Confession: Watching the 1996 semi-Final...

[MdWIldcat55]

...and I find myself rooting for both teams. That Calipari-coached UMass team just would not quit. They looked beat 4-5 times, but they kept “refusing to lose.”

Of course glad the Cats matched their toughness and didn’t crack under the pressure.

Just a great game. Watch it at least once a year.

 

[akaukswoosh]

I haven't rewatched it since Cal came here.

 

[Mojocat_rivals48469]

As I just posted in the John Thompson thread, I knew that UMASS team was pretty good, but when they beat Georgetown by 24 in the elite eight game, I finally saw them for what they were. I think they only went 6 deep, and outside of Camby I don’t think they had anyone who’d be a 3 star today.

Edit: forgot about Dana Dingle and Donta Bright. Those 2 would surely have been higher than 3 stars. Still, individual talent on that team wasn’t very high. Definitely a “whole is greater than sum of parts” situation.....

 

[MdWIldcat55]

As I just posted in the John Thompson thread, I knew that UMASS team was pretty good, but when they beat Georgetown by 24 in the elite eight game, I finally saw them for what they were. I think they only went 6 deep, and outside of Camby I don’t think they had anyone who’d be a 3 star today.

Edit: forgot about Dana Dingle and Donta Bright. Those 2 would surely have been higher than 3 stars. Still, individual talent on that team wasn’t very high. Definitely a “whole is greater than sum of parts” situation.....

The odd thing re-watching that game is if Travieso has his normal game, UMass likely wins. Part of that was excellent defense designed by Pitino - he figured out that was what you could take away easier than Camby. But also, he got a couple cheap early fouls called on him - then a third - and was not himself.

That was a remarkable coaching job. At the time we all knew the clock was ticking on Pitino going to the NBA. I remember wishing Calipari could directly follow him -- he seemed like a younger, more passionate version.

 

[STL_Cat]

...and I find myself rooting for both teams.

wut

Impressive coaching job by young Cal that year. That umass team was fun to watch. As far as rooting for both teams .... lord no. I wish we’d have beaten them by 50

 

[MdWIldcat55]

wut

Impressive coaching job by young Cal that year. That umass team was fun to watch. As far as rooting for both teams .... lord no. I wish we’d have beaten them by 50

I was being a bit figurative, of course, and as I note I'm obviously very glad Kentucky won.

That day in 1996, yes, I wanted the Cats to win by 30 at least.

But watching it now, nearly a quarter century later, I find myself responding to the courage, grit and determination of UMass. What a coaching job to get that much out of that team. And yes, I felt a bit of sadness for the players on that valorous team as time ran out on them.

 

[weatherbird]

The odd thing re-watching that game is if Travieso has his normal game, UMass likely wins. Part of that was excellent defense designed by Pitino - he figured out that was what you could take away easier than Camby. But also, he got a couple cheap early fouls called on him - then a third - and was not himself.

That was a remarkable coaching job. At the time we all knew the clock was ticking on Pitino going to the NBA. I remember wishing Calipari could directly follow him -- he seemed like a younger, more passionate version.

And this is why in my opinion, the 2012 team would have beaten the 1996 team. The 2012 team was a reincarnation of that UMass team, except on steriods. The real key to beating UK in 1996 was handling the pressure, and if you could do that, you stood a chance. It is the reason in my opinion why Cal has seemingly always had Pitino's number. Cal knows how to handle the pressure, and his teams do well doing that.

And did you know, that UMass actually had a positive +/- against UK that year. So that game was far from a fluke. Beat UK by 10 early, then lost by 7 in the tournament. And by the way, nobody had a positive +/- against UK in 2012.

 

[SemperFiCat]

Was it 96 that UMass beat us at the beginning of the season?

 

[WildcatFan1982]

Was it 96 that UMass beat us at the beginning of the season?

Yep. Them and Mississippi State

 

[Slowwalker]

Where does everyone watch previous games now that UKbasketballlive is gone? Youtube?

