Conference expansion

[SteelCurtain74]

While looking around the interwebs today, I came across this article from a Texas writer concerning Big 12 expansion and potential targets.

https://www.burntorangenation.com/2021/7/5/22563956/possible-big-xii-expansion-members

In short, according to the writer the first targets for the Big 12 should be Arkansas and Missouri. While I don't believe either would leave, I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep if Missouri decided to go.

With the expansion of the college playoffs in football, what's the likelihood the SEC would expand to 16?

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

It isn’t going to happen because the SEC television package pays significantly more per school than the Big12 package, so it would be a revenue negative move. That isn’t even considering the BS of dealing with Texas.

 

[Choctaw Dawg]

Nobody is going to leave this conference, even as much as we all want Missouri to leave.

Big 12 is going to have to tell Texas that they want to jump in on a Big 12 Network when the Longhorn Network deal expires with ESPN. Considering it didn't work before, I doubt it will work again. Big 12 has little leg for expansion until they get their own network deal

 

[IPMdawg]

They’ll only be able elevate some non-Power 5 schools like Memphis and Houston. No Power 5 school wants in that mess.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

I seriously doubt that the Pigs are going anywhere

Mizzou, is optional, but I sort of doubt it.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

This article seems to forget

that many of these teams left, because Texas ...Tea Sippers were, a bunch of overbearing Bitches.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

The next expansion will be the merger of the Pac-12 and Big 12 (i.e. Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and whoever else Texas wants to bring, maybe Kansas). And this will be around the time the Longhorn Network contracts talks start.

After that, Notre Dame will then be on the clock (and the take).

 

[DAWG61]

I really don't get the continued hate for Missouri. They've been a good add as has aTm and their fans love being in the SEC over the Big 12. State of Missouri has the St. Louis Cardinals, Kansas City Chiefs, Kansas City Royals, decent BBQ, the Ozarks and St. Louis is the home of Budweiser. What's the problem here?

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Notre Dame is pretty much a member of the ACC. They have a little freedom in football.

 

[kb549]

I really don't get the continued hate for Missouri. They've been a good add as has aTm and their fans love being in the SEC over the Big 12. State of Missouri has the St. Louis Cardinals, Kansas City Chiefs, Kansas City Royals, decent BBQ, the Ozarks and St. Louis is the home of Budweiser. What's the problem here?

I knew this was you before I scrolled over to see who posted it. Missouri doesn’t fit. I went to the first game we played against them at their place. What a damn dead non-SEC like game atmosphere. Yes, it was on a Thursday, but everything about that trip made me sick. I never care to go there again.

aTm are a damn weird bunch. But at least they care about sports.

maybe Ole Miss will go to the Big 12. I don’t care if we ever play them in anything again.

 

[Maroonthirteen]

I really don't get the continued hate for Missouri. They've been a good add as has aTm and their fans love being in the SEC over the Big 12. State of Missouri has the St. Louis Cardinals, Kansas City Chiefs, Kansas City Royals, decent BBQ, the Ozarks and St. Louis is the home of Budweiser. ?

All that is why Missouri is mostly a pro-sports state. Also why adding them did nothing to add tv viewers.

as for the hate, they are not an interesting matchup for charter members. Boring game.

any conference looking to expand, needs forget geography or footprint and expand based on creating interesting matchups.

Alabama or any charter member v Missouri ....zzzzzzzzz

 

[SteelCurtain74]

I really don't get the continued hate for Missouri. They've been a good add as has aTm and their fans love being in the SEC over the Big 12. State of Missouri has the St. Louis Cardinals, Kansas City Chiefs, Kansas City Royals, decent BBQ, the Ozarks and St. Louis is the home of Budweiser. What's the problem here?

Other than tv markets they add nothing to the conference. They have yet to have a conference winning record in baseball, only 2 years with a winning conference record in basketball and with the exception of 2 good seasons in football, they are 2 games under .500 in conference football games.

Most every other team in the conference can point to one sport where they compete for conference championships and national championships. I'm not sure what Missouri is supposed to be good at.

 

[patdog]

Lot of delusion in that article and in the comments. I think the endgame for the Big 12 is a merger with the PAC 12 when the tv contracts expire. It’s both conferences only hope to remain anywhere close to the SEC, Big 10 & ACC.

 

[DAWG61]

First game we played them in Columbia was on November 5th, 2015 right smack dab in the middle of racial riots and tension on that campus and their football program having a dumpster fire spiraling into their coach quitting. Not surprised you had a miserable time. That's just awful timing sorry that happened as I'm sure those tickets and hotel room were bought months in advance.

 

[bulldognation]

Southern Miss to the Big 12!

 

[Russ Wheeler]

I'm indifferent in regards to Missouri. They don't bother me, and we generally beat them. We could do worse and better.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Southern Miss to the Big 12!

Only after all the big players leave for the PAC-12. And I bet they still wouldn't get in.

 

[DAWG61]

[/B]
All that is why Missouri is mostly a pro-sports state. Also why adding them did nothing to add tv viewers.

as for the hate, they are not an interesting matchup for charter members. Boring game.

any conference looking to expand, needs forget geography or footprint and expand based on creating interesting matchups.

