Duquesne's coach on Wheeler

[TheDude73]

We know what we’re going to get out of Wheeler at this point. Bring him off the bench for 20 minutes in an energy role.

Cason has the higher ceiling. The team has a higher ceiling with him. That jumper off the inbounds last night for three was a thing of beauty and showcases the things wheeler just can’t do.

I agree they both have value to our success this year. Without either of them, though, and we likely don't have as good of a chance in March.

But, let's not forget that Wallace had a few mishandles himself last night under the pressure from Duquesne. Tried to dribble through two defenders I believe 2-3 times, and two of those were turnovers.

We need them both to make it in March, for different reasons, IMO.

 

[Popquiz81]

You do know who got the assist on that shot, right?

and if the roles were reversed I know Wallace can make the same pass.

But I can tell you wheeler isn’t going to make that ****.

 

[TheDude73]

I’m confident we’d be just fine without him by the end of the year.

Please explain why you think he's a liability to this team?

Hint: Try using data and not anecdotes and gut feelings.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

Not yet. Cal keeps starting him over Reeves.

Livingston is playing well. Not forcing things. Hustling after loose balls. Rebounding. If anything, he should over Toppin right now when Oscar returns imo.

 

[thepip]

IL, you gotta calm down on Wheeler. We get it.

Yes there a couple people here who maybe don’t think he should play at all. Most of us really like him, we just don’t all agree on how we should utilize him.

Well, when you are a mod I guess that you have full rein or should I say range free.

 

[Popquiz81]

I agree they both have value to our success this year. Without either of them, though, and we likely don't have as good of a chance in March.

But, let's not forget that Wallace had a few mishandles himself last night under the pressure from Duquesne. Tried to dribble through two defenders I believe 2-3 times, and two of those were turnovers.

We need them both to make it in March, for different reasons, IMO.

Wallace is still learning. All Freshman Cal pg’s have a leaning curve with maybe the exception of Wall.

 

[BBNinSC_rivals62411]

Did you say that last year as well? And what happened?

The St. Peter’s loss was in no way Wheeler’s fault, if that’s what you’re implying. We have 4 great guards this season and I believe that is the key to number 9.

 

[TheDude73]

Wallace is still learning. All Freshman Cal pg’s have a leaning curve with maybe the exception of Wall.

I'm aware.

But again, both Wheeler and Wallace bring different, valuable competencies to our team. It's a nice way to change up the pace on defenses when they have to deal with a guard like Wheeler, a guard like Wallace, or in many cases, both at the same time.

And yes, overall Wallace is a much better shooter, we can all agree on that. Even the one three Wheeler hit last night was pretty ugly in form (feet set apart, awkward looking), and he's pretty crappy at that midrange. But he does have tenacity and a high propensity to get to the lane and dump off or do that one handed bank layup, which is kind of his bread and butter. He does occasionally try to do too much too quickly and gets into a bind - something he will need to improve on as we get into these better teams.

 

[bigsmoothie]

On Difficulty of containing Sahvir…
“Well, you know, we knew that if we didn’t guard, we were going to have problems. We did a poor job of guarding the ball, but that’s tribute to him. He’s a strong, tough, little guy that gets to where he wants to get and then shares the ball. That was probably the key to the game. We just didn’t guard the ball well. And then, when you don’t guard the ball well, with all that shooting they have and then the size inside, you’re scrambling.”

I don't think he got the memo from this message board on Wheeler. This nut job thinks Wheeler's play was the key to the game. He should just hang up his whistle, guy can't even see how crappy that kid is. Doesn't he know Wheeler hasn't won an NCAA tournament game? If he knew that, they would have been able to guard him for sure.

Every year this board chooses a whipping boy for the season. Sometimes two. Last year it was wheeler.

 

[king of cali]

I’ve seen him throw up enough bricks against St. Peter’s to build a house. Kids unreliable as a scorer.

He’s not meant to be a scorer, but he takes it upon himself when the scorers don’t have it going. And ultimately that is to the teams detriment.

You point out what he did against St. Peter’s without acknowledging that the scorers on that team other than Oscar didn’t bother to show up. My one nitpick with Wheeler is to play within himself and not try to be the hero when things aren’t going well.

 

[EliteBlue]

Maybe so. I let some irritate me, it's true. Truth is Wheeler is one of the keys to this team, whether he starts or comes off the bench. I guarantee you, teams planning to defend UK have to start by figuring out how to stop Wheeler from getting into the lane.

It irritates me as well. Last year the same little group was calling for TyTy to run point but our offense was stagnant without wheeler on the floor. He was the only person that could beat his man ti start the offense in Cals system (bc we don’t run a Princeton style offense..you need creators).

Some people can’t handle the occasional sloppy turnover but his Assist/Turnover ratio was still second in the SEC with a 2.27 ratio

 

[revcort]

I’ve seen him throw up enough bricks against St. Peter’s to build a house. Kids unreliable as a scorer.

