Cohen and hires.....

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Why does he overthink and do a complete 180 on hires????

Baseball - The smart play would have been for Cohen to remain the Baseball Coach when he took the AD job until the end of the season and properly evaluate and go thru a thorough vetting process with coaches. We would have not had the whole Cannizzaro debacle.

Football - why did he try to reinvent the wheel on hiring The Savant Moorhead? Then even push that even further with Mike Leach? The smart play would have been someone like Neal Brown after Mullen..... maybe Leach works out, but Cohen sure did blow some money getting him here and could have hired him for 2 Million less a year when Mullen left...

WBB - no brainer Johnnie Harris should have been the hire... basically the same blueprint we used when we hired Vic. Instead we are most likely blowing up the roster in a couple of months and be the WBB version of a Rick Ray coached team...

MBB - To me we just don’t need to give Howland an extension and hopefully have a new AD hire the next coach.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

I disagree about Moorhead. There wasn’t a person who follows CFB or any state fans who thought that wasn’t a good hire. Good/similar fit schematically, extremely successful blue blood OC, had success running a football program as a HC. We still ran the **** out of IZ with Moorhead and were a run first team. Dan did more counter and power read things, but similar enough that we wouldn’t have to deviate too much from what made Dan so successful. At the time, Joe was a good hire.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

People downvote you all they want but it’s pretty true. It was considered a good hire. Sometimes you just find out the hard way that it wasn’t.

 

[57stratdawg]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Moorhead is a D1 HC again in the next few years. Possibly even at a small P5 school.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Johnnie Harris is just as much a risk. Just because she was on Vics staff doesn’t mean ****.

 

[Rayburn8]

Why does he overthink and do a complete 180 on hires????

Baseball - The smart play would have been for Cohen to remain the Baseball Coach when he took the AD job until the end of the season and properly evaluate and go thru a thorough vetting process with coaches. We would have not had the whole Cannizzaro debacle.

Football - why did he try to reinvent the wheel on hiring The Savant Moorhead? Then even push that even further with Mike Leach? The smart play would have been someone like Neal Brown after Mullen..... maybe Leach works out, but Cohen sure did blow some money getting him here and could have hired him for 2 Million less a year when Mullen left...

WBB - no brainer Johnnie Harris should have been the hire... basically the same blueprint we used when we hired Vic. Instead we are most likely blowing up the roster in a couple of months and be the WBB version of a Rick Ray coached team...

MBB - To me we just don’t need to give Howland an extension and hopefully have a new AD hire the next coach.

How was hiring Moorhead re-inventing the wheel? It was literally attempting to recreate Dan. Both are northeastern guys who were considered among the best OCs in the country at blue blood programs.

It was literally the same hire as Dan but just went the other way. That happens, and Cohen cut bait before it got too bad.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Couch experts love to proclaim they knew he would fail all along.

 

[Cooterpoot]

I disagree about Moorhead. There wasn’t a person who follows CFB or any state fans who thought that wasn’t a good hire. Good/similar fit schematically, extremely successful blue blood OC, had success running a football program as a HC. We still ran the **** out of IZ with Moorhead and were a run first team. Dan did more counter and power read things, but similar enough that we wouldn’t have to deviate too much from what made Dan so successful. At the time, Joe was a good hire.

That's false. You understand he was effectively fired at two OC jobs right? He had one successful OC job and that was with Barkley. He had a good agent.

 

[Mobile Bay]

I didn't consider Moorhead a good hire. Way to little experience at the FBS level, and it showed.

 

[Csdog]

Due diligence would have revealed to a competent AD that Joe Brady was the star of the offensive staff at Penn State. Look where he is at look at JOMO

 

[patdog]

Cohen is going to either outsmart everyone else or outsmart himself. Every time. Unfortunately, more often than not, it’s the latter.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

I disagree about Moorhead. There wasn’t a person who follows CFB or any state fans who thought that wasn’t a good hire. Good/similar fit schematically, extremely successful blue blood OC, had success running a football program as a HC. We still ran the **** out of IZ with Moorhead and were a run first team. Dan did more counter and power read things, but similar enough that we wouldn’t have to deviate too much from what made Dan so successful. At the time, Joe was a good hire.

