Does anyone remember when IU actually mattered?

[TopCatCal]

That's like asking does anyone remember when dinosaurs mattered or when 8 track tapes mattered. But seriously, did you know. In 1992 the last time that IU mattered. That you could by a gallon of gasoline for $1.18, and a postage stamp for .29 cents. IU has been off the basketball radar screen for so long now that the only time that I ever think about them is when someone on Rupp Rafters starts a thread about them. And their nearly 3 decades of being in the dumps could not have happened to a more deserving fan base.

 

[ggary]

While the Hoosiers get no sympathy from me, if they really want to pull themselves out of their decades-long, purgatory hole that spans halfway to China, their administration needs to look themselves in the mirror and decide what their program really is in eyes of everyone that doesn’t reside in Bloomington, IN.

Their #1 issue is they don’t recruit like a program their size should. They should have a massive recruiting budget and plenty of money to throw at good assistants to do the leg work, yet they’ve had little results to show for it. Archie Miller can’t seem to get anyone to play for them this year. That’s a BIG issue.

But why? Well, for one, they don’t seem to realize that the year 1952 has come and gone. Their branding, style, look, whatever you want to call it has zero swag. They perpetually play in retro styled jerseys that should be reserved for one game a year. This works in football but not in basketball. There isn’t a single top basketball program that maintains a retro look. I’m sure the older fans will dismiss this as trivial, but I’m telling you it is not. The culture of basketball worships the modern aesthetics and it’s as important as ever to stay on top of it. No names on the jerseys, candy striped warmups, old cursive lettering - kids see this stuff. When you’re recruiting kids who are now born in the 2000s and have little to no knowledge of IU’s history, their style just isn’t going to wow them.

But to me, their biggest issue is an administration that hasn’t made it a priority to make a big splash coaching hire and propped the program up year after year as ‘good enough’. It’s crazy really, look at what Memphis did when they hired Penny H., look at what Michigan did in their coaching hire, look at how Duke embraced OAD, look at how UK embraced OAD with the arrival of Cal.. at some point you have to get a coach that you know can recruit and embrace the pursuit of the top players in the country. A lot of the vocal IU fans will say they don’t want to sell their program out to ‘OAD mercenaries’.. well ok, but I would think it’s not wise to shut yourself out from the top talent in the nation. Now to be clear, I think those same fans are lying to themselves and would gladly take any 5 star that wants to sign - let’s be real, they were kissing Romeo Langford’s a$$ to get him to commit (I know Hoosiers, he’s an Indiana boy and OAD doesn’t count when he lives in the state) - but the venom spewed by their fanbase when OAD is brought up certainly can’t help. They say they want 4-year players but as we’ve discussed on here, having lesser talented upper classmen does not make it more likely that you advance any further in the tournament when you take into consideration only a couple of programs truly have a OAD model.

Simply put, their administration again needs to stop fooling themselves that the IU brand still has the pulling power of years past and 1.) stop making lukewarm coaching hires and get someone that can relate to top recruits and 2.) embrace the glitz and glamour (notice I didn’t say cheating) of recruiting that the other top programs have done. It seems some Hoosiers want to keep their ‘prestige’ (whatever that may be) of how college basketball was played in the past but still expect to win big - no gimmicks, no OADs, etc. My question is, if you’re not going to do everything you can within the rules to win, why even have a program at all?

With all that being said, keep it up Hoosiers, you’ve never really mattered in my lifetime and I’m just fine with it staying that way!!

That is a fantastic post.

 

[SemperFiCat]

Having spent most of my 40 years in Indiana, I can tell you, it's a great time to be a Cats fan behind enemy lines. And I've also been seeing more and more UK fans here over the years.

 

[drew_ukfan_rivals]

Dont remember Eric Gordon?

I do but IU still lost in the first round of the big tournament that year

 

[ganner918_rivals60369]

I’m 28 so no

32 here. 1995 is the first year I remember individual games. So... nope, not me either.

