Duke vs Virginia Union

[Ryan Lemonds Hair]

Morgousky im really not trying to change the subject or keep my head in the sand. I promise I’m not. I seriously don’t understand what it is you’re trying to say. Are you saying K PREFERS white players over black players? Are you saying he likes to have white players on the team at all times because you think he believes it helps more with the Duke image?

Leattner and Hurley 91-92
Dunleavy 2001
Sheyer, Singler and Plumlees in 2010
Grayson Allen 2015

All of the aforementioned players (to name a few) have had a significant role in Duke winning the national title in the referenced years.

Are you saying that K has other motives for recruiting white players beyond winning? Do you believe some sort of quota must exist?

Why else would anyone have recruited the Plumlee's?

 

[Jacket4]

This morgan guy lost all credibility on this discussion when he said Rupp wasn't racist. Even most UK fans will admit that. But thats not a knock on him as a coach the man won in an era dominated by mostly white teams, hate him as much as i do can't deny he could coach. Nor should this be a knock against modern day UK. Those days racism was rampant in just about every major program Duke included. (I just personally don't like UK playing in an arena named after him, we will take down Confederate statues due to racisim but ignore it in basketball just my opinion)

K, Cal, just about every coach that wants to win will recruit a kid based on talent. Race really has nothing to do with it. Your perception of duke being a white dominant school is based off what the media has fed you. As i said for every significant white duke player there has been a black player just as important if not more on the team.

 

[Ben101er]

This morgan guy lost all credibility on this discussion when he said Rupp wasn't racist. Even most UK fans will admit that. But thats not a knock on him as a coach the man won in an era dominated by mostly white teams, hate him as much as i do can't deny he could coach. Nor should this be a knock against modern day UK. Those days racism was rampant in just about every major program Duke included. (I just personally don't like UK playing in an arena named after him, we will take down Confederate statues due to racisim but ignore it in basketball just my opinion)

K, Cal, just about every coach that wants to win will recruit a kid based on talent. Race really has nothing to do with it. Your perception of duke being a white dominant school is based off what the media has fed you. As i said for every significant white duke player there has been a black player just as important if not more on the team.

If you investigate Rupp a little, instead of taking the ESPN version as hard evidence, you may find that Rupp was not a racist, but more of a person of his times. Being a member of the SEC, he could not take a black player to any of the away games, because the kid couldn't stay with the team. He had to stay in another hotel. Rupp had to promise a mother that her son would not be in any danger while in his care, and he couldn't do that knowing he had to take his team to Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, etc. If you will be open-minded enough to actually look into this, instead of just quoting others who keep promoting this skewed view, I think you will find that Adolph went out of his way to help black players get scholarships, take them onto all-star teams he coached, and was fair. When he coached HS, he had several black players on his team. Did he just become racist when he came to UK? Of course not. In today's society, where everyone is labeled as sexist, racist, facist, extremist, etc. it just seems that it is easier for the media to call Rupp racist, than to actually investigate to find the truth. Trying to hurt UK doesn't help, either.

 

[LadyCaytIL]

Dude...he won't even be able to guard PJ Washington...much less any other big we have. He will have a few dunks and that's it. Hes not a post player...hes 6'6

Hayes was only 6'6 and he did damn well in the post. L. Baxter was really not even 6'6 .. more like 6'5 if not shorter and was a star post player for Maryland that won a title. Charles Barkley... etc. We dont know yet if Zion can do the things he does against players taller than him because so far they've all been shorter than him this fall but the guy has an amazing skill to where he can contort his body and make difficult shots down low look easy.

 

[seccats04]

Because it's a fact that some fans feel that way. And yes, I have heard fans allude to it; even on here. Plenty of posters stated that they will identify with him more because he's white and are super excited we finally have a "good white" player. There were endless post about Herro all summer. Far more than other players, and in large part simply because of his race. Look, I am excited as any to have him because he is a good player, but to be more excited because of his skin color is ignorant and exactly the type of reference Rex was pointing out. There is a reason it triggered so many people when he said it.

"Why put that on Tyler. He just wants to play basketball at Kentucky and be the best he can be. He does not need to be labeled because his game will define him.." You realize this is exactly why he said it, correct? Seems like you agree with Rex a lot more than you realize or want to admit.

