Do we eventually see this team clicking... and when?

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

Thank you for being a voice of reason! I am not happy with recent results either but try to not over react. The game threads are completely unreadable for me.

Do fans not have a right to be upset? Should we should sit on our hands and cheer on Calipari as he burns the program to the ground?

 

[revcort]

Do fans not have a right to be upset? Should we should sit on our hands and cheer on Calipari as he burns the program to the ground?

I'm certain you'll disagree with me but what we see here goes beyond being upset. When you actively cheer for the opponent and want UK lose, it's too far. When you accuse any fan who actually attends a game of being a traitor to the program, it's too far. When the answer to every question is "Cal sucks!" Or "Cal can't coach!" It's overboard. So, a thread attempting to discuss the team, what needs to improve or change, when the team will gel or click, who needs to play better, what are the issues and limitations, is completely pointless when every answer is "Cal sucks!"

I'm not saying don't be upset or you're wrong to be upset or everything is fine. Be upset. I don't like where the program is and how the team has played this season, either. Maybe Calipari needs to go soon, maybe not. But THIS team will be coached by him. So, I'm going to cheer for this team and hope they improve and hope they win every game.

I'm actually in Lexington right now with my son, attending tomorrow's game. I'm gonna cheer for the Cats and hope they beat Yale. Some here think I'm a traitor. That makes ZERO sense to me.

 

[Fat-so]

I still believe Wheeler is a huge key to our play. When he plays well we play well, have for a year and a half now. Like you said he just needed to play smarter especially the last 6 minutes of a game. A lot do that is on Cal I believe because he takes away our aggression and forces him to make something out of nothing the last 8 seconds of the shot clock.

Well with Wheeler you have a dude who is quick and sneaky, but with that also comes the mindset that he can beat his man off the dribble this time and he don't never try anything mid-range it seems to me... he tries to go all the way to the basket with it where the trees are standing around everywhere. He's easy to predict what he is gonna do and when he's gonna do it.

I rather have a PG who tries to make **** happen than one who wants to stand around and throw it around the perimeter. It's just sometimes it's a lil bit too damn much lol... And when I see SW assist/TO ratio it does blow my mind. Main thing is I just want "W's". If Wheeler can get it done that's fine. I'm not always comfortable with him on the floor though, or not 35-40 MPG. I'm hoping to see some consistent chemistry start clicking today from here on out.

 

[wldktz1]

WHAT in the name of Adolf fvckin Rupp are you smokin ??

That was actually a good win. Come one they travelled to another country with a pretty substantial time change.

 

[Mike-D]

It's impossible to have a rational discussion right now on this board. It's pointless. Everything just devolves into "Cal is an idiot! Cal can't coach! Cal will just screw it up." It becomes no real discussion, just another gripe thread. But I'll give you an opinion...

I agree that this team is not what I thought it was back in the Bahamas. Once I saw what Reeves could bring and then with the way Toppin was playing and even Collins, I thought this team could be dominant, one of the best in the nation. I will say, the early injuries to Oscar and Wheeler hurt the early development. Having heard Calipari talk about how the team really doesn't put in offense in the Bahamas, it makes more sense. They were just playing man to man defense and running a couple sets on offense. Anyways, I think that's part of the problem. For Collins, the death of his father seems to have set him back significantly. He was playing with confidence and aggression in Bahamas but we haven't seen that yet.

But there is something else here that I didn't see coming. Reeves doesn't seem to deal well with physicality. And he also has backed off under pressure. He showed against Michigan that he can step up, though, so maybe he has turned a corner. Fredrick has also struggled against more athletic teams. I'm not sure that will change.

As for Toppin, he showed some signs against Michigan that he is ready to step up. Before that, he was backing down under pressure and disappeared in the big games, vs Mich St and Gonzaga. He must be a consistent player for this team to be what we thought.

I think we're still waiting on some guys- Fredrick, Collins, and Livingston- to become what we need them to be. We have seen some flashes from Onyenso which i didn't expect and could be a good addition.

