Darius Miller

[morgousky]

We had 7 freshmen in our Top 8 and lost a barnburner for the title in ‘14. And in hindsight, that team wasn’t overly talented.

But they lost, to an older team with a senior(?) pg.

Like I said college basketball isn't very deep. A team full of freshman are essentially sophomores in march. They can go deep, but eventually there will probably be a talented team with older vets who are just as talented as far as the college game goes.

The simple fact is Cal has one title at UK with 3 key upperclassman and returning contributers is what matters imo. I think a mix is the best recipe. 2012 was perfect.

 

[morgousky]

What?

I think Gonzo laid out the whole story. Lamb, Jones, and Miller were all on the team the previous year. They lost 3 key parts off a final four team and still got better. Not slightly better, but 38-2 better. So good that they basically won the title game only playing hard for 30 minutes. All team members contributed to the title, but Davis and MKG were they keys to that team.

They got better because we had 2 transcendent freshman to go along with 2 sophomores and a senior. Make Miller a senior in '11, and no lockout, Davis and MKG probably wouldn't have been enough. Take Davis off the team it probably wouldn't have been enough.

Freshman can't win it themselves unless you get a crazy good class and land a huge portion of the top 10. Just like a team of average seniors cant do it.

 

[morgousky]

It is debatable, because there's no concrete evidence to the contrary.

The only thing we know it takes to win a title is good players. If you replace Doron Lamb with Bradley Beal, I'd have a hard time saying that team is less likely to win it all.

The reason "no one has won it with all freshmen" is because it's hard to recruit 5 freshmen that good. No one has ever tried to do it, that I'm aware of. You need the perfect roster situation, the rides available, the recruiting prowess, etc.

But yes, players typically improve with age and experience, so a lesser talented player as an upperclassman is going to play better than he did as a freshman, helping to narrow the gap. So what you're almost always going to see are talented upperclassmen.

But it's like saying you're more likely to die on a Tuesday than when Haley's Comet is passing above your house.

You think it's debatable that without the lockout and Jones/Lamb leaving, we could have won that title?

Sure we would have recruited in their place but then you would have had a much younger team. I just don't think a team of all freshman can finish off the final four.

 

[bluedog79]

Miller's best move is the top of key dribble move 18ft jumper. It was his bread and butter at UK before and after Coach Cal arrived. I don't think the Pelicans have discovered this about Miller's game yet. He can get his own shot and nail 18 footers all day long.

It's kinda funny thinking back about Miller. Remember when he used to have some fadeaway in his 3 pt jumper? Now he hits nba 3's... crazy

 

[morgousky]

The truth is you need 5 players to fill the lineup, with enough players off the bench to give those guys breaks, and all of them need to be able to play at an extremely high level. It does not matter if they are freshmen, seniors or in between. 2012 worked because we had a high level contributor at every position, and due to the versatility, 1 player off the bench that could give any of them breaks, who all were able to play at a high level. That is what you need, and let's quit getting hung up on whether these guys are freshmen or something else, we just need guys that can play at a high level.

The fans always love the multi-year guys because we feel like we get to know them, and like they are part of our families. That connection is lost on the guys who only stay one year. But in terms of the team itself, experience makes no difference, because if it did, we would not have seen all the success that we have seen over the past 8 years.

Still hard to believe people don't see just how important returnees are. You will recruit good enough to land 5 freshman in the same class that can contribute to that level. Hell thats not including the Fact that it would be nearly impossible to find a class that deep in the first place.

There are dreams.

 

[coolioo1]

a guy his size that can hit the three is a premium in the NBA these days. This is why Tatum was drafted so high last year and why Knox is going to be a hot commodity come June. This is the Curry, Klay Thompson effect. This is also why it was so smart for Booker to have gone pro when he did. If Gaberiel can pick up his 3 point shooting he would be somewhat similar

 

[weatherbird]

Still hard to believe people don't see just how important returnees are. You will recruit good enough to land 5 freshman in the same class that can contribute to that level. Hell thats not including the Fact that it would be nearly impossible to find a class that deep in the first place.

There are dreams.

I'm still waiting for somebody to give me proof you have to have returnees. Is it good to have them?? Sure. Is it a necessity? No. Again, are we just gonna ignore the 4 games the 2014 team won on the way to the title game against veteran teams who all led in the last 4 minutes?? 3 of which were coming off Final Four berths. And put all our focus on a single championship game when our best player was maybe 60% healthy?? That's going to be evidence that you can't win it with Freshmen??

 

[morgousky]

I'm still waiting for somebody to give me proof you have to have returnees. Is it good to have them?? Sure. Is it a necessity? No. Again, are we just gonna ignore the 4 games the 2014 team won on the way to the title game against veteran teams who all led in the last 4 minutes?? 3 of which were coming off Final Four berths. And put all our focus on a single championship game when our best player was maybe 60% healthy?? That's going to be evidence that you can't win it with Freshmen??

The 2014 team lost before they finished the job. Final fours are not titles. If you want to argue a team of 5 freshman can get a path to a final four this day and age I'm with you. If you want to argue a team full of mainly freshman and 5 freshman starters can win the big one, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Cat in ga]

Having the upperclassmen definitely helped, but AD was a monster, completely dominated a game without scoring much. Not many guys can do that. He had one of the most dominating seasons ever. Being surrounded by other great players didn't hurt either.

 

[Drcats2025]

Let me pick my top 7 from almost any high school class every year; I will compete for a national title every season and I cannot coach as well as Johnny Jones

Wut

 

[Bluegrassking]

The 2014 team lost before they finished the job. Final fours are not titles. If you want to argue a team of 5 freshman can get a path to a final four this day and age I'm with you. If you want to argue a team full of mainly freshman and 5 freshman starters can win the big one, I'll believe it when I see it.

He negated your why though. You are reduced to "it's never happened" which is evidence but far from proof. Every scenario never happened before until it did.

That team beat a lot of high level experience time after time. It isn't a matter of running up against a team with a quality mix of talent and experience.

They beat three of the previous year's Final Four each with a lot of returnees in a one and done, you don't get to blow that off and it puts a hell of a dent in your rationale leaving you with an opinion rather than a hypothesis much less a theory.

You are most certainly entitled to your opinion but it is time to stop pretending you are presenting a fact.

 

[GonzoCat90]

You think it's debatable that without the lockout and Jones/Lamb leaving, we could have won that title?

Sure we would have recruited in their place but then you would have had a much younger team. I just don't think a team of all freshman can finish off the final four.

Yes, I think it's debatable. All I'm saying is that something not happening isn't proof that it can't. There simply hasn't been anyone sincerely try for a whole host of factors.

 

[AndreHoldingMyRearend]

He's the reason we had the season we had and won the title in 2012. It wasn't Anthony Davis or MKG.
It was more Miller, Lamb, and Jones. The young guys were good but not the reason the success was there.
Heart goes a long way. None nowadays much, but granted it comes with time and experience.

I agree we wouldn't have been near as good as we were without miller as miller had the silkiest mid range shot in cbb and was a damn good 3 shooter his senior season. And I agree lamb was awesome due to him being automatic from 3. But AD is the most dominant player I've ever seen touch a college court. He didn't need to score a point and would still be the best player in the game. I think he's the best defensive player in the history of CBB and is the best player in the history of UKBB. Defenses had no choice but to settle for mkg contested jumpers due to AD's ability to decimate a team's hopes by swatting shot after shot and if he didn't swat it then he altered it significantly. AD is the main reason we won the title. Plain and simple. He ruined every single game plan an opponent had against us. He literally punked every team he faced for the entire season, stole every players manhood and ripped every single opposing player's heart out.