Dak turned down $175M over 5 years?

PineGroveBully

Redshirt
Nov 13, 2007
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The two games from last year that he is unfairly judged on are the games at NE in the lousy weather and the Philly game when he wasn’t able to throw the entire week prior to it but the cowboys have enough bad tape to keep him from getting the numbers he wants.

I really think he’s getting very bad advice. It’d be different if this wasn’t a salary cap league, but that extra $10M or so he’s wanting in year 5 can pay for a lot of help around him. He will never have more help than he had on his rookie contract. And with that help and him having the best season in cowboys history got him exactly 8-8. I never like to count another man’s money but his offers have been MORE than fair.
 

boatsandhoes

Junior
Sep 6, 2012
2,151
208
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Not sure how much stock I’d put in this. It’s the NFL, every team has incredible players. The line between .500 and over .500 is razor thin. Your margins as a team for allowable mistakes against a great team and an average team are fairly far apart. The cowboys as a team made a boatload of mistakes that lost them 4-5 games against good teams....in special teams and on defense.

I’m a cows fan. We were amazingly bipolar, and extremely inconsistent in every facet all year. That costs you against good competition. If we couldn’t have a penalty or turnover at a particular time....we did either or both.
 

MaroonBelle

Redshirt
Aug 23, 2016
186
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I'm just wondering if all you guys are going to continue to ignore that the team and dak's reps both came out and said this was a bunch of horseshit today.

Also those interceptions against playoff teams? Two were hail Mary's and one his Wr who disappears in big games practically handed the ball to a defensive back. Also his dumbas coach often took the ball out of his hands so he didn't have the opportunity to throw more touchdowns. See the game against Vikings when he was cooking and they gave the ball to Zeke so he could fail to score. On top of that the dumbas coach has been too enamored with first down runs. Go look up the stats on how many yards they gained on first down runs. The way they called games they continuously put Dak in bad situations because they put too much stock in the run game. He was one of the best in the league at converting long 3rd downs which he had to do way too often. They also had the 31st ranked special teams play in the league. Dak had to start from his own endzone or behind the twenty all the time. Way more than the playoff teams. Their kicker they finally let go because he missed all the time when Dak got him close to field goal range. Their defense is allergic to turnovers so Dak rarely gets help by them getting him a short field through turnovers. You know why they didn't get turnovers? The coaching staff refused to disguise coverages and every offense they played read them like a book. Go look at Amari's road/home game splits. Go look at the special teams and defensive stats of the playoff teams and tell me the reason they didn't get there is Dak's fault. Go look at Garrett's game plans when he turned into a tightass turtle on road games and against good competition. Dak's wr had the most drops in the league.

Dak improved his passing/efficiency/sacks/ability to read defenses, all of it last year. In every measurable statistic he improved and was one of the best in the league. If everybody on that team played as tough and worked as hard as he does they'd have won a superbowl by now.

Those stats against against .500 teams, he had a tough 2017 starting with the atlanta game where his coach fed him to the Falcons by giving him a turnstile for a LT and not fixing it the WHOLE DAMN GAME to the tune of 8 sacks in one game. He was shook. It was obvs and he saw ghosts for the rest of the year, his footwork went to **** and he ran into sacks. Then the Joneses in 2018 decided to start the year with wide receiver by committee. A committee of ****** wide receivers. Who the hell is afraid of cole Beasley? He's good at what he does but ain't nobody scared of that. And he was the best he had for a half a year. Go look at the tight window stats from that half of the year. He had the most tight window throws because his wrs got no separation. It also meant he took a **** ton of sacks early in the season. Some was 2017 hangover but most was him trying to hold the ball too long waiting on anybody to get open. Finally they got Amari, a #1 Wr, and it opened everything up. And Amari was really struggling in Oakland, but he gets to Dallas and all of a sudden he's the best wr? Or maybe Dak helped him as much as he helped Dak.

There is no context to those numbers from that article and there should always be context because football doesn't happen in a vacuum. If you watch film from his first year and watch film from last year and can't see the work he put in and the impressive improvements he's made then you're just lost.

And you know what? He's not done improving. He does it every year and all of us should know that better than any other fanbase. He's not at his ceiling. And now he gets McCarthy on top of that? And not to be insensitive but he lost his brother. We all know what he does when he grieves. He buries himself in football.

Also, I know there is good money to be made as DC QB but damn there is a lot of **** that goes with it too. There is no postion in all of football that is criticized/discussed/torn apart/used as click bait/dissected as much as his. TMZ watching your every move. Also Jerry Jones can't keep his yap shut and leaks false info to the press to pressure his players. Making them targets. How do you trust that guy? You have to be mentally strong af to do that job.