The best news we've seen so far is from Cason Wallace. We knew he could become a great player as he progressed this season, and he has shown that he may be ahead of schedule.

So, what's next? I'm not sure. We need these guys who have been timid at times to step forward and be what they have the potential to be. Namely, Toppin and Reeves MUST be consistent threats every game out. We need Wallace to continue his production. We need Oscar to be Oscar. We need Wheeler to be more steady. We need Fredrick to get open and make shots.

Yale will be a challenge because of their style, which mirrors Bellarmine and Mich State. That will tell us if we're ready to step forward or not. And the next high pressure game will be UCLA at MSG. That game will tell us if we are ready for the pressure of a big game and atmosphere. The Michigan game was a step in the right direction but was still lacking consistency. Too many turnovers and dumb mistakes, too many missed free throws under pressure.

I think we will get there eventually. We're gonna have some more growing pains. I just hope we can win while growing. When we hit conference play, we'll need to take more steps ahead. I guess we'll see.

Bless your heart. You tried. Calipari teams aren't doing much anymore.

 

[John Henry]

Bless your heart. You tried. Calipari teams aren't doing much anymore.

Yes, we need fans like that to go down with the ship. It would be cruel to leave Captain Calipari all alone in the deep blue sea.

The reality is UK has not been a championship contender since 2015 and Calipari blew that one. That was his ceiling. So every season the media will hype all of the new recruits and transfers. The Cats will be ranked in the Top 5 and KSR will see stars and glory days are here again. All of the pieces will be in place for a walk to #9. Then we start playing the season and here we go again.

If the Cats finish 4th in the SEC it will be an overachievement.

 

[ukwazoo]

Don't think we'll know a whole lot until we get into the SEC...

Cal needs to quit tinkering with crap lineups and substitution patterns...he has our chemistry in chaos.

Yeah, not until we are playing consistent amount of road games will we know who is going to step up and who is going to crumble.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I agree with you completely. There needs to be some kind of rule preventing extremely negative posting, bad-mouthing coaches and players, etc. Basketball is just a game. The players and coaches are fellow human beings

I know I will get attacked for this, but on the Dook board they have such a rule. This is the message from a moderator on that board:

Just a friendly reminder: please keep posts constructive. DBR has a policy against destructively negative posts and venting.

Destructively Negative. Oh, there are times when things aren't going Duke's way, and we want to discuss the loss or other less than pleasant issue. Its OK to be negative, but do so in a manner that is not destructive to the person (particularly players, staff, and their families). "Player X has to work on his rebounding" or "Player Y really has a low shooting percentage from three point range" is fine. "Player X couldn't rebound if he was the only player on the court," "Player Y jacks up nothing but airballs," "Player Z sucks and shouldn't wear a Duke uniform," "Player X won't have a place and should transfer," are all examples of Destructively Negative. We don't throw players under the bus here.

Venting. Related to Destructively Negative. If you're too emotional to post thoughtfully, don't post.

Do what?! That’s much too subjective. Our coach has just completely quit coaching offense and it’s beyond absurd. He also won’t change his defense, ever. Maybe if his priorities were in order people wouldn’t ***** as much. We play for national titles here, not NBA Draft picks.

 

[BlueWorldOrder74]

I remember watching UK basketball basically implode versus Georgia on senior day in BCG’s last season; then actually turned the game off versus Florida when we didn’t even attempt to compete. The team had given up on coach, the fans had given up on coach. It was a disaster. The media was in a frenzy. Fans were carrying pitchforks. We aren’t close to that yet. I will keep supporting the team best I can. Doesn’t mean I don’t think Cal has issues, but I will try to remain as positive as possible. But, we have issues. For sure.