Alabama or any charter member v Missouri ....zzzzzzzzz

This isn't how the cable contracts with ESPN and the SEC Network work. How many people you think watch a game isn't how we/MSU keep getting paid from the state of Missouri's cable subscribers. Becky the housewife in St. Louis watching the Food Network still gives us/MSU money every single month because her cable package she pays for has the SEC Network included in it.

 

[Apoplectic_Objurgator]

If Missouri leaves it’ll be For the big ten then the sec will go for either nc state or va tech

 

[HumpDawgy]

Unless Florida State or Clemson wanted into the SEC, I am for keeping Mizzou. They don't bother me that much other than being located on the west side, but playing in the east division because Bammer and Auburn don't want to split up.

I wouldn't want to go to 16 teams. We are already at a point where we rarely play some of the east teams. With 16 teams, its almost like having 2 separate conferences within a conference. It works for sports with many games on the schedule, but not football.

 

[Bulldogg31]

What’s cable?

 

[Maroonthirteen]

This isn't how the cable contracts with ESPN and the SEC Network work. How many people you think watch a game isn't how we/MSU keep getting paid from the state of Missouri's cable subscribers. Becky the housewife in St. Louis watching the Food Network still gives us/MSU money every single month because her cable package she pays for has the SEC Network included in it.

I'm sure youre right in that the contract was negotiated on based on subscriber information. However that may prove to be a mistake when espn figures out the ratings for a Missouri game.

Also, the SE US isn't the most populated area of the US. The SEC can demand big money from espn because of national championships. TV and these schools will learn, their product will suffer if they continue to add uninteresting games to Tv.

 

[o_ThreeDawgNight]

Most every other team in the conference can point to one sport where they compete for conference championships and national championships.

Looking at you, TSUN.

 

[Apoplectic_Objurgator]

Unless Florida State or Clemson wanted into the SEC, I am for keeping Mizzou. They don't bother me that much other than being located on the west side, but playing in the east division because Bammer and Auburn don't want to split up.

I wouldn't want to go to 16 teams. We are already at a point where we rarely play some of the east teams. With 16 teams, its almost like having 2 separate conferences within a conference. It works for sports with many games on the schedule, but not football.

FSU and Clemson are off the table. The sec already has a footprint in those states. New teams would have to come from new states for more tv money

 

[Bill Shankly]

It's not about "fit" or quality of programs. It's all driven by TV money. That's why we took Missouri and why we will never take Clemson, FSU, either of the Oklahoma schools, or another school from Texas. If we expand again it it will be into North Carolina and Virginia. The new school/s would have to bring in enough TV money so that the existing SEC schools cut of the pie is worth more even with have to cut it into more slices. That last sentence is from a sitting SEC AD's mouth.

 

[johnson86-1]

FSU and Clemson are off the table. The sec already has a footprint in those states. New teams would have to come from new states for more tv money

I would expect FSU to get blocked because of UF not wanting them, but surely Florida is populous enough that if there was mutual interest and the TV formula wouldn't generate enough extra money for it to make sense, ESPN would be willing to make an adjustment. Unless they just already regret the deal and don't want to make it any bigger than it is.

 

[Maroonthirteen]

If the sec has an opportunity to add Texas, they better do it way before adding Virginia or similar.

I believe it was OOB show. A Cowboys expert, guest, made the comment that adding aTM didn't grab the Dallas market as expected. The UofTexas and B12 still gets the majority of viewers in Dallas.

 

[Apoplectic_Objurgator]

I would expect FSU to get blocked because of UF not wanting them, but surely Florida is populous enough that if there was mutual interest and the TV formula wouldn't generate enough extra money for it to make sense, ESPN would be willing to make an adjustment. Unless they just already regret the deal and don't want to make it any bigger than it is.

That’s not how it works - it’s tv market. A second school in a state doesn’t bring any more tv money to
The table.

 

[DAWG61]

Just how bad do you think Missouri football tv ratings are that ESPN would want to negotiate a worse deal over its number 1 product? That state has twice as many people as MS and two of the top 35 largest TV markets in the entire country.

 

[Go Budaw]

Other than tv markets they add nothing to the conference. They have yet to have a conference winning record in baseball, only 2 years with a winning conference record in basketball and with the exception of 2 good seasons in football, they are 2 games under .500 in conference football games.

Most every other team in the conference can point to one sport where they compete for conference championships and national championships. I'm not sure what Missouri is supposed to be good at.

Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

It’s ALL about TV markets when it comes to expansion...nothing else. Adding viewers in two Top 50 markets (St. Louis, KC) was huge for the SEC, regardless of what you think of the school itself.

SEC will likely look to North Carolina, Virginia, or Oklahoma for any future expansion...with Oklahoma / Oklahoma State being far less likely than, say, an NC State or Virginia Tech.

 

[paindonthurt_]

Yeah wasn’t that during the “hunger strike” put on by the black young man who’s family was multi millionaires? Irony?