 

[STL_Cat]

And this is why in my opinion, the 2012 team would have beaten the 1996 team. The 2012 team was a reincarnation of that UMass team, except on steriods. The real key to beating UK in 1996 was handling the pressure, and if you could do that, you stood a chance. It is the reason in my opinion why Cal has seemingly always had Pitino's number. Cal knows how to handle the pressure, and his teams do well doing that.

And did you know, that UMass actually had a positive +/- against UK that year. So that game was far from a fluke. Beat UK by 10 early, then lost by 7 in the tournament. And by the way, nobody had a positive +/- against UK in 2012.

Not to say that UMass wasn’t also improved in March compared to where they were when UK faced them the first time early in the season. In the first matchup, Pitino was still trying the “Delk at PG experiment.” That team took off and really became what they were when Pitino realized that didn’t work, he moved Mercer to 6th man, slid Delk over to 2G where he belonged, and put the offense in Anthony Epps hands.

 

[H00SIER-Cat]

Not to say that UMass wasn’t also improved in March compared to where they were when UK faced them the first time early in the season. In the first matchup, Pitino was still trying the “Delk at PG experiment.” That team took off and really became what they were when Pitino realized that didn’t work, he moved Mercer to 6th man, slid Delk over to 2G where he belonged, and put the offense in Anthony Epps hands.

If Jared Prickett doesn't drop the ball on the baseline 10 times, UK wins the first game.

 

[HagginHall1999]

It isn't hyperbole to say that Marcus Camby was of the most dominant college players of my lifetime. That guy was unreal in college.

I was far more scared of him than Tim Duncan- put it that way.

 

[HagginHall1999]

If Jared Prickett doesn't drop the ball on the baseline 10 times, UK wins the first game.

I've heard that so many times I think it has just grown to folklore. The bigs combined for 13 turnovers and McCarty had 6 of them. Game was decided at the foul line and Camby was even more dominant then. JMHO...can't pin it on Prickett.

 

[HagginHall1999]

And this is why in my opinion, the 2012 team would have beaten the 1996 team. The 2012 team was a reincarnation of that UMass team, except on steriods. The real key to beating UK in 1996 was handling the pressure, and if you could do that, you stood a chance. It is the reason in my opinion why Cal has seemingly always had Pitino's number. Cal knows how to handle the pressure, and his teams do well doing that.

And did you know, that UMass actually had a positive +/- against UK that year. So that game was far from a fluke. Beat UK by 10 early, then lost by 7 in the tournament. And by the way, nobody had a positive +/- against UK in 2012.

I don't think 2012 beats 1996. I mean you can point at UMass and say +/- all day long but 1996 UMass kicks the rear of any other team in 2012 not named Kentucky.

96 UK could at least throw multiple bodies at Camby. Honestly, 96 UMass would give 2012 UK a run for their money- Camby vs Davis would have been insane to see but at the time Camby was much better than AD offensively. They would have been a wash. Don't forget how experienced the 1996 team was....that was a veteran team top to bottom.

 

[weatherbird]

I don't think 2012 beats 1996. I mean you can point at UMass and say +/- all day long but 1996 UMass kicks the rear of any other team in 2012 not named Kentucky.

96 UK could at least throw multiple bodies at Camby. Honestly, 96 UMass would give 2012 UK a run for their money- Camby vs Davis would have been insane to see but at the time Camby was much better than AD offensively. They would have been a wash. Don't forget how experienced the 1996 team was....that was a veteran team top to bottom.

The +/- isn't why I think 2012 would win. The reason is that the UMass team and 2012 were built almost identically except 2012 was way more talented at every position minus Camby, and that is mostly a wash. I only mentioned the +/- to say that UMass beating us the first time wasn't a fluke. I understand the whole Epps vs Delk at point guard, and no doubt that made us better, but a much bigger factor in the second game was foul trouble for Traveso. We were fortunate that was the case and he never got going..

 

[Bigtyrone]

2015 UK would give either team a game and could beat either of them on any given day.

 

[H00SIER-Cat]

I've heard that so many times I think it has just grown to folklore. The bigs combined for 13 turnovers and McCarty had 6 of them. Game was decided at the foul line and Camby was even more dominant then. JMHO...can't pin it on Prickett.