 

[rick64]

IU who?!?!

 

[jedwar]

Rumor is going around that IU is approaching UK about restarting the rivalry.

Apparently, Indiana is willing to go back to the Louisville - Indianapolis rotation.

They need us and a rivalry game to help them. We do not and don't need them. I say good riddance. I thought I'd miss the rivalry, but I don't. Cal even offered to play them annually in Indy right? They declined saying it was too far for their students to go.

 

[RogerIndy]

I graduated from UK in 1978. I was there in 1975 when we beat IU 92-90 in the mid-east regionals in Dayton Arena. IU had been undefeated up until that game. I was in my fraternity house with my fraternity brothers watching it, and it was fantastic! Too bad we couldn't beat UCLA for the championship. The great thing about that game was that when we played them early in the regular season, they embarrassed us and beat us by more than 20. But freshmen Robey and Phillips learned from that and got better as the season progressed.

 

[SemperFiCat]

They need us and a rivalry game to help them. We do not and don't need them. I say good riddance. I thought I'd miss the rivalry, but I don't. Cal even offered to play them annually in Indy right? They declined saying it was too far for their students to go.

This. IU made their bed, so screw'em. We'll play them again once they've earned it.

 

[Runt#1969]

I have a permanent mental block when it comes to IU and success in basketball. I'm sticking with it never having actually happened in the first place. Either it was a long nightmare from my earliest memories of college basketball, or a disturbing hallucination brought on by inhaling the fumes Hoosier fans seem to have been imbibing for years.

Maybe the new walk on stud Cooper ByBee will bring on a new era of resurgence for IU...... they are so excited over there!

or maybe not.

I'm thinking we are all finally rid of the Hoosier hysteria.

Long may it rest in pieces.

Go Big Blue!

 

[BigBlueEric]

I remember driving to Indianapolis to watch UK vs IU. That was like twenty three years ago. I remember IU as a big part of most weekends when watching games on national t.v. wow they suck now. Delusional idiots. Reading posts on IUs board, i was shocked how a bunch of losers could be so demanding. They want a SN driven team. No ONDs. Thats not the IU way. A strong bball IQ kid. Who puts IU above themselves. All the kids stay and make great memories for this delusional fan base..just idiots. Keep names off jerseys because its about IU. God forbid any of these youngmen have a idenity outside IU. No wonder top talent stays away from that hell hole..At least other programs have changed with the times and know their place in college ball. IU is still lost in BK throwing chairs and beating up the help. Lol. I will watch this dumpster fire and enjoy..losers.

Yes I remember, BUT, I’m an old man.

 

[Diggers_Matching_Highlighter_rivals62132]

I use to love the IU/UK rivalry. Those games in the Hoosier/RCA Dome were awesome. I especially loved the 4 years run of the Big 4 Classic with IU, UK, UL and ND. For those too young to remember, here were the crowds in Indy in the late 80's and 90's:

1987 - 43,600 (Big 4 Classic)
1989 - 40,100 (Big 4 Classic)
1991 - 34,700
1993 - 38,200
1995 - 41,000
1997 - 38,500
1999 - 37,000

Here are the introductions for the game in 1987 to give you a taste of how big the crowd was:

Thanks for the link! Great Memories. I went to about 5 of the Hoosier\RCA Dome games in the 90's 2000's always a blast. The Unforgettable beating Calbert Chaney in 91\92 sticks out.

Two takeaways:

Was this was when Alford was suspended for selling calendars?
I sure do miss UK's old uniforms.

 

[bthaunert]

Thanks for the link! Great Memories. I went to about 5 of the Hoosier\RCA Dome games in the 90's 2000's always a blast. The Unforgettable beating Calbert Chaney in 91\92 sticks out.

Two takeaways:

Was this was when Alford was suspended for selling calendars?
I sure do miss UK's old uniforms.

Alford graduated the year earlier. This game was from the 1987-88 season.

