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Buckaineer

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Buckaineer

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LowFatMilk said:
Where's the 'comprehensive' part referred to in the thread title ?
Click to expand...

These are the comprehensive improvements on the table:
"Bowlsby also said that football championship game, possible expansion and TV network issues are "almost inseparable" in Big 12 discussions."
 
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LowFatMilk

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Buckaineer said:
These are the comprehensive improvements on the table:
"Bowlsby also said that football championship game, possible expansion and TV network issues are "almost inseparable" in Big 12 discussions."
Click to expand...

...oh, you left 'on the table' out in the opening post.

...makes a diff.
 
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LowFatMilk

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Comprehensive speculation based on tweets and articles that read more like advertisements.

...trust me, I got it before my first reply.
 
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LSUTigersRoar

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Big 12 should not add teams like UC, or USF,BYU,UCF or any other why water down this conference. Texas is right about the adding teams that add no value. I question the Big 12 why fight so long for the ruling to hold a championship game with only ten, only to add teams like this? TV network for the Big 12 at 10 provides all teams plays and makes much more sense than watering down the Big 12. Texas if they make more money the LHN will be the big 12 network I do not see this helping Big 12 adding teams like the ones being talked about. I hope the Big 12 see's they have a good thing here. If it is not broke do not fix it, come big 12 wise up the teams you are thinking about brings no value that is how view this
 
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Buckaineer

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LSUTigersRoar said:
Big 12 should not add teams like UC, or USF,BYU,UCF or any other why water down this conference. Texas is right about the adding teams that add no value. I question the Big 12 why fight so long for the ruling to hold a championship game with only ten, only to add teams like this? TV network for the Big 12 at 10 provides all teams plays and makes much more sense than watering down the Big 12. Texas if they make more money the LHN will be the big 12 network I do not see this helping Big 12 adding teams like the ones being talked about. I hope the Big 12 see's they have a good thing here. If it is not broke do not fix it, come big 12 wise up the teams you are thinking about brings no value that is how view this
Click to expand...

Translation: We in the SEC don't want the BIG 12 to be strengthened or to be more competitive. We were hoping the conference would break up so we could try and get some teams out of it.

The BIG 12 is a strong conference with strong brands. Making proactive improvements like other conferences not only makes sense its the best path forward for the conference and will ensure the long term success of the BIG 12.

But you know, I don't really think the SEC needed an SEC network. After all most of the country didn't want or care about it and it takes SEC games off the air, where someone might actually watch some of those games. And not playing a 9 game schedule keeps the SEC schools from seeing how good they really are, by missing out on nearly half the teams in the conference every year.
 
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Buckaineer

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Some research in:

PHOENIX — As the Big 12 inches closer to decisions about its future, most of the data is in.

Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby said Monday that data compiled by consultants — up to 40,000 simulations from Navigate Research — indicated the best model for placing a team in the College Football Playoff is a 12-team conference playing eight league games plus a championship game.

“That was the best outcome,” Bowlsby told reporters at the Arizona Biltmore — but there’s no telling what the actual outcome of the Big 12’s ongoing deliberations will be.

http://www.krem.com/news/nation-now...rd-deciding-on-expansion-title-game/165369825
 
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Buckaineer

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from the above article:
BOWLSBY:“Once we get the diagnostics done and the data analysis done, we need to get down the path and make some decisions,” he said. “There’s no sense in dragging it out once we know all the pieces to the puzzle.”
 
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Buckaineer

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From ESPN:

Big 12 expansion linked to greater CFP chances, research suggests
7:31 PM ET

  • Jake TrotterESPN Staff Writer
PHOENIX -- The Big 12's data research shows that the league will have to make a change to its current format to maximize its chances of making the College Football Playoff.

That includes expanding back to 12 teams......

http://espn.go.com/college-football...rch-shows-expansion-necessary-boost-cfp-hopes
 
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LSUTigersRoar

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No that is not what I am saying as a SEC fan. Answer me this why would The Big 12 battle so hard for a championship with only ten teams? Also, do these teams really add value? I thought The Big 12 would stand pat, due to they got what they wanted from the NCAA. If The Big 12 was going to 12 than why all than why did they fight for that ruling? No, I want the Big 12 to be good just can not see how it will be with those teams being added..
 
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Buckaineer

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LSUTigersRoar said:
No that is not what I am saying as a SEC fan. Answer me this why would The Big 12 battle so hard for a championship with only ten teams? Also, do these teams really add value? I thought The Big 12 would stand pat, due to they got what they wanted from the NCAA. If The Big 12 was going to 12 than why all than why did they fight for that ruling? No, I want the Big 12 to be good just can not see how it will be with those teams being added..
Click to expand...