 

[Gromcat_rivals]

I'm certain you'll disagree with me but what we see here goes beyond being upset. When you actively cheer for the opponent and want UK lose, it's too far. When you accuse any fan who actually attends a game of being a traitor to the program, it's too far. When the answer to every question is "Cal sucks!" Or "Cal can't coach!" It's overboard. So, a thread attempting to discuss the team, what needs to improve or change, when the team will gel or click, who needs to play better, what are the issues and limitations, is completely pointless when every answer is "Cal sucks!"

I'm not saying don't be upset or you're wrong to be upset or everything is fine. Be upset. I don't like where the program is and how the team has played this season, either. Maybe Calipari needs to go soon, maybe not. But THIS team will be coached by him. So, I'm going to cheer for this team and hope they improve and hope they win every game.

I'm actually in Lexington right now with my son, attending tomorrow's game. I'm gonna cheer for the Cats and hope they beat Yale. Some here think I'm a traitor. That makes ZERO sense to me.

I don’t think you’re a traitor I’m taking my son to a game soon. But I do think you’re essentially refusing to accept a lot. For example, you say people have a right to be upset at where “the season” is going. Umm, what? Do I need to lay out how horrible Calipari has been over YEARS, YEARS, at this program? There is no “this season” he’s been downright fireable for half his tenure. You just refuse to accept that because in my opinion his spell has got ya man.

This program is suffering under Calipari and a few you (vast minority just look around) constantly try and underplay just how bad it’s been. That’s not what a UK fan should be doing.

I think Rupp is headed for a lot of empty seats for the first time, and fan apathy is at levels never seen before. And you should know that. Our program comes before a salesman who uses this program and doesn’t take care of it. I don’t understand any fan that limits or makes light of just how bad this really is and IL you do it a lot. It’s time to wake up.

 

[Gromcat_rivals]

I agree with you completely. There needs to be some kind of rule preventing extremely negative posting, bad-mouthing coaches and players, etc. Basketball is just a game. The players and coaches are fellow human beings

I know I will get attacked for this, but on the Dook board they have such a rule. This is the message from a moderator on that board:

Just a friendly reminder: please keep posts constructive. DBR has a policy against destructively negative posts and venting.

Destructively Negative. Oh, there are times when things aren't going Duke's way, and we want to discuss the loss or other less than pleasant issue. Its OK to be negative, but do so in a manner that is not destructive to the person (particularly players, staff, and their families). "Player X has to work on his rebounding" or "Player Y really has a low shooting percentage from three point range" is fine. "Player X couldn't rebound if he was the only player on the court," "Player Y jacks up nothing but airballs," "Player Z sucks and shouldn't wear a Duke uniform," "Player X won't have a place and should transfer," are all examples of Destructively Negative. We don't throw players under the bus here.

Venting. Related to Destructively Negative. If you're too emotional to post thoughtfully, don't post.

You want people banned for saying a player “jacks up air balls”?

Lol. Calipari has been, objectively, horrible for the UK program and continues to not take this program seriously. He should be fired.

Should I be banned for speaking that kind of truth^^. Tell me?

This is UK. The proudest program with the most involved fan base of them all. If you want it how Duke does it, then you’ve already been to their board. Just stay there.

Should I be banned for that too?

 

[revcort]

I don’t think you’re a traitor I’m taking my son to a game soon. But I do think you’re essentially refusing to accept a lot. For example, you say people have a right to be upset at where “the season” is going. Umm, what? Do I need to lay out how horrible Calipari has been over YEARS, YEARS, at this program? There is no “this season” he’s been downright fireable for half his tenure. You just refuse to accept that because in my opinion his spell has got ya man.

This program is suffering under Calipari and a few you (vast minority just look around) constantly try and underplay just how bad it’s been. That’s not what a UK fan should be doing.

I think Rupp is headed for a lot of empty seats for the first time, and fan apathy is at levels never seen before. And you should know that. Our program comes before a salesman who uses this program and doesn’t take care of it. I don’t understand any fan that limits or makes light of just how bad this really is and IL you do it a lot. It’s time to wake up.