No different than when black people were proud that Barack Hussein O became President. Nothing wrong with showing a little pride. But white guilt has gotten out of hand from both sides.

 

[LadyCaytIL]

Am I not allowed to love my son? he's white unfortunately ..... dont wanna be racist

Lets stop fudging pretending ......... its about UK....... and our fans. If this was any other school no one would give a crap but people want UK fans to feel guilty or bad . No one is making UVA fans guilty for loving Kyle Mann...... No one tried to make UNC fans feel guilty for loving Hansbrough .............

 

[LadyCaytIL]

Just informed my wife of the bad news we have to divorce. She didnt understand that we can only have people of other colors be special to us.. Any female asians around... ? I'm gonna be looking for a new wife it seems

 

[John Henry]

Just informed my wife of the bad news we have to divorce. She didnt understand that we can only have people of other colors be special to us.. Any female asians around... ? I'm gonna be looking for a new wife it seems

Life throws one a curve at times. But don't feel bad because this is an illness that is threatening families all over America. Be careful with the Asians though. They are discriminated against at Harvard University so if you have a child who turns out to be brilliant (good chance with Asians genes) he/she might have to go to a Junior College. Too smart for the Ivy League.

 

[FLawLesS_NoLe]

What is this thread? 4 pages of race bait trash.

Anyways good game by Duke. RJ and Zion showed out. I would say at this point I predict UK 84 - Duke 80. Close game and will be fun. Duke needs to work on their transition defense if they want to become truly special. It was pretty bad that game.

 

[kyups01]

Hayes was only 6'6 and he did damn well in the post. L. Baxter was really not even 6'6 .. more like 6'5 if not shorter and was a star post player for Maryland that won a title. Charles Barkley... etc. We dont know yet if Zion can do the things he does against players taller than him because so far they've all been shorter than him this fall but the guy has an amazing skill to where he can contort his body and make difficult shots down low look easy.

Good points....no question williamson is gonna be a load. I just hate coach K and Duke and hate even more they are gonn get away with playing him when he should be ineligible

 

[WildcatFanDad1205]

I went to school with 2 guys who like Duke. Both admit the reason they like duke is because they always have “white guys who light it up”

And I really don’t have a problem with that. But I never understand why it’s a point never brought up about K when 99.9% of everything today is racist.

Coach K is the only man in America who can walk into a building of 97 black kids and 3 white kids.....walk out with 3 white kids and never be questioned about it.

And it’s not academics which is what most of them want to silently push ( they fit our system, translation: Academics.

But Duke Doesn’t have those standards for basketball players. He has intentionally sought out white players.

Again, I have no problem with it because not everything is racist to me. I don’t think he does it because he hates black people. But in this day and age, how is it always forgotten.

Until recently anyway, when he decided he’d do whatever it takes to try and win on his way out.

It was just always curious to me how this works. We still get nailed for having a lot of white players 30 years ago and Dukes never questioned about it at all.

That is an interesting take for sure. I grew up in eastern ky; a place always looked at by outsiders as being a wasteland for racists. However, I never really noticed anything like that, although I am certain that if I were black perhaps there are some situations that may make me put up my antennas; where as being a white man I never thought anything of it.
My only question to you about the whole Duke thing would be, how would you explain their 92 team? I ask that because it was perhaps their most "whitest" team ever with Laettner and Hurley as the forefront. However, on that team you also had Grant Hill, Brian Davis, Thomas Hill, Antonio Lang, and those are just the black players that I remember.
Don't get me wrong, I respect your opinion; I just find that I feel Coach K most likely only cares about winning, versus what color a kid is. Would you consider programs like Wisconsin and Stanford racist? They both typically have a lot of white players on their teams as well.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

Hayes was only 6'6 and he did damn well in the post. L. Baxter was really not even 6'6 .. more like 6'5 if not shorter and was a star post player for Maryland that won a title. Charles Barkley... etc. We dont know yet if Zion can do the things he does against players taller than him because so far they've all been shorter than him this fall but the guy has an amazing skill to where he can contort his body and make difficult shots down low look easy.