 

[bfawns_]

I'm 79 and have been an avid fan of KY since 1957 so I remember a lot of great games with Indiana. As you might expect I hated them and still think Bobby Knight was the biggest *** of all time, but he was a great coach for a long time. He lost it when Joe Hall started to get the best of him and they were never the same.
They are not even a shadow of what they once were. Hope they never are!!!!!

 

[Rupp'sRunt]

I do but IU still lost in the first round of the big tournament that year

Team was a beast on college hoops 2k8 though lol

 

[ColonelCat_rivals376764]

I remember driving to Indianapolis to watch UK vs IU. That was like twenty three years ago. I remember IU as a big part of most weekends when watching games on national t.v. wow they suck now. Delusional idiots. Reading posts on IUs board, i was shocked how a bunch of losers could be so demanding. They want a SN driven team. No ONDs. Thats not the IU way. A strong bball IQ kid. Who puts IU above themselves. All the kids stay and make great memories for this delusional fan base..just idiots. Keep names off jerseys because its about IU. God forbid any of these youngmen have a idenity outside IU. No wonder top talent stays away from that hell hole..At least other programs have changed with the times and know their place in college ball. IU is still lost in BK throwing chairs and beating up the help. Lol. I will watch this dumpster fire and enjoy..losers.

I can't remember that far back--sorry.

 

[Jack_Ripper]

To hell with iu.

 

[HerrosHeroes]

Nope

 

[wildcat_bigd]

They couldn’t bring themselves to get rid of Knight even though they knew it was time way before he left

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

Having spent most of my 40 years in Indiana, I can tell you, it's a great time to be a Cats fan behind enemy lines. And I've also been seeing more and more UK fans here over the years.

I feel your pain. Only stayed one year there but it was unbearable, especially during basketball season. I never saw a fan base more insecure and jealous of one school in particular. I guess if I had to live anywhere in Indiana as opposed to Lexington I'd feel the same way.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

I'm 79 and have been an avid fan of KY since 1957 so I remember a lot of great games with Indiana. As you might expect I hated them and still think Bobby Knight was the biggest *** of all time, but he was a great coach for a long time. He lost it when Joe Hall started to get the best of him and they were never the same.
They are not even a shadow of what they once were. Hope they never are!!!!!

The first time I recall them beating us was back in the early '70's. For a while IU led us in head to head wins but now it's a different story. That game was in 1971 when Steve Downing went off on us for 47 points.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

I'm 79 and have been an avid fan of KY since 1957 so I remember a lot of great games with Indiana. As you might expect I hated them and still think Bobby Knight was the biggest *** of all time, but he was a great coach for a long time. He lost it when Joe Hall started to get the best of him and they were never the same.
They are not even a shadow of what they once were. Hope they never are!!!!!

I'm still waiting for Bobby Knight to shake Coach Hall's hand after UK beat them in the 1975 Mideast Regional.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Yeah, it was about the time they fired Bob Knight...

 

[HagginHall1999]

While the Hoosiers get no sympathy from me, if they really want to pull themselves out of their decades-long, purgatory hole that spans halfway to China, their administration needs to look themselves in the mirror and decide what their program really is in eyes of everyone that doesn’t reside in Bloomington, IN.

Their #1 issue is they don’t recruit like a program their size should. They should have a massive recruiting budget and plenty of money to throw at good assistants to do the leg work, yet they’ve had little results to show for it. Archie Miller can’t seem to get anyone to play for them this year. That’s a BIG issue.

But why? Well, for one, they don’t seem to realize that the year 1952 has come and gone. Their branding, style, look, whatever you want to call it has zero swag. They perpetually play in retro styled jerseys that should be reserved for one game a year. This works in football but not in basketball. There isn’t a single top basketball program that maintains a retro look. I’m sure the older fans will dismiss this as trivial, but I’m telling you it is not. The culture of basketball worships the modern aesthetics and it’s as important as ever to stay on top of it. No names on the jerseys, candy striped warmups, old cursive lettering - kids see this stuff. When you’re recruiting kids who are now born in the 2000s and have little to no knowledge of IU’s history, their style just isn’t going to wow them.

