Anybody catch where Leach said he's never had two guys playing at WR (or tighter receiver) with the ability and size of those two? He basically said in the past he'd have been forced to play both of them at DE, but here we have plenty of them so he can use them at WR. That actually gives me hope that this whole deal will work because this state produces a ton of that type of talent. I still don't know why we haven't tried them at LB.
Cumbest and Spivey.....
- Thread starter Russ Wheeler
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I hate to be a wet blanket here, but Sloppy Joe told a ton of people prior to his first game here, after seeing our WR core in camp, that they were plenty good enough to get the job done for the O. You don’t really know how good the DBs are in this league until you play a bunch of SEC teams in the same year.
I hope Leach is right. But I’ve heard this song and dance before.
I continue to be cautiously optimistic about our offense in Leach’s first year here. I don’t think we’ll see the full picture quite yet, but with a solid O line, an all-SEC RB in the backfield, and a solid senior QB to run it, there’s plenty of reason to be a little wooly. The only question mark is at WR, but it’s not as if there aren’t options there if a couple guys don’t pan out this year.
Now, on the flip side of that coin, I’m growing increasingly nervous about the defense in year one. During most of the offseason, we kinda all assumed that it would take a step forward with a more experienced line, but then we had a couple key guys transfer with another one opting out, and all of a sudden we’ve practically got a brand new first string compared to last year. Hopefully, some young guys will come through, but I was already nervous, and Arnett’s recent comments didn’t make me feel any better
Now, on the flip side of that coin, I’m growing increasingly nervous about the defense in year one. During most of the offseason, we kinda all assumed that it would take a step forward with a more experienced line, but then we had a couple key guys transfer with another one opting out, and all of a sudden we’ve practically got a brand new first string compared to last year. Hopefully, some young guys will come through, but I was already nervous, and Arnett’s recent comments didn’t make me feel any better
Yeah if only Leach had some experience in Coaching against Elite SEC DB's like Robert Bean and Fred Smoot***
The defensive side of the ball is going to be a Planet Fitness Judgment Free Zone for Arnett this year. 10 SEC games and probably the least talent / experience we’ve had across the board on defense since the early 2000’s. It could be ugly at times. I’m not too worried about the offense.
As long as we keep the physicality, I think this probably can work. I just don't want us to go soft like A&M under Sumlin, Ole Miss under Freeze, etc. Both of those teams would change your oil in the first few years of their tenure, but by the end all they were recruiting was WRs and they just seemed like they were playing 7 on 7 flag league.
Unfortunately, giving up 60 points and scoring 30 every time doesn't do much for my wool.
Normally when you think of pass happy type offenses you think of a softer team but Leach really seems to value toughness
This might be true. But I don’t see, from a talent standpoint, how Leach will be able to pull in many 4 star defensive players that Mullen & Moorhead were able to
I'm the exact opposite. I'm cautiously pessimistic in the short term. Texas Tech & Washington State averaged less than two passing TDs per game in their first seasons with Leach as head coach.
The following seasons though very well could be promising.
The following seasons though very well could be promising.
I don’t see why he couldn’t, provided that our defensive staff can develop kids for the NFL just like every other defensive staff we’ve had since the beginning of the Croom era. The problem we have now is Mullen’s last 2 recruiting classes being totally inadequate over the long term for defense, mixed in with attrition of key players from Moorhead’s two classes.
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I trust Mike Leach's offense more than one Joseph Croomhead.
It wasn't that the DBs were that good in the SEC (although they are), it's that the offense had no clue what they were doing on any given Saturday. Hell, they didn't know what they were doing from play to play. No identity. No philosophy.
Not to mention, we would consistently snap the ball under 10 seconds on playclock, giving DL free reign to pin their ears back and take off. We would run RPOs that developed so slowly that the defense was in the backfield by the time the qb got his eyes downfield. There's more, but those 2 things alone led to many holes we had to climb out of.
You can't have a wait-and-see-what-the-defense-does offense in the SEC. You've got to attack w purpose
It wasn't that the DBs were that good in the SEC (although they are), it's that the offense had no clue what they were doing on any given Saturday. Hell, they didn't know what they were doing from play to play. No identity. No philosophy.
Not to mention, we would consistently snap the ball under 10 seconds on playclock, giving DL free reign to pin their ears back and take off. We would run RPOs that developed so slowly that the defense was in the backfield by the time the qb got his eyes downfield. There's more, but those 2 things alone led to many holes we had to climb out of.
