Do we overrate Jordan's supporting cast

[Big_Blue79]

^ We'll agree to disagree about the final play of Game 1. That was 100% a foul call, and I think that's the primary source of disagreement on that play (I think it was virtually risk free). FYI the score wasn't tied; GSW was up 1.

I apologize for being over-the-top snarky. I was aggressive in this thread. There's a lot of bad takes that somehow still have traction here and elsewhere, and words like "beta" and "weak" and "clutch" are almost always stand-ins for a lack of a real argument. And I really do have a significant disdain for bad arguments, for this relentless "MJ was better LeBron sucks/*****/weak/beta" BS that creeps into every LeBron related topic, and for ignoring actual facts in support of a narrative. There's a lot of that in this thread, and to your credit you engaged in a conversation where others did not. So whatever our disagreements, thanks for engaging.

I don't think we're very far apart on most of these issues, frankly. But I am 100% for making the right basketball play whether in the waning seconds or first minute. Evidence supports the idea that hero ball is bad basketball, our fond memories notwithstanding.

 

[Blue_2_the_bone_rivals]

Dude, you clearly don't know what help defense is, how defensive rotations work, or how modern NBA defenses work. At all. Your entire post smacks of one on one D, but no one plays straight up man anymore (and they haven't since, I don't know, about 2006?), especially against any variant of the beautiful game Spurs (like GSW is). Cleveland switched nearly every screen on and off ball because that was the defense they ran all Finals. Houston executed the switching defense to perfection, while Cleveland bungled it on many occasions (bad defenders running a new scheme will do that), but the defense is the defense.

Look, I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't even know what defense Cleveland was running all Finals (let alone why), and who uses phrases like "scared" and "killer mentality" and thinks they're making a point. Just know that blowhards like Skip Bayless that argue this nonsense get paid handsomely to be wrong. You're doing it for free.

I could see the validity of your post if you were referring to the course or average possession of a game. But based on what you’re saying you obviously have no idea of the situation I’m talking about. I watched Cleveland play all season. They actually changed their normal pick and roll & ball jump defense for the Playoffs and ran some new stuff. It wasn’t a help defense situation or a defensive scheme issue. End of the shot clock and end of game isolation scenarios are completely different. Cleveland did one of two things every time in the Playoffs. In that situation they either blitz two men at the ball to force the iso guy give it up or someone plays him straight up with help only coming on a drive to the basket. A soft screen was set that KD clearly wasn’t using because too much time was on the clock. Lebron didn’t want any part of it and switched 40 feet away with plenty of time left. Same situation occurred in game 3 in 2017 and Lebron stayed with KD before he dropped the dagger in his eye.
But I’m not one who’s gonna degrade your knowledge of a game to try and make my point seem more valid. You’re not making a point. You’re only throwing rocks at the facts I put out. You don’t go into depth about schemes because you don’t even know how to describe what’s going on or why it’s going on. It’s just another apology for the “best basketball player on the planet” who deferred offensively then defensively on the two most important possessions of the season.

 

[FtCampbellCat]

For what little it's worth:

 

[motodog]

This isn't even close, besides pippen and Rodman (on the down side of his career ) the Bulls were a bunch of guys you never would have heard of had it not been for Jordan . LeBron started the super team thing and hand picked his "coaches". Not to mention there was balance in the league back then. Jordan played a decent team most nights.