Drop kick

[ref2]

I saw a question about drop kicks. Here is the rule.
Rule 6.2..1
K may punt, drop kick or place kick from in or behind the neutral zone before team possession has changed. It is not necessary to be in a scrimmage kick formation to execute a legal scrimmage kick. K may not punt, drop kick or place kick from beyond the neutral zone.

 

[RD_Watcher]

I saw a question about drop kicks. Here is the rule.
Rule 6.2..1
K may punt, drop kick or place kick from in or behind the neutral zone before team possession has changed. It is not necessary to be in a scrimmage kick formation to execute a legal scrimmage kick. K may not punt, drop kick or place kick from beyond the neutral zone.

Did you see the play i question last night? Did the refs blow the call, because on TV, it definitely showed the punter’s foot never touched the ball. Even if he did, the ball never crossed the LOS or line to gain.

 

[ref2]

Here is my take, and remember it wasn't the best video.
I thought the kicker got a piece of the ball on the way back up, not quite a whiff. I didn't see anyone from Warren gain possession. Warren would of had to gain possession for East to keep it. I saw the ball bouncing around and who did it bounce off of I don't know. East recovered a fumble or a kick that did not reach the line to gain. In my opinion it should have been Warrens ball.

 

[RetiredReferee]

Here is my take, and remember it wasn't the best video.
I thought the kicker got a piece of the ball on the way back up, not quite a whiff. I didn't see anyone from Warren gain possession. Warren would of had to gain possession for East to keep it. I saw the ball bouncing around and who did it bounce off of I don't know. East recovered a fumble or a kick that did not reach the line to gain. In my opinion it should have been Warrens ball.

Pretty much what I was feeling.

 

[tmjgrady]

I was sitting right near midfield just a few rows up as I mentioned in a different thread......this is what I saw - no kick, Dom dropped the ball and was unable to pick it up because the ball took a strange bounce a bit forward - the ball was clearly picked up by Warren, then fumbled, then recovered - it happened so fast but I believe that the refs got the call correct - if you look at the IHSA play-by-play in the box score, that is how the event took place:
Dominic Dzioban punt 0 yards to the LINCOLN30, Jaden Gregerson return 0 yards to the LINCOLN30, fumble by Jaden Gregerson recovered by LINCOLN Sean McLaughlin at LINCOLN30.

 

[olderbytheminute]

Replay on the punter showed he clearly kicked the ball after it hit the ground which is still a legal punt. Obviously he made contact because he was 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage and the mosh pit type scramble for the ball occurred past the line of scrimmage but not past the first down marker. Watching on tv none of us could see who did or did not toufch the ball. However a clue to what happened could come from the LWE player standing in the mosh pit area signaling it was his teams ball. First off the kid signaling would have no idea that the kick was a drop-punt rather than a regular punt that went off side of kickers foot. Two and this a conjecture but the LWE players seem pretty intelligent so I m going to assume this. The punting team can only retain possession when the punt passes the line of scrimmage after it is touched and lost by the return team. Since the kid is immediately signaling its LWE ball he must have seen what nobody watching on tv or who was on the Warren side of the field could see..,, which was that a ref determined a Warren player touched the ball and it was then recovered by LWE.
My other point is in regard to Warren coach Bryan McNulry. This is an intellectually smart coach and I while thus is
My opinion I would say if the ref told him what the call was and the rule interpretation was incorrect that mcnulry would have gone to each and every official individually and explained to one and all that the ruling was wrong and needed to be correct.
I m guessing that nobody currently coaching prep football in the Chicago area is better versed with n the rules than Warrens coach. He got the explanation and was satisfied.
The big concern on this board seemed to be that the drop kick was illegal but someone posted the rule that it was a legit punt. Once that was cleared up the rest of the actions in the field make sense. Unfortunately the tv coverage was a hindrance on that plat rather than a help.

 

[mc140]

Clearly kicked.

 

[Kevin JCHS 81]

Clearly kicked.

Yeah it was clearly kicked, but after watching it about 10 times, what happened in that scrum is anybody's guess from that angle.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

Still can’t tell if it crosses the line of scrimmage. That’s kind of the clincher. If it doesn’t cross the scrimmage line then it doesn’t matter if Warren touches it or not unless they fully possess it and fumble it back. Clearly that didn’t happen

 

[homer2424]

It was definitely kicked. And LWE touched the ball first after it was kicked. If the kicking team touches the ball first, shouldn’t it be warren ball from the spot where it was touched? It’s only a live ball if warren has touched it first after the punt.

 

[ref2]

Clearly kicked.

It was kicked, so that part was legal. Now on this video you can't tell where the line to gain or the line of scrimmage is. But what you can tell is no Warren kid gained possession. .

 

[Kevin JCHS 81]

It was kicked, so that part was legal. Now on this video you can't tell where the line to gain or the line of scrimmage is. But what you can tell is no Warren kid gained possession. .

On a normal punt (not this one) if a player on the receiving team touches the punted ball (not full possession) then it is a live ball, correct?
(That's a question, not a statement.)

 

[WIU@78]

Looking at the TV replay this AM I could not see any touch by Warren. I also saw more in the stands than any high shot of that television broadcast by the producers.