Zion is legit. We all wanted him and he is a great player. I hope he sucks against us and we beat Duke in the ground but I won't say unfounded things about him as he is actually way more complete than I ever imagined he would be. His stamina is his main issue imo.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

No different than when black people were proud that Barack Hussein O became President. Nothing wrong with showing a little pride. But white guilt has gotten out of hand from both sides.

Yes it seems that whites supporting whites is racist now. White pride is nazism and it is ridiculous.

 

[TomTraubertsBlues]

This morgan guy lost all credibility on this discussion when he said Rupp wasn't racist. Even most UK fans will admit that. But thats not a knock on him as a coach the man won in an era dominated by mostly white teams, hate him as much as i do can't deny he could coach. Nor should this be a knock against modern day UK. Those days racism was rampant in just about every major program Duke included. (I just personally don't like UK playing in an arena named after him, we will take down Confederate statues due to racisim but ignore it in basketball just my opinion)

K, Cal, just about every coach that wants to win will recruit a kid based on talent. Race really has nothing to do with it. Your perception of duke being a white dominant school is based off what the media has fed you. As i said for every significant white duke player there has been a black player just as important if not more on the team.

Um, I don't think you are in a position to speak for most UK fans. I'm 55, but I don't even remember seeing Rupp on the sidelines. I'm sure I did, but wasn't really old enough to make any informed decision about the man. But please, show us the apparent mountain of evidence that shows he was a racist.

 

[Lovebaskelball]

Um, I don't think you are in a position to speak for most UK fans. I'm 55, but I don't even remember seeing Rupp on the sidelines. I'm sure I did, but wasn't really old enough to make any informed decision about the man. But please, show us the apparent mountain of evidence that shows he was a racist.

I bet 1.0 was old enough.

 

[TomTraubertsBlues]

You're clearly speaking emotionally which is fine. This can be an emotional topic. Let me be clear by saying i don't think UK is now a racist program now. Arena aside. Since K has been at Duke if you went through and named off each of his team and the so call white players he recruited i bet you i can name off two or more black players that was just as good if not better that he recruited. The only reason people get this K wants white players perception is because of the media attention good white duke players gets and how K will go through great lnks to help the kid deal with it. As he does for any of his players.

Take Allen for example. Kid made bad mistakes but was good enough to garner national attention even though he was never the best player on any of the 4 duke teams he played on. Kid was a medias dreamboat, white duke player that cant control his emotions. But when you think Duke the past 3 years most people think Allen and tripping and other stuff because the media blew him up.

He blew himself up by acting like a child. Having emotions is fine, but very few players show that emotion by repeatedly tripping other players.

 

[Rush2112 UK]

Curious that no one is mentioning that the game is being played in Indy and that UK will have at least 14-15,000 maniacs in there. With significant advantages in depth, shooting and experience- plus a home crowd- Kentucky will kick their frosh asses.

 

[Lovebaskelball]

Curious that no one is mentioning that the game is being played in Indy and that UK will have at least 14-15,000 maniacs in there. With significant advantages in depth, shooting and experience- plus a home crowd- Kentucky will kick their frosh asses.

Those asses will not know what hit 'em.

 

[DevilFan1989]

Duke is the only blue blood that goes after and lands so many white kids. Why? Just happens? Sure. Maybe next year it’ll just “happen” out of the clear blue for UK and we’ll land 4 white kids. Lol.

What in the world are you blabbing on about? Duke's 4 best players this year are black.

 

[DevilFan1989]

Will he be a better college player than Keldon Johnson? A dude that does it on both ends of the court, and plays with 1000x more energy?

Dude just stop, Reddish is higher rated than Barrett according to nearly every recruiting index. He is higher on the draft boards too.

 

[DevilFan1989]

https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2018-final

1. Barrett
2. Reddish
4. Zion
12. Keldon Johnson
13. Ashton Hagans
14. Tre Jones

UK fans can spin it however they want but the hoops experts around the country rate Tre and Ashton as being similar quality PGs and Reddish to be better than Keldon Johnson.

If you want to say that Travis, PJ and Quade have more experience, then sure but you're ignoring Javin DeLaurier who's a quality upperclassmen for Duke that's been a better rebounder than Travis in the time he's been on the court.

