Dour. Joyless.

Jun 9, 2009
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Let me start with a disclaimer. Frequent readers of this board know that I have long been a CVS fan (and apologist). I, unlike many posters on this board, know that CVS knows 10 times more about the game than anyone posting here.

Nevertheless, even though it hurts to say it, I don’t think I can take what’s been going on (particularly with her demeanor) for another year.

Dour.

Joyless.

A coach slumped in her courtside chair with her arms crossed.

Postgame press conferences with depressing body language and mumbled responses that even when they start with “We aren’t…” really sound more like an affronted “They aren’t…”.

Sub’ outs that seem more like public rebukes than game situation adjustments (or teaching moments).

Desperate line-up churnings, searching for elusive magic, churnings that continue from November to March, year after year after year.

And it is NOT just this young 2016-2017 team (incidentally a team I found, even if they couldn’t shoot for beans, full of young student athletes who came to every game to play to the last hopeless minute).

Dour. Joyless.

It’s been this way for several years, even with teams with lots of final-four-level talent. Even with talent like that, such underperformance, such a sad, sad mood. (If Tyler hadn’t gone coast to coast with 5 second left in El Paso, it would have been years and years of unrelenting sadness.)

Sure … winning fixes everything.

But what if, even with The Rojas, we get more of the same next year?

A new coach after that will be a season too late.

Better to bring new hope and joy-in-the-game back to RUWBB as soon as possible.
 
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Jun 9, 2009
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Okay ... the men are only 3-15 in the B1G so far this year.

But today... watching Pike, the team, the fans at the RAC during the Senior Day win against Illinois: that's the "new hope" I'm looking for.
 

APKnight

All-Conference
Nov 21, 2013
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If Hobbs retains Viv, and she somehow tears the roof off the sucka next year (Parliament reference), I will have to give kudos to Hobbs for showing extreme and undue patience.
 

FELONIOUSMONK

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Apr 1, 2012
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Her mentor John Chaney went out with a crash and burn.. I don't want that to happen to a figure of her historical stature . Having said that sometimes it is just time to go.
 

RutgersDon

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If Hobbs retains Viv, and she somehow tears the roof off the sucka next year (Parliament reference), I will have to give kudos to Hobbs for showing extreme and undue patience.
Next to his awards for moving the maryland football game to Yankee stadium and spending $750k for an out door wrestling match at Yankee Stadium and for hiring a head football coach who went 2-10 and losing to Michigan 78-0
 

RUinsane

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Jul 25, 2001
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Next to his awards for moving the maryland football game to Yankee stadium and spending $750k for an out door wrestling match at Yankee Stadium and for hiring a head football coach who went 2-10 and losing to Michigan 78-0
Schiano lost 80-7 in his first year to a WVU team that finished 3-8, not to a Michigan team that was top 5.Oh he went 2-9 in his first year as well (with wins over Buffalo and a pitiful Navy team. Oh he lost to a UCONN team transitioning from D-1AA) A FWIW, Hobbs didn't sign the contract for the NYC game with UMD. Julie did.He's not spending 750K on just wrestling it is a combo event, that makes good sense. If you're going to go to NYC might as well maximize your time there. Not to mention, if there's one sports team in NYC you want to build a partnership with, it's the Yankees. Short term "loss" long term gain. You know strategic thinking. Something most RU fans can't always seem to grasp. Pat could have tried to reneg on the game, but that would be penny wise and pound foolish. Women's BB is no worse off waiting a year for the Rojas to pan out. It couldn't hurt attendnece anymore than it is right now. Let CVIV get her 1000 win. For every misstep this school has done since the Rice fiasco, it should at least be smart enough not to be the one to lead the charge of pushing her out.
 