The BIG 12 wanted options. They did not want the proposal that went through, they wanted to be able to have conferences determine how they select their champion. If you could have a divisionless championship, expansion meant divisions weren't necessary in a larger conference either. In the BIG 12 divisions are an issue--all the schools really like meeting one another every year.

The schools do add value and that is why the BIG 12 is considering them. Some of the schools have had better standing and sos than SEC teams so you might question how some of your own schools add value or add to the competitive nature of the conference.
 
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Mountaineer Steve

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Buckaineer said:
These are the comprehensive improvements on the table:
"Bowlsby also said that football championship game, possible expansion and TV network issues are "almost inseparable" in Big 12 discussions."
Click to expand...
can't argue there, there is no expansion without a big 12 Network. There may not be CCG without expansion
 
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Mountaineer Steve

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Buckaineer said:
The BIG 12 wanted options. They did not want the proposal that went through, they wanted to be able to have conferences determine how they select their champion. If you could have a divisionless championship, expansion meant divisions weren't necessary in a larger conference either. In the BIG 12 divisions are an issue--all the schools really like meeting one another every year.

The schools do add value and that is why the BIG 12 is considering them. Some of the schools have had better standing and sos than SEC teams so you might question how some of your own schools add value or add to the competitive nature of the conference.
Click to expand...
I think we will know more once all the numbers from research is in.
Those $ need to be large enough to keep Texas whole while at the same time generate enough additional money to make expansion worth while
 
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Buckaineer

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Mountaineer Steve said:
I think we will know more once all the numbers from research is in.
Those $ need to be large enough to keep Texas whole while at the same time generate enough additional money to make expansion worth while
Click to expand...

Boren has already discussed some of the numbers. The conference already has a good handle on that and at least some have some of the data if not all. It will come down to will the schools all agree to expand. The alternative is very telling about future plans.
 
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LowFatMilk

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Buckaineer said:
from the above article:
BOWLSBY:“Once we get the diagnostics done and the data analysis done, we need to get down the path and make some decisions,” he said. “There’s no sense in dragging it out once we know all the pieces to the puzzle.”
Click to expand...

In your world that means expansion and a championship game... ...to others it simply means they'll consider expansion or choose to stay with the status quo.

You make me laugh though... ...thinking expressing your opinion more often makes it any more valuable than the person who doesn't need to flood the forum like it was an infomercial.
 
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Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals

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LowFatMilk said:
In your world that means expansion and a championship game... ...to others it simply means they'll consider expansion or choose to stay with the status quo.

You make me laugh though... ...thinking expressing your opinion more often makes it any more valuable than the person who doesn't need to flood the forum like it was an infomercial.
Click to expand...

Let's look at the record: The Big 12 got a seat at the table for the 2015 national playoffs with 10 league members and no conference title game.

The Big 10, because Iowa didn't play Ohio State, Michigan or Michigan State during the regular season, got egg on its face when championship game Hawkeyes went to a bowl game.

It cuts both ways.

I guarantee you that a Big 12 team that has a solid OOC 3-win season and a clear-cut Big 12 title will be in the national playoffs. Once it expands to 8 teams, then this whole argument becomes moot.

But never mute. Not on this board.
 
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LowFatMilk

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Cuyahoga Falls Eers said:
Let's look at the record: The Big 12 got a seat at the table for the 2015 national playoffs with 10 league members and no conference title game.

The Big 10, because Iowa didn't play Ohio State, Michigan or Michigan State during the regular season, got egg on its face when championship game Hawkeyes went to a bowl game.

It cuts both ways.

I guarantee you that a Big 12 team that has a solid OOC 3-win season and a clear-cut Big 12 title will be in the national playoffs. Once it expands to 8 teams, then this whole argument becomes moot.

But never mute. Not on this board.
Click to expand...

CFE... ..I'm not debating the actual topic (you make good points)..

...but rather that some posters have an agenda and really have zero interest in a conversation but rather choose to just endlessly express their opinions as facts in the hopes that advertising (without reasoning) will somehow make the masses agree with them.
 
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Buckaineer

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People focus on the CCG. Its undoubtedly a factor in whether the BIG 12 makes the playoffs or not--both years of the playoffs the BIG 12 has dropped to last place despite being higher the week before--because everyone else has a CCG. So far 50% of the time the BIG 12 has been left out. They must eliminate the disadvantage.

But that is only part of the picture. Expanding isn't just about playing a CCG even though that's necessary too, its just as much if not more about revenues.

If the BIG 12 doesn't do anything as some of you seem to want--the conference according to the commissioner is going to fall $20 million per school behind the Big Ten and SEC. Can't imagine why any of you would think that is a good thing--but what it will mean for WVU is that in 2025 WVU will have to find a new conference-or be in a conference struggling to find revenues after as many schools as can depart. Because OU will be gone, you can bet Texas will be gone, and probably a couple more with them.

