Data Centers

[unctarheel1984]

Is it possible to discuss the benefit and burden of these massive data centers without it becoming political?

I see so much against, but it’s all anecdotal opinion and unsourced claims. Where are the actual studies proving environmental damage, poisoned water, etc. With hundreds already in operation it would seem fairly simple to start counting dead bodies in places like Loudoun County, Virginia, for example. Are those places really becoming unlivable hell holes or not?

 

[kik84]

We need to incentivize AI growth and build-out. We can't cede AI supremacy to China.

 

[mpaer]

There are places that want Data centers Let them have them
At this point they need to devlop a power supply and water supply that does not suck up everyone else's normal supply

 

[THEericstrattonrushchairman]

Many data centers are located in areas without a lot of water. Data centers need a lot of water

 

[Icthyphile]

Is it possible to discuss the benefit and burden of these massive data centers without it becoming political?

I see so much against, but it’s all anecdotal opinion and unsourced claims. Where are the actual studies proving environmental damage, poisoned water, etc. With hundreds already in operation it would seem fairly simple to start counting dead bodies in places like Loudoun County, Virginia, for example. Are those places really becoming unlivable hell holes or not?

There is already quite a bit of data available on the negative impacts. Here three of the studies.

Rising Emissions, Depleting Water and Vanishing Land—UN Scientists: AI Is Threatening Natural Resources for Billions

By 2030, AI's water use will match the needs of 1.3 billion people while its power use triples that of 650 million, UN University investigation warns

unu.edu

The environmental footprint of data centers in the United States | Energy Analysis Division

energyanalysis.lbl.gov

Data Drain: The Land and Water Impacts of the AI Boom - Lincoln Institute of Land Policy

Communities across the US are wooing data centers with tax breaks and other incentives. But data centers are resource-ravenous, creating demands for land, water, and power that many host communities are not prepared to meet.

www.lincolninst.edu

 

[Icthyphile]

We need to incentivize AI growth and build-out. We can't cede AI supremacy to China.

It’s probably inevitable. They’re already way ahead of us on renewable energy. Having said that, they’re still the worlds largest consumer of coal accounting for more than half of the worlds coal usage. They’ve got a pretty dismal record of natural resource conservation.

 

[unctarheel1984]

There is already quite a bit of data available on the negative impacts. Here three of the studies.

Rising Emissions, Depleting Water and Vanishing Land—UN Scientists: AI Is Threatening Natural Resources for Billions

By 2030, AI's water use will match the needs of 1.3 billion people while its power use triples that of 650 million, UN University investigation warns

unu.edu

The environmental footprint of data centers in the United States | Energy Analysis Division

energyanalysis.lbl.gov

Data Drain: The Land and Water Impacts of the AI Boom - Lincoln Institute of Land Policy

Communities across the US are wooing data centers with tax breaks and other incentives. But data centers are resource-ravenous, creating demands for land, water, and power that many host communities are not prepared to meet.

www.lincolninst.edu

That was helpful. Thank you. I noticed the UNU article just came out today. Both were very informative.

 

[mpaer]

Once the billion dollar construction job is done
A data center has like 20 jobs
And typically the local county gives the data center a humungous tax break on their billion dollar building
We may need them-we just need to get structure where they pay their weight-and they no doubt can without harm to them

 

[Chamtrain]

My biggest beef is that Duke Power is raising OUR rates to pay for the build out needed to support them. It's wild that this is being allowed...

 

[mpaer]

My biggest beef is that Duke Power is raising OUR rates to pay for the build out needed to support them. It's wild that this is being allowed...

Well they raised our rates to pay for the Dan River pollution disaster ( Dan River, right?) Did not touch the shareholders. I saw what seemed like an educated talking head the other day discussing Utilities Commissions' approach. Basically the goal is to give a 9-11% rate of return . So Utilities are encouraged to spend more and more -there is little risk-they get a 9-11% returns?
I think Duke Power provides a great service-they know what they are doing. But the tradeoff for them having a Monopoly has been lost

 

[PINEHEEL]

Yeah, the existence of data centers isn't the real problem. Stop giving local tax incentives, stop asking us to subsidize their water and energy usage, and stop telling people it's creating jobs.

They're socializing costs (environmental and financial) and privatizing profits.

 

[unctarheel1984]

Yeah, the existence of data centers isn't the real problem. Stop giving local tax incentives, stop asking us to subsidize their water and energy usage, and stop telling people it's creating jobs.