You must have missed where I said that I'm also upset with where "the program" is. That was a reference to the previous seasons. That was a reference to the terrible season 2 years ago and the terrible ending to the season last year. Of course I'm upset about all of that.

Cal has not been "fireable for half his tenure." That is the kind of comment that makes you look completely unreasonable. We've had some disappointing seasons in there, to be sure, but the only season where he would have been fireable was that 9-16 season. That loss last season was probably the worst single tournament loss in my lifetime, but it came at the end of a 28-8 season, which is pretty darn good. So, is that a fireable offense? No. It ruined my March and I hated it with a passion, and I was very upset with the team and with Calipari, but it's not something you fire a coach over.

And this is really the issue with folks around here- most are older fans who live and die by the games. I'm not far off that myself. I'm 50. I've seen 4 titles in my lifetime. I've seen some great teams. I know what a championship team looks like. One of those teams was assembled by Calipari, by the way. I do expect wins and I demand them as well. So, I ask myself- am I seeing lack of effort from the team? Am I seeing guys losing interest? Has Cal stopped recruiting? Has he stopped making any adjustments to staff or changes that need to be made? The answer to all is no.

Remember when Gillispie was at the end? It was painfully obvious that everyone, including his own players, had given up on him. We're not there. Next season could be the best recruiting class we've had since the Towns, Booker, Ulis, and Lyles class. Clearly, Cal isn't done and recruits are still signing on the dotted line.

So, I ask myself, who can get us back to where we need to be? First of all, this season, while frustrating, could still end well. This team has the potential to be very good. They are not as good as I thought they would be at this point, but the potential is still there. And secondly, if this season doesn't get us back to where we should be, next season could do it. If you fire Calipari today, that class is gone overnight. It would be very unwise.

So, if this season becomes a debacle and next season does as well, the heat will be on Calipari even more. I think he's already feeling the heat, and rightfully so. I just don't think he deserves to be fired. I especially want to see next season's recruiting class play at UK because I think that group, along with a few holdovers from this season, could compete for #9. But if they flop, I'll join the rest of the chorus here and call for his firing. But as for THIS season, I'm not going to join in with the rest and make outlandish and exaggerated claims blaming Cal for everything from players' free throw percentages to some just not showing up in some of these games (like Toppin and Fredrick) nor will I join in with the conspiracy theorists who think he intentionally misleads and lies and is basically a terrible human being. Some of what gets said around here is pure hate.

And I certainly will not join in with those who want the team to lose every game until Cal is gone nor will I accuse fellow fans of being traitors to BBN by attending games or wanting the team to do well. It is a downward spiral of hate here. Cal can do nothing right at this point. And yes, the 9-16 season and the St Peter's loss means he's brought some of that on himself. But we've become a caricature of ourselves here at this point. We're totally unreasonable. I'm not going there. Accuse me of not being a fan if you must, which you just did, but I'm 100% a fan for life.

 

[Catswin9]

Haven't seen many new topics pop up in the last day or so, so figured I'd throw out this question. I'll be the first to admit I was wrong about this team, at least in the early-going. I truly thought we were going to come out as a dominant team from the jump, based on our returning experience, etc. Anyway, it was about this time last year the CATS fell to 7-2 after losing to Notre Dame. Then we really started to see the team click and hit their stride, and six weeks later they easily looked like the best team in the country. We know how the story ended of course. But here we are a year later. I think we still have the pieces to get where we all want the team to go, but it's got to come together. I'm hoping we take care of business against Yale and then actually looking like a confident bunch with a solid win over UCLA... that's when we can potentially see the "click". If we can get to 8-2, I think we can definitely be 12-2 heading into the Bama game. By then everything is out in front of us, even if we fell to 12-3 @ Bama.

Do you think we continue to look disjointed? Are we getting closer? Do you think it's still too early to tell? Does this team have enough in its arsenal to be an actual contender?