You guys are way overrating depth. You can only play 5 players at once. It"ll be Hagans/Herro/KJ/PJ/Travis for UK at crunch time vs Trae/Barrett/Reddish/Zion/Javin so that's the comparison that matters here.

 

[Beenfamous02]

Dude just stop, Reddish is higher rated than Barrett according to nearly every recruiting index. He is higher on the draft boards too.

I don’t give a **** what draft boards you’re going by. I’m talking about right now, in college. Barrett is your best player, not Reddish.

 

[UKCAT5FAN]

What he’s saying is a senior In travis and A sophomore in Pj will be more impactful than Freshman led stars at Duke. We’re talking about 10 months here, on a college floor. Zion dunking on open floors and 6th graders isn’t happening anymore. Zion rebounding at 6’6 over our college bigs when he’s never faced real competition might not happen in 10 months. Barrett might be the most talented player in the class, but he’s raw.

Neither of those two are as impactful as AD because neither are defensive juggernauts.

Would I trade Barrett and Johnson and Zion and Pj? With our team, probably because we’ve got other upperclassman and bigs which would allow them to showcase. But it’s not a guarantee that when they are shouldering the load for Duke as 18 year olds with little supporting cast that they’re going to dominate.

Like he said, in 5 years probbaly. But on a college court who knows.

I get his premise. I get what hes saying as far as impacting categories of the team. My point was that great players impact the game greatly. Do we have a better player than Barrett? At least Barrett come March? I'm not so sure Morg and that's not knocking any of our players, just giving props where it is deserved. The best players impact the game in various ways and not all of them show up in the stats category. My point was just that all great players are impactful and his comment stating it is delusional to think that Duke has the 3 best players is absurd. It's not delusional to think they have the best 3 players. That's all I was responding to. I think we have the better compliment of winning players on our team. Do they have the 3 best individual players? Maybe so but I think we have the best players that play winning basketball and the players that do what is necessary to win basketball games. I would rather have a collection of winning players that make winning plays rather than the 3 best players that do alot of the same things great. Actually, he may be saying the same thing I am just in a different way. Lol. But anyway, I like our team!!!

 

[BlueDevilWildcat]

All I know is that if Duke doesn't at least make the F4 with (potentially) 3 top 10 draft picks, K should just hang it up. Having a high lotto pick at 3 of the 5 positions, really hard to see how that doesn't work.

Although agree that I'd give UK the edge in a couple of weeks. Duke won't have seen anywhere close to that level of defensive pressure.

https://247sports.com/LongFormArtic...rett-leads-ranking-of-best-players-123707926/

 

[1991greywildcat]

All I know is that if Duke doesn't at least make the F4 with (potentially) 3 top 10 draft picks, K should just hang it up. Having a high lotto pick at 3 of the 5 positions, really hard to see how that doesn't work.

Although agree that I'd give UK the edge in a couple of weeks. Duke won't have seen anywhere close to that level of defensive pressure.

https://247sports.com/LongFormArtic...rett-leads-ranking-of-best-players-123707926/

Just looking at rankings on a paper and not the overall picture of your team.. You better hope your "big three" can get to the rim at will, only for sure offense you will have..

 

[DidneyWorl]

All I know is that if Duke doesn't at least make the F4 with (potentially) 3 top 10 draft picks, K should just hang it up. Having a high lotto pick at 3 of the 5 positions, really hard to see how that doesn't work.

Although agree that I'd give UK the edge in a couple of weeks. Duke won't have seen anywhere close to that level of defensive pressure.

https://247sports.com/LongFormArtic...rett-leads-ranking-of-best-players-123707926/

3 lottos. lol.

 

[UKRuppster]

Duke is going to be good, but it's going to take time.

Five brand new starters. Four are Freshmen. They will win a lot games early because they will just out talent other teams. They will struggle in January and early February against ACC competition, then start figuring it out. By March, they will be a tough out in the tourney.

As for the first game against UK, I think it will be a close game, but UK's depth will wear them down.

UK wins by 6-8.

Pretty much what I think happens. My guess is it's a relatively close first half and then UK goes on a nice run to open the second half, threatening to run Duke out of the gym. But the Cats take the foot off the gas a bit and go cold from the field while Duke hits a few threes to get back in it. However, Duke wears down after getting the lead down to two possessions and UK wins by that 6-8 point margin.