You're probably right. 24 years later, all I remember from that game is Prickett's butter fingers. I probably didn't give UMass enough credit going into it.

None of that made me love Prickett any less.

 

[TBCat]

I remember saying at the time that the semi final game was probably the 2nd best college game of all time. Second only to UK/Duke. That UMass team was easily one of the 10 best college teams in 3 decades. They win the title against any team in the last 30 years except UK '96 and UK 2012. Having two teams of that caliber in the same season slugging it out will not happen again for a long time. That game was made even more special due to the fact that neither team played poorly. Normally when you get a match similar to that one team or the other has an off night. Not that night. Both UK and UMass were playing over their heads.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I think that UMass team could take down the majority of Cal's Kentucky teams. They were outstanding.

 

[HagginHall1999]

The +/- isn't why I think 2012 would win. The reason is that the UMass team and 2012 were built almost identically except 2012 was way more talented at every position minus Camby, and that is mostly a wash. I only mentioned the +/- to say that UMass beating us the first time wasn't a fluke. I understand the whole Epps vs Delk at point guard, and no doubt that made us better, but a much bigger factor in the second game was foul trouble for Traveso. We were fortunate that was the case and he never got going..

I see your logic, just cannot agree on 96 vs 2012. That 96 team was just silly good. Honestly I am near positive Pitino threw the SEC Tourney game and the conference as a whole was much better then vs 2012 as I remember it. Either way you look at it our two losses were to FF teams.

I am admittedly bias to 96 as I was 15 at the time and first title experience as a fan of UK.

 

[weatherbird]

I see your logic, just cannot agree on 96 vs 2012. That 96 team was just silly good. Honestly I am near positive Pitino threw the SEC Tourney game and the conference as a whole was much better then vs 2012 as I remember it. Either way you look at it our two losses were to FF teams.

I am admittedly bias to 96 as I was 15 at the time and first title experience as a fan of UK.

I mean I lost a bet in 1996, as I bet before the season began that they would go undefeated, and it took all of what 2-3 games for me to have to pay up. But they were honestly really close, and if not for UMass, they probably would have gone undefeated. While Pitino didn't intentionally throw the game, he did do things that made it "more" possible to lose, and they did just that. However, if we had entered that game undefeated, I don't think he would have done that, as he would have chased that undefeated season, and likely would have gotten it.

Having said all of that, I simply said I think the 2012 team would beat the 96 team more times than not. But if I had to choose a team to go through an entire schedule with, it would have been the 96 team. 2012 would have had the edge on starters, but the bench would not even be close. If I had to win a single game, I would go with 2012, but if I had to play an entire season, or even several games, I would pick 1996 simply for the bench.

 

[Monroe Claxton]

96 team was the best UK team I ever seen. Good teams had real fear to play us. I went to many games and the score would get to 35-6 real quick

 

[STL_Cat]

96 team was the best UK team I ever seen. Good teams had real fear to play us. I went to many games and the score would get to 35-6 real quick

Yep. Not just the best UK team of my lifetime (I’m 40), but the best college basketball team of my lifetime, period.

 

[Raptureme]

It isn't hyperbole to say that Marcus Camby was of the most dominant college players of my lifetime. That guy was unreal in college.

I was far more scared of him than Tim Duncan- put it that way.

Pitino totally took Tim Duncan out of the game field goal-wise.....only made 2 shots!

 

[HerrosHeroes]

I think that UMass team could take down the majority of Cal's Kentucky teams. They were outstanding.

Hmmm, they would have their hands full with ‘10, ‘11, ‘12, ‘14, ‘15, ‘17, ‘19 and ‘20

 

[VA/UK]

I saw that UMASS team lose in DC to George Washington with Bill and Chelsea Clinton sitting one section away (not to drop any names). They were tough as hell and showed what a great coach Cal is. It got me to thinking: that 1996 team was one of the greatest ever assembled - and the final two games were nail-biters! It’s hard to win that tournament! Consider the plight of the 1974 UCLA and the 1991 UNLV teams.