This is a good team, but it's not a Sweet Sixteen team. This team will struggle to win against all the remaining teams they will play. Sadly, I have no confidence in Calipari's coaching skills.

 

[Gromcat_rivals]

You must have missed where I said that I'm also upset with where "the program" is. That was a reference to the previous seasons. That was a reference to the terrible season 2 years ago and the terrible ending to the season last year. Of course I'm upset about all of that.

Cal has not been "fireable for half his tenure." That is the kind of comment that makes you look completely unreasonable. We've had some disappointing seasons in there, to be sure, but the only season where he would have been fireable was that 9-16 season. That loss last season was probably the worst single tournament loss in my lifetime, but it came at the end of a 28-8 season, which is pretty darn good. So, is that a fireable offense? No. It ruined my March and I hated it with a passion, and I was very upset with the team and with Calipari, but it's not something you fire a coach over.

And this is really the issue with folks around here- most are older fans who live and die by the games. I'm not far off that myself. I'm 50. I've seen 4 titles in my lifetime. I've seen some great teams. I know what a championship team looks like. One of those teams was assembled by Calipari, by the way. I do expect wins and I demand them as well. So, I ask myself- am I seeing lack of effort from the team? Am I seeing guys losing interest? Has Cal stopped recruiting? Has he stopped making any adjustments to staff or changes that need to be made? The answer to all is no.

Remember when Gillispie was at the end? It was painfully obvious that everyone, including his own players, had given up on him. We're not there. Next season could be the best recruiting class we've had since the Towns, Booker, Ulis, and Lyles class. Clearly, Cal isn't done and recruits are still signing on the dotted line.

So, I ask myself, who can get us back to where we need to be? First of all, this season, while frustrating, could still end well. This team has the potential to be very good. They are not as good as I thought they would be at this point, but the potential is still there. And secondly, if this season doesn't get us back to where we should be, next season could do it. If you fire Calipari today, that class is gone overnight. It would be very unwise.

So, if this season becomes a debacle and next season does as well, the heat will be on Calipari even more. I think he's already feeling the heat, and rightfully so. I just don't think he deserves to be fired. I especially want to see next season's recruiting class play at UK because I think that group, along with a few holdovers from this season, could compete for #9. But if they flop, I'll join the rest of the chorus here and call for his firing. But as for THIS season, I'm not going to join in with the rest and make outlandish and exaggerated claims blaming Cal for everything from players' free throw percentages to some just not showing up in some of these games (like Toppin and Fredrick) nor will I join in with the conspiracy theorists who think he intentionally misleads and lies and is basically a terrible human being. Some of what gets said around here is pure hate.

And I certainly will not join in with those who want the team to lose every game until Cal is gone nor will I accuse fellow fans of being traitors to BBN by attending games or wanting the team to do well. It is a downward spiral of hate here. Cal can do nothing right at this point. And yes, the 9-16 season and the St Peter's loss means he's brought some of that on himself. But we've become a caricature of ourselves here at this point. We're totally unreasonable. I'm not going there. Accuse me of not being a fan if you must, which you just did, but I'm 100% a fan for life.

I don’t have time to read it all I will later but I wanted to say I was being hyperbolic. But Yes Calipari has been fireable for quite a while now.

 

[revcort]

I don’t have time to read it all I will later but I wanted to say I was being hyperbolic. But Yes Calipari has been fireable for quite a while now.

I know. I wrote a book. Sorry.

 

[shakestheclown564_rivals213940]

People really worried about the game threads being unreadable when the games themselves are unwatchable?

 

[CincyUKFan]

I don’t have time to read it all I will later but I wanted to say I was being hyperbolic. But Yes Calipari has been fireable for quite a while now.

I’ll sum up what he said for you:

1. He has irrational hope for this year’s team to still become special.
2. If they suck again this year, it doesn’t matter because next year the big guns are coming.
3. If they suck again next year, he’ll stop defending his homeboy Cal.