40 min mark
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-pat-mcafee-show/id1134713453?mt=2&i=1000414376634
pod bean link for non iPhone users https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-48qpr-4331620
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-pat-mcafee-show/id1134713453?mt=2&i=1000414376634
pod bean link for non iPhone users https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-48qpr-4331620