Duke vs Virginia Union

[UKDC80]

Listen. I don’t give a dam if they have the two best players in college. 2 guys can’t do it all. They have to have a supporting cast to be a great TEAM. Duke will not be. UK IS a great TEAM. And that’s all that freaking matters. And Nov 6th you will see a complete squad against a few dudes. If their shots aren’t hitting at a ridiculous rate, UK is going to run their asses off the floor. Book it.

 

[Duke Bluu]

Morgousky im really not trying to change the subject or keep my head in the sand. I promise I’m not. I seriously don’t understand what it is you’re trying to say. Are you saying K PREFERS white players over black players? Are you saying he likes to have white players on the team at all times because you think he believes it helps more with the Duke image?

Leattner and Hurley 91-92
Dunleavy 2001
Sheyer, Singler and Plumlees in 2010
Grayson Allen 2015

All of the aforementioned players (to name a few) have had a significant role in Duke winning the national title in the referenced years.

Are you saying that K has other motives for recruiting white players beyond winning? Do you believe some sort of quota must exist?

 

[Duke Bluu]

Listen. I don’t give a dam if they have the two best players in college. 2 guys can’t do it all. They have to have a supporting cast to be a great TEAM. Duke will not be. UK IS a great TEAM. And that’s all that freaking matters. And Nov 6th you will see a complete squad against a few dudes. If their shots aren’t hitting at a ridiculous rate, UK is going to run their asses off the floor. Book it.

I’m of the opinion that if you have three all star/dominant/(insert other adjective) players on a team in college that you need good role players surrounding them who know their roles. Jones is a very good point guard and like Tyus at this time in 2015, NOBODY knows how good the kid can be.

I think Javin, White, O’Connell and Bolden are all capable ROLE players who can rebound, hit open shots from time to time, get put backs and alter shots.

You don’t need to have 1-10 be 1st rounders. Sure it’s awesome to have what Kentucky has. Who wouldn’t want that? But do you need that? No you don’t. That’s been proven quite often

 

[morgousky]

Morgousky im really not trying to change the subject or keep my head in the sand. I promise I’m not. I seriously don’t understand what it is you’re trying to say. Are you saying K PREFERS white players over black players? Are you saying he likes to have white players on the team at all times because you think he believes it helps more with the Duke image?

Leattner and Hurley 91-92
Dunleavy 2001
Sheyer, Singler and Plumlees in 2010
Grayson Allen 2015

All of the aforementioned players (to name a few) have had a significant role in Duke winning the national title in the referenced years.

Are you saying that K has other motives for recruiting white players beyond winning? Do you believe some sort of quota must exist?

My main question is in this day and age how the hell has it not been a topic of discussion when a top coach and a top program somehow
Ends up whiter than the others, just about year to year? I just would have thought more people especially at ESPN would have an issue with it? Or ask why?

Instead UK is ran through the mud over our teams being too white 60 years ago and somehow K hair strolls on through with the white breads, in an age where it’s nearly impossible at this level to do so.

I’ve said it 4 times. You don’t have to answer.

 

[ABlockalypseBrow]

Morgousky im really not trying to change the subject or keep my head in the sand. I promise I’m not. I seriously don’t understand what it is you’re trying to say. Are you saying K PREFERS white players over black players? Are you saying he likes to have white players on the team at all times because you think he believes it helps more with the Duke image?

Leattner and Hurley 91-92
Dunleavy 2001
Sheyer, Singler and Plumlees in 2010
Grayson Allen 2015

All of the aforementioned players (to name a few) have had a significant role in Duke winning the national title in the referenced years.

Are you saying that K has other motives for recruiting white players beyond winning? Do you believe some sort of quota must exist?

Whether Coach K personally has an agenda with regard to recruiting white players, I have no idea, I’m no mind reader. But I feel that the predominance of white and/or upper class players there has played a role in the predominantly east coast-based sports media’s presumption that Duke is the program that does things the “right” way.

