Damn I am rooting for Rick Ray...

[dawgstudent]

but last night was an abomination. At least Ray realizes it...

"We've got to start giving a return on the investment. The administration, everybody's invested in this program. We have to start giving a return on that investment."

 

[KentuckyDawg13]

Me too...hard to do so after that showing. Was very disappointed in the player's shootings but more so in the lack of support from the fans. I have NEVER seen the Hump so empty. And I was a student in the late 80s, the rebuilding years (Williams). Pitiful.

 

[patdog]

I think last night may have been my turning point from pulling for Ray to win to pulling for a complete and total disaster this season so we can start over next year.

 

[Jacknut1]

He's a great guy and I really want him to succeed, but in the end it's all about the Ws.

 

[Shmuley]

from day one, this was foreseeable. Horrible hire.

 

[dawgstudent]

He obviously wasn't a known commodity but I still am rooting for him to win.

Even if you think it was a bad hire, it is what it is and you let it play out. Now the question is - is playing out after year 3 or year 4?

 

[ALdawg.sixpack]

And compared to what Auburn did (a historically worse program), it makes it look even worse. Auburn hasn't had success there yet, but give Pearl 3 years and I'd bet they're in the tourney.

 

[KentuckyDawg13]

Was the St. Louis game just a fluke?

 

[dawgstudent]

I would say yes and no. They are horrible but the fluke part was we shot 55.6% from the floor.

 

[Seinfeld]

Without a doubt. I look for both Auburn and A&M to be very strong in a couple more years.

 

[HueFreeze]

Can we switch basketball to Nike?

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Depends on how it compares to where he and the administration expect MSU to be and taking into consideration injuries and such. In other words, if they collapse, I wouldn't be surprised to see a change. If they don't collapse and play hard, Year 4.

 

[johnson86-1]

He obviously wasn't a known commodity but I still am rooting for him to win.

Even if you think it was a bad hire, it is what it is and you let it play out. Now the question is - is playing out after year 3 or year 4?

At this pace, probably after year 3. If there's not clear improvement this year, there's not much reason to expect it next year. If by some miracle he signs Malik, then that changes things, but right now, it looks like it's time for a change. Ray took over a terrible situation, and it stinks for him because he could be going through growing pains and learning experiences this year that he didn't get to have his first two years because of the shape the program was in, but fair or not, there don't seem to be any signs that would justify giving him a 4th year. Still plenty of time for him to change that, but I'm not sure how likely it is that things will start clicking midseason in year three.

A fourth year is not unjustifiable. I think it takes four years to really know when about a coach unless they are completely incompetent. I don't think Ray is incompetent, I think he just wasn't good enough to overcome the situation he walked into and may not be good enough to be an SEC coach period. But if we feel like we have a decent replacement available out there, we're probably better off making the move now rather than going through a year of lame duck recruiting and giving the next coach that much less talent to work with.

 

[Shmuley]

I've said end of year 3 from day one. I stand by that. He has to go. And keenum's *** needs to handle the hire. And by "handle" I mean he needs to retain a pro to conduct the search and oversee the negotiations.

 

[dawgstudent]

I know you have but once he became our coach - I hoped he would be the guy.

 

[Shmuley]

I hope it's clear that I blame only one person for this hot garbage we are being forced to endure and that's Scotty Strempleton.

 

[The Peeper]

Williams was rebuilding from the years I was there, '82-'85 when we ran the "Bob Boyd 45 second 4 corner stall and let Jeff Malone shoot it" offense. The highlight of the games were when Uncle Bob would put in Mackye White or Kermit Davis Jr when the game had long been decided and the rare occasion that they would score. The ticket office handed out free tickets like Halloween candy in those days, by the handfuls. We avg 45 points Boyds first year!

 

[OzarkaNSW]

Rick Ray is garbage water

 

[KentuckyDawg13]

Williams was the coach from 86-98.

Williams was rebuilding from the years I was there, '82-'85 when we ran the "Bob Boyd 45 second 4 corner stall and let Jeff Malone shoot it" offense. The highlight of the games were when Uncle Bob would put in Mackye White or Kermit Davis Jr when the game had long been decided and the rare occasion that they would score. The ticket office handed out free tickets like Halloween candy in those days, by the handfuls. We avg 45 points Boyds first year!

 

[TwoDawgs]

The key is Sword. I have never seen a player be night and day upon a return from injury. Will we ever see the freshmen or sophomore Chicken? He is nothing close to what he was the first two years. Not saying we would be world beaters, but it would be nice to have old Chicken back.

 

[msstate7]

The key is Sword. I have never seen a player be night and day upon a return from injury. Will we ever see the freshmen or sophomore Chicken? He is nothing close to what he was the first two years. Not saying we would be world beaters, but it would be nice to have old Chicken back.

I wouldn't even play him until he's back. He's a major liability right now

 

[maroonmania]

Was the St. Louis game just a fluke?

That is the most head scratching thing to me. This team is currently just a shell of what it was just a few weeks ago when we beat Utah St. and St. Louis. I mean we were never going to be a really good team or anything and we just plain out don't have enough scorers on the team but this product that has been on the court the last 3 games is a horror show.