But to me, their biggest issue is an administration that hasn’t made it a priority to make a big splash coaching hire and propped the program up year after year as ‘good enough’. It’s crazy really, look at what Memphis did when they hired Penny H., look at what Michigan did in their coaching hire, look at how Duke embraced OAD, look at how UK embraced OAD with the arrival of Cal.. at some point you have to get a coach that you know can recruit and embrace the pursuit of the top players in the country. A lot of the vocal IU fans will say they don’t want to sell their program out to ‘OAD mercenaries’.. well ok, but I would think it’s not wise to shut yourself out from the top talent in the nation. Now to be clear, I think those same fans are lying to themselves and would gladly take any 5 star that wants to sign - let’s be real, they were kissing Romeo Langford’s a$$ to get him to commit (I know Hoosiers, he’s an Indiana boy and OAD doesn’t count when he lives in the state) - but the venom spewed by their fanbase when OAD is brought up certainly can’t help. They say they want 4-year players but as we’ve discussed on here, having lesser talented upper classmen does not make it more likely that you advance any further in the tournament when you take into consideration only a couple of programs truly have a OAD model.

Simply put, their administration again needs to stop fooling themselves that the IU brand still has the pulling power of years past and 1.) stop making lukewarm coaching hires and get someone that can relate to top recruits and 2.) embrace the glitz and glamour (notice I didn’t say cheating) of recruiting that the other top programs have done. It seems some Hoosiers want to keep their ‘prestige’ (whatever that may be) of how college basketball was played in the past but still expect to win big - no gimmicks, no OADs, etc. My question is, if you’re not going to do everything you can within the rules to win, why even have a program at all?

With all that being said, keep it up Hoosiers, you’ve never really mattered in my lifetime and I’m just fine with it staying that way!!

Carolina and Duke pretty much wear the same unis they always have with exception of Duke going black unis every once in a while.

Other than that, great post!

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

UK assistant Lynn Nance, a former FBI guy, was moving to go after Knight.

Courtesy of http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Games/19741207Indiana.html

And I believe that Nance was a former hand to hand combat instructor for the FBI or CIA, can't recall which.

 

[SemperFiCat]

I feel your pain. Only stayed one year there but it was unbearable, especially during basketball season. I never saw a fan base more insecure and jealous of one school in particular. I guess if I had to live anywhere in Indiana as opposed to Lexington I'd feel the same way.

Luckily, they are pretty quiet these days. And if a Hoosier fan wants to get obnoxious during a debate, me saying "1987" usually shuts them up pretty quick. Them sucking for so long has made many of them fairly reasonable these days. Typically, we'll just talk NCAA basketball in general instead of trash talking.

 

[U6Hater]

I'm 33 and when I was kid I remember the games played in 91 and 92. Honestly some of my earliest memories honestly. Mashburn vs Cal Cheaney in the RCA dome and UK got them. Then the next year in Freedom Hall I'm almost positive Mashburn and Ford both scored 29 for UK and Cheaney and Matt Nover both scored 29 for IU. I can't find the old box score of it but I could swear that happened.

That's really the last time UK vs IU mattered.

[thumb2]

That was the first UK game I was able to watch live. I'm 43 and I still remember holding my breath as that little ****, Bailey, clanked his three pointer at the end of the game and UK won. Couldn't stand that little turd.

Plus the big hype before the game was Bobby Knight's 600th win and it being against UK. :boxing: After that then IU didn't matter to me.