This is the same sports media that assumes Kentucky is racist for not preferring a mediocre coach, simply because they’re a school in Kentucky.

So has it helped Coach K? Absolutely. And you can bet your bottom dollar that had UK played as many white players as Coach K has through the years, they’d have a very different set of assumptions on why we were doing so. And those assumptions would have a lot to do with how we’re not located in the right region of the country to deserve the benefit of the doubt, in their opinion. This is my feeling, having tried to understand our mistreatment by ESPN et. al. over the years.

 

[BlueBlood66_rivals34314]

Gonzaga has been pretty “white”. As has UCLA and Michigan.

 

[Duke Bluu]

Ok no I’m sorry I’m going to answer.

I think it has been talked about. Not in the same context as Kentucky because for one, even though Duke has many white players, the majority of the team is often black. BUT the Fab 5 documentary went into this topic extensively. The black players were referred to as uncle toms (players who ACT white) and do the obvious insinuation is that Duke is a white players program and the kids there are white with black skin and Duke black fans must be the same.

I’m black and I’ve experienced it myself and it’s messes up. It’s stupid and dumb.

 

[Duke Bluu]

Whether Coach K personally has an agenda with regard to recruiting white players, I have no idea, I’m no mind reader. But I feel that the predominance of white and/or upper class players there has played a role in the predominantly east coast-based sports media’s presumption that Duke is the program that does things the “right” way.

This is the same sports media that assumes Kentucky is racist for not preferring a mediocre coach, simply because they’re a school in Kentucky.

So has it helped Coach K? Absolutely. And you can bet your bottom dollar that had UK played as many white players as Coach K has through the years, they’d have a very different set of assumptions on why we were doing so. And those assumptions would have a lot to do with how we’re not located in the right region of the country to deserve the benefit of the doubt, in their opinion. This is my feeling, having tried to understand our mistreatment by ESPN et. al. over the years.

Actually I agree with THIS 100%

 

[Duke Bluu]

I do think there is bias especially regionally. I don’t think there is any doubt about that. Duke is a private liberal school with roots from the north east. Yes Kentucky is going to be viewed differently in regard to how many white players are on a team etc. it’s unfortunate but history does play a part in shaping our thoughts and bias (we all have them).

My point is that isn’t K’s fault. It’s not something he’s doing. That’s a external issue in terms of how viewpoints are formed.

 

[Beenfamous02]

I’m of the opinion that if you have three all star/dominant/(insert other adjective) players on a team in college that you need good role players surrounding them who know their roles. Jones is a very good point guard and like Tyus at this time in 2015, NOBODY knows how good the kid can be.

I think Javin, White, O’Connell and Bolden are all capable ROLE players who can rebound, hit open shots from time to time, get put backs and alter shots.

You don’t need to have 1-10 be 1st rounders. Sure it’s awesome to have what Kentucky has. Who wouldn’t want that? But do you need that? No you don’t. That’s been proven quite often

The big 3 looks great on paper. I still have a hard time believing all 3 are better than our best player, especially in college. Will Reddish be a better college player than Reid Travis? Will he be a better college player than Keldon Johnson? A dude that does it on both ends of the court, and plays with 1000x more energy? So after Zion and Barrett, UK has some dudes a half a notch to a notch below, and their reserves barely lose a beat.

The thing is, we’ve watched this team play 5 or 6 times now. We know what we have. This isn’t UK fans talking smack without a clue.

 

[TheBigBlueHerro]

I really like what Javin, white and O’Connell can bring off the bench. Bolden gotta give Brian Zoubek production which I think he can do

:joy::joy:
None of those 3 would even be good enough to be first off the bench at almost any power 5 school and you are depending on them to be a reliable bench?

[pfftt]Did Zoubek avg 0's across the board? Because that is essentially what Bolden gives you, other than in the fouls and turnovers sections. He fills those 2 stats boxes up with the best of them.