 

[Quags22]

Replay on the punter showed he clearly kicked the ball after it hit the ground which is still a legal punt. Obviously he made contact because he was 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage and the mosh pit type scramble for the ball occurred past the line of scrimmage but not past the first down marker. Watching on tv none of us could see who did or did not toufch the ball. However a clue to what happened could come from the LWE player standing in the mosh pit area signaling it was his teams ball. First off the kid signaling would have no idea that the kick was a drop-punt rather than a regular punt that went off side of kickers foot. Two and this a conjecture but the LWE players seem pretty intelligent so I m going to assume this. The punting team can only retain possession when the punt passes the line of scrimmage after it is touched and lost by the return team. Since the kid is immediately signaling its LWE ball he must have seen what nobody watching on tv or who was on the Warren side of the field could see..,, which was that a ref determined a Warren player touched the ball and it was then recovered by LWE.
My other point is in regard to Warren coach Bryan McNulry. This is an intellectually smart coach and I while thus is
My opinion I would say if the ref told him what the call was and the rule interpretation was incorrect that mcnulry would have gone to each and every official individually and explained to one and all that the ruling was wrong and needed to be correct.
I m guessing that nobody currently coaching prep football in the Chicago area is better versed with n the rules than Warrens coach. He got the explanation and was satisfied.
The big concern on this board seemed to be that the drop kick was illegal but someone posted the rule that it was a legit punt. Once that was cleared up the rest of the actions in the field make sense. Unfortunately the tv coverage was a hindrance on that plat rather than a help.

I watched it on TV and I knew right away the call was wrong. The ball never crossed the line to gain and Warren never had possession.

Was this a CPS crew?

 

[ref2]

On a normal punt (not this one) if a player on the receiving team touches the punted ball (not full possession) then it is a live ball, correct?
(That's a question, not a statement.)

It's a live ball, but who gets possession depends on where the ball is. Is it pass the expanded neutral zone ? Then K gets it. If the kickers recover in or behind the neutral zone K retains it but the down counts. So if it is 4th down it's a turnover on downs
If the receivers muff it K can recover but not advance.

 

[Kevin JCHS 81]

It's a live ball, but who gets possession depends on where the ball is. Is it pass the expanded neutral zone ? Then K gets it. If the kickers recover in or behind the neutral zone K retains it but the down counts. So if it is 4th down it's a turnover on downs

Thanks, that's why my example had to be a normal punt that obviously traveled beyond the line of scrimmage, not this one where it's unclear from all the camera angles.

 

[RD_Watcher]

It's a live ball, but who gets possession depends on where the ball is. Is it pass the expanded neutral zone ? Then K gets it. If the kickers recover in or behind the neutral zone K retains it but the down counts. So if it is 4th down it's a turnover on downs
If the receivers muff it K can recover but not advance.

Thank you, Stripes. This is the ultimate answer to my question, several layers below my initial thought.

 

[mchsalumni]

Still can’t tell if it crosses the line of scrimmage.

Definitely made it past LOS. Everything else is a blur to me.

 

[LakeCtyNewt]

Spoke to the spotter and supervisor of officials from the game. The two calls they had the biggest issues with were the punt and on the fumble return for the touchdown. The punt, based on what the observer told me should have been Warren's ball. On the fumble return, he still couldn't find where the penalty occurred for personal foul, and he said it also was not stepped off properly. And before anyone thinks I am whining about the officiating, LWE played better and deserved to win the game. These two calls were not enforced properly.

 

[WIU@78]

And as a side note the Dominators ankle was the size of a 16” Clincher Sunday. Newt I have to congratulate the Warren faithful for backing their team this year in what I feel is a breakout year for their program. I also appreciate your insight to the HS scene in the North and look forward to many more years of the same.

 

[ref2]

And as a side note the Dominators ankle was the size of a 16” Clincher Sunday. Newt I have to congratulate the Warren faithful for backing their team this year in what I feel is a breakout year for their program. I also appreciate your insight to the HS scene in the North and look forward to many more years of the same.

Is there any damage to the ankle that requires surgery ? Or will time heal it up?

 

[WIU@78]

Will let you know ref2. Close but not that close to Dominic. Thanks for following this page as well as your side of the story is always valued on EDGY.

 

[pigskin1996]

And as a side note the Dominators ankle was the size of a 16” Clincher Sunday. Newt I have to congratulate the Warren faithful for backing their team this year in what I feel is a breakout year for their program. I also appreciate your insight to the HS scene in the North and look forward to many more years of the same.

Out of curiosity, If there was a roughing called on that play does LWE take the penalty and a shot at the end zone from the 13 with one untimed down? Or just take the outcome and a shorter kickoff maybe? He put the ensuing kickoff out of the endzone anyway bad limb and all. So I don't think the shorter kickoff would do much. I don't even know how a penalty would work at that point before halftime. It seems like they probably just take the FG result either way.

I fractured and dislocated my ankle (7 screws and a plate put in) in a playoff game kicking an extra point junior year and was good to kick my senior year. No roughing because of a botched snap on my play.

 

[ref2]

I could be mistaken, but if I remember correctly roughing was called and they took the penalty on the second half kickoff.

Anyone know for sure ?

 

[WIU@78]

That was it ref2. The one legged Dominator kicked off to start the second half after the penalty walk off. The LWE followers were having flashbacks to the Brook game where they tried a pop up kick in the same situation...that was taken to the house by Mr. King of the Brook in record time.

 

[linetogain]

Clearly kicked.

:08 Center long snaps from 30. Ball crosses the LOS (30) and its hard to tell who touches first at the 33.
1- LWE touches 1st we have 1st touching. Warren Ball
2- Warren touches 1st, LWE recovers. LWE ball

 

[William Foster]

The Referee is mic’d to announce penalty administration to the stadium and TV broadcast. This would have been a perfect opportunity to expand the resources to explain the circumstances, i.e. who may have touched the ball first and where. There also should have been an explanation of the personal foul on the LWE fumble and W return that was called back. Compare this to the crew communication and referee explanation of a fumble recovered by the defense (ESL) but OOB during the 6A game. Unfortunately, Referees (white hats) don’t get much, if any, practice announcing information during a season unless the game is televised. But I think Finals crews should be held to a higher standard and be reminded of the importance of communication.