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waretown

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Jul 4, 2009
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Schiano lost 80-7 in his first year to a WVU team that finished 3-8, not to a Michigan team that was top 5.Oh he went 2-9 in his first year as well (with wins over Buffalo and a pitiful Navy team. Oh he lost to a UCONN team transitioning from D-1AA) A FWIW, Hobbs didn't sign the contract for the NYC game with UMD. Julie did.He's not spending 750K on just wrestling it is a combo event, that makes good sense. If you're going to go to NYC might as well maximize your time there. Not to mention, if there's one sports team in NYC you want to build a partnership with, it's the Yankees. Short term "loss" long term gain. You know strategic thinking. Something most RU fans can't always seem to grasp. Pat could have tried to reneg on the game, but that would be penny wise and pound foolish. Women's BB is no worse off waiting a year for the Rojas to pan out. It couldn't hurt attendnece anymore than it is right now. Let CVIV get her 1000 win. For every misstep this school has done since the Rice fiasco, it should at least be smart enough not to be the one to lead the charge of pushing her out.
why do you compare Schiano's first year as a Rutgers coach comparing that to whats going on with the womens basketball program, Schiano started an upward trend that brought the worst football team in the country to respectability. stringer is taking the once prominent program to one of the worst power 5 programs in the country. she got her hof tag on her forever just like Casey Stengel of the great Yankee teams. but bothe Stengel and stringer are ending their great careers as a joke. giving her another 2 years to attain her 1000 victory will put this program back another decade , football make $$$ women's basketball does not
 
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RutgersDon

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Schiano lost 80-7 in his first year to a WVU team that finished 3-8, not to a Michigan team that was top 5.Oh he went 2-9 in his first year as well (with wins over Buffalo and a pitiful Navy team. Oh he lost to a UCONN team transitioning from D-1AA) A FWIW, Hobbs didn't sign the contract for the NYC game with UMD. Julie did.He's not spending 750K on just wrestling it is a combo event, that makes good sense. If you're going to go to NYC might as well maximize your time there. Not to mention, if there's one sports team in NYC you want to build a partnership with, it's the Yankees. Short term "loss" long term gain. You know strategic thinking. Something most RU fans can't always seem to grasp. Pat could have tried to reneg on the game, but that would be penny wise and pound foolish. Women's BB is no worse off waiting a year for the Rojas to pan out. It couldn't hurt attendnece anymore than it is right now. Let CVIV get her 1000 win. For every misstep this school has done since the Rice fiasco, it should at least be smart enough not to be the one to lead the charge of pushing her out.
Rutgers does not need a parternship with the Yankees.Rutgers has a great stadium and does need to play league games at an old baseball park in the Bronx,thats an idea developed not for the Rutgers fan.The great combo event would be better served by having 5k at the RAC.Rutger wrestling match Hobbs and Rutgers would be better served by firing CVS NOW rather than waiting till 2019 when she has some chance of winning 1000 games at the same time she is killing the women's bb program.
 
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RUinsane

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why do you compare Schiano's first year as a Rutgers coach comparing that to whats going on with the womens basketball program, Schiano started an upward trend that brought the worst football team in the country to respectability. stringer is taking the once prominent program to one of the worst power 5 programs in the country. she got her hof tag on her forever just like Casey Stengel of the great Yankee teams. but bothe Stengel and stringer are ending their great careers as a joke. giving her another 2 years to attain her 1000 victory will put this program back another decade , football make $$$ women's basketball does not
um, didn't you read the quote. The previous poster is bashing Hobbs for the Ash hire. I was simply pointing out that Schinao had just as miserable a start as Ash. As far as Stringer is concerned, it's an optics issue not a basketball issue. Rutgers will look like crap if it fires her regardless of how bad the team is. She wants her 1000th win. Let her have it and then make the push behind the scenes to move on. To can her less than 20 wins away makes Rutgers look more foolish. The press doesn't really care about a losing women's team, but they will be happy to burn Rutgers to the ground if they push out CVIV. We live in a world of 140 characters or less, not well thought out debate. All you would see with a Stringer firing is a mass uniformed witch hunt against RU. You let her get her signature win and then work with her to get her to retire.
 