Nope. Hell to the naw. Let's stop this line of thinking right now.

Yes, you're correct that the 'experts' thought it was a good hire. Hell Coinz even quoted them. But the experts were DEAD 17ING WRONG and we should NEVER listen to them about MSU. They don't care about what fits us, they want us to try all their stupid trends. Then they blame us when it fails, and say you can't win at MSU. 17 the experts, 17 Bill Connelly, 17 Kirk Herbstreit.

Slophead was NOT a good/similar fit schematically. He tried to turn us into a pass first team and that's why we failed, and he kept trying it. He ran the IZ because he was forced too, but it was too late. I get that you have to ultimately install what you know, so I blame Cohen more than Slophead. Everybody was even like, "hey, he will help correct all our wEaKnEsSeS!!!111 Yeah right, stuff doesn't work that way.
Colossal failure by Cohen to try and change the scheme in such a wholesale way with that 2018 team coming back. Should have promoted from within or actually hired a coach who ran a similar scheme.

That said, going after Leach after 2 years of Slophead turning us into a passing team was probably a good move. Cohen's job depends on it.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Agree with all. Welcome to the party.

I don't really think you can argue too much with the baseball results, but it still was a cluster17 to get there, and a less mentally tough group of players would have folded. Were very lucky to have Coach Mangum during that stretch.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

Lolol. Due diligence from you would have revealed that Joe Brady was with Moorhead for only his first season at PSU and was a grad assistant.

 

[PirateDawg]

Johnnie Harris is just as much a risk. Just because she was on Vics staff doesn’t mean ****.

How can you say that? She already coached these girls so they knew her and what to expect from her. She knew Vic's system and would have run the same plays and defenses so there would not have been a learning curve. Changing coaches always brings new game plans and different expectations. It is a big unknown for your remaining players. To say, "Just because she was on Vics staff doesn’t mean ****." is a huge leap.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

Dude. You have no idea what you are talking about. Trust me, you need to sit this one out. Moorhead is one of, if not the biggest inside zone coaches in the country. It’s what his entire offense is based on. It was that way at state, PSU and now at Oregon. He is in no way a pass first coach.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Dude. You have no idea what you are talking about. Trust me, you need to sit this one out. Moorhead is one of, if not the biggest inside zone coaches in the country. It’s what his entire offense is based on. It was that way at state, PSU and now at Oregon. He is in no way a pass first coach.

Wow, what planet are we on? Is the sky blue? Did you miss 2018 and 2019 entirely?

These are all things that were said or happened in those years:

"Moorhead is going to help Fitz' passing and help him be dynamic"
Percent run/pass is going to be more pass, etc.
Passing 156 times at Kentucky in the rain
Kept trying to pass against Florida
"Moorhead finally got it right against Auburn", "I took my coaching pills"
Kept trying to pass vs. LSU
"Moorhead did it right again against Texas A&M
"Moorhead needs his players"
"Tommy Stevens is HIS kind of QB" then becomes a runner
"Garrett Shrader is HIS kind of QB" then becomes a runner
Moorhead needs his kind of OL
Why didn't we hire a run-based coach that fits MSU/MS players
Repeat the above 100 times during 2019

That was LITERALLY THE BIGGEST COMPLAINT of most people who were fed up with Moorhead all year last year. Mullen had given us the blueprint, and Cohen tossed it out the window, because he wanted to open up the passing game more. Those are the facts.

I can't believe I'm explaining this to you. To give Moorhead credit, he did default to a running offense we he got desperate. And all the talk was how bad his offense sucked and he couldn't implement it with MS players, and his evaluations of Schrader were so far off base, because Schrader was like Fitzgerald. All of that added up to suckitude, i.e. Moorhead doing something he didn't know how to do. Then he lost control and that was that. That's what happened, accept it or not.

Then Cohen doubled down on the passing **** yet again. We'll see if it works. At least Leach is a good enough coach to do it.

