Doubling the Post

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Above is the baseline double I was talking about. Every player in america knows how to do this by middle school. Personally i prefer to double backside with a guard who after he forces the ball out sprints out to the opposite corner after the defense rotates as seen below.

 

[whofrewdatmataRU13]

Double that man from Atlanta, Georgia

 

[RAC’emUp]

I like Pike but his stubbornness on this is worrisome. Stubbornness is not a good trait at all for a coach.

 

[Arizona Knight]

Maybe he was like me and assuming the “next” shot was going to be missed and he would return back to earth. Unfortunately that didn’t happen. I’ve never seen anything like it.

That said, at some point you gotta double team him so I’m not disagreeing with the OP.

 

[RAC’emUp]

Maybe he was like me and assuming the “next” shot was going to be missed and he would return back to earth. Unfortunately that didn’t happen. I’ve never seen anything like it.

That said, at some point you gotta double team him so I’m not disagreeing with the OP.

The primary reason he was making them is because they were so easy. 2 footers usually go in. Nothing unusual about it at all. That’s why we needed to double him.

 

[Arizona Knight]

The primary reason he was making them is because they were so easy. 2 footers usually go in. Nothing unusual about it at all. That’s why we needed to double him.

I somewhat agree. Yes most were easy but I rewatched the second half and OT last night and there were several tough shots that he had no trouble with too. He was in the zone.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I somewhat agree. Yes most were easy but I rewatched the second half and OT last night and there were several tough shots that he had no trouble with too. He was in the zone.

They were for the most part just 2 foot little baby hooks, or what essentially was equating to easy layups off the backboard

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Anyone watching indiana Ohio State? Indiana down 11-2 early, just began doubling caleb wesson in the post, forced 3 straight turnovers, 7-0 run 11-9 now. Its so simple man

 

[ChasRC69]

Anyone watching indiana Ohio State? Indiana down 11-2 early, just began doubling caleb wesson in the post, forced 3 straight turnovers, 7-0 run 11-9 now. Its so simple man

I agree about double teaming, at least on occasion. What's more worrisome to me is that our bigs can play or watch the entire game and not figure out that they have to front the guy to try to deny the pass to him. They continually get caught behind him and he eats them alive. Eugene was the only one who tried.

 

[zebnatto]

It’s remarkable to me that someone could have watched the game and not felt we should have doubled. As pointed out above, there are many ways this can be done.

 

[satnom]

Kudos to the Georgi kid who was in a zone and we did nothing to stop him. That being said, I can see him never scoring 30 plus again in his BIG career. Most of his shots were absolute chippies from two feet or less. Our defenders played like they forgot how to defend and didn’t realize he was a lefty. Part of the reason lMHO is because Carter/ Johnson/ Doorson/Omoruyi didn’t want to foul especially with the inconsistent foul calling. That call on Kiss after he was obliterated on a pick was a WTF moment. Anyways Pike needed to adjust to the All American like effort by Georgi with a double down because he was the difference in RU winning and losing the game just like you could say that RU turnovers and missed FTs were as well.

Great effort by the team but RU could not pull out the win on the road in the end. Onto Northwestern.

GO RU

 

[Mr. Magoo1]

I like Pike but his stubbornness on this is worrisome. Stubbornness is not a good trait at all for a coach.

Have to agree with you here. This game, along with the NW game could have been won with some minor adjustments.

 

[FrankZ_RU93]

Frazier would have drained the kick-out 3s with ease anyway. Because Rutgers.

 

[TDIrish27]

I'll roll with the coach on this one. He knows more basketball than I do .

 

[rufeelinit]

Once he got the ball we should have doubled but just as important was the lack of any effort to prevent him from getting the ball in the first place. Way too easy.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

I see the Coach’s point leaving shooters open for 3’s. However, even if against your philosophy double the post some to at least to throw a different look to change things up.

 

[Scangg]

I'll roll with the coach on this one. He knows more basketball than I do .

Obviously he does but coaches make suboptimal decisions all the time in every sport. No coach is right all the time

 

[Plum Street]

Pike gets a pass for strategy and coaching last night . Who knows where his head was and rightfully so.

 

[80RU]

Once he got the ball we should have doubled but just as important was the lack of any effort to prevent him from getting the ball in the first place. Way too easy.

Did you think they should have fronted him? Some teams will front and then look for weak side help if the entry pass is a lob.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Maybe we should triple the post!

I am with Pike here.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Maybe we should triple the post!

I am with Pike here.

Theres hundreds of d1 coaches not with pike here

 

[Pancho1939_rivals]

Pikiell isnt coaching for this year. this year is done. RU will lose in the 1st or 2nd round of Big 10 tournament regardless of what happened yesterday. Pikiell is coaching for next year. right now he has a bunch of freshman and sophmores who need to understand what it takes to win. i for one commend pikiell on not doubling. why double? to bail out terrible defense? RU just got taken to the woodshed by a Freshman. A Freshman. i am not bailing that out. Bail them out so Frazier or jordan can knock down wide open 3s in a game when we traded buckets all day? this is the big 10. MAN UP. No one is going to bail you out. these guys need to learn that.