 

[patdog]

He's saying the 82-85 years under Boyd is what Williams had to rebuild from, starting in 86. The last 3 years have been as bad as Boyd's last season and Williams's first one, when we went 3-15 in the SEC back to back.

 

[paindonthurt_]

I'm curious as to what your disdain for Stricklin is (in general not just with Rick Ray)?

Was Ray a homerun? No, but its not like we had well known names lining up for the job either.

 

[esplanade91]

I'm not claiming he's 100%, but his effort was **** last night. Zero hustle. I understand playing through injuries and whatnot, but that wasn't it. The freshmen were the only players who looked like they wanted to be there.

That's what pushes me over the edge on the "fire Ray" debate. I'm not convinced that we're better off right now than when he took over. The next guy might tell half the team to transfer.

 

[AT4 Dawg]

I'm curious as to what your disdain for Stricklin is (in general not just with Rick Ray)?

Was Ray a homerun? No, but its not like we had well known names lining up for the job either.

Let's start from the top and just point out the obvious where Stricklin hired an assistant with ZERO name recognition from a team coming off of a 16 win season that had no ties to the SEC and no head coaching experience. Then you consider the fact that Scott knew that Stans's fate was sealed after the Georgia loss that eliminated us from the tournament and yet he was still overwhelmed and unprepared. And then he continues to get played by several coaching "candidates" and their agents so that their contracts got a healthy increase. And the weekend after we fired Rick, Scott was in Starkville for all 3 home baseball games instead of using that time looking for a basketball coach.


Oh and he had to follow in the footsteps of the Ninja who went dark during both the major coaching searches he conducted and didnt resurface until he brought the university two coaches that took their respective teams to all time highs.

 

[fishwater99]

It's all on Ray. He just can't coach. This could have been the worst hire ever at State.
We have some talent on the interior, but we keep shooting outside shot after outside shot. I don't get it.
I don't see us having any realistic shot at signing Malik.

It's time for a change, but I have no faith in our AD to make a good hire.

 

[The Peeper]

Yeah, what patdog said. RW was rebuilding after Uncle Bob retired back to SoCal. He was a really nice guy, but.....

 

[Shmuley]

There is no f'n way Horatio lets it happen. No f'n way.

 

[patdog]

All of that boils down to one bad hire in very difficult circumstances. Jeremy Foley is somehow considered a good AD by most people and yet he's managed to hire both Ron Zook and Will Muschamp in MUCH better circumstances. Stricklin has made excellent hires other than the one failure.

 

[patdog]

I have to agree with you fish. They had Ray miked up for the game the other night. All he could say when Ark. St. was scoring at will was, "you gotta get some stops" over and over. Hell, I could have told them that. How about changing out of that zone, making some adjustments, or some substitutions? As for Malik, if I'm Horatio Webster, no matter how much I may love MSU, I can't let my son with that much potential sign to play here.

 

[Seinfeld]

I don't think Ray is incompetent, I think he just wasn't good enough to overcome the situation he walked into and may not be good enough to be an SEC coach period.

I agree, but if you ask me, this is pretty damning for him. No matter what side of the fence that folks are on as to who should or shouldn't be coach right now, I think we can all agree that Ray inherited a tough situation. With that said, I'll continue to say that the whole "dumpster fire" picture that people like to paint is completely overblown.

The Sidney situation was a fiasco and the program was viewed as a circus by the national media, but let's not act like we were staring down the barrel of NCAA sanctions, scholarship reductions, and probation. THAT would be a dumpster fire. Having to assemble a new roster and coach said team towards success during a 3-4 year window of SEC play is not, and it's something that plenty of coaches have been able to accomplish over the years.

I wish Ray the best and I think we need to let this season play out before going too crazy, but if we continue to lose in embarrassing fashion and end the season with < 15 wins again, it's time.

 

[Jdog.sixpack]

I sat at the same table with Rick at a booster club meeting and I was very impressed. He is really a nice guy and I hope he is successful but he needs to start showing some progress.

 

[squirldawg]

Ray can't coach. Mic'd up confirmed it for me and it wasn't about Xs and Os. I didn't think he was passionate enough. Coach K or C or Pearl would have been going ballistic at that effort. In Ray's defense you could probably hear a pin drop, but I wanted to see more urgency and energy from him too. Horrible!

 

[paindonthurt_]

What patdog said.....

One bad hire and there are countless things he has done well. Calling him Scott Strempleton might be funny but its not accurate.

 

[Shmuley]

I'm fine with his continuing to make hires for girl sports and men's glorified club sports. Just keep his narrow *** away from any big 3 hire. Hell yeah, he's better than Lonnie Tinkle. But you cannot downplay how croomtastically he handled such an important hire as men's basketball by saying it was just one bad hire. It's the only hire he's made that is relevant. And it is pure fail.

Keenum, do NOT let it happen aGAIN.

 

[patdog]

He's still made one less terrible hire in a major sport than Jeremy Foley. Both of those hires were MUCH worse than hiring Rick Ray. Let's face it, football and baseball are the 2 most important sports at MSU.

 

[Shmuley]

We essentially agree, especially about the relative importance of baseball and football.