ETA: Trojandawg will be more than happy to weigh in here. I argued with him non stop that we should give Moorhead a little more time because he's totally revamping the offense, and his point then is mine now.....it was a dumb idea to do it to begin with. He was right.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

I have no clue why you are saying all of that. It has nothing to do with your baseless statement that I corrected you on. You said he ran IZ because he was forced to, which is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. You also said he tried to make us a pass first offense, which is the second dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Moorhead runs an offense based off iz rpo’s. You know what the first thing in an rpo is? Run. The first and best option is the run. If that’s what your offense is based around then you are a run first offense.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

How can you say that? She already coached these girls so they knew her and what to expect from her. She knew Vic's system and would have run the same plays and defenses so there would not have been a learning curve. Changing coaches always brings new game plans and different expectations. It is a big unknown for your remaining players. To say, "Just because she was on Vics staff doesn’t mean ****." is a huge leap.

It's because he doesn't know what he's talking about. When you lose a very successful coach who leaves off of a high mark, you have to try and keep that going, unless there is some obvious upgrade available. Not to mention that Vic left during COVID, and that consistency with Harris could have made a lot of difference. Same with Mullen. It's a little harder to figure out what we should have done in football because he had no ready made successor, but going a totally different offensive direction was asinine. We all knew it when it happened but we all tried to rationalize it away.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Maybe time will tell on Moorhead....

 

[57stratdawg]

Dude. You have no idea what you are talking about. Trust me, you need to sit this one out. Moorhead is one of, if not the biggest inside zone coaches in the country. It’s what his entire offense is based on. It was that way at state, PSU and now at Oregon. He is in no way a pass first coach.

^^^ This is correct.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

Thank you for knowing football.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

I’m not saying he was a good HC, I agree about that, he was awful. But, at the time, it was a good hire.
And this Russ guy....he’s gotta be Goat, right?

 

[MSUDC11]

I can’t believe anyone who ever watched a John Cohen coached baseball team would ever be shocked that he’s turned out to be an overthinker as an AD.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

Are you saying our coaching hires are based loaded bunts?*

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

I can’t believe anyone who ever watched a John Cohen coached baseball team would ever be shocked that he’s turned out to be an overthinker as an AD.

It’s not like he bunted in the second inning...**

 

[paindonthurt_]

Correct.
He’s getting knocked for canni also. No way of knowing canni was gonna do what he did.

Cohen deserves some criticism but it’s not nearly as bad as some make it out to be.

 

[paindonthurt_]

If we hired johnnie Harris and it didn’t work, people would be saying the same **** but opposite.

Hiring isn’t a sure thing anywhere.

It’s even harder in coaching at this level.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Exactly and also just hiring the assistant doesn’t equate success. Just look at Tennessee after Pat Summit. If she didn’t do as well it would be the same story. “CoHeN CAnT HiRE AnyBoDy!”

 

[MSUDC11]

It’s not like he bunted in the second inning...**

More like the time he pulled Brent Rooker for a defensive sub against Arizona in the Super Regional and left us without our hottest hitter late in the game with our season on the line.

 

[MedDawg]

Due diligence would have revealed to a competent AD that Joe Brady was the star of the offensive staff at Penn State. Look where he is at look at JOMO

That's ridiculous. Joe Brady was a graduate assistant at Penn State and his previous experience was linebackers coach at William and Mary. No one knew who Joe Brady was in 2017 when we hired Moorhead. Certainly no one would hire Brady as a head coach in 2017.

P.S. He's still not a head coach. Must be a lot of dumb ADs out there.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

More like the time he pulled Brent Rooker for a defensive sub against Arizona in the Super Regional and left us without our hottest hitter late in the game with our season on the line.

I forgot about that one, now I’m mad all over again !!

 

[Todd4State]

Why does he overthink and do a complete 180 on hires????

Baseball - The smart play would have been for Cohen to remain the Baseball Coach when he took the AD job until the end of the season and properly evaluate and go thru a thorough vetting process with coaches. We would have not had the whole Cannizzaro debacle.

Football - why did he try to reinvent the wheel on hiring The Savant Moorhead? Then even push that even further with Mike Leach? The smart play would have been someone like Neal Brown after Mullen..... maybe Leach works out, but Cohen sure did blow some money getting him here and could have hired him for 2 Million less a year when Mullen left...

WBB - no brainer Johnnie Harris should have been the hire... basically the same blueprint we used when we hired Vic. Instead we are most likely blowing up the roster in a couple of months and be the WBB version of a Rick Ray coached team...