You're either misremembering or just lying. He shot 4-8 from the floor against St Peter's. He scored 11 in that game and made 1-2 from 3. TyTy shot 2-10. Grady shot 1-9. Brooks shot 2-7. That's why we lost, not Wheeler.

People have been blaming Wheeler for that loss for so long, some think the lies must be true. I guess someone should petition to have the box score removed from the archives. Haha! Although, it doesn't really matter, nobody ever actually looks at it. They just assume the lies here must be true.

 

[Popquiz81]

St Peters gameplay was stellar: We can’t stop Oscar but we know we can stop those other guys.

And Cal played right into it.

 

[SparksCat]

It’s Duquesne guys. We find out what we are made of Tuesday night.

 

[Popquiz81]

It’s Duquesne guys. We find out what we are made of Tuesday night.

Since it’s looking more and more like Oscar isn’t going to play against Michigan State or Gonzaga I doubt it.

 

[SparksCat]

I thought it was a given we know what we have with Oscar

Let’s see how our other leaders do Tuesday night. I’m specifically referring to Wheeler (the topic of this thread) and Toppin

 

[Popquiz81]

I thought it was a given we know what we have with Oscar

Let’s see how our other leaders do Tuesday night. I’m specifically referring to Wheeler (the topic of this thread) and Toppin

If we have to count on Wheeler to beat those two teams we are in trouble.

They’re just going to sag off him and go under every ball screen, do what Duquesne did in the first half against CJ and just clamp him coming off any down screen.

 

[KDCats11]

Yep, 2 bad plays, 11 good plays. But here is the real question, and I've asked myself this many times. If you try to handcuff a guy like Wheeler and tell him to stop driving in so deep, do you lose the 11 good plays? Part of what makes Wheeler so dynamic is what also makes him frustrating at times. But you almost have to live with the mistakes in order to get those great plays. I'll take 11 and 2 every game. I have heard Calipari address it multiple times- play fast but don't hurry.

The people you're debating don't really know basketball. They're ball watchers, that's why Wheeler is their whipping boy, because he's the PG and has the most responsibility. They purposely don't acknowledge how important he is to the team in the name of being right on the internet.

 

[KDCats11]

Wheeler has played the game long enough now, he should know when to force the action and when to back it out.
We all saw last night where multiple times, he mindlessly drove into 4 defenders with nowhere to go and got trapped. Yeah, sometimes it worked out, but better opponents will swallow him up.
As I'm watching, I'm thinking to myself, where was he going there? Why is a senior trying to force something that isn't even close to a possibility?

It's fine to admit you don't know basketball and move on. There's no need to continuously embarrass yourself, I promise.

 

[SparksCat]

Yes, I agree.

The moderator is stating as fact that we won’t do well without Wheeler.

My point is let’s see if our team does well if Wheeler is not allowed to drive by the other teams defense

Let’s see how Toppin does as well

We know Michigan State plays tough physical defense. Our guys should be ready Tuesday. We will see

 

[Uk2k4]

In kindergarten terms, any coach with a brain and who is playing with their season on the line, will play a defensive scheme that makes him shoot. And we will struggle.

How hard is that to comprehend?

 

[revcort]

Yes, I agree.

The moderator is stating as fact that we won’t do well without Wheeler.

My point is let’s see if our team does well if Wheeler is not allowed to drive by the other teams defense

Let’s see how Toppin does as well

We know Michigan State plays tough physical defense. Our guys should be ready Tuesday. We will see

Never said any such thing. The team already proved it could win, and win well, without Wheeler. All I've said is that he has earned the right to start and lead this team. Most of posts have been reactions to those continually dogging Wheeler. That's it. I love Wallace and the rest of the team. I'm wanting ALL of them to do well. I'm going to be cheering on all of them.

 

[Rockfly78]

Wallace will always be more effective than wheeler bc of size and defense alone. The kid had a nasty swat after a bad turnover. That’s an automatic 2 points vs wheeler.

I love how you underplayed that he first turned the ball over. Lol. It proves that you see what you want to see

 

[Rockfly78]

Wallace is still learning. All Freshman Cal pg’s have a leaning curve with maybe the exception of Wall.

This is why wheeler has to be the guy at this point in the season. If Wallace is gonna take the spot then he will do it later in the year and it will be organic.

 

[TortElvisII]

The St. Peter’s loss was in no way Wheeler’s fault, if that’s what you’re implying. We have 4 great guards this season and I believe that is the key to number 9.

Those missed Ft's late...

2:57 to go Kentucky up. 75-72, Wheeler clanks two. Down one late he throws the ball away trying to get it to Oscar.

 

[kyjeff1]

It's fine to admit you don't know basketball and move on. There's no need to continuously embarrass yourself, I promise.

Tell me you don't understand what you're watching without telling me you don't know what you're watching.

I mean, you can't possibly be this blind.

 

[Crawfords Corner]

We certainly won't win with Wheeler hunting 12-15 shots every game. Shots that can go to Reeves/Livingston/Fredrick/Oscar. He played really well last night outside of a few occasions where he got stuck near the basket with too much dribbling. 5-8 shots is perfect for him. It can be enough to keep the defense honest along with his assist making ability.