But if the conference is successful in enacting these comprehensive changes --and schools like Oklahoma are leading the charge--then the conference will have long term stability, and high revenues and a higher probability of success competitively.

Cannot imagine why anyone claiming to be a WVU fan would NOT want that.
 
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LSUTigersRoar

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Okay WVU fans let us say the Big 12 does add two teams like cinny and BYU you know that WVU will be stuck in the weaker part of the Big 12 right? which means no Texas or Okla coming to your home. I understand and know the big 12 is being pressed by OU to do something while Texas is saying along with TT and TCU the problem if the Big 12 adds teams does that stop OU or Texas jumping still I mean when you really look at the college football big picture and money
 
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Buckaineer

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Ask yourself WVU fans--why is someone coming from another conference trying to convince you to NOT want expansion in the BIG 12? What possible reason would an LSU fan care what division of the BIG 12 WVU is in?

Truth is this person has NO idea what divisions in an expanded BIG 12 will look like or what division WVU will be in.

These people want the BIG 12 to fall apart so they can get BIG 12 teams into THEIR conference and to hell with everyone else in the BIG 12 that doesn't get taken along. That is why they are posting this nonsense--trying to get people against doing what the conference must do by complaining up the food chain.

Why is such even allowed to be posted on a West Virginia BIG 12 board?
 
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Buckaineer

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Carlton: Questions abound on Big 12's future, but Bob Bowlsby has one message for the conference
excerpt:

"If they ask me, 'Should we let this linger on another six months,' I'll say definitely no," Bowlsby said. "We need to move ahead and make decisions. I just think we need to move ahead expediently."

The next step comes Wednesday when a joint meeting of ADs and football coaches will hear from Navigate Research, which crunched all kinds of numbers -- from a 10-team conference to one with 16 teams, with and without a title game, with eight league games or nine.

Bowlsby confirmed that the model with 12 teams, a conference title game and eight conference games provided the best chance to reach the College Football Playoff.

Of course, that would require expansion.
 
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Buckaineer

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Mountaineer Steve

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Buckaineer said:
Carlton: Questions abound on Big 12's future, but Bob Bowlsby has one message for the conference
excerpt:

"If they ask me, 'Should we let this linger on another six months,' I'll say definitely no," Bowlsby said. "We need to move ahead and make decisions. I just think we need to move ahead expediently."

The next step comes Wednesday when a joint meeting of ADs and football coaches will hear from Navigate Research, which crunched all kinds of numbers -- from a 10-team conference to one with 16 teams, with and without a title game, with eight league games or nine.

Bowlsby confirmed that the model with 12 teams, a conference title game and eight conference games provided the best chance to reach the College Football Playoff.

Of course, that would require expansion.
Click to expand...
I think this is of more interest. Bowlsby talked about expansion providing 4-5% improvement to the BIG12 playoff chances. I and a few other questioned the validity of these number. However, if true, I thought it was not enough to sway expansion. Now there is a new report saying the numbers are closer to 10-15% improvement. I still have questions about the validity of the calculations, but clearly that number has much greater ramification on the expansion decision
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Buckaineer

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CBS updates the information:
Expansion would improve Big 12's playoff chances by 10-15 percent
excerpt:

Analytics from Navigate Research are expected to show the Big 12 has at least a 10-15 percent better chance of reaching the CFP in any given year if it expands as opposed to staying in its 10-team configuration.

That percentage at least doubles than the “4-5 percent” improvement commissioner Bob Bowlsby spoke about in Phoenix on Monday. That smaller figure discussed by Bowlsby only included the addition of a conference championship game, CBS Sports has learned.

So the previous info was for a 10 team league playing a CCG.
 
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Mountaineer Steve

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Cuyahoga Falls Eers said:
Let's look at the record: The Big 12 got a seat at the table for the 2015 national playoffs with 10 league members and no conference title game.

The Big 10, because Iowa didn't play Ohio State, Michigan or Michigan State during the regular season, got egg on its face when championship game Hawkeyes went to a bowl game.

It cuts both ways.

I guarantee you that a Big 12 team that has a solid OOC 3-win season and a clear-cut Big 12 title will be in the national playoffs. Once it expands to 8 teams, then this whole argument becomes moot.

But never mute. Not on this board.
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It does cut both ways, but your last paragraph isn't exactly true. Except for having a clear cut BIG12 title award, that might not be true. Both TCU and Baylor were 3-0 OOC and only one loss in conference. Some say the BIG12 botched the one true champion that year so we don't know for sure, but both of those programs got jumped by OSU based on CCG/.
 
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Buckaineer

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Carlton: Questions abound on Big 12's future, but Bob Bowlsby has one message for the conference

excerpt:
"Whatever it takes for our conference to make sure we're not disadvantaged," TCU coach Gary Patterson said. "I think that will be the answer. We'll do what we need to do to be competitive.