MBB - To me we just don’t need to give Howland an extension and hopefully have a new AD hire the next coach.

The way Cohen hires shouldn't surprise anybody. Look at his hires when he was a baseball coach- Butch was a player's coach into submarine/low arm angle guys. Wes was into weighted ball strengthening. Henderson also a player's coach. Lane Burroughs was a player's coach. Mingione was a bunting guru. See a theme? He had to have that because of his intense personality so that there wouldn't be a complete mutiny.

So then he hires Cann- another player's coach with big time scouting ties, had to go to Henderson on an interim basis and hired another player's coach in Lemonis.

Football- Moorhead- player's coach into RPO's and then hired Leach who is Mr. Air Raid. What Cohen is doing with Leach I think will pay off for us one way or the other in a couple of years but right now we look like a complete mess which is more on Moorhead and thus Cohen than Leach.

WBB- NMP is a player's coach obviously.

I don't trust Cohen with a hire in MBB.

The other thing about Cohen is he isn't good at managing the AD. Everything has fallen off the past few years. Promoting MSU, gameday experience, recruiting, and etc. All the stuff that Stricklin and Byrne were good at. Except for baseball- we promote that really well. From the outside it feels like there is a lot of "Well, Bobby knows concessions or gameday management or whatever and so he'll handle that for me." It just doesn't seem like there is a lot of leadership and people being pushed creatively. And so we end up with this meh product.

Pretty much all of it is due to inexperience and relying on advice of people like LT. (allegedly)

The bigger problem is firing Cohen is only lipstick on a pig because I'm sure there is some other LT lackey waiting in the wings that the big boosters will throw into place so that they can keep having their inside access and nice seats. What we really need is to completely go outside of the MSU "family" and find someone that can actually run an AD. I can dream anyway.**

And whenever Leach leaves can we please just hire some Southern coach that has SEC experience to be a CEO and hire really good OC/DC that focuses on recruiting really well instead of just trying to coach up every "diamond in the rough" that we salvage after Ole Miss buys a recruit away from us and isn't tied to a system?

 

[johnson86-1]

I disagree about Moorhead. There wasn’t a person who follows CFB or any state fans who thought that wasn’t a good hire. Good/similar fit schematically, extremely successful blue blood OC, had success running a football program as a HC. We still ran the **** out of IZ with Moorhead and were a run first team. Dan did more counter and power read things, but similar enough that we wouldn’t have to deviate too much from what made Dan so successful. At the time, Joe was a good hire.

All of this is true unless it's also true that Furman was the only school in its conference that was offering more or less athletic scholarships at the time. I've sseen several pepole claim this but haven't taken time to check it. If that's true, it doesn't make it a bad hire, but it makes it a lot more questionable. Got demoted at UConn, then his only head coaching experience was at a school with a competitive advantage, and then he had success at a blue blood that was stacked at the skill positions even for a blue blood. Hire starts to look a little questionable at that point and I would argue unnecessarily risky compared to a G5 HC running a power spread, but still not a bad hire. No sure things for any schools, but we certainly don't get to fish in the waters that look like sure things.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

The way Cohen hires shouldn't surprise anybody. Look at his hires when he was a baseball coach- Butch was a player's coach into submarine/low arm angle guys. Wes was into weighted ball strengthening. Henderson also a player's coach. Lane Burroughs was a player's coach. Mingione was a bunting guru. See a theme? He had to have that because of his intense personality so that there wouldn't be a complete mutiny.

So then he hires Cann- another player's coach with big time scouting ties, had to go to Henderson on an interim basis and hired another player's coach in Lemonis.

Football- Moorhead- player's coach into RPO's and then hired Leach who is Mr. Air Raid. What Cohen is doing with Leach I think will pay off for us one way or the other in a couple of years but right now we look like a complete mess which is more on Moorhead and thus Cohen than Leach.

WBB- NMP is a player's coach obviously.

I don't trust Cohen with a hire in MBB.

The other thing about Cohen is he isn't good at managing the AD. Everything has fallen off the past few years. Promoting MSU, gameday experience, recruiting, and etc. All the stuff that Stricklin and Byrne were good at. Except for baseball- we promote that really well. From the outside it feels like there is a lot of "Well, Bobby knows concessions or gameday management or whatever and so he'll handle that for me." It just doesn't seem like there is a lot of leadership and people being pushed creatively. And so we end up with this meh product.