I am sorry for the novel. I couldn't take it anymore and been holding this in for months on twitter. This will be my last post on it. I threw it all up here. If you got to the end I appreciate you. I probably should have started this post with dear diary. To Mr. TOO LONG DIDN'T READ, I understand and salute you.
 

Go Budaw

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
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There is if you're taking $35MM in year 5 when you could have gotten maybe $50MM in year 5. If that 5th year isn't such a big deal, why don't the Cowboys just offer $140MM over 4 years?

Hey look, somebody gets it.
 

msstate7

Redshirt
Nov 27, 2008
10,388
10
38
Jeez... dak is clearly the GOAT, and his team mates and coach pull him down.

You realize you could do that type of nitpicking with every qb in the nfl, right?

ETA... in fairness, I'm a saints fan. I hope the cowboys give him 45 million a year bc it will hamstring them.
 
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Go Budaw

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Aug 22, 2012
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The two games from last year that he is unfairly judged on are the games at NE in the lousy weather and the Philly game when he wasn’t able to throw the entire week prior to it but the cowboys have enough bad tape to keep him from getting the numbers he wants.

I really think he’s getting very bad advice. It’d be different if this wasn’t a salary cap league, but that extra $10M or so he’s wanting in year 5 can pay for a lot of help around him. He will never have more help than he had on his rookie contract. And with that help and him having the best season in cowboys history got him exactly 8-8. I never like to count another man’s money but his offers have been MORE than fair.

Is he a better QB than Carson Wentz and Jared Goff, or not?

Every onjective measure says he’s better than both.

Why won’t Jerry just give him the same contract?
Like Patdog said, if 5 years $175 is a legit offer, then Jerry should have no problem at all with 4 years at $140. It’s way less commitment of resources for Dallas. Why won’t Jerry do it?
 

PineGroveBully

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Nov 13, 2007
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I didn’t say he wasn’t better than those guys, that doesn’t mean they were worth the contracts they got. Just because the Rams and Eagles overpaid doesn’t mean the Cowboys have to. My neighbors can have much nicer houses than me but that mean I can’t have a better lifestyle(ie winning)
 

Hugh's Burner Phone

All-American
Aug 3, 2017
5,500
6,533
113
I hope the best for Dak but he is one bad season away from riding the bench and then getting cut. He needs to take the money.

I don't understand turning it down. Is it ego? He's being offered the type money that is family tree altering. This isn't just enough for him to live comfortably. This is money that would allow several future generations to live comfortably. He could have his family set up well into the next century. It reminds me of the line in Shawshank redemption when Morgan Freeman is at his parole hearing:

"There's not a day goes by I don't feel regret. Not because I'm in here, or because you think I should. I look back on the way I was then, a young, stupid kid who committed that terrible crime.[FONT=&quot]I wanna talk to him. I wanna try to talk some sense to him -- tell him the way things are. But I can't. That kid's long gone and this old man is all that's left. I gotta live with that."[/FONT]
 

Go Budaw

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Aug 22, 2012
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I literally said “top 5” once in two posts. Trumpeting?

Maybe I should have said elite instead - however you want to put it. Point is when a team signs a QB to one of the highest contracts in the league, that QB has to perform as one of the top QBs over the life of that contract - he has to carry that team. He’s the highest paid, most important player on that team. Most of the time (obviously not all the time) if he is just average, that team’s going to miss the playoffs. On the other hand, a lot of teams make the playoffs with a good, young, low paid QB because they are surrounded by a great team, great defense, whatever. When that QB suddenly signs a monster contract the talent level of the rest of the team drops over the next couple of years. That QB has to carry the team or you don’t have a chance to make a run in the playoffs.

The whole point of my original comment was that Brady has at times had a team friendly contract. He hasn’t always milked them for every penny he was worth. I’d love to see Dak take a similar approach over his career. But you’ve got a good point - Dallas is not New England. Anything they save on Dak would likely get wasted elsewhere.

Where did I say Dak won’t be an elite / “top 5” QB?

You didn’t, but the implication seemed to be that he would jeopardize his chances of leading a contender because “only Top 5 QB’s and rookie contract QB’s win in the playoffs”. If he’s a Top 5 QB, it shouldn’t matter if he gets Top 5 money. And rest assured, whatever money he gets won’t be Top 5 for very long.