RUinsane

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Jul 25, 2001
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Rutgers does not need a parternship with the Yankees.Rutgers has a great stadium and does need to play league games at an old baseball park in the Bronx, thats an idea developed not for the Rutgers fan. The great combo event would be better served by having 5k at the RAC.Rutger wrestling match Hobbs and Rutgers would be better served by firing CVS NOW rather than waiting till 2019 when she has some chance of winning 1000 games at the same time she is killing the women's bb program.
Do you even bother to read, Stick to the topic. You blame Hobbs for the NYY game. You completely ignore that Hobbs got stuck with the contract. None of your points address that. Have you seen our teams? We are not top notch in anything. Wrestling, lacrosse, women's soccer all doing well but not a B1G crown or national crown among them. Overall we're mediocre on our best day right now as an athletic department on a whole. And mediocre programs, don't burn bridges with an organization like the Yankees.
 
Nov 30, 2005
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Not sure what the game at Yankee Stadium has to do with all this but, as an aside, the main objection people have to it is not so much where it is, but that it was included in the season ticket package. We had no choice.

Back to the subject at hand....I agree with RUinsane that firing Stringer so close to 1000 wins will not be well-received. It would be better for all if she steps down voluntarily. Who knows what's she's thinking right now.
 

RutgersDon

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Not sure what the game at Yankee Stadium has to do with all this but, as an aside, the main objection people have to it is not so much where it is, but that it was included in the season ticket package. We had no choice.

Back to the subject at hand....I agree with RUinsane that firing Stringer so close to 1000 wins will not be well-received. It would be better for all if she steps down voluntarily. Who knows what's she's thinking right now.
Destroying the women's bb program by having an over the hill coach who won 6 games and cannot recruit anymore is a worse idea.The yankee stadium shows how bad politically decisions kill Rutgers sports.
 
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RutgersDon

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um, didn't you read the quote. The previous poster is bashing Hobbs for the Ash hire. I was simply pointing out that Schinao had just as miserable a start as Ash. As far as Stringer is concerned, it's an optics issue not a basketball issue. Rutgers will look like crap if it fires her regardless of how bad the team is. She wants her 1000th win. Let her have it and then make the push behind the scenes to move on. To can her less than 20 wins away makes Rutgers look more foolish. The press doesn't really care about a losing women's team, but they will be happy to burn Rutgers to the ground if they push out CVIV. We live in a world of 140 characters or less, not well thought out debate. All you would see with a Stringer firing is a mass uniformed witch hunt against RU. You let her get her signature win and then work with her to get her to retire.
Hobbs was in the B-10 not some program in the early 2000's.Hiring a co-coordinator is not a big time hire.His record of 2-10 proves he was was ready for aac/mwc/cusa hc before taking a p5 job.
 
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RUinsane

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Hobbs was in the B-10 not some program in the early 2000's.Hiring a co-coordinator is not a big time hire.His record of 2-10 proves he was was ready for aac/mwc/cusa hc before taking a p5 job.
The Big East in 2000 was one of the top leagues for FB. You had va Tech and Miami go back to back in the National Championship games. I know it's facts again refuting your unfounded opinions.
 
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RutgersDon

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The Big East in 2000 was one of the top leagues for FB. You had va Tech and Miami go back to back in the National Championship games. I know it's facts again refuting your unfounded opinions.
Look at all the jokes that were hc in Rutgers football.Thats a fact.CVS cannot coach a top bb program any longer in a successful way.(keeping players out of a locker room;not recruiting great high school player and scoring at the bottom of division are facts not opinions)Having a 2-10 season and getting trounced by the second string teams of top teams shows that the co-coordinator was not up to a p5 hc job.Rutgers was lucky with greg.The B10 is a better league top to bottom than the BE.Hiring a hc for P5 is not about being cheap and having years on the job training.
 

Caliknight

Hall of Famer
Sep 21, 2001
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AD Hobbs has been incredible. I think Viv had him in a hard place. HoF who is close to an unbelievable milestone. But it appears further away than ever.

Best for all if she reaches it and moves on, but that is going to take time given the prospects of winning games. Everything she helped build is being destroyed. Tough spot for the department, in a sport and coach providing unacceptable results now.
 
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scarletrat

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Aug 28, 2003
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she is going down akin to Reasso...it's time to move on for both RU and CVS...not to tarnish what she has done here...
 

RutgersDon

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AD Hobbs has been incredible. I think Viv had him in a hard place. HoF who is close to an unbelievable milestone. But it appears further away than ever.

