Covid 8.0 no name calling
- Thread starter GBRforLife1
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So your position is that over a hundred million Americans with hypertension are actively dying?
You never answered my question, just having a chronic disease does not mean you are actively dying. People live for decades with chronic disease, you are trying to pretend that if that box is checked they may as well be dead. That isn’t the case at all, unless you are saying that nearly half of Americans are actively on their death bed.
Their death rate per million people was about 20 people more that the US rate.....
That's actually what people like GBRforLife1 are proposing. All I'm saying is that he and his should be making the first sacrifice if that's what he wants.
The myth is that Sweden is doing nothing is disingenuous. They have banned public gatherings and encouraged social distancing, also 40% of their population lives alone.
https://time.com/5817412/sweden-coronavirus/
Sweden has a relatively high case fatality rate: as of April 8, 7.68% of the Swedes who have tested positive for COVID-19 have died of the virus. Neighboring countries, like Norway and Denmark, have case fatality rates of 1.46% and 3.85% respectively. (The U.S. case fatality rate is 3.21%.) While Sweden’s elevated case fatality rate could be a result of its low testing rates compared to its neighbors, experts say Sweden’s laissez-faire approach could also be to blame.
On March 11, the government cut down the size of permitted gatherings to 500, and only lowered that down to 50 on March 29.
The Swedish legislature will meet this week to discuss whether tougher measures restricting business and travel should be implemented.
Not a mistake, it did keep us to everyone needed a bed got one, plus proper cares.
The rest? Well, that's supposedly the commissions work.
Anybody with any human bit of a soul should demand better out of that commission, not finger pointing, not names, just answers, they need to get this right.
I'm curious as well....
I'm 46, and have high blood pressure, which I have lowered via medication. I'm carrying more weight than I should, but I don't really view myself having one foot in the grave just yet.
I wonder if he feels differently....
Probably. The standard on the board is to run a 4.4 and bench four fiddy?
Why in the world should we have to pay off your student loan. By saying you are for 'student loan forgiveness" that is EXACTLY what you're demanding. You made the choice to go to college. In MANY cases that is a bad decision for high school graduates especially if they're borrowing money to do it. I knew 40 years ago WAY too many people who borrowed the limit like there was no tomorrow and lived it up in college. Then they complained about their loan payments and how they needed higher paying jobs to make them. Going to college is NOT a right. Anything worth having is worth sacrificing for. IF you can't see that there's no hope for you and the rest of the whiners complaining about their loans.
There is no data yet to support any seasonality to this virus. It's warm and humid in New Orleans and Houston and COVID-19 is rockin and rolling down there.
IF anything, I think the fact that school is out in the summer is as big of factor as anything in the lower spread of viruses in the summer time. School kids are HUGE amplifiers of viruses. Then influenza mutates and we start the whole process all over again in the fall when they go back to school. Again, Corona viruses are more stable in the environment than Influenza virus due to their lipopolysaccharide capsule from whence it derives it's name.
Yah I mean I'll take whatever mitigation we can get but one of the first prominent cases was Tom Hanks and his wife in Australia during the summer.
There’s a difference between someone saying let nature sort it out and soliciting opinions prior to, and in order to dictate, treatment.
So, no, it’s not actually what anyone’s saying.
I don’t agree with either, just pointing out flawed thinking and another extremely slippery slope I can’t believe some people support going down.
Thoughtcrime, thankfully, isn’t a thing in the USA.
Because paying off a student loan is hard.
That's the best explanation I have heard to date, outside of "boomers are drawing social security so I wants my money NOW not 35 years from now". As if people drawing SS didn't spend their lives contributing to it from every paycheck they earned.
I could have easily gone to a school 3x as expensive as the one I went to. But I didn't because I couldn't afford it.
I could have easily borrowed at least twice, if not three times as much as I did going to the State school I went to. Instead, I worked during the school year, every break, and during summers.
I could have easily been a slave to my student loan debt upon graduation. Could have racked up six figures in debt for an undergrad degree like my brother chose to. If I had chosen to do so, it would have been my issue. Not someone else's.