 

[UKDC80]

I’m of the opinion that if you have three all star/dominant/(insert other adjective) players on a team in college that you need good role players surrounding them who know their roles. Jones is a very good point guard and like Tyus at this time in 2015, NOBODY knows how good the kid can be.

I think Javin, White, O’Connell and Bolden are all capable ROLE players who can rebound, hit open shots from time to time, get put backs and alter shots.

You don’t need to have 1-10 be 1st rounders. Sure it’s awesome to have what Kentucky has. Who wouldn’t want that? But do you need that? No you don’t. That’s been proven quite often

The problem with Dukes 3 elite guys is that they are all trying to play the same position. They don’t mix well. You can’t tell me otherwise. 2015 they had elite guys at different positions. Their defense will be less than average in the post and awful on the perimeter. Driving guards will get in the lane and do massive damage against duke. Their bench guys are barely average players. Foul trouble against ZW/Barrett and it’s nighty night. They will not shoot the 3 well either. This team is not near as solid from deep as last years team. No way, no how. All that on top of having to play their Big 3 so much, they will be exhausted against a deep team. There goes the legs. Game over.

 

[Duke Bluu]

The big 3 looks great on paper. I still have a hard time believing all 3 are better than our best player, especially in college. Will Reddish be a better college player than Reid Travis? Will he be a better college player than Keldon Johnson? A dude that does it on both ends of the court, and plays with 1000x more energy? So after Zion and Barrett, UK has some dudes a half a notch to a notch below, and their reserves barely lose a beat.

The thing is, we’ve watched this team play 5 or 6 times now. We know what we have. This isn’t UK fans talking smack without a clue.

Listen I get it. On paper Kentucky has the better overall team. Nobody disputes that. At least they shouldn’t.

What I’m saying is that Duke has enough to beat a team like Kentucky and potentially (I think this hinges on Jones) enough to win it all. I don’t think it would be some major head scratcher like “how did Duke win that many games with the way that team was constructed.”

Kentucky is in a better position due to experience and depth. How much of a better position? I don’t think it’s significant

 

[DelkBowl]

I’m of the opinion that if you have three all star/dominant/(insert other adjective) players on a team in college that you need good role players surrounding them who know their roles. Jones is a very good point guard and like Tyus at this time in 2015, NOBODY knows how good the kid can be.

I think Javin, White, O’Connell and Bolden are all capable ROLE players who can rebound, hit open shots from time to time, get put backs and alter shots.

You don’t need to have 1-10 be 1st rounders. Sure it’s awesome to have what Kentucky has. Who wouldn’t want that? But do you need that? No you don’t. That’s been proven quite often

HAHAHAH Bolden is capable of sitting on the bench. HAHAHAHHAA

 

[Beenfamous02]

Listen I get it. On paper Kentucky has the better overall team. Nobody disputes that. At least they shouldn’t.

What I’m saying is that Duke has enough to beat a team like Kentucky and potentially (I think this hinges on Jones) enough to win it all. I don’t think it would be some major head scratcher like “how did Duke win that many games with the way that team was constructed.”

Kentucky is in a better position due to experience and depth. How much of a better position? I don’t think it’s significant

Duke could win it all, but I don’t think it’s likely. I’ll have to see how the big 3 play together, and I’ll have to see how much you all get from everybody else. Duke could also beat UK, but I don’t think it’s likely. But alas, that’s why they play the game. This game will have no baring on the rest of the season. Would be a good resume builder.

 

[turkeywildturkey]

What was the final score?

 

[John Henry]

Whether Coach K personally has an agenda with regard to recruiting white players, I have no idea, I’m no mind reader. But I feel that the predominance of white and/or upper class players there has played a role in the predominantly east coast-based sports media’s presumption that Duke is the program that does things the “right” way.

This is the same sports media that assumes Kentucky is racist for not preferring a mediocre coach, simply because they’re a school in Kentucky.