Anyway, thanks for the level-headed response. I’d like to see Dak go team-friendly too....when the timing and supporting cast warrant doing so. But his deal could not possibly ever be more team-friendly than it was his first 4 years when Jerry put jack **** around him to build a contender. So if I’m him, I’m telling Jerry exactly where to shove it and to figure out another way to get to contending status without royally 17ing the golden goose. There was a lot of time over the past 2 years to work this out for a much smaller financial burden for Dallas, but Jerry chose to be a *****, like he always does. He is now reaping the consequences.
 
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PineGroveBully

Redshirt
Nov 13, 2007
8,508
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I'm just wondering if all you guys are going to continue to ignore that the team and dak's reps both came out and said this was a bunch of horseshit today.

Also those interceptions against playoff teams? Two were hail Mary's and one his Wr who disappears in big games practically handed the ball to a defensive back. Also his dumbas coach often took the ball out of his hands so he didn't have the opportunity to throw more touchdowns. See the game against Vikings when he was cooking and they gave the ball to Zeke so he could fail to score. On top of that the dumbas coach has been too enamored with first down runs. Go look up the stats on how many yards they gained on first down runs. The way they called games they continuously put Dak in bad situations because they put too much stock in the run game. He was one of the best in the league at converting long 3rd downs which he had to do way too often. They also had the 31st ranked special teams play in the league. Dak had to start from his own endzone or behind the twenty all the time. Way more than the playoff teams. Their kicker they finally let go because he missed all the time when Dak got him close to field goal range. Their defense is allergic to turnovers so Dak rarely gets help by them getting him a short field through turnovers. You know why they didn't get turnovers? The coaching staff refused to disguise coverages and every offense they played read them like a book. Go look at Amari's road/home game splits. Go look at the special teams and defensive stats of the playoff teams and tell me the reason they didn't get there is Dak's fault. Go look at Garrett's game plans when he turned into a tightass turtle on road games and against good competition. Dak's wr had the most drops in the league.

Dak improved his passing/efficiency/sacks/ability to read defenses, all of it last year. In every measurable statistic he improved and was one of the best in the league. If everybody on that team played as tough and worked as hard as he does they'd have won a superbowl by now.

Those stats against against .500 teams, he had a tough 2017 starting with the atlanta game where his coach fed him to the Falcons by giving him a turnstile for a LT and not fixing it the WHOLE DAMN GAME to the tune of 8 sacks in one game. He was shook. It was obvs and he saw ghosts for the rest of the year, his footwork went to **** and he ran into sacks. Then the Joneses in 2018 decided to start the year with wide receiver by committee. A committee of ****** wide receivers. Who the hell is afraid of cole Beasley? He's good at what he does but ain't nobody scared of that. And he was the best he had for a half a year. Go look at the tight window stats from that half of the year. He had the most tight window throws because his wrs got no separation. It also meant he took a **** ton of sacks early in the season. Some was 2017 hangover but most was him trying to hold the ball too long waiting on anybody to get open. Finally they got Amari, a #1 Wr, and it opened everything up. And Amari was really struggling in Oakland, but he gets to Dallas and all of a sudden he's the best wr? Or maybe Dak helped him as much as he helped Dak.

There is no context to those numbers from that article and there should always be context because football doesn't happen in a vacuum. If you watch film from his first year and watch film from last year and can't see the work he put in and the impressive improvements he's made then you're just lost.

And you know what? He's not done improving. He does it every year and all of us should know that better than any other fanbase. He's not at his ceiling. And now he gets McCarthy on top of that? And not to be insensitive but he lost his brother. We all know what he does when he grieves. He buries himself in football.

Also, I know there is good money to be made as DC QB but damn there is a lot of **** that goes with it too. There is no postion in all of football that is criticized/discussed/torn apart/used as click bait/dissected as much as his. TMZ watching your every move. Also Jerry Jones can't keep his yap shut and leaks false info to the press to pressure his players. Making them targets. How do you trust that guy? You have to be mentally strong af to do that job.

I am sorry for the novel. I couldn't take it anymore and been holding this in for months on twitter. This will be my last post on it. I threw it all up here. If you got to the end I appreciate you. I probably should have started this post with dear diary. To Mr. TOO LONG DIDN'T READ, I understand and salute you.

You got a cliff notes version?
 

JungRebel

Redshirt
Aug 23, 2012
2,606
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The Wentz thing is understandable because of his injuries, he looks like a great player sometimes when healthy though that has not ever been the case for a full season, but if I'm trying to write contracts in the NFL the last 17ing organization I would pay attention to is the LA Rams. They just wrote two of the dumbest contracts in NFL history. I have no idea what Dak's contract should be worth. I would guess that, if all NFL QBS had to rewrite their contracts tomorrow Mahommes would get top dollar for sure and Dak should fall in the 8-12 range. Whoever does these things for a living should peek into the future as much as possible and try to match that number. If he wants to take the tag and do what Kirk Cousins did, and if he has an historic season showing improvement in all aspects of the game, he would likely be the highest paid player ever once he hits the open market. It's a lot to risk.