Anyone who thinks myself, someone else, or our society should pay for their poor money decisions can kiss 100% of my ***. I worked it off to pay my bills. Get off yours and do the same. There is no law that said you had to go to college and rack up a pile of debt.
While we are at it, why are we having to bailout large corporations, etc for their poor money decisions?
Tiabbi
It’s hard to overstate how much money has vanished. S&P 500 companies overall spent the size of the recent bailout – $2 trillion – on buybacks just in the last three years!
Banks spent $155 billion on buybacks and dividends across a 12-month period in 2019-2020. As former FDIC chief Sheila Bair pointed out last month, “as a rule of thumb $1 of capital supports $16 of lending.” So, $155 billion in buybacks and dividends translates into roughly $2.4 trillion in lending that didn’t happen.
Most all of the sectors receiving aid through the new CARES Act programs moved huge amounts to shareholders in recent years. The big four airlines – Delta, United, American, and Southwest – spent $43.7 billion on buybacks just since 2012. If that sum sounds familiar, it’s because it equals almost exactly the size of the $50 billion bailout airlines are being given as part of the CARES Act relief package.
The two major federal financial rescues, in 2008-2009 and now, have become an important part of a cover story shifting attention from all this looting: the public has been trained to think companies have been crippled by investment losses, when the biggest drain has really come via a relentless program of intentional extractions.
Corporate officers treat their own companies like mob-owned restaurants or strip mines, to be systematically pillaged for value using buybacks as the main extraction tool. During this period corporations laid off masses of workers they could afford to keep, begged for bailouts and federal subsidies they didn’t need, and issued mountains of unnecessary debt, essentially to pay for accelerated shareholder distributions.
All this was done in service of a lunatic religion of “maximizing shareholder value.” “MSV” by now has been proven a moronic canard – even onetime shareholder icon Jack Welch said ten years ago it was “the dumbest idea in the world” – and it’s had the result of promoting a generation of corporate leaders who are skilled at firing people, hustling public subsidies, and borrowing money to fund stock awards for themselves, but apparently know jack about anything else.
During a Covid-19 crisis where we need corporations to innovate and deliver life-saving goods and services, this is suddenly a major problem. “We’re seeing, these people don’t have the slightest idea of how to run their own companies,” says University of Massachusetts economist William Lazonick, whose substantial research on the buyback issue has been a cornerstone of the movement toward reform.
Tiabbi
It’s hard to overstate how much money has vanished. S&P 500 companies overall spent the size of the recent bailout – $2 trillion – on buybacks just in the last three years!
Banks spent $155 billion on buybacks and dividends across a 12-month period in 2019-2020. As former FDIC chief Sheila Bair pointed out last month, “as a rule of thumb $1 of capital supports $16 of lending.” So, $155 billion in buybacks and dividends translates into roughly $2.4 trillion in lending that didn’t happen.
Most all of the sectors receiving aid through the new CARES Act programs moved huge amounts to shareholders in recent years. The big four airlines – Delta, United, American, and Southwest – spent $43.7 billion on buybacks just since 2012. If that sum sounds familiar, it’s because it equals almost exactly the size of the $50 billion bailout airlines are being given as part of the CARES Act relief package.
The two major federal financial rescues, in 2008-2009 and now, have become an important part of a cover story shifting attention from all this looting: the public has been trained to think companies have been crippled by investment losses, when the biggest drain has really come via a relentless program of intentional extractions.
Corporate officers treat their own companies like mob-owned restaurants or strip mines, to be systematically pillaged for value using buybacks as the main extraction tool. During this period corporations laid off masses of workers they could afford to keep, begged for bailouts and federal subsidies they didn’t need, and issued mountains of unnecessary debt, essentially to pay for accelerated shareholder distributions.
All this was done in service of a lunatic religion of “maximizing shareholder value.” “MSV” by now has been proven a moronic canard – even onetime shareholder icon Jack Welch said ten years ago it was “the dumbest idea in the world” – and it’s had the result of promoting a generation of corporate leaders who are skilled at firing people, hustling public subsidies, and borrowing money to fund stock awards for themselves, but apparently know jack about anything else.