So has it helped Coach K? Absolutely. And you can bet your bottom dollar that had UK played as many white players as Coach K has through the years, they’d have a very different set of assumptions on why we were doing so. And those assumptions would have a lot to do with how we’re not located in the right region of the country to deserve the benefit of the doubt, in their opinion. This is my feeling, having tried to understand our mistreatment by ESPN et. al. over the years.

Spot on. Even one of our own who is in the media, Rex Chapman, referred to Tyler Herro as "The Great White Hope". Why? Why would he throw that out? All it does is add fuel to the fire and feeds the ESPN narrative UK has to have "A Great White Hope". This stuff is getting old.

 

[ABlockalypseBrow]

I do think there is bias especially regionally. I don’t think there is any doubt about that. Duke is a private liberal school with roots from the north east. Yes Kentucky is going to be viewed differently in regard to how many white players are on a team etc. it’s unfortunate but history does play a part in shaping our thoughts and bias (we all have them).

My point is that isn’t K’s fault. It’s not something he’s doing. That’s a external issue in terms of how viewpoints are formed.

History has little to do with it, or areas like North Carolina and Virginia would be looked down on just as much if not more than areas like West Virginia and Kentucky. Imo, it has more to do with the classism - the poorer states are given less benefit of the doubt - and the fact that Virginia and NC have inherited more “northeast roots” (by voting blue, being closer, what else I’m not sure).

 

[TheBigBlueHerro]

K recruits good basketball players period.

So happened with players 5 - 8 on your bench? opcorn:

 

[BBUK_anon]

Ok no I’m sorry I’m going to answer.

I think it has been talked about. Not in the same context as Kentucky because for one, even though Duke has many white players, the majority of the team is often black. BUT the Fab 5 documentary went into this topic extensively. The black players were referred to as uncle toms (players who ACT white) and do the obvious insinuation is that Duke is a white players program and the kids there are white with black skin and Duke black fans must be the same.

I’m black and I’ve experienced it myself and it’s messes up. It’s stupid and dumb.

I was born a poor black child.

 

[BlueBlood66_rivals34314]

What was the final score?

106-64

 

[seccats04]

Spot on. Even one of our own who is in the media, Rex Chapman, referred to Tyler Herro as "The Great White Hope". Why? Why would he throw that out? All it does is add fuel to the fire and feeds the ESPN narrative UK has to have "A Great White Hope". This stuff is getting old.

Rex is a liberal hack. It's ok to mock white people but anybody says anything negative about a black kid and all kinds of people get fired.

 

[Newcattitudes]

I keep telling Duke friends of mine ( white guys that like the white image and admit it) that O’Connell is the key to Duke this season. You will go as he goes. If he turns out to be a dependable guard who can knock down the three consistently, you could win it. Without that it’s not happening. And I don’t think he’ll see the court enough to be that player.

For reference, I also said Jefferson was the key to Duke making a run in the final four ‘15 and was totally laughed at for it. And look what happened, Jefferson’s big plays and rebounds is what won that title for Duke. (Aside from ncaa push and the officials who are basically Dukes 6th and 7th man.

You lost me at Duke friends of mine ( having fun with ya).

 

[John Henry]

I was born a poor black child.

Good for you. In this modern day we can all be what we say we are at any moment in time. You get to choose your sex and your race. If I am in public and need to use the rest room I can declare myself a woman with Native American blood and stroll in there and just look around. You never know what you will run across inside those walls. Then I can walk out and decide I am Michael Jackson's brother.

I love this country.

 

[BBUK_anon]

Good for you. In this modern day we can all be what we say we are at any moment in time. You get to choose your sex and your race. If I am in public and need to use the rest room I can declare myself a woman with Native American blood and stroll in there and just look around. You never know what you will run across inside those walls. Then I can walk out and decide I am Michael Jackson's brother.

I love this country.

I love this country too but not for any of the reasons you stated.

To ensure you understood my comment, I was quoting Steve Martin in "The Jerk". (I do that a lot of times when someone has to qualify their remarks with what race they are. Them stating how they feel is not enough. It must be qualified. That is soft racism...)

