-house options, + the draft ain't over. Linebacker is a much higher priority now that they knocked free safety out so I think LB comes in the 4th, then finally they'll get a developmental OL (preferably tackle) in the 5th. There was just no way One could justify using another top resource on the OL, they've drafted a first or second round offensive lineman like 3 or 4 years in a row. It would've been HORRIBLE drafting another OL that high, would've been terrible allocation of resources.
Love the draft so far, apple Shepard and Thompson are all young and explosive, and extremely talented with no character concerns. Add Vernon, snacks, Jenkins, bringing back JPP, and with the current drafted players...this offseason has been a dream for this Giants fan.
Their O line has 3 solid if not spectacular pieces already- Flowers-Pugh-Richburg. Flowers, obviously the least proven, has the most potential of the lot- to be a top of the line LT. The right side of the Giants line is what is perceived to be lacking, RG and RT. Well Hart is going to be the RG, as he showed promise playing there last season. Reese has basically said this. That leaves RT as the perceived question mark...
Eli had his best passing seasons the past 2 years, by far his most efficient seasons, behind a perceived "weak line." Macadoos offense is predicated on getting the ball out of Eli's hands
ASAP. This means that a "strong" O line isn't a priority. They gave up a very low amount of sacks last season. You don't have to block if the ball is out. You can effectively run the Giants offense without stout pass protection.
Now the rush was downright awful admittedly. But guess what?...
The NYFG laid the ground work on how to win in today's NFL (beat Tom Brady) in 2007. Team was based on the passing game + pass rush, with some contributions from Jacobs and Bradshaw no doubt. Continued that same trend in 2011. Passing game + pass rush, with NO contributions from any running back. Literally had the worst ranked running game in the league (Jerry jones, you fool, you DO NOT take a running back 4th overall in today's game!!!) it's been proven that you don't need an all star running back to win the super bowl. Lynch was the best RB to win the SB in idk...the last 8 years?
Fast forward to the 2015 season, the Giants run game as I said was awful, but I'm thinking it had to do with a number of variables. For one, their running backs suck. Every single one of them. Jennings is the only one who is worth a damn as an every down back. For some insane reason (coughlin) The Giants went RBBC. This just made the rush even worse, as no one got enough touches to get comfortable. Randomly Williams would be thrown in, then darkwa, then Jennings, sometimes vereen. Frustrating to say the least. We saw the last 3 or 4 games the rush was actually there! Once they stopped the RBBC, and just gave Jennings the damn ball.
More on coughlin- as great as he was, he was one of the most stubborn coaches I have ever seen. He preached balance- he kept running and running and running even if the run game sucked. Much to the detriment of the team...extremely bullish. This kept the Giants from winning IMO more than they should have. That and the defense, which they obviously improved leaps and bounds this offseason...
Regardless, the ball should've been in Eli's hands more often than it was. Coughlin almost always went 50-50 pass/ran. Nonsense. The best player on your team should make the plays, it should've been more like 65-35. Don't be the Saints, but dammit stop rushing the ball so much. It wasn't working!! You can't completely abandon the rush, but stop forcing the issue. I think Macadoo knows Eli and the passing game are far superior to the rush game, so he's not going to force the run like Coughlin would.
To wrap this up, the Giants O line situation isn't as bleak as all of you think it is with some in-house options, + the draft ain't over. Linebacker is a much higher priority now that they knocked free safety out so I think LB comes in the 4th, then finally they'll get a developmental OL (preferably tackle) in the 5th. There was just no way One could justify using another top resource on the OL, they've drafted a first or second round offensive lineman like 3 or 4 years in a row. It would've been HORRIBLE drafting another OL that high, would've been terrible allocation of resources.
Love the draft so far, apple Shepard and Thompson are all young and explosive, and extremely talented with no character concerns. Add Vernon, snacks, Jenkins, bringing back JPP, and with the current drafted players...this offseason has been a dream for this Giants fan.
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I do have an opinion. It is this: I don't know. But I am quite sure of one thing: you don't know either.
