Drop Cal, get Muss
- Thread starter JohnnyGreen1975
- Start date
This year might be the one exception, because we did have a good mix of experienced players.
But the 10 years prior? I see no reason to believe Muss could, or any coach. I dont think its easy breaking in 18-year Olds to the college game, guys who spent the last few years playing AAU and being told they were the best player.
No other coach has had even close to the talent Cal had in his first 5 years. Not even close. He was the only power recruiting those guys. Duke came close once or twice but even those teams had the Super star power but not the depth of talent those Cal teams had. It was just absurd.
Duke had plenty of teams right with UK, especially over the last 5 or 6 years. It was DUKE who was leading recruiting in that time, not us.
Regardless, this isn't like having a Saban team full of Elite players who are also Juniors and seniors. These are most still freshman. It's a trade off.
What's your timetable for Cal? Six to seven more seasons of "meh?"
He looks good with Kentucky in the background.
But that's a little different from "let's hire any coach who happens to win any game at the moment" lol.
He looks good with Kentucky in the background.
Best photoshop all weak(because it made me weak)!!!
@CatPhight seems as though you might have some competition. Do you have a photoshop to answer with?
Not even close dude. Duke had the elite guys but never had Devin Booker and Tyler Ullis off the bench. Their 5th best player was never Eric Bledsoe. They never had a team with 8 NBA players. Cals teams had the elite talent and still got the guys like he’s getting now. The talent was so obscene it’s just hard to fathom. In his first 5 years, except the Knight year, were a level of talent never seen before or again in college basketball. Not even close.
Realistically, 2-3 more years. And if we're still getting two seeds and finishing in the top 10 then there's no reason to move on. If there is an actual regression that's proved out over a longer time frame then you cut him lose.
2 seeds with early, Kansas-like flameouts won't cut it, regardless of what your view is. This is BBN. Even our AD just said deep runs are expected.
Muss is better than what we have now. I see this look all the time during the games. It’s maddening.
No doubt. You can not fire him. That would be absurd. That doesn’t mean we can’t think he’s cooked and hope he moves on, on his own. I think Cal has been to all the final 4’s he’s ever going to coach so I’d rather find a guy who I believe has some in the tank. I also admit he could turn it around but don’t think he will. If he stays, I hope I’m wrong.
None of the guys you mentioned were in the last 5-6 year, though. Since that first run of Cals, the recruiting has come back down and Duke has taken over.. having several classes with 2 or 3 guys in the top5. And they got nothing from it either, not even a Final 4.
Also, those ridiculous recruiting classes that Cal had from 2009 to 2015, netted us a title, a title appearance, 4 final 4s, and no first weekend exits.
The point is, just because you have elite recruiting classes, those guys are STILL freshman. And they almost never stay. This isn't college football and it's not the pros. Recruiting elite talent in college basketball comes with a very significant draw back.
That's kind of where I'm at.
Because you replay this season over and over again, most of the time we have way more success in the tournament with these type of teams.
1 and 2 seeds means you've had a good regular season and you are in the conversation for a national title.
The issue then becomes for Cal tho is this is a results oriented business. You can't drop 1st round games to St. Peters.
Cal has lost his cool swagger. When he first got here, we were all enamored with his style. Of course, we came from BCG so it seemed like a life changing bump. It started strong in the first 6 years and has fizzled since then.
This is an opinion I don't have an issue with. While I think he's still got something in the tank, no one can know for sure. I do have a problem with people making definitive statements about how he'll never win another title like they have a time machine or something.
Yeah but they haven’t had the talent. It’s hard to win a title with 3 guys. Honestly, this years Duke team is probably the deepest they’ve been in awhile. The point is, you can’t say another guy hasnt done as well because no one else ever had anything even close to those type of rosters.
26 wins. 2 seed. That tells me all I need to know about whether or not there's something in the tank.
And my point is: you can't assume that a coach can win with elite freshman, when the main 3 coaches who go this route, are all struggling. Seems to me that just because you get a bunch of reaaaally good freshman, doesn't mean you're walking to a Final 4.
Btw.. Duke's last 6 years of recruiting is right there with Cals first 6 years.. Giles Tatum Ingram zion RJ Cam Carter Bagley Carey Banchero.. all top5 recruits. Not to mention all the other 5-stars they got.
Duke has had teams with more than just "3 guys" ..
Duke won the NC in 2010 and 2015 while also knocking on the door this year. Do we feel like this is ok or has Cal lowered the bar so much that we expect sweet 16s with the last one in 2019.
Gonzaga could say the same. You are measured about winning when it matters. When will we get the #2 seed banner?
Underrated part of what Cal does. Part of the reason Phil Jackson was such a good coach was because he managed egos so well. Early in Cal's tenure we were getting five guys a year who all expected to be big man on campus.
Duke is knocking on the door of a title this year? They're down at the half of the sweet16 game.. a little early, don't you think?
Duke has never had rosters like Cals first five (besides Knight year.) That’s just false. Other schools recruit these guys now. Cal got whichever ones he wanted for 5 years. No one has that option anymore. Not Cal or Duke. Duke is getting talent similar to what Uk has gotten for the last 6 years (except the Zion team) and their results are better than ours.
Gonzaga could say the same. You are measured about winning when it matters. When will we get the #2 seed banner?
The point is if you keep putting yourself in positions like this, you are eventually going to win.
While the result sure as hell wasn't what we wanted or expected, I believe the process was sound and if we kept having seasons like this we'd eventually see another final four and possibly a another title under Cal. The mere fact we had the season we had to me means that Cal has some left in the tank.
I dont know what else to tell you, Duke has out recruited us the last 6 years.. if you want to split hair and say Cal had slightly more talent in his first 6 years.. fine. But as I pointed out, K has had plenty of classes with several top5 recruits.
I mean people don't like to hear about luck but it's true. A one and done tournament, you need some luck. The best team is rarely given odds above 30%.
At the end of the regular season, there's a group of 6-8 teams tho where you can be reasonably confident the title winner is coming from that group. We were in that group this season. If we keep in that group on a consistent basis, good things will happen.
At the end of the regular season, there's a group of 6-8 teams tho where you can be reasonably confident the title winner is coming from that group. We were in that group this season. If we keep in that group on a consistent basis, good things will happen.
It’s not close dude. It’s mind boggling you would even say that. You could certainly argue they’ve out recruited us the last 6 years and I’d probably even agree with you. But not even close to what Cal did his first 5 years. It’s not splitting hairs. It’s winning with 6-7 NBA guys as opposed to 3.
I'm just kind of baffled that were blasting the **** out of Cal for losing with elite recruits, but were somehow giving K a pass, acting like Cal had these far and away better classes..
We can't just say that both have struggled to win with OAD recruiting as of late? Along with Penny? And that maybe elite talent, that's very young, isn't some automatic path to a final 4?
I always thought this place was more or less on the same page when it comes to that..
We can't just say that both have struggled to win with OAD recruiting as of late? Along with Penny? And that maybe elite talent, that's very young, isn't some automatic path to a final 4?
I always thought this place was more or less on the same page when it comes to that..
And, everyone of those teams had elite NBA talent, in addition to 6-7 NBA guys.
Since they started making the #1 overall seed public the #1 overall seed has won the title just 17% of the time (a little less now that that Gonzaga lost)