"I think we need to be as aggressive as we can as a conference."


After the meetings end this week, ADs and coaches will go back to campus and begin planning for what's to come in Irving.


Tech AD Kirby Hocutt said the key is not the Big 12 now but where it will be.


"I think it's a critical time for us to assess the future of the Big 12," Hocutt said. "Right now, we're a strong league. For the most part we feel real good about where we stand today. But times change, too.


"We've got to make sure we continue to make the best long-term decisions for our league, and I think we're all prepared to do that."
 
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Mountaineer Steve

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It will still all comes down to the Bengermans, If they are good and TexA$$ is willing to give up LHN then expansion will happen. If either of the above is negative expansion won't happen.

For whatever reason, if expansion does not happen the BIG12 is dead as a power conference in the long run
 
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LowFatMilk

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Mountaineer Steve said:
TexA$$ still playing the BIG12 bully?

Report: Texas pressure is holding up Big 12 expansion

http://www.burntorangenation.com/20...horns-big-12-expansion-conference-realignment

Texas is pressuring TCU and Texas Tech to withhold votes, leaving the conference one vote short of reaching that necessary 75-percent threshold
Click to expand...

If true...it's a lose-lose...

Either Texas gets their way and the majority of the conference doesn't.... ...or... ...Texas doesn't get their way and the flagship member of the conference starts flirting.
 
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skygusty_rivals

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Would Texas and Oklahoma and the rest of the Big12 be happy staying ahead of the ACC and the PAC or do they HAVE to have equal income as the SEC and the BIG. Would third place be good enough? This is a conference that hasn't had a national champion in over a decade. Somebody in this conference needs to prove they are the best at something at a little better rate than the current 1 year out of 11 for me to buy into this 'requirement' that they get equal pay.
 
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Mountaineer Steve

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skygusty said:
Would Texas and Oklahoma and the rest of the Big12 be happy staying ahead of the ACC and the PAC or do they HAVE to have equal income as the SEC and the BIG. Would third place be good enough? This is a conference that hasn't had a national champion in over a decade. Somebody in this conference needs to prove they are the best at something at a little better rate than the current 1 year out of 11 for me to buy into this 'requirement' that they get equal pay.
Click to expand...
Neither TexA$$ or OU will settle falling behind BIG and SEC. They would clearly look to strengthen their position if that were the case
 
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Buckaineer

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Updates from SportsDay Dallas:

Carlton: Big 12 facing three big issues; why conference can't afford to stand pat
excerpt:

"I think the concern is a widening of a gulf between our league and other leagues," Oklahoma AD Joe Castiglione said. "And that would impact our ability to be as successful as we want to be against our competitors."

So the process will continue with a likely resolution on the three big issues coming sometime in the summer.

The Big 12 has two teleconferences scheduled this month with its composition committee, which studies expansion and is comprised of three presidents: Oklahoma's David Boren, West Virginia's Gordon Gee and Baylor's Ken Starr. Boren and Gee are expansion proponents. The conference's board of governors (presidents and chancellors) has one conference call scheduled too, Bowlsby said.

Then the ADs and board of directors will meet in Irving on May 31-June 3. Two major presentations are scheduled, one from Navigate Research on its schedule findings and one from TV consultants, New York-based Bevilacqua Helfant Ventures (BHV).

Bowlsby confirmed Wednesday that BHV is talking with the conference TV partners gathering information in case the conference has to expand and redo its current TV contracts with Fox and ESPN, which run through 2024-25.

Bowlsby said it's "unlikely" the board of directors will take action in Irving but suggested they will at some point soon after.
 
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VaultHunter

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Mountaineer Steve said:
Neither TexA$$ or OU will settle falling behind BIG and SEC. They would clearly look to strengthen their position if that were the case
Click to expand...
I think Texas and OU might be just a little bit delusional. Why would you go from being a Big Fish in a smaller pond to being a medium fish in a bigger pond. Let's say OU leaves to go to the SEC. They then compete against Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Florida, who are arguably just as good as programs as Oklahoma. Same with Texas if they went to say the Big10 then they compete with Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State. Oklahoma and Texas are both elite programs but it's been 10+ years since either won a National Championship in football. It's ego both see themselves as Alabama and they are not. Ask Nebraska how that move to the Big10 has paid off. Obviously well for money but personally I would rather have success and a little less money than tons more money and less success. The thing that worries me most is Oklahoma wants 1 thing and Texas wants something completely different. I don't see Oklahoma doing any favors for Texas or Texas doing what Oklahoma wants. I'm worried WVU's status will be determined by Texas and OUs rivalry and be caught in the middle. If both leave more will leave than just those 2 and the Big12 dies. What does WVU do then?
 
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