Best for all if she reaches it and moves on, but that is going to take time given the prospects of winning games. Everything she helped build is being destroyed. Tough spot for the department, in a sport and coach providing unacceptable results now.
He tries hard
 

RizwranIII

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Dec 30, 2012
156
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um, didn't you read the quote. The previous poster is bashing Hobbs for the Ash hire. I was simply pointing out that Schinao had just as miserable a start as Ash. As far as Stringer is concerned, it's an optics issue not a basketball issue. Rutgers will look like crap if it fires her regardless of how bad the team is. She wants her 1000th win. Let her have it and then make the push behind the scenes to move on. To can her less than 20 wins away makes Rutgers look more foolish. The press doesn't really care about a losing women's team, but they will be happy to burn Rutgers to the ground if they push out CVIV. We live in a world of 140 characters or less, not well thought out debate. All you would see with a Stringer firing is a mass uniformed witch hunt against RU. You let her get her signature win and then work with her to get her to retire.
Who exactly is going to be part of this mass witch hunt against RU if CVS is let go. I know one thing for sure. The top recruits of the country will not be part of it.
 

RUinsane

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Jul 25, 2001
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Who exactly is going to be part of this mass witch hunt against RU if CVS is let go. I know one thing for sure. The top recruits of the country will not be part of it.
evry paper in NJ, ESPN, SI.com etc. It's an easy get a cliock and reaction story. HOF coach fired after 20+ years at RU. Especially considering she has accomplished more than any other coach in RU's history. Firing Strigner has no positives for RU from a strategic perspective.
 

GL213

Sophomore
Feb 27, 2007
545
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evry paper in NJ, ESPN, SI.com etc. It's an easy get a cliock and reaction story. HOF coach fired after 20+ years at RU. Especially considering she has accomplished more than any other coach in RU's history. Firing Strigner has no positives for RU from a strategic perspective.
evry paper in NJ, ESPN, SI.com etc. It's an easy get a cliock and reaction story. HOF coach fired after 20+ years at RU. Especially considering she has accomplished more than any other coach in RU's history. Firing Strigner has no positives for RU from a strategic perspective.
Strategy in this sense is not going to win more games.
 
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waretown

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evry paper in NJ, ESPN, SI.com etc. It's an easy get a cliock and reaction story. HOF coach fired after 20+ years at RU. Especially considering she has accomplished more than any other coach in RU's history. Firing Strigner has no positives for RU from a strategic perspective.
so your answer is to keep on losing and fall deeper behind in our conference. the media is not our friend, we have weathered that storm before, this time will be no different and we will be better off, in a couple of days this will be old news and no one will care
 
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RizwranIII

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so your answer is to keep on losing and fall deeper behind in our conference. the media is not our friend, we have weathered that storm before, this time will be no different and we will be better off, in a couple of days this will be old news and no one will care
Totally agree. One day of some bad press is not exactly a witch hunt. And IMO, that will have negligible effect on any recruit's decision to play at RU as compared to a 6 win season.
 

MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
31,403
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If CVS comes back it will be wins that get great press.
If a new HC comes in and doesn't win the bad press will be worse and recruits will take notice.
But Vivian's name hasn't brought in the recruits like it used to .
Her name overcame the poor facilities recruits saw and made some of them think RU wasn't where they should go.
With new facilities in the works, a new HC might have more to work with but without winning right away only a name brand will get the press on RU's side untill the team proves that it can be an NCAA team.
Most forget, in their get rid of Stringer rants, while RU WBB hasn't reached the level we expect it to be year in and year out, but CVS ( except for this season) had teams that won more than they lost, had facilities that didn't impress and the respect of those who know how hard it is to have a top program with bottom feeder support.

A new HC will do just fine with the AD backing the program completly, but could fail miserably without that support and a name that could overcome what the recruits see when they visit RU

What ever happens I'll accept, except a joyless outlook.
 