 

[Russ Wheeler]

That’s not how it works - it’s tv market. A second school in a state doesn’t bring any more tv money to
The table.

Looking at TV eyeballs in the particular state, is a 10-year old model. There will be changes the next round. I suspect that the next model will prioritize QUALITY of games, that would draw NATIONAL eyes. Florida vs. Florida State would do that better than Florida vs. Virginia Tech. Nowadays you've got streaming and all these other things, not just cable networks, that are driving the economics.

So what I'm saying is, never say never, these things are never as rigid as you think. All the older baby boomers are the ones who love 'cable', the younger generations are streaming almost exclusively.

 

[dog12]

While looking around the interwebs today, I came across this article from a Texas writer concerning Big 12 expansion and potential targets.

https://www.burntorangenation.com/2021/7/5/22563956/possible-big-xii-expansion-members

In short, according to the writer the first targets for the Big 12 should be Arkansas and Missouri. While I don't believe either would leave, I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep if Missouri decided to go.

With the expansion of the college playoffs in football, what's the likelihood the SEC would expand to 16?

Every year, I keep waiting for the Big 12 to fall apart and be absorbed by the other conferences. Hasn't happened yet, but it will happen eventually. (my opinion)

That being said . . . I'd be surprised if Arkansas left the SEC for the Big 12. In my opinion, their fanbase and mindset fit in really well with the SEC.

Missouri, on the other hand, might leave. They haven't fit in very well in the SEC . . . at least that's my biased opinion. Things have happened on the Missouri campus that some might call crazy, so Missouri leaving the SEC would just add another layer to that.

I certainly don't care if Missouri leaves the SEC. In the long run, Missouri leaving might be better for the SEC. However, I don't think Missouri will leave. Money talks.

Concerning expansion of the SEC to 16 schools, isn't that the future goal of the SEC? I would like to see it happen. Also, when the SEC expands to 16 schools, it should get rid of divisions and figure out an appropriate schedule for each individual sport. (It's past time to get rid of all divisions in all SEC sports.)

If Missouri does NOT leave the SEC, then we could add: 1) Texas Christian University OR University of Houston; AND 2) North Carolina State (whom would be ripe for the picking), University of Virginia, Virginia Tech University OR West Virginia University (they would leave the Big 12 for the SEC in a heartbeat).

If Missouri DOES leave the SEC, then we could add: 1) both Oklahoma State University AND University of Oklahoma; AND 2) one from the schools #2 listed above.

University of Virginia is only 2 hours from my house, so I would love to see them join the SEC. I doubt that would ever happen though . . . academics, history, long-time affiliation with ACC, etc.

NC State might leave the ACC for the SEC, because many of their fans were upset with the ACC office for not fighting for them when they were kicked out of the College World Series.

Virginia Tech and West Virginia would both jump at the chance to join the SEC, and their fanbases and mindsets would fit in well with the SEC. Same for TCU and Houston (my opinion)

 

[Dawgg]

Southern Miss to the Big 12!

If Southern Miss could brand themselves as being the local team for New Orleans AND the Gulf Coast, they would be a lot more attractive to prospective conferences.

 

[Chesusdog]

I'm just jealous those clowns are in the East.

 

[johnson86-1]

That’s not how it works - it’s tv market. A second school in a state doesn’t bring any more tv money to
The table.

Did you read what I posted? Yes, it's a formula for cable/satellite/other providers and ESPN, but the formula is not reality. There are 21 million people in Florida. There are six million people in Missouri. If the formula ESPN and providers are using does not show adding FSU as being as valuable as adding Missouri, or at least reasonably close to it, then they would probably be willing to at least entertain an adjustment to make it more closely reflect reality. They don't want to incentivize ESPN too strongly to game the formula rather than bring value. And ESPN doesn't want conference partners entering into long term, hard to unwind conference expansions to game a formula that might not be used in 5 years.

 

[GhostOfJackie]

The problem is that Missouri radiates ***** *** ***** everywhere they step. They don't fit socially, politically, geographically, or professionally.

Nobody will be upset if they jump ship and discontinue the watering down of our conference.

 

[GhostOfJackie]

If Southern Miss could brand themselves as being the local team for New Orleans AND the Gulf Coast, they would be a lot more attractive to prospective conferences.

I'll give you $100 if you can give me just one reason (other than Brett Favre) that Southern Miss would be attractive to a P5 Conference.

 

[goodknight]

Arkansas, really. Guess they forgot why Arkansas left in the first place along with others. UR rules the roost in that conference and money is not split evenly. Yea they’ll go back for an unequal share and take a significant pay cut.

 

[Go Budaw]

I would expect FSU to get blocked because of UF not wanting them, but surely Florida is populous enough that if there was mutual interest and the TV formula wouldn't generate enough extra money for it to make sense, ESPN would be willing to make an adjustment. Unless they just already regret the deal and don't want to make it any bigger than it is.

I don’t think the TV formula would generate any additional revenue. Certainly not enough to where each of 15 SEC schools would get a bigger slice of pie than they would have now.