 

[Aike]

https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2018-final

1. Barrett
2. Reddish
4. Zion
12. Keldon Johnson
13. Ashton Hagans
14. Tre Jones

UK fans can spin it however they want but the hoops experts around the country rate Tre and Ashton as being similar quality PGs and Reddish to be better than Keldon Johnson.

If you want to say that Travis, PJ and Quade have more experience, then sure but you're ignoring Javin DeLaurier who's a quality upperclassmen for Duke that's been a better rebounder than Travis in the time he's been on the court.

You guys are way overrating depth. You can only play 5 players at once. It"ll be Hagans/Herro/KJ/PJ/Travis for UK at crunch time vs Trae/Barrett/Reddish/Zion/Javin so that's the comparison that matters here.

Lol. Keep telling yourself that depth doesn’t matter. Idiotic.

 

[UKRuppster]

If Zion has to sit out games

[pfftt] He's got nothing to worry about at Duke. Now if he went to Kansas...

So Zion elbowed the opponent in the chin and guess what they called lol

Virginia Union isn't used to 5 on 8

Bolden will play like Kareem

Maybe so if UK brings their women's team instead of the men's team.


Mighty #347 in the CBS rankings of all 353 teams!

 

[bucsrule8872]

https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2018-final

1. Barrett
2. Reddish
4. Zion
12. Keldon Johnson
13. Ashton Hagans
14. Tre Jones

UK fans can spin it however they want but the hoops experts around the country rate Tre and Ashton as being similar quality PGs and Reddish to be better than Keldon Johnson.

If you want to say that Travis, PJ and Quade have more experience, then sure but you're ignoring Javin DeLaurier who's a quality upperclassmen for Duke that's been a better rebounder than Travis in the time he's been on the court.

You guys are way overrating depth. You can only play 5 players at once. It"ll be Hagans/Herro/KJ/PJ/Travis for UK at crunch time vs Trae/Barrett/Reddish/Zion/Javin so that's the comparison that matters here.

Okafor ranked higher than KAT before the '15 season. So rankings only matter up to a point.

And if DeLaurier is on the same level as Washington, Green, and Travis, then Duke goes 40-0 this season.

 

[LadyCaytIL]

If someone thinks Delaurier is on level of our bigs....... dont even bother arguing because their devil tinted glasses are too thick to see reality.

 

[kl40504_rivals]

This morgan guy lost all credibility on this discussion when he said Rupp wasn't racist. Even most UK fans will admit that. But thats not a knock on him as a coach the man won in an era dominated by mostly white teams, hate him as much as i do can't deny he could coach. Nor should this be a knock against modern day UK. Those days racism was rampant in just about every major program Duke included. (I just personally don't like UK playing in an arena named after him, we will take down Confederate statues due to racisim but ignore it in basketball just my opinion)

K, Cal, just about every coach that wants to win will recruit a kid based on talent. Race really has nothing to do with it. Your perception of duke being a white dominant school is based off what the media has fed you. As i said for every significant white duke player there has been a black player just as important if not more on the team.

Duke used to be lilly white also. They have nothing to brag about.

 

[Beenfamous02]

Good points....no question williamson is gonna be a load. I just hate coach K and Duke and hate even more they are gonn get away with playing him when he should be ineligible

Was a good selling point. Duke doesn’t get investigated.

 

[Poetax]

This morgan guy lost all credibility on this discussion when he said Rupp wasn't racist. Even most UK fans will admit that. But thats not a knock on him as a coach the man won in an era dominated by mostly white teams, hate him as much as i do can't deny he could coach. Nor should this be a knock against modern day UK. Those days racism was rampant in just about every major program Duke included. (I just personally don't like UK playing in an arena named after him, we will take down Confederate statues due to racisim but ignore it in basketball just my opinion)

K, Cal, just about every coach that wants to win will recruit a kid based on talent. Race really has nothing to do with it. Your perception of duke being a white dominant school is based off what the media has fed you. As i said for every significant white duke player there has been a black player just as important if not more on the team.

Oh my, a new troll. How shocking.

 

[carbonlib23]

Why else would anyone have recruited the Plumlee's?

all three Plumlee brothers have national championship rings....