Jul 26, 2001
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Totally agree. One day of some bad press is not exactly a witch hunt. And IMO, that will have negligible effect on any recruit's decision to play at RU as compared to a 6 win season.
First, I don't think the press is the issue - I never noticed that they were fond of CVS to begin with. The folks who "may" object if CVS is dismissed would be her peers (including prospective replacements). Its tricky. If so many fans are correct and Vivian can't possibly do a decent job with the program, then no one will have a better idea that that is true than other professionals in her field, and there will be no big deal. But if (and I don't know the truth of it) these other coaches buy what commentators have been saying (this is just a bad year) and think the CViv can do better, etc. then some may object and not want to work for Rutgers and / or want to make life extra hard for CVS's successor. And this idea isn't mine, it was originally raised by one of CVS's peers.

As to the recruit comments - please give me a list of how many recruits came to Rutgers to play for the Scarlet Knights and how many came to play for C. Vivian Stringer. Will be the same with the new coach whenever - almost no one is lining up for the honor of playing for the NJ State University with its currently relatively mediocre facilities and is lack of sports "cachet" - even if it made the WBB final four 10 and 17 years ago. They will come to play for the coach, whether because of that coach's history, vision, or salesmanship.
 
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DJ Spanky

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
48,148
59,038
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A FWIW, Hobbs didn't sign the contract for the NYC game with UMD. Julie did.
You are so wrong on this it's not even funny. Julie had a conceptual agreement with the Yankees, not even a verbal contract. The Yankees pulled Hobbs and Ash up to the Whorehouse, er, Stadium, wined and dined them, had them throw out the first pitch, and WALLAH! So this is ALL on Hobbs.
 
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Caliknight

Hall of Famer
Sep 21, 2001
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If CVS comes back it will be wins that get great press.
If a new HC comes in and doesn't win the bad press will be worse and recruits will take notice.
But Vivian's name hasn't brought in the recruits like it used to .
Her name overcame the poor facilities recruits saw and made some of them think RU wasn't where they should go.
With new facilities in the works, a new HC might have more to work with but without winning right away only a name brand will get the press on RU's side untill the team proves that it can be an NCAA team.
Most forget, in their get rid of Stringer rants, while RU WBB hasn't reached the level we expect it to be year in and year out, but CVS ( except for this season) had teams that won more than they lost, had facilities that didn't impress and the respect of those who know how hard it is to have a top program with bottom feeder support.

A new HC will do just fine with the AD backing the program completly, but could fail miserably without that support and a name that could overcome what the recruits see when they visit RU

What ever happens I'll accept, except a joyless outlook.

While CVS took it to a new level, she didn't exactly step into a program that had never had success before her. That should be noted.
 
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MADHAT1

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While CVS took it to a new level, she didn't exactly step into a program that had never had success before her. That should be noted.
That should be noted, but Theresa left for Illinois because she felt Grunninger wasn't supporting her and the RU WBB program like he and the school should.
As the years went by, the support was still missing meaning CVS had to overcome that..
Maybe if Grentz stayed the results might have been the same, but it always has been the HC who made RU a winner because of her coaching and the name of Stringer bringing in recruits ( until recently it seems) .
Teresa might have made the same difference, but she left for another school instead.
 

waretown

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That should be noted, but Theresa left for Illinois because she felt Grunninger wasn't supporting her and the RU WBB program like he and the school should.
As the years went by, the support was still missing meaning CVS had to overcome that..
Maybe if Grentz stayed the results might have been the same, but it always has been the HC who made RU a winner because of her coaching and the name of Stringer bringing in recruits ( until recently it seems) .
Teresa might have made the same difference, but she left for another school instead.
Grentz put fans in the seats, Grunninger would not pay her the going rate,
 

MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
31,403
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Grentz put fans in the seats, Grunninger would not pay her the going rate,
Also didn't back the WBB program like it should have been and Theresa was afraid the program would go downhill moving to the Big East without getting the support she felt needed to succeed.
 