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Rex is a liberal hack. It's ok to mock white people but anybody says anything negative about a black kid and all kinds of people get fired.

I've said it on here before and I'll say it again: racism only goes one way. People can like that or not, I don't really give a damn. It's the truth. If people disagree, they're lying to themselves.

 

[BBUK_anon]

I keep telling Duke friends of mine ( white guys that like the white image and admit it) that O’Connell is the key to Duke this season. You will go as he goes. If he turns out to be a dependable guard who can knock down the three consistently, you could win it. Without that it’s not happening. And I don’t think he’ll see the court enough to be that player.

For reference, I also said Jefferson was the key to Duke making a run in the final four ‘15 and was totally laughed at for it. And look what happened, Jefferson’s big plays and rebounds is what won that title for Duke. (Aside from ncaa push and the officials who are basically Dukes 6th and 7th man.

Just too wise for our time... You da man "Morg"...

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I've said it on here before and I'll say it again: racism only goes one way. People can like that or not, I don't really give a damn. It's the truth. If someone disagrees, they're lying to themselves.

This is mostly true. It was solidified once the Marxists took over the division one campuses in the 1970s and 80s.

 

[awf]

I was born a poor black child.

Is that you Nathan........have you found your purpose?

 

[BBUK_anon]

Is that you Nathan........have you found your purpose?

Naw, but I took a bath.

 

[BBUK_anon]

You lost me at Duke friends of mine ( having fun with ya).

Heck, cuss him. It will make him stronger. Give Ole "Morg" the tough love!

 

[JC43]

Zion is a lot like randle.. but better. He might be the only inside game they need but without him they suck down low

Randle was an absolute beast, we still have to see if Zion can do all the other things other than dunk...

I think Williamson is better than Washington. Don’t know if that means Duke wins but I think Zion will win that matchup

As of now PJ is way ahead and has the body of work to prove it in the NCAAs. PJ is a man posessed, he is a Man on Fire. Zion is a phenom, yet has to shoe he can be phenomenal with opponents that are Men.

Whether Coach K personally has an agenda with regard to recruiting white players, I have no idea, I’m no mind reader. But I feel that the predominance of white and/or upper class players there has played a role in the predominantly east coast-based sports media’s presumption that Duke is the program that does things the “right” way.

This is the same sports media that assumes Kentucky is racist for not preferring a mediocre coach, simply because they’re a school in Kentucky.

So has it helped Coach K? Absolutely. And you can bet your bottom dollar that had UK played as many white players as Coach K has through the years, they’d have a very different set of assumptions on why we were doing so. And those assumptions would have a lot to do with how we’re not located in the right region of the country to deserve the benefit of the doubt, in their opinion. This is my feeling, having tried to understand our mistreatment by ESPN et. al. over the years.

Spot on. Excellent post! All you said and K knows how to make a narrative, played the lil guy, the underdog. Now at the top, he still tries to invoke that sympathy. He a punk but that's why he's up there.
This game is epic, should of happened in 2015...but we'll we all know.
All this talk bout Zion, that kid Reddish is very good, 9 assists last night i think?
Gonna be a battle, great start of the season. We know that there will a future possibe matchup come March, NCAA and CBS will be clamoring for it, just wait and see.
UK wins, team of destiny,riding an unbeaten.....
pUKe has growing pains in ACC but ultimately makes it to a third\last weekend in march...bank on it.

 

[BBUK_anon]

Randle was an absolute beast, we still have to see if Zion can do all the other things other than dunk...


As of now PJ is way ahead and has the body of work to prove it in the NCAAs. PJ is a man posessed, he is a Man on Fire. Zion is a phenom, yet has to shoe he can be phenomenal with opponents that are Men.