 

[Ryan Lemonds Hair]

all three Plumlee brothers have national championship rings....

So does Bryan Long and Sam Malone but that don't mean they are great players.

 

[TheBigBlueHerro]

No different than when black people were proud that Barack Hussein O became President. Nothing wrong with showing a little pride. But white guilt has gotten out of hand from both sides.

Ehhhh, I think you may find it's quite a bit different. I think you'll find he was the first black president in US history. In a country that allowed slavery of black people for centuries and took another century to get equal protections and rights. I think that's probably quite a bit bigger deal than another white basketball player joining a team that historically has had a lot of white players be successful. Most black people don't identify with him solely based on race, but it was historical that someone identifying as a race that had never been represented in that office was finally able to achieve it after centuries of not even having the right, or any rights.

Could a brunette only identify with a brunette player, or ginger with a ginger? Why limit it to skin color? Why not hair color, eye color?

 

[TheBigBlueHerro]

https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2018-final

1. Barrett
2. Reddish
4. Zion
12. Keldon Johnson
13. Ashton Hagans
14. Tre Jones

UK fans can spin it however they want but the hoops experts around the country rate Tre and Ashton as being similar quality PGs and Reddish to be better than Keldon Johnson.

If you want to say that Travis, PJ and Quade have more experience, then sure but you're ignoring Javin DeLaurier who's a quality upperclassmen for Duke that's been a better rebounder than Travis in the time he's been on the court.

You guys are way overrating depth. You can only play 5 players at once. It"ll be Hagans/Herro/KJ/PJ/Travis for UK at crunch time vs Trae/Barrett/Reddish/Zion/Javin so that's the comparison that matters here.

Would these be the same experts who rated Duval higher than SGA just last year? How did that work out again? opcorn:

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

https://sites.google.com/site/rscihoops/home/2018-final

1. Barrett
2. Reddish
4. Zion
12. Keldon Johnson
13. Ashton Hagans
14. Tre Jones

UK fans can spin it however they want but the hoops experts around the country rate Tre and Ashton as being similar quality PGs and Reddish to be better than Keldon Johnson.

If you want to say that Travis, PJ and Quade have more experience, then sure but you're ignoring Javin DeLaurier who's a quality upperclassmen for Duke that's been a better rebounder than Travis in the time he's been on the court.

You guys are way overrating depth. You can only play 5 players at once. It"ll be Hagans/Herro/KJ/PJ/Travis for UK at crunch time vs Trae/Barrett/Reddish/Zion/Javin so that's the comparison that matters here.

I'm fairly certain your starting fives were better than South Carolina and Kansas the last two years, too. How'd that work out for you?


I'm disappointed in you. I thought you were not one of those guys who so easily dismisses the complexity of what it actually takes to win a basketball game.

And this call to buy stock in DeLaurier is the weirdest argument I've ever seen from a Duke fan. Whatever helps you guys sleep at night as you visually try to construct a complete team in your minds...

 

[Jakarii]

I have zero doubt Zion can do the same Vs bigger players. When he was at Adidas nations he played Vs bigger top players in those games and against some college big guys when they had their games after the Adidas games and Zion scored almost easier because he takes bigger guys off the dribble. Did the same as a soph at the NBPA camp where all the PF and C were taller than him and got MVP.

The thing some ignore is the fact that he is very quick and handles the ball very well for a PF. He’s basically like those prototypes that tenn has except more athletic and stronger. Also like a more athletic Bonzie Colson but doesn’t shoot as well. But if you watch Bonzie he didn’t kill you with being a great shooter.

Also I played with Lonny Baxter, he wasn’t that tall but he was a legit 6’6 and some change without shoes, people put too much emphasis in height but if you are strong and have post moves you can score on bigs as easily as y’all guys can. The issue happens when you are at a stand still and go straight up with a big but basketball is a moving sport so you rarely have that happen

Hayes was only 6'6 and he did damn well in the post. L. Baxter was really not even 6'6 .. more like 6'5 if not shorter and was a star post player for Maryland that won a title. Charles Barkley... etc. We dont know yet if Zion can do the things he does against players taller than him because so far they've all been shorter than him this fall but the guy has an amazing skill to where he can contort his body and make difficult shots down low look easy.