RizwranIII

Redshirt
Dec 30, 2012
156
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Grentz put fans in the seats, Grunninger would not pay her the going rate,
I missed Grentz 1st season, but have been an avid RU WBB fan there after. CVS in her prime years (IMO) was a much better coach than Grentz. Grentz was not even in the same league as CVS in way of recruiting. The AIWA championship was not a major deal since almost all of the top teams except Texas left that year (the final year of the AIWA) for the NCAA and its post season tourney. Grentz's only real success was w Wicks (Sue) and Sticks (Regina Howard). Sue Wicks was a site to see. Just wish the WNBA started a few years earlier so that she could have truly showed her talent in the pros. She played in the WNBA, but in the twilight years of her career. Still maybe the best RU player ever or maybe 2nd to Cappie.
 

waretown

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Also didn't back the WBB program like it should have been and Theresa was afraid the program would go downhill moving to the Big East without getting the support she felt needed to succeed.
FAKE NEWS! where do you get your information from, i think you must make this up to suit for agenda. grentz did not leave under those terms
 

bac2therac

Hall of Famer
Jul 30, 2001
247,232
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FAKE NEWS! where do you get your information from, i think you must make this up to suit for agenda. grentz did not leave under those terms


yes that is revisionist history....Grentz left because the program was starting to slip, she wasnt getting along with Grunninger true but maybe he was thinking of canning her. The recruiting was gettiing weak and RU was losing to programs they never used to like Temple, St Bonnies and Seton Hall. Plus the game was exploding with athletic players that were quicker. The slower plodding game that RU played albeit with greater shooters was not the model going forward.
 

waretown

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What was the average attendance in the barn?
grentzs teams played at the rac when the rac opened, her teams with coyle, wicks and howard never played to sparse crowds like this years team. they played in the leauge that rutgers was in and played a very good ooc games, beating #1 tenn with deroose scoring 40 pts. they played the best team available at that time. wbb has gotten more parity and cvs had a lot of great years but disparaging grentz is absurd. without her there would be no cvs at rutgers, we would be an also ran program.
 

MADHAT1

Heisman
Apr 1, 2003
31,403
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FAKE NEWS! where do you get your information from, i think you must make this up to suit for agenda. grentz did not leave under those terms
Here's a rumor ( link below) that gives a reason why Teresa might have decided to leave.
From my understanding she felt slighted by Grunninger and not getting the type of support she expected to run a successful program.
Fake news it's not and revisionist history is not the case.
Take this ( message board chatter) with a grain of salt, but understand that there were reasons why Gentz left and they were unknown to the general public.

Grentz leaves Rutgers for Illini >
http://sporttoday.org/14_7d77b1cf045bc88b_1.htm#p3

then read this:
Grentz Takes Dip At Illinois - tribunedigital-thecourant
>But she left Rutgers frustrated and unhappy. The administration didn't want to try new ideas or marketing strategies. As Olympic coach, Grentz had limited time to spend with her program and in the ever-increasing competitive atmosphere of women's college basketball, her team suffered. In 1994-95, her last season at the school, Rutgers (17-13) didn't win more than 20 games or qualify for the NCAA Tournament for the first time in 10 years.

When Illinois called, she was ready for a change.

``I don't mean any disrespect to Rutgers,'' she said. ``I was in that situation for a long time, getting it done year in and year out. They didn't give me what I needed.

``I'm looking around and seeing what's going on at other places, like Connecticut. They play Tennessee. They build this rivalry. I'm saying, `Hello. That's marketing. That's promotion.' ''<

http://articles.courant.com/1997-01-12/sports/9701120240_1_rutgers-polar-bear-club-illinois
 
Jul 26, 2001
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grentzs teams played at the rac when the rac opened, her teams with coyle, wicks and howard never played to sparse crowds like this years team. they played in the leauge that rutgers was in and played a very good ooc games, beating #1 tenn with deroose scoring 40 pts. they played the best team available at that time. wbb has gotten more parity and cvs had a lot of great years but disparaging grentz is absurd. without her there would be no cvs at rutgers, we would be an also ran program.
Attendance in the Wicks years was a bit over 3,000 a game and continued in the mid 2000's the season after Wicks left. Thereafter, it wasn't anything special.

There is nothing to disparage about TG - she is in the WBB Hall of Fame. You are 100% correct, CVS would not have come to Rutgers but for TG and the success she had. CVS said so. TG's recruiting was tailored to the type of game and level of the A10, and I truly believe the coaching change was due at Rutgers. Teresa was unhappy, Fred was unhappy and the future wasn't bright.
 
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