 

[Bkocats]

I love Weller!

Me too!

 

[Bkocats]

I like Wheeler..kid doesn’t quit. Has flaws as we all do, but I like him
IMO none of our players should be the “whipping boy”
That title should go to the one who actually deserves it

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

On Difficulty of containing Sahvir…
“Well, you know, we knew that if we didn’t guard, we were going to have problems. We did a poor job of guarding the ball, but that’s tribute to him. He’s a strong, tough, little guy that gets to where he wants to get and then shares the ball. That was probably the key to the game. We just didn’t guard the ball well. And then, when you don’t guard the ball well, with all that shooting they have and then the size inside, you’re scrambling.”

I don't think he got the memo from this message board on Wheeler. This nut job thinks Wheeler's play was the key to the game. He should just hang up his whistle, guy can't even see how crappy that kid is. Doesn't he know Wheeler hasn't won an NCAA tournament game? If he knew that, they would have been able to guard him for sure.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

I like Wheeler..kid doesn’t quit. Has flaws as we all do, but I like him
IMO none of our players should be the “whipping boy”
That title should go to the one who actually deserves it

The only one who deserves any kinda criticism at the moment is Ware but I still love him and he’s our enforcer but he shouldn’t play when Oscar returns.

 

[kelzer]

I'm to the point where I don't have the energy to follow these threads in their entirety, so I apologize if anyone has already pointed out that the official box score has Wheeler's +/- as +32. The 2nd best on the team was +20.

+32 means that when he was in, we outscored Duquesne by 32 points. We won by 25. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this imply that when Wheeler *wasn't* in the game we were outscored by 7?

 

[senonesy]

Having shooters to kick it to is the critical difference. When TyTy and Grady were healthy, it worked well (Kansas). When they weren’t it was fugly (St Peter’s).

This .

 

[fatguy87]

Wheeler's propensity for making missed shots look horrendous and his obligatory "WTF were you thinking" pass distorts our assessment. Those mistakes still only count for 1 missed shot and 1 turnover but they feel like 5 lol.

 

[kelzer]

Wheeler's propensity for making missed shots look horrendous and his obligatory "WTF were you thinking" pass distorts our assessment. Those mistakes still only count for 1 missed shot and 1 turnover but they feel like 5 lol.

A lot of truth to this.

Wheeler's 2nd 3-point attempt (the one he made) came in the flow of the offense, and he was set and squared up to the basket. His first attempt was 2-3 feet beyond the arc, and wasn't really in the flow of the game.

Both shots were ugly, but the first was uglier.

Regarding his turnovers - his teammates could help a lot if they would see him driving and then make an effort to get open for him and be a target. Instead they tend to just stand there with their man covering them and aren't open, so Wheeler is stuck either throwing the ball away or taking a horrible shot. I saw a lot of this last year too.

His 2nd turnover occurred because both Reeves and Wallace were just standing around with their men on them, so Wheeler threw the ball between them and hoped one of them would get to it.

 

[jameslee32]

On Difficulty of containing Sahvir…
“Well, you know, we knew that if we didn’t guard, we were going to have problems. We did a poor job of guarding the ball, but that’s tribute to him. He’s a strong, tough, little guy that gets to where he wants to get and then shares the ball. That was probably the key to the game. We just didn’t guard the ball well. And then, when you don’t guard the ball well, with all that shooting they have and then the size inside, you’re scrambling.”

I don't think he got the memo from this message board on Wheeler. This nut job thinks Wheeler's play was the key to the game. He should just hang up his whistle, guy can't even see how crappy that kid is. Doesn't he know Wheeler hasn't won an NCAA tournament game? If he knew that, they would have been able to guard him for sure.

Easy kemosabe. Probably best to ignore the haters.

 

[KYFOSSIL]

Well, he's right, Wheeler can kill you if you don't cage him in, the problem with Wheeler is he'll make a great play, then follow it up with two plays where he overpenetrates, jumps in the air and throws the ball away.
At this point in his career, he should know when to force the action and when to back out and run offense from the top.
I love seeing him in there, he just needs to play smarter.

The Duquesne coach isn't going to critique our guys the way we would, so it's really not fair to call out "the Wheeler haters", whoever they are.

Wallace and Reeves and Toppin all had bonehead plays

 

[kyjeff1]

Wallace and Reeves and Toppin all had bonehead plays

Cool

 

[KYFOSSIL]

You are missing the point. There is an intense focuse on wheelers turnover by many on here that wont even mentioned he had a great game when Toppin, reeves and wallace were at least as sloppy and mainly crickets about it

 

[revcort]

You are missing the point. There is an intense focuse on wheelers turnover by many on here that wont even mentioned he had a great game when Toppin, reeves and wallace were at least as sloppy and mainly crickets about it

Exactly. Wheeler is the chosen whipping boy this season. It's a shame.