• 
  

 

[E Cat]

You could have argued going into the Elite Eight round of 1993 that Indiana had caught Kentucky and was poised to become THE greatest program in college basketball. The schools were tied with five titles. Indiana had two since Kentucky's last and had been to the Final Four the year before . With Kentucky fairly recently off probation, the Hoosiers seemed to have more momentum. Bobby Knight was 52, and seemed on top of his game with teams built around players like Calbert Chaney, Alan Henderson and Damon Bailey. Their absolutely miserable, rabid dog fans were in full pestilent swarm mode.

Since that weekend:

Indiana has been beyond the Sweet 16 exactly ONCE in 26 seasons. The program has been on probation. IU has missed seven of the last 11 NCAA tournaments. An entire generation has grown up with no inkling the Hoosiers were ever elite.

Kentucky has been to EIGHT Final Fours, FIFTEEN ELITE EIGHTS, won THREE CHAMPIONSHIPS, and has firmly cemented itself as the Greatest Program of All Time.

Great post. Was talking about this the other day. In 92, IU was definitely a top 5 program all time and arguably in top 3. Clearly ahead of Duke and KU.

Knight (and Denny Crum) didn’t adapt. Talent level dropped and to this day their talent rich state gets raided.

Have said for a while they need a total rebrand. Get rid of candy cane warmups, embrace kids who aspire to play professionally (as others mention), just try something different or unique.

I’m not in love with guys going pro early, but UK and Duke adapted to greater success than IU.

 

[YouKay]

You could have argued going into the Elite Eight round of 1993 that Indiana had caught Kentucky and was poised to become THE greatest program in college basketball. The schools were tied with five titles. Indiana had two since Kentucky's last and had been to the Final Four the year before . With Kentucky fairly recently off probation, the Hoosiers seemed to have more momentum. Bobby Knight was 52, and seemed on top of his game with teams built around players like Calbert Chaney, Alan Henderson and Damon Bailey. Their absolutely miserable, rabid dog fans were in full pestilent swarm mode.

Since that weekend:

Indiana has been beyond the Sweet 16 exactly ONCE in 26 seasons. The program has been on probation. IU has missed seven of the last 11 NCAA tournaments. An entire generation has grown up with no inkling the Hoosiers were ever elite.

Kentucky has been to EIGHT Final Fours, FIFTEEN ELITE EIGHTS, won THREE CHAMPIONSHIPS, and has firmly cemented itself as the Greatest Program of All Time.

This is really incredible. I knew IU had fallen off the table compared to UK, but this shows how completely they have fallen as UK has risen since the early 90s.

I think this is a big reason for Bob Knight's eventual meltdown. He was hired to get IU ahead of UK and he almost got there. Then Rick Pitino ruined everything. He was sure UK's program was dead and finished after the 1988 probation.

 

[CatPhight_rivals65113]

All the Indbred offspring have Hand-Mouth & Anus decrepitude from plugging their livestock.

 

[drbubba]

Heh. Just like Moses, IU fans have to look across the river to see the promise land.

Ignatius University? I hear they're pretty good.

 

[TheWyldKat_rivals45219]

Still trying to figure out why anyone thought Archie was a good hire. Didn’t understand it then and don’t now.

Same thing with Mack at UL. It’s like whoever someone hires this board thinks it’s a good hire.

We’re going through it again with Muss at Ark.

Just don’t get it.

I guess I should clarify, Miller was a good hire for Indiana. I mean who in the heck else would they be able to get? I don’t think Miller would be a good hire at UK, Unc , Kansas or any of the other Blue Bloods. But a place like Indiana who hasn’t had success in 35 or 40 years, it seemed like a reasonable higher. I do agree with your Statement. Besides that one Dayton team he really hasn’t done anything else.

 

[RogerIndy]

Having spent most of my 40 years in Indiana, I can tell you, it's a great time to be a Cats fan behind enemy lines. And I've also been seeing more and more UK fans here over the years.

I have lived in Indy for 40 years also, since I graduated from UK. It used to be I was afraid to have UK stuff on my car for fear it would get vandalized. Nobody cares anymore. Nobody at my office gives me any grief about UK, in fact I almost wish they would, so I wouldn't feel guilty about giving them grief.