Spot on. Excellent post! All you said and K knows how to make a narrative, played the lil guy, the underdog. Now at the top, he still tries to invoke that sympathy. He a punk but that's why he's up there.
This game is epic, should of happened in 2015...but we'll we all know.
All this talk bout Zion, that kid Reddish is very good, 9 assists last night i think?
Gonna be a battle, great start of the season. We know that there will a future possibe matchup come March, NCAA and CBS will be clamoring for it, just wait and see.
UK wins, team of destiny,riding an umbeeaten.....
pUKe has growing pains in ACC but ultimately makes it to a third\last weekend in march...bank on it.

GP

 

[BlueBlood66_rivals34314]

Randle was an absolute beast, we still have to see if Zion can do all the other things other than dunk...

There’s a lot to be concerned about with Zion’s game. Most notably his shooting. But he’s clearly displayed many great skills outside of dunking. Most notably of those I would say are his passing/court awareness and his body control/agility.

 

[TheBigBlueHerro]

Spot on. Even one of our own who is in the media, Rex Chapman, referred to Tyler Herro as "The Great White Hope". Why? Why would he throw that out? All it does is add fuel to the fire and feeds the ESPN narrative UK has to have "A Great White Hope". This stuff is getting old.

Did Rex himself refer to Tyler Herro as the "Great White Hope" or did he say that it is the label others would inappropriately and unfairly put on him, as he had done from his days of playing. I think if you try playing it again and slowing it down really slow, you might understand it a little better.

Comprehension is not the enemy folks!

 

[Ryan Lemonds Hair]

What was the over/under on the number of Zion highlights that Sportscenter tweeted out with the #SCTop10 hashtag?

 

[John Henry]

Did Rex himself refer to Tyler Herro as the "Great White Hope" or did he say that it is the label others would inappropriately and unfairly put on him, as he had done from his days of playing. I think if you try playing it again and slowing it down really slow, you might understand it a little better.

Comprehension is not the enemy folks!

Why would he throw that out? No reason other than to be a jerk. Why put that on Tyler. He just wants to play basketball at Kentucky and be the best he can be. He does not need to be labeled because his game will define him.. Not Rex Chapman.

And for the record I have not heard one UK fan say he was their "Great White Hope". Have you?

 

[Fgpoe03]

UK by 20, we have some talent too. I get it, top three recruits.. blah, blah, blah. I have been waiting for this game for months, I hope we make K cry. They have talent but I think we have more and looks to be a pretty cohesive unit. There will be more than three future NBA players on the floor Nov. 6th.

 

[TheBigBlueHerro]

Why would he throw that out? No reason other than to be a jerk. Why put that on Tyler. He just wants to play basketball at Kentucky and be the best he can be. He does not need to be labeled because his game will define him.. Not Rex Chapman.

And for the record I have not heard one UK fan say he was their "Great White Hope". Have you?

Because it's a fact that some fans feel that way. And yes, I have heard fans allude to it; even on here. Plenty of posters stated that they will identify with him more because he's white and are super excited we finally have a "good white" player. There were endless post about Herro all summer. Far more than other players, and in large part simply because of his race. Look, I am excited as any to have him because he is a good player, but to be more excited because of his skin color is ignorant and exactly the type of reference Rex was pointing out. There is a reason it triggered so many people when he said it.

"Why put that on Tyler. He just wants to play basketball at Kentucky and be the best he can be. He does not need to be labeled because his game will define him.." You realize this is exactly why he said it, correct? Seems like you agree with Rex a lot more than you realize or want to admit.

 

[BBUK_anon]

Because it's a fact that some fans feel that way. And yes, I have heard fans allude to it; even on here. Plenty of posters stated that they will identify with him more because he's white and are super excited we finally have a "good white" player. There were endless post about Herro all summer. Far more than other players, and in large part simply because of his race. Look, I am excited as any to have him because he is a good player, but to be more excited because of his skin color is ignorant and exactly the type of reference Rex was pointing out. There is a reason it triggered so many people when he said it.

"Why put that on Tyler. He just wants to play basketball at Kentucky and be the best he can be. He does not need to be labeled because his game will define him.." You realize this is exactly why he said it, correct? Seems like you agree with Rex a lot more than you realize or want to admit.

P_SS on Rex...