 

[NewHock15]

Donta Bright was a McDonalds all American and Camby was highly recruited but otherwise the roster was smart players that just fit the style. Very smart basketball team that played two great games against UK.

 

[specialkd24_rivals116121]

1996 is the best team, top to bottom, to ever play at Kentucky. I thought that in 1996, and I think that now. 2012 is fantastic and Davis is on another level, but 1996 was so much deeper and could just bring so many waves at you.

Let's look just at the starting lineups; 1996 is better at 4 of the 5 spots.

Epps > Teague
Delk > Lamb
Anderson > MKG
Walker > Jones
McCarty < Davis

And that isn't even accounting for Ron Mercer off the bench (not to mention Jeff Sheppard who would be FF MOP 2 years later).

 

[weatherbird]

1996 is the best team, top to bottom, to ever play at Kentucky. I thought that in 1996, and I think that now. 2012 is fantastic and Davis is on another level, but 1996 was so much deeper and could just bring so many waves at you.

Let's look just at the starting lineups; 1996 is better at 4 of the 5 spots.

Epps > Teague
Delk > Lamb
Anderson > MKG
Walker > Jones
McCarty < Davis

And that isn't even accounting for Ron Mercer off the bench (not to mention Jeff Sheppard who would be FF MOP 2 years later).

I dont really agree with that analysis of the starting lineup. The guards are probably more of a wash. While Epps is my favorite PG at UK in my lifetime, he was a smart and heady player, but Teague was much more athletic and while he disnt necessarily have a great Freshman year totally, he really played well in the tournament. Not sure Delk was better than the all time single season 3fg% leader at UK. And Lamb shot almost the same percentage both years, so it was no fluke. Anderson was really good in 96, and borderline great in 97, not sure I would put him above the #2 pick in the draft, immediately following the 2012 season. Now I'd agree Walker was better than Jones, but it isnt a landslide. And Davis was quite a bit better than Walter.

The bench was really really good in 96, but they were a downgrade from the starters, and they would have had to play against the starters of 2012 minus Miller, who started for 2 years prior to 2012.

 

[UKwizard]

Interesting things about UK 96 and 12:

both teams only lost 2 games
both teams beat every team they played
both avenged an early season loss in the NCAA tourney
both lost the SEC championship game which was eventually seen as a good thing (I wish 15 had in hindsight)
both absolutely crushed the SEC running the table
both teams 96 lost to made the final 4
12 faced 3 teams they had previously played in the tourney which is almost unheard of
both won emotionally draining final 4 games 96 against one of the best teams in the last 30 years and 12 against archrival Louisville

I think 96 wins due to experience and depth even with Davis being the best player on the floor. Plus 96 featured 2 players who were not the main threats but would go on the following year to be the Jordan and Pippen of college basketball that year.

 

[KyFaninNC]

That was a great game, I stayed on pins and needles all game. Both teams were just on another level. Oh, how I miss watching games like that, instead of sloppy, grind it out basketball.

 

[weatherbird]

Interesting things about UK 96 and 12:

both teams only lost 2 games
both teams beat every team they played
both avenged an early season loss in the NCAA tourney
both lost the SEC championship game which was eventually seen as a good thing (I wish 15 had in hindsight)
both absolutely crushed the SEC running the table
both teams 96 lost to made the final 4
12 faced 3 teams they had previously played in the tourney which is almost unheard of
both won emotionally draining final 4 games 96 against one of the best teams in the last 30 years and 12 against archrival Louisville

I think 96 wins due to experience and depth even with Davis being the best player on the floor. Plus 96 featured 2 players who were not the main threats but would go on the following year to be the Jordan and Pippen of college basketball that year.

They were almost identical seasons, early season loss to an out of conference foe, followed by a loss in the championship game of the SEC tournament, followed by a run to the championship. Just in terms of their seasons, the only real separation to speak of comes from their losses. 96 UK only 2 losses came to teams that made the Final Four, while neither team 12 UK lost to made the Final Four (although that is a bit deceiving since they had to beat one of those teams on the way to the Final Four). However, 2012 had a plus scoring margin against every team they played, while 96 had a negative scoring margin against UMass.