During a Covid-19 crisis where we need corporations to innovate and deliver life-saving goods and services, this is suddenly a major problem. “We’re seeing, these people don’t have the slightest idea of how to run their own companies,” says University of Massachusetts economist William Lazonick, whose substantial research on the buyback issue has been a cornerstone of the movement toward reform.
Free market principles should apply to large corporations too.
Palihapitiya
During the interview, Palihapitiya said "zombie" companies run by billionaires that aren't performing well shouldn't be propped up during the public-health crisis. They should be exposed to the market forces at play, he added.
Nearly 10 million Americans filed for unemployment in a span of two weeks. Palihapitiya said average Americans filing for unemployment would bear the brunt of the economic crisis, not billionaires, their companies, or hedge funds.
"On Main Street today, people are getting wiped out. And right now, rich CEOs are not. Boards that have horrible governance are not. Hedge funds are not. People are," Palihapitiya said. "It's happening today to individual Americans, and what we've done is disproportionately prop up and protect poor-performing CEOs' companies and boards. And you have to wash these people out."
Palihapitiya
During the interview, Palihapitiya said "zombie" companies run by billionaires that aren't performing well shouldn't be propped up during the public-health crisis. They should be exposed to the market forces at play, he added.
Nearly 10 million Americans filed for unemployment in a span of two weeks. Palihapitiya said average Americans filing for unemployment would bear the brunt of the economic crisis, not billionaires, their companies, or hedge funds.
"On Main Street today, people are getting wiped out. And right now, rich CEOs are not. Boards that have horrible governance are not. Hedge funds are not. People are," Palihapitiya said. "It's happening today to individual Americans, and what we've done is disproportionately prop up and protect poor-performing CEOs' companies and boards. And you have to wash these people out."
OK, I'll clarify. GBR thinks that nature should just take its course. Therefore, if he catches this thing, and the last ventilator in that hospital comes down to him and someone else, he should be the one forgoing the ventilator.
That better?
it's quite literally the same thing you said before.
do you think doctors should not operate on criminals when they come into the ER, too?
very glad emotion/politics don't have a place with the people actually in charge of treating patients.
call his viewpoint selfish, crass, insensitive, inhumane, whatever. those are fair critiques.
really is fascinating how many individual reich policies people find so attractive in a time of crisis. no wonder we have so much history to learn from.
"do you think doctors should not operate on criminals when they come into the ER, too?"
Not at all what I'm saying, and you know that.
you're saying he, and anyone who holds the same opinions, should be deprioritized in a hospital treatment setting because of said opinions.
perfectly normal thing to say in the US of A.
again, so very glad the Hippocratic Oath doesn't include the phrase 'as long as their opinions align with your own' after 'do no harm'.
"you're saying he, and anyone who holds the same opinions, should be deprioritized in a hospital treatment setting because of said opinions."
No....the problem is that GBR seems to think we're all expendable....my dad and aunt that are immuno-compromised but otherwise healthy and active, and me in my mid-40s with high blood pressure, etc.....and yet if it were him or someone in his family that were in serious condition, he'd change his tune as to how expendable we are. That's the main point I'm trying to make. I even asked him if he considered either of them to have one foot in the grave (as he seems to think all C19 victims are), and he was too chickens*** to answer.
"perfectly normal thing to say in the US of A."
And saying that hundreds of thousands of people should die for the sake of the economy is a perfectly normal thing in the US of A?
"again, so very glad the Hippocratic Oath doesn't include the phrase 'as long as their opinions align with your own' after 'do no harm'."
I never said that doctors should make that decision. I said that GBR should take it upon himself and forgo the last ventilator, as it's just nature taking its course, which is what he believes. Big difference....but it doesn't matter, because we all know he'd never do that, as the expendability of humanity would stop once it reached him.
I'm done discussing this with you.....especially if you're going to keep defending him.
Just read on facebook this is all an overreaction, everyone should go back to work and everything return to normal. I did not realize that 18,000 people dying from a new disease is something we should not be concerned with! I am seeing some on here agree with that. I pray none of you thinking this is a total overreaction lose anyone close to yourselves! I have.. I have also got lucky and had a friend get sick and recover. But guess what? The doctors cannot tell her how much damage was done to her lungs but for sure she had some! Yep this is not something we should be concerned about at all and immediately return to normal!
not defending anyone. it wasn't clear you said he should take it upon himself.