Not only that but giorgi had had a career high but so did mcconnell. they offset each other.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Theres hundreds of d1 coaches not with pike here

I’ll bet those 300 teams don’t struggle defending the perimeter like we do or are playing so many young players.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I’ll bet those 300 teams don’t struggle defending the perimeter like we do or are playing so many young players.

illinois doubled us in the post. They're the only team in the conference who's 3 leading scorers are underclassmen. You do realize that like, its very common to double the post right? We're not talking about something crazy here like running a 1-3-1 zone as if that's just common sense

 

[Pancho1939_rivals]

doubling is common but that doesnt mean that RU has to do it. allot of things are common but coaches chose not to do it. for multiple reasons coaches do different things for different reasons. some coaches only play zone, some only play man, some press all game, some never press...it all comes down to the coach's style and philosophy. i dont think you need to abandon your principles it happens once in a meaningless game. big picture yesterday was meaningless.

 

[RAC’emUp]

Pikiell isnt coaching for this year. this year is done. RU will lose in the 1st or 2nd round of Big 10 tournament regardless of what happened yesterday. Pikiell is coaching for next year. right now he has a bunch of freshman and sophmores who need to understand what it takes to win. i for one commend pikiell on not doubling. why double? to bail out terrible defense? RU just got taken to the woodshed by a Freshman. A Freshman. i am not bailing that out. Bail them out so Frazier or jordan can knock down wide open 3s in a game when we traded buckets all day? this is the big 10. MAN UP. No one is going to bail you out. these guys need to learn that.

Not only that but giorgi had had a career high but so did mcconnell. they offset each other.

So just so I understand, you’re saying Pike didn’t care if we lost? In his mind, making a point on interior defense was more important to the long term interests of the program than winning and having a better Big 10 record? I try very hard to not criticize other posters but that is freaking nuts.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Doubling is not always the right idea

I really thought we needed to do a much better job of denying him the low block position

We have three centers and Eugene to defend and I thought we needed to do more to get him off the block ...

Foul shots sometimes also takes a fast team
Out of rhythm

 

[Night Man]

So just so I understand, you’re saying Pike didn’t care if we lost? In his mind, making a point on interior defense was more important to the long term interests of the program than winning and having a better Big 10 record? I try very hard to not criticize other posters but that is freaking nuts.

It's not that crazy. He's not coaching for his job. He has consistently refused to double the post and he's sticking to it. Obviously if a guy is scoring at will, to do nothing about it is to value process over immediate results.

would we have given up open threes? Probably. But not every time.
How would they have shot on open threes? Probably 50%.
Is 50% on threes most of the time the kid touches the ball worse than 100% on twos every time the kid touches the ball? Of course not

 

[kcg88]

Gonna need to double Pardon on NW. Not every possession. But enough that he needs to be aware that it may come.

 

[bac2therac]

its very easy to say Giorgi should have doubled but it would have only taken one miss and RU could have won the game or one stop and they would have won. I dont think this loss was about any one "thing"...I think its just that Illinois did one thing better than RU in crunch time..one more fg, one more rebound, one more defensive stop, one more free throw

 

[RAC’emUp]

It's not that crazy. He's not coaching for his job. He has consistently refused to double the post and he's sticking to it. Obviously if a guy is scoring at will, to do nothing about it is to value process over immediate results.

would we have given up open threes? Probably. But not every time.
How would they have shot on open threes? Probably 50%.
Is 50% on threes most of the time the kid touches the ball worse than 100% on twos every time the kid touches the ball? Of course not

No, he’s not willing to lose games to have a teachable moment. And nothing he’s said post-game has suggested that. He just doesn’t believe in doubling down because he thinks that’s a losing proposition. On that, he is in the extreme minority among high level coaches.

 

[Yeah Baby]

Pike knows nothing. Replace Pike with Kyk.

The guy did nothing all year and played out of his mind. Illinois plays at a frantic pace and we had to use a lot of energy on Offense. It takes energy to double the post and the.chase the ball and then find a player to box out.

We probably should have a couple of times but when we did they drew a foul or hit a 3 so not sure what the right call would have been yesterday.

 

[dpwhite]

No, he’s not willing to lose games to have a teachable moment. And nothing he’s said post-game has suggested that. He just doesn’t believe in doubling down because he thinks that’s a losing proposition. On that, he is in the extreme minority among high level coaches.

Exactly, Eddie used to double the big man on every possession and those teams gave up so many wide open threes it was like a shootaround.