 

[CELTICAT]

2013 was supposed to be their big year, and they flamed out.
Before that was the Eric Gordon year, and they flamed out.
Before that was the Bracey Wright era.
Before that was the miracle run of 2002.
Before that was the Calbert Cheney years.

That's it for IU's relevance since Reagan left office.

 

[saxonburgcat]

I'm 33 and when I was kid I remember the games played in 91 and 92. Honestly some of my earliest memories honestly. Mashburn vs Cal Cheaney in the RCA dome and UK got them. Then the next year in Freedom Hall I'm almost positive Mashburn and Ford both scored 29 for UK and Cheaney and Matt Nover both scored 29 for IU. I can't find the old box score of it but I could swear that happened.

That's really the last time UK vs IU mattered.

The source of all UK facts and stats: http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/teams.html

Okay, found that boxscore and yeah 4 player with 29 each: http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Games/19930103Indiana.html

 

[YouKay]

I graduated from UK in 1978. I was there in 1975 when we beat IU 92-90 in the mid-east regionals in Dayton Arena. IU had been undefeated up until that game. I was in my fraternity house with my fraternity brothers watching it, and it was fantastic! Too bad we couldn't beat UCLA for the championship. The great thing about that game was that when we played them early in the regular season, they embarrassed us and beat us by more than 20. But freshmen Robey and Phillips learned from that and got better as the season progressed.

Another 78 grad here! I was at the game in Dayton with the UK pep band! It was amazing. Greatest game I ever saw, and I went to the 1992 Duke game.

 

[BoulderCat_rivals187983]

I remember driving to Indianapolis to watch UK vs IU. That was like twenty three years ago. I remember IU as a big part of most weekends when watching games on national t.v. wow they suck now. Delusional idiots. Reading posts on IUs board, i was shocked how a bunch of losers could be so demanding. They want a SN driven team. No ONDs. Thats not the IU way. A strong bball IQ kid. Who puts IU above themselves. All the kids stay and make great memories for this delusional fan base..just idiots. Keep names off jerseys because its about IU. God forbid any of these youngmen have a idenity outside IU. No wonder top talent stays away from that hell hole..At least other programs have changed with the times and know their place in college ball. IU is still lost in BK throwing chairs and beating up the help. Lol. I will watch this dumpster fire and enjoy..losers.

Unfortunately yes. I was a freshman at UK in 1976. They were definitely relevant that year. Mike Davis, the guy who ran onto the court in Freedom Hall did take them to a F4, but it was a fluke.

 

[fredmanthecatfan]

Born in 1970. Growing up, IU was the main enemy. Despised the Hoosiers. Late in Knights time at IU, Knight was pretty entertaining at press conferences. He was such a jerk, it became funny.
I can remember back in the 92’ season, we had upset IU earlier. I really was not confident that we would have been able to beat them again. The only consolation I felt after the loss to Duke in 92 was thinking “better to lose to Duke than to IU. Little did I know that IU would soon be irrelevant, and Duke would become the team to hate.

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

I was born in 1993, so no.

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

I remember driving to Indianapolis to watch UK vs IU. That was like twenty three years ago. I remember IU as a big part of most weekends when watching games on national t.v. wow they suck now. Delusional idiots. Reading posts on IUs board, i was shocked how a bunch of losers could be so demanding. They want a SN driven team. No ONDs. Thats not the IU way. A strong bball IQ kid. Who puts IU above themselves. All the kids stay and make great memories for this delusional fan base..just idiots. Keep names off jerseys because its about IU. God forbid any of these youngmen have a idenity outside IU. No wonder top talent stays away from that hell hole..At least other programs have changed with the times and know their place in college ball. IU is still lost in BK throwing chairs and beating up the help. Lol. I will watch this dumpster fire and enjoy..losers.

Stuck in the 1970s.