They're socializing costs (environmental and financial) and privatizing profits.

And depending on where they are located the water resources (to a lesser extent the power resources) are finite. If those resources are monopolized by a data center how does the community grow jobs, houses, other industry without an adequate water supply?

 

[FreeLunch]

And, of course, from ChatGPT …. courtesy of your friendly neighborhood data center :



Here are the benefits and costs of data centers summarized clearly:

Benefits of Data Centers​

1. Reliable Data Storage and Availability
   • Keep large volumes of data safe, organized, and accessible.
   • Support 24/7 operations with minimal downtime.
   • Easy and permanent access to hot pictures of Jordon Hudson
2. Scalability
   • Easily expand infrastructure to accommodate growing data and computing needs.
3. Improved Performance
   • Provide fast data processing and low latency through optimized infrastructure.
4. Security
   • Employ physical and cybersecurity measures to protect sensitive information.
5. Centralized Management
   • Simplify IT operations by centralizing hardware, software, and network resources.
6. Disaster Recovery
   • Enable backup and recovery solutions to minimize data loss during emergencies.

Costs of Data Centers​

1. High Capital Expenditure
   • Require significant investment in physical infrastructure, hardware, and networking equipment.
2. Operating Costs
   • Ongoing expenses for power, cooling, maintenance, and staffing.
3. Environmental Impact
   • High energy consumption can contribute to carbon emissions unless green energy is used.
   • Facilitates pollution of our basketball message board with incessant posts about Dook basketball.
4. Complex Maintenance
   • Need skilled personnel for constant monitoring, updates, and troubleshooting.
5. Space Requirements
   • Large physical space needed, which can be costly, especially in urban areas.
6. Security Risks
   • Despite protections, they can be targets for cyberattacks or physical breaches.

If you'd like, I can also explain different types of data centers or how cloud services compare to traditional data centers.

 

[unctarheel1984]

There is a strong NIMBY element in the opposition to data centers. I am guilty of that as well.

 

[Heel9091DS]

Is it possible to discuss the benefit and burden of these massive data centers without it becoming political?

I see so much against, but it’s all anecdotal opinion and unsourced claims. Where are the actual studies proving environmental damage, poisoned water, etc. With hundreds already in operation it would seem fairly simple to start counting dead bodies in places like Loudoun County, Virginia, for example. Are those places really becoming unlivable hell holes or not?

Shapiro in PA has found a middle ground embracing data centers but with sensible consumer and resident protections. Or at least that’s how most voters on both sides of our political divide seem to see it.

Won’t get into the political dynamics in PA that make compromise both necessary and possible, but PA proves it can be done.

 

[unctarheel1984]

An Amazon data center in Richmond County, NC wants to use diesel power. Why there’s pushback

Read more at: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article316724525.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Louigi]

I have no strong opinion on data centers one way or another. Although, my BS meter goes up whenever I see “environmentalists” against something because these are really anti capitalists groups is disguise most of the time. Some of the sources linked above are from some pretty left leaning groups. I don’t know if they are right or wrong, but again, my BS, meter goes up.

Here is a source that is not so much from the left about water usage. Apparently, not all data centers have to use water.

Myths vs. Reality: Data Centers And Water Usage - Florida Water and Pollution Control Operators Association

Water has become a flashpoint in debates over data centers. Reports of massive water use have fueled community protests from Arizona to the Netherlands over fears that data centers are draining local water supplies. These concerns are understanda

www.fwpcoa.org

Also, carbon emissions will be of little issue if they use nuclear, natural gas, or other renewable sources.

Truthfully, I’m more concerned that one day we will look back and wish we had been more like Sarah Conner once we let this thing out of the box and combine it with robots.

 

[UNCBornandBred]

The propaganda on the other side of the Data Center build-out has been traced to groups funded by CCP. That's really all you need to know.

The US should be building these Data Centers everywhere its feasible and now.

 

[Uncmba2]

I'm in the Electric Utility business. The issue I have is that Data Centers are causing a huge explosion in the building of Gas Power Plants, and those plants are going to be 2 or 3 times the cost of plants built a decade ago.

Historically we take all costs and average them out to all customers. But I feel that the incremental cost caused by the Data Center should be borne by them.

Let's say that our previous customers built a grid that cost $100. The new grid caused by the increased demand is going to cost $300. Do the existing customers pay $100 or $200 if we average the costs?