 

[satnom]

I’m with Pike and believe in his philosophies but something different needed to be done because the guy was scoring at will like he was Shaquille O’Neal at LSU. Kid is good but he was scoring like no one was there to stop him. Once the whole changing defenders on him didn’t work something else needed to be tried. Hell it could have been a box and one for all I care but the kid needed to be taken off his spot. He was absolutely feeling it. It was like the guy in warmups constantly making a shot from a particular spot and you as the rebounder keep passing the ball back to him at the same spot and he keeps making it. Giorgi was never taken off his spot or made to feel uncomfortable. All was needed was one possession for him to miss. Damn the guy even made his foul shots. Dude was unconscious. Lol.

GO RU

 

[zappaa]

Pikiell isnt coaching for this year. this year is done. RU will lose in the 1st or 2nd round of Big 10 tournament regardless of what happened yesterday. Pikiell is coaching for next year. right now he has a bunch of freshman and sophmores who need to understand what it takes to win. i for one commend pikiell on not doubling. why double? to bail out terrible defense? RU just got taken to the woodshed by a Freshman. A Freshman. i am not bailing that out. Bail them out so Frazier or jordan can knock down wide open 3s in a game when we traded buckets all day? this is the big 10. MAN UP. No one is going to bail you out. these guys need to learn that.

Not only that but giorgi had had a career high but so did mcconnell. they offset each other.

Coach Pike and his staff have got one thing and only one thing on their mind.
That’s doing whatever it is in the moment to WIN the game he’s currently coaching.

Next year and future does not enter his mind after the jump ball to begin the game takes place.

His one and only goal is to win that game, that day!
To think he has any other mindset is absurd, and has zero to do with the defense he employs during a game.

 

[RUJMM78]

This was a game with little defense shown by either team.Yes,there should be adjustments made during games just to see if the problem areas can be somewhat neutralized.

In this game even with the lack of defense Rutgers could have still won the game by making foul shots,layups around the basket and having a go to scorer in the final minutes of OT.Rutgers missed their last 5 shots in overtime of which 2 were three pointers.Bottom line Rutgers has a very small margin for error as seen by their best league offensive game and still loss the game.A meaningful game for league rankings turned out to be just another road loss.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Coach Pike and his staff have got one thing and only one thing on their mind.
That’s doing whatever it is in the moment to WIN the game he’s currently coaching.

Next year and future does not enter his mind after the jump ball to begin the game takes place.

His one and only goal is to win that game, that day!
To think he has any other mindset is absurd, and has zero to do with the defense he employs during a game.

Can't agree with this.

 

[Pancho1939_rivals]

So just so I understand, you’re saying Pike didn’t care if we lost? In his mind, making a point on interior defense was more important to the long term interests of the program than winning and having a better Big 10 record? I try very hard to not criticize other posters but that is freaking nuts.

Of course pikiell doesnt want to lose. i am saying that pikiell wants to establish a certain identity around this program. he has core philosophies. apparently giving up 2s to avoid giving up 3s is one of them. to abandon your core philosophies in a meaningless game is something i would not do.

Everyone has a job to do as part of the game plan. they need to execute. Coaches do not change at a whim just to win games. if you need an example look at virgina umbc last year in the biggest upset every. virginia played right into UMBCs hands and lost. so please stop with this other coaches nonsense.

Maybe he could have taken out EO because EO was getting killed by a freshman. Maybe he should have put another defender in the game who was willing to make the plays necessary to help the team win.

If Shaq were to hit a wide open 3 would we be encouraging him to shoot more 3s? of course not.

 

[BillyC80]

Coach Pike and his staff have got one thing and only one thing on their mind.
That’s doing whatever it is in the moment to WIN the game he’s currently coaching.

Next year and future does not enter his mind after the jump ball to begin the game takes place.

His one and only goal is to win that game, that day!
To think he has any other mindset is absurd, and has zero to do with the defense he employs during a game.

Agree that Pike wants to win every game. That’s what makes it seem baffling that we let a guy beat us the same way over and over again without making an adjustment.

When Reggie pulls an inside fastball over the fence his first three times at bat, do you try to pitch him low and inside again on his fourth at bat, or do you go high and outside or even walk him?

 

[Degaz-RU]

Pike tried Doorson, he tried Johnson, he tried Carter, and he tried Omoruyi. NONE of them could stop Giorgi.

Philosophy is one thing, but when nothing you're doing is working on defense, you HAVE to try something else. Nobody is saying he needed to "double the post" on EVERY possession. I think people are just saying Pike should have tried to double the post to see if it would have worked, not every time, but once or twice.

After Giorgi hit 4 baby hook shots in a row in the second half like he was dunking the ball, and after ALL of our bigs were getting eaten alive, WHY NOT try and have the weak side guard/wing double from behind (with everyone else rotating accordingly)? At that point, instead of Giorgi 90% hitting yet another baby hook, I'd rather take my chances with: (1) Giorgi recognizing the double team from behind; (2) Giorgi not coughing the ball up; (3) Giorgi having the wherewithal to pass out of the double team; and (4) Illinois finding the open man as we rotate back. Alot has to go right for Illinois to have taken advantage of our doubling.

Why not try it even ONCE?