Regardless, Dak being paid less than Goff isnt a knock on Dak. It would be crazy to pay people more just because one of your competitors overpaid. It's a fine line though, because it's just as crazy to lose one of your best players and start from scratch at the most valuable spot.
 
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Go Budaw

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Aug 22, 2012
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And what if he gets an Alex Smith type injury playing on a franchise tag next year? Or a Joe Theisman break? $100+ million guaranteed sure beats $35M. I may not have made a 25 on the English section of the ACT but I do have an accounting degree. You’re quibbling over money his great grandkids will never be able to spend all of if they live to be 100.

Joe Theisman’s injury occurred in his 15th year of professional football.
Age absolutely had way more to do with it being career ending than the injury itself.

Alex Smith’s occurred in his 13th year. We’ll see how he fares.

Tua’s injury was worse than both, and he was still picked in the Top 5 less than 6 months after the fact. Dak is only 26. He’ll be fine.
 

Go Budaw

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Aug 22, 2012
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I didn’t say he wasn’t better than those guys, that doesn’t mean they were worth the contracts they got. Just because the Rams and Eagles overpaid doesn’t mean the Cowboys have to. My neighbors can have much nicer houses than me but that mean I can’t have a better lifestyle(ie winning)

So even if Goff and Wentz aren’t worth the contracts they got, and Dak is better, is he not worth the contracts they got? He’s not worth 4 years, $32-$36 million per year?

For better or worse, previous contracts set the market. If you don’t want to pay your QB more than you have to, lock him down early. Jerry already 17ed that up, so here we are. I’ve long been on record in saying Dak would sign anything in the ballpark of Wentz / Goff, and I still believe that. If he gets something in terms of duration (4 years, non negotiable), annual pay ($32-$36 million), and guaranteed money ($100 million+), he’ll sign it. Slide the scales inversely for total money / guaranteed money as required to appease both parties. We’ll see how long the dance goes on, but Dak is going to get what he wants.
 
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patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
60,730
32,076
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What if he doesn't get an Alex Smith injury? The odds are greatly in his favor that he won't. There's a reason you named the injury after a player. Because those injuries are rare. But if you really want to go down that path, what if he gets an Alex Smith type injury in year 5? If he takes the 5-year deal now, that's all he gets. But if he holds out and gets a 4-year deal and then another 4-year deal at $50MM per year with $100MM guaranteed, he gets the current deal plus another $100MM guaranteed.
 

msstate7

Redshirt
Nov 27, 2008
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What if he doesn't get an Alex Smith injury? The odds are greatly in his favor that he won't. There's a reason you named the injury after a player. Because those injuries are rare. But if you really want to go down that path, what if he gets an Alex Smith type injury in year 5? If he takes the 5-year deal now, that's all he gets. But if he holds out and gets a 4-year deal and then another 4-year deal at $50MM per year with $100MM guaranteed, he gets the current deal plus another $100MM guaranteed.

I'd be more worried about performance than injury. I don't see dak falling off much, but I didn't see Goff doing it either. Goff was better than dak in 2017 and 2018 (100+ passer rating in both years), and then bottom fell out last year, 86.5 passer rating. If dak falls to his 86.6 passer rating he put up in 2017, he'd be no where near what's been offered this offseason. I think is all moot though... he'll sign before July.
 

Go Budaw

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Aug 22, 2012
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I'd be more worried about performance than injury. I don't see dak falling off much, but I didn't see Goff doing it either. Goff was better than dak in 2017 and 2018 (100+ passer rating in both years), and then bottom fell out last year, 86.5 passer rating. If dak falls to his 86.6 passer rating he put up in 2017, he'd be no where near what's been offered this offseason. I think is all moot though... he'll sign before July.

Dak has been much more steady than Goff his entire career. Goff was absolutely awful as a rookie, as in 54% completion rate awful. Wasn’t surprising at all to see him drop off, in my opinion. And Dak has had a higher passer rating than Goff’s 2019 rating for every single year of his career. And he hasn’t had the pass catcher’s that Goff has / had, either.
 

PineGroveBully

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Nov 13, 2007
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I’m not saying he wouldn’t be fine, but is less than a 6% difference ($10M in year 5 out of a $175M contract) worth that risk?
 
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