Pretty much all of it is due to inexperience and relying on advice of people like LT. (allegedly)

The bigger problem is firing Cohen is only lipstick on a pig because I'm sure there is some other LT lackey waiting in the wings that the big boosters will throw into place so that they can keep having their inside access and nice seats. What we really need is to completely go outside of the MSU "family" and find someone that can actually run an AD. I can dream anyway.**

And whenever Leach leaves can we please just hire some Southern coach that has SEC experience to be a CEO and hire really good OC/DC that focuses on recruiting really well instead of just trying to coach up every "diamond in the rough" that we salvage after Ole Miss buys a recruit away from us and isn't tied to a system?

You're hitting on something interesting here. Many people say that administrators always do their best job once they become the top administrator. I think what we're seeing is that running an Athletic Department isn't administration. Or maybe it is, but you can see direct differences between LT/Cohen, who try to balance the budget (it's just their nature), and Byrne/Striclin, who try to increase the budget. LT/Cohen end up only talking to the big boys because that's what the odds say to do, while Byrne/Stricklin get out and talk to everyone and fund raise. The key to either of them is to hire out what you're weak at. LT/Cohen need to be more 'people' persons and Byrne/Stricklin need to be able to handle the cigar boys i.e. have balls, and we all know Byrne did that's why he was the total package, and that's why EVERYONE was excited about MSU sports when he was there.

 

[Russ Wheeler]

Exactly and also just hiring the assistant doesn’t equate success. Just look at Tennessee after Pat Summit. If she didn’t do as well it would be the same story. “CoHeN CAnT HiRE AnyBoDy!”

No, it doesn't but it's the most logical path, all things considered. Much less risky, and most people can live with it.

 

[Csdog]

Lolol. Due diligence from you would have revealed that Joe Brady was with Moorhead for only his first season at PSU and was a grad assistant.

Lol! Brady went directly from Penn State to being the QB coach for the New Orleans Saints. You and a lot of MSU fans deserve John Cohen. Ask your self this. What other SEC school would have hired Cohen to be its Athletic Director? LOL. None

 

[Drebin]

Why does he overthink and do a complete 180 on hires????

Baseball - The smart play would have been for Cohen to remain the Baseball Coach when he took the AD job until the end of the season and properly evaluate and go thru a thorough vetting process with coaches. We would have not had the whole Cannizzaro debacle.

Football - why did he try to reinvent the wheel on hiring The Savant Moorhead? Then even push that even further with Mike Leach? The smart play would have been someone like Neal Brown after Mullen..... maybe Leach works out, but Cohen sure did blow some money getting him here and could have hired him for 2 Million less a year when Mullen left...

WBB - no brainer Johnnie Harris should have been the hire... basically the same blueprint we used when we hired Vic. Instead we are most likely blowing up the roster in a couple of months and be the WBB version of a Rick Ray coached team...

MBB - To me we just don’t need to give Howland an extension and hopefully have a new AD hire the next coach.

I don't give him a pass on Cannizaro. It may have looked good on paper, and it may have given Cohen a chance to kick Manieri in the balls by taking his top assistant, but Cannizaro was not ready to be a head coach. He wasn't mature enough, and wasn't organized enough. For a guy like Cohen, who knows baseball and what it takes to run a program first and foremost, that should have jumped off the page to him. I think his hubris did him in on the Cannizaro situation, and that's not a good thing for your athletic director.

 

[maroonmania]

None of this should be surprising, we hired a greenhorn as an SEC AD with no athletic administration experience. Sitting in on the hiring process of a few head coaches at MSU is a drop in the bucket of the overall responsibilities of a P5 athletic director. The public relations, marketing and fundraising side of things were totally new to Cohen as well as many other aspects including setting the tone and vision for the entire athletic department. Byrne and Stricklin were groomed to be athletic directors while Cohen is just learning on the job.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

Good Lord, man. You are clueless. You could at least search google to fact-check yourself. Joe Lombardi was the saint QB coach from the time Brady was a grad assistant at PSU through this year. Brady as an ‘offensive assistant’. But please, keep making random statements as fact.