I called his thinking selfish, crass, insensitive. one could argue the same of those who are scared of themselves or family members catching the virus just in case the worst happens at the expense of 17M+ losing their jobs. that's not 'the economy', that's real people, with real kids & families.
unemployment doesn't leave 80%+ without symptoms.
I don't fault anyone for their thinking. it's a weird time. I do think perspective is important for all, however.
Fair enough....and yes, I realize I'm going back on my word.
I guess I just don't get how likely loosing more people in 6 months of this (62,000 projected) than we did in 18 years of Vietnam isn't a concern....regardless of the economic situation. .
And, had we done nothing, which GBR seems to think should have been the case, it would be substantially more than the projected (with measures in place) 62,000.
Understand when it blew up. Late february is not hot.66 for a high, 48 low.Mardi Gras
But, the gathering amongst immune compromised people in high numbers, plus world wide, which really ups the numbers by adding in a foreign element previously not there.
But anyways, no, the spread started well within its comfort range.
Boing Boing, up goes the economy!
https://www.foxnews.com/us/boeing-p...-next-week-after-coronavirus-shutdown-reports
https://www.foxnews.com/us/boeing-p...-next-week-after-coronavirus-shutdown-reports
I knew this was a bad idea to read this thread when I can't sleep. I just want to ask you one thing. Why are you taking tweets from random people as "facts"?
This is a global pandemic, not a US pandemic. That is the only "fact" you really need to know.
So the problem here is politically based tweets aren't fact... it is agenda pushing. Nothing more and nothing less.
So with that said, please tell me why/how Democrats/Media are fear mongering with the following questions...
What does terrible outbreaks in the UK, Italy, Sweden and all other non United States countries have to do with a political push for a specific party?
Why exactly is someone with a credible background like Fauci (and/or other professional doctors and scientists) taken as a fear mongers?
Just because tents weren't filled in Washington doesn't mean the potential wasn't there. Is it really that hard to believe that they weren't filled, because social distancing is actually working? <- Why is that not taken as fact? I love analyzing things as much as the next guy/gal, but as I've said in multiple other threads regarding this Virus...
A "business man" Republican president is not going to allow trillions of dollars in revenue to just go out the window. That is "fact", and I don't need a tweet to prove that.
Both parties are preaching social distancing, so why are Red states allowing this too?
One more "Fact" for you... No one on a Nebraska Football message board is more knowledgeable about this Virus than Fauci. So sorry if I want to believe him over people hiding behind false screen names on a random sports message board.
Now I'm going to try and go back to sleep!
You really told us!!! No way. NU football fans are not more knowledgeable than Fauci? Guess you haven’t been around here very long.
I’m not seeing why you are going after me with all of these political talking points when I’m not really veering there. I think fear monger if is happening both sides of the aisle. The facts I like that are posted like samples of antibody testing in Chicago showing 30-50% have possibly been infected, but also shows this thing might not be as scary as we thought. Enjoy your slumber.
Thanks I was able to go back to sleep! The only reason I picked your post is because it started with "I like facts" and then proceeded to say a poster that is posting random tweets is the only guy that knows "facts". When in all actuality not a single one is right or wrong. That is the only "fact" out there. Anyway to keep this short, I just don't like it when people make one person's opinion "correct" and another's "incorrect"[/QUOTE]
That's cute. Which ones state facts that arent factual? Let's discuss it? Or are you just going to fraudulently make some broad generalization with nothing to support it?
This completely false. There were candidates for President that supported universal basic income ie pay from the govt for nothing. Self described socialists who want redistribution of wealth. Socialized health care which would likely lead to worse care and more deaths in a pandemic or other emergency. Social and environmental plans to take money money away from those who have worked for it and give it to those who havent. There have been multiple govt representatives talk about using the pandemic to change society more to the left. These types of lies and disinformation should not be tolerated.
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Imagine the audacity you must have to think for yourself and question authority. How dare you?
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