Have you ever heard that old axiom: "You need at least 2-3 minutes to evaluate a draft." You haven't because it doesn't exist. It's absurd to think you know anything about the success of a draft pick 12 seconds after it happens. You've been spoon fed old and new media draft evaluations and build-up, mock draft after mock draft, purely for marketing and business purposes. Almost all of those media folks and self-created experts don't know anything either. And you're about 52 steps down this chain, swallowing everything they feed you. And you've come out on the other end a confident expert, someone who can announce immediately whether a pick was good or bad and why. And then you have these back and forth discussions with others who don't know anything but have gone through the same spoon-feeding, and the more you discuss the more you think you know something you don't. In your mind, at this moment, it's obvious that draft picks were successes or failures and you better take a position on it. You're so steeped in this quasi-reality world that you have somehow mused into existence in your mind that somewhere in my previous posts I'm defending Jerry Reese, or even taken a position on him, or the draft.
Why even join a message board then with this type of thinking? So you have no opinion on this situation. You have no opinion then on the RU QB situation or with this type of thinking whether or not Ash is a competent coach. So your just here to tell everyone why their opinion holds no water for 4,867 posts and is just spoon feed media gossip. In all those 4,867 posts you have never taken a position yourself on the situation being discussed unless your an expert on it. Got it.[eyeroll] I sure hope I don't see you on any thread taking a position on anything related to RU athletics, because if you do aren't you really just admitting your a hypocrite. Unless your some type of proclaimed expert on the situation.
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Had no problem wanting to read ntlrock1's post after seeing you say don't apologize.
Without you saying that I probably wouldn't have, because I'm not a Giant fan .
edit: it was worth reading, at least for me it was.
Had no problem wanting to read ntlrock1's post after seeing you say don't apologize.
Without you saying that I probably wouldn't have, because I'm not a Giant fan .
edit: it was worth reading, at least for me it was.
Thanks bud. Appreciate that. I feel like it's a pretty accurate opinion and is pretty much in line with the Giants thinking, considering they finished the '16 draft without even drafting an OL. It was NOT a priority, there were way more pressing needs. It's been a great offseason giants fans, trust me.
I didn't, at least not one on the draft and in which folks make points about players they've never are barely ever followed based on talking points in the media. The RU comparison doesn't work, but enjoy monitoring my posts. Now please proceed stating immutable facts about that nickel back from Troy you heard a Mel Kiper wanna be talk about that one time. He had highlights and everything.
Then why even post in a thread if you have nothing constructive positive or negative to add? Why doesn't the RU comparison work? Because your some type of proclaimed professional expert on RU athletics? No I don't think so, it's more like you have opinions on those subjects and post them for all the world to see. But when someone else does it they're an uninformed idiot who believes everything the media tells them. I believe that's the definition of hypocrisy.
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I didn't look at the combine but i've seen both play numerous times & it seemed Hargraves was much faster.........
Maybe seemed faster, but Apple is in fact faster. I've seen Hargraves a couple of times, but I've seen apple a lot. Hargraves is not a press corner and he is not a great tackler. Both are important in the Giants scheme. Tackling is important in any scheme so you would expect a high number 1 to be a willing tackler. The thing that stands out in Hargraves is that he does not have makeup speed if a receiver gets beyond him. Apple does have the makeup speed.
The ranking service scores that I saw were so close that it's pointless to try to use that as a rational to say one is better than the other. Most analysts at this point have come around to agreeing with or at least accepting that the Giants may be right in their way of thinking on this pick for the reason he fits their scheme better because he can play press and he is a much better tackler..
My post isn't constructive but yours are? What exactly are you constructing? Make believe expertise?
Eh, why not. And it's particularly appropriate with another draft approaching and the media machine ready to generate more experts.
https://elitesportsny.com/2017/01/08/new-york-giants-eli-apple-fared-against-classmates-499/
This is not to say that It was obvious that Apple was the better choice, or that the Hargreaves kid will not ultimately have a better career. It's just to point out the silliness of the internet-driven proclamations of certainty about the future performance of NFL prospects. It's marketing, and, if you read enough of it and get goaded into watching video to support the opinions that they're baiting you to have, you come out on the other end having no better chance of successfully predicting things than a monkey with dart.
And how would they have done if they took Tunsil there? Apple might have been available in the second.
Billichek always seems to find starters.
Billichek always seems to find starters.