1996 gets credit for having 9 NBA players on the team, which is insane. However, only 4 actually played in the NBA the following season, 2 ended up playing less than a season in the NBA, and 1 was a little used 300# overweight freshman that took 2 more years to advance enough to play in the NBA, though he might be the longest tenured NBA player of the bunch. Still an amazing collection of talent, but far from having 9 NBA ready players on the team at one time.

I can see why anyone might argue one team being better than the other, and what makes it especially hard was that they did it in 2 very different ways. 96 pressed, tried to turn you over, and ran up and down the floor a lot. 2012 tended to be more half court lock down defense combined with a really good offense.

 

[tallkat70]

1996 easy over 2012. 2012 would have the best player on the court but the other four spots '96 would be clearly better and that's before you even get to the bench which is no comparison at all.

 

[natchezrule]

And this is why in my opinion, the 2012 team would have beaten the 1996 team. The 2012 team was a reincarnation of that UMass team, except on steriods. The real key to beating UK in 1996 was handling the pressure, and if you could do that, you stood a chance. It is the reason in my opinion why Cal has seemingly always had Pitino's number. Cal knows how to handle the pressure, and his teams do well doing that.

And did you know, that UMass actually had a positive +/- against UK that year. So that game was far from a fluke. Beat UK by 10 early, then lost by 7 in the tournament. And by the way, nobody had a positive +/- against UK in 2012.

96 team wins by 12

 

[natchezrule]

96 team was the best UK team I ever seen. Good teams had real fear to play us. I went to many games and the score would get to 35-6 real quick

I miss those runs

 

[ruppcat]

I remember saying at the time that the semi final game was probably the 2nd best college game of all time. Second only to UK/Duke. That UMass team was easily one of the 10 best college teams in 3 decades. They win the title against any team in the last 30 years except UK '96 and UK 2012. Having two teams of that caliber in the same season slugging it out will not happen again for a long time. That game was made even more special due to the fact that neither team played poorly. Normally when you get a match similar to that one team or the other has an off night. Not that night. Both UK and UMass were playing over their heads.

IMHO that game, like it often is, was the title gae.

 

[weatherbird]

96 team wins by 12

So you think the 1996 UMass team is 12-15 points better than 2012 UK?? Seems odd.

 

[specialkd24_rivals116121]

Not sure Delk was better than the all time single season 3fg% leader at UK

I'll stop reading after this sentence. And I mean this with all respect ... Maybe the single-most ridiculous sports take ever on here ... and that is saying something.

Lamb shot great in 2012. Tony Delk is the No. 5 scorer in UK history. He did so much more than shoot 3-pointers. Enough said.

 

[specialkd24_rivals116121]

I dont really agree with that analysis of the starting lineup. The guards are probably more of a wash. While Epps is my favorite PG at UK in my lifetime, he was a smart and heady player, but Teague was much more athletic and while he disnt necessarily have a great Freshman year totally, he really played well in the tournament. Not sure Delk was better than the all time single season 3fg% leader at UK. And Lamb shot almost the same percentage both years, so it was no fluke. Anderson was really good in 96, and borderline great in 97, not sure I would put him above the #2 pick in the draft, immediately following the 2012 season. Now I'd agree Walker was better than Jones, but it isnt a landslide. And Davis was quite a bit better than Walter.

The bench was really really good in 96, but they were a downgrade from the starters, and they would have had to play against the starters of 2012 minus Miller, who started for 2 years prior to 2012.

Let's also do the bench:

Mercer > Miller (I'll admit this is close as Fr. vs. Sr. - but Mercer scored 20 as a freshman in National Title game)
Sheppard > Wiltjer
Pope > Vargas
Turner > Polson
Edwards > Beckham

I think another fun activity would be to rank the players (regardless of team by talent). Davis would be first, and after that I think there would be 4-5 1996 players before the next 2012 player is listed.

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just wondering how old you are. I'm 42, so I was 18 in 1996. So I have a great memory of both teams. Maybe you are younger and maybe it recency bias.