You can't have a wait-and-see-what-the-defense-does offense in the SEC. You've got to attack w purpose
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He's going to have to prove that he's not going to leave the defense out to dry, for sure. That's where this 'toughness' and physicality he preaches will need to see results. Everyone says the Air Raid is not a hurry up offense. It may not be, but quick scoring leads to the other team scoring, if nothing else because the defense gets tired because of playing more snaps. This is the downside of this era of offensive prowess.
Nobody in college football history ever left his defense out to dry more than the guy running things for MSU from 2004-2008, but we still were able to bring in very good players and field at least a decent defense every year until the end when we made a bad DC hire. The talent immediately available in MS is there to support at least a decent defense every year at MSU. The coaching is the only question mark.
We are two years into transitioning to a passing offense, so that should provide at least SOME optimism. It would be different if Leach was taking over in 2018 with Fitz, Aeris, a road grading line and Mullenized receivers.
Defensive players would rather play in a slow down muck it up game than a track meet. Just my opinion. In a track meet the defense is usually on the receiving end. In a pound it out game, they at least have a chance.
If Leach lets this thing turn into what we saw at Wazzou last year (similar to Sumlin's last A&M team), it's going to suck bad.
Even the Bama’s and LSU’s of the world don’t play the “slow down / muck it up” game anymore. That’s a bygone era of college football at this point. We aren’t going to be doing anything others aren’t in terms of pace of play.
A more valid argument might be that our D won’t face much of a power running game in practice against anyone but the scout team (occasionally), so that might make it harder to adjust to facing that style of play.
ETA: In 2019, WSU was 39th nationally in plays per game, and 73rd nationally in time of possession. Fairly middle of the pack in both. If their D sucked last year, it had nothing to do with always being on the field.
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This is true and the Washington State beat writer would agree with you. He's the only person who put MSU in his AP Top 25 ballot.
I'd provide a link but it's from a Clarion-Ledger article posted today.
I'd provide a link but it's from a Clarion-Ledger article posted today.
Just because they are passing does not mean they aren't playing conservatively, and they are still running plenty. This is a common misconception. There are markedly different concepts from the Leach offense to the LSU or Bama offense where they are simply throwing more to 5 star receivers using NFL concepts. Not really much innovation there. All superior talented teams will play as conservatively as possible to cut down on turnovers.
Some people say Leach's offense is similar to a run-based offense in that it's not hurry up but rather it's a lot of high percentage passes. Sounds like Mullen with less running to me. Mullen's offense was also very very simple, which is the same way people describe Leach's.
I hope it's true. If it is, we won't have a problem at all on defense.
This myth has been debunked so many times on this board that I’ve lost count. Leach absolutely does not leave his defense out to dry- in fact, his defenses are on the field fewer plays per game than most. Here is where they rank in FBS in terms of fewest plays defended per game:
2019- 47th in fewest plays defended, out of 130 teams
2018- 21st in fewest plays defended, out of
130 teams
2017- 21st in fewest plays defended, out of
130 teams
2016- 17th in fewest plays defended, out of
128 teams
If anything, the version of the air raid that Leach currently runs HELPS the defense from a pace perspective. There is no statistical basis to suggest that his offense leaves the defense vulnerable- that talking point is 100% based on perception.
It’s possible that while we are transitioning into the new offense, our defense could have to play more in the short term. But long term, there is zero reason to think that we will be on the field for 80+ plays per game like some people want to suggest.
Just wanted to point out that there is a slight difference between Sloppy Joe and Coach Leach when it comes to recognizing and developing WRs.
Leach had never been much of one to sugar coat things either.
Never said anything about how much those teams are passing / running now. It was more about pace of play. LSU has been Top 25 in the country in plays per game the past two seasons after being one of the most deliberate, plodding teams in the country for the decade prior under Miles. Ohio State is a top 10 plays-per-game team, with the near the same relative talent level as your Bama / LSU / Clemson types. Clemson is also in the upper third of plays per game (40th) with all their talent. Bama and UGA are still hanging on the back end of plays per game, but at least Bama has definitely diversified their offense much more in the past 5 years with more spread concepts. UGA looks pretty much the same as LSU did under Miles, and that very well may catch up with them if the talent starts to drop off even a little bit.
Thanks for doing that research. I hope it ends up being the reality. Not sure that one statistic tells the whole story, but it's enough to be hopeful.
Google James Whalen at Kentucky. i've said all along Cumbest is the next Whalen if he wants to be.
Y-Cross all night long