Coach K vs. Adolph Rupp

thehow

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New to the board and need some help. I've got a friend (Kentucky hater) who's screaming from the rooftops that with Coach K getting his 12th Final Four and already having 4 championships, he's now second only to Wooden. Help me make the case for Rupp. So far I've got...

- Rupp has a better all-time winning percentage
- The first 9 years of Rupp's coaching career the NCAA Tourney didn't exist, so he didn't have as many opportunities to make the Final Four as Coach K


What else?
 
Dec 12, 2007
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Apples and oranges. Totally different eras, talent pools, style of play, tournament makeup, etc. It's like comparing the professional players of the 50s and 60s to the ones today. Doesn't mean Cousy wasn't great, but he wouldn't be as good as he was if he were playing today.
 

JPScott

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Rupp coached during times when there were far fewer games played and thus fewer opportunities to rack up a large number of wins. Despite that, Rupp went out of his way to travel outside of his natural region to schedule tough opponents.

Also not only was he present for large and dramatic changes in the game of basketball over his career, but he played an important role in developing the game itself, both in terms of on the court but also in terms of popularizing the sport (both domestically and internationally).

The changes in the sport between 1930 and 1972 were dramatic. In relation to that, the changes between the early 1980's and today are relatively minor.

Also, what Rupp accomplished he largely did with players from within the state or within the immediate region.

Calipari, Coach K and Dean Smith etc. were able to draw top talent from around the nation. Huge difference.
This post was edited on 4/3 10:02 AM by JPScott
 

Real Deal 2

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Come on now. Rupp was a Mt Rushmore coach but even the most blue tinted people have to give their props to Coach K and say he has done it better. I am as big of UK fan as anyone, Rupp really brought the running game into vogue and sped up the game, Henry Iba was running slower offense etc.. That era when they show it is set shots and 38-37 games for half of his career. Rupp won his last championship in 58, one other FF in 66. He went to 1 FF in 14 years, can you imagine Dean Smith, Coach K, Cal, Rick Pitino going 14 years with one FF. No way. Rupp was not as great of a coach as Dean Smith, Coach K, many say Henry Iba was more influential. Coach K in this modern environment is not close to Rupp. Rupp again was one of all time greats but the fact he won in a 10 year window from 48-58 can only make him one of the greats. He is below Wooden, Coach K, Dean because of modern game. He also drug his feet on integration, he coached a long time and would have been a great coach. I am a UK fan and hate UNC, Duke, etc.. I am ok to admit that Rupp is not as good as Coach K and accept the fact he drug his feet at UK, UK fans just have to accept it and go on.
IMO
 

DORTONCAT

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Feb 16, 2010
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Winning percentage is winning percentage. Both are coaching in "their era" and against equal competition of the time. So Advantage =Coach Rupp.
Each has the opportunity to claim titles based on the "field of play". Whether it be The Helms Trophy, NIT Tournament Title, NCAA Tournament Title (16, 32, 64, 66 teams etc.). A Championship is a Championship whether it is won or voted on and given (NCAA Football is an example). Again advantage = Coach Rupp.
Coach Rupp literally dominated the Conference he coached in. No other NCAA Coach has done what he done in that regards. Advantage = Coach Rupp.
Pioneered the game both on offense with the fast break style of play and on defense with the 1-3-1 zone to man switching defense.
Won an NCAA Championship and Coached that collegiate team along with players from other collegiate teams to an Olympic Gold Medal (without professional players).
I will say this, (IMO) Coach Rupp would most likely be very successful in today's "College Game", but I don't think Coach 'K' or many of the coaches today would have their level of success in Rupp's time.
 
Jan 9, 2003
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Originally posted by The How:
New to the board and need some help. I've got a friend (Kentucky hater) who's screaming from the rooftops that with Coach K getting his 12th Final Four and already having 4 championships, he's now second only to Wooden. Help me make the case for Rupp. So far I've got...

- Rupp has a better all-time winning percentage
- The first 9 years of Rupp's coaching career the NCAA Tourney didn't exist, so he didn't have as many opportunities to make the Final Four as Coach K


What else?
It was a different era when Rupp was coach. In fact you had to win your conference to get to the NCAA.

Hell this year Duke would not have qualified. The ACC rep would have been Notre Dame.

Coach K is special but Rupp changed the game.
 

JPScott

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Originally posted by Real Deal 2:
Come on now. Rupp was a Mt Rushmore coach but even the most blue tinted people have to give their props to Coach K and say he has done it better. I am as big of UK fan as anyone, Rupp really brought the running game into vogue and sped up the game, Henry Iba was running slower offense etc.. That era when they show it is set shots and 38-37 games for half of his career. Rupp won his last championship in 58, one other FF in 66. He went to 1 FF in 14 years, can you imagine Dean Smith, Coach K, Cal, Rick Pitino going 14 years with one FF. No way. Rupp was not as great of a coach as Dean Smith, Coach K, many say Henry Iba was more influential. Coach K in this modern environment is not close to Rupp. Rupp again was one of all time greats but the fact he won in a 10 year window from 48-58 can only make him one of the greats. He is below Wooden, Coach K, Dean because of modern game. He also drug his feet on integration, he coached a long time and would have been a great coach. I am a UK fan and hate UNC, Duke, etc.. I am ok to admit that Rupp is not as good as Coach K and accept the fact he drug his feet at UK, UK fans just have to accept it and go on.
IMO
There's so much wrong with what you wrote, it's hard to know where to begin. But a few comments.

1.) in the early days the game pace was actually much faster than today, despite the relatively low scores
2.) you seem to put a lot of stock into coaches who coached in the 'modern game' but don't seem to give much credit to one of the coaches who is largely responsible for creating the 'modern game' in the first place.
3.) Care to explain what you mean by 'drug his feet on integration'. He actually was quite progressive in relation to other coaches in the South during that era. And if anything the fact that his teams were playing against integrated teams while his teams were not was a disadvantage to him.
 

OHIO COLONEL

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Originally posted by Bert Higginbotha:
Originally posted by The How:
New to the board and need some help. I've got a friend (Kentucky hater) who's screaming from the rooftops that with Coach K getting his 12th Final Four and already having 4 championships, he's now second only to Wooden. Help me make the case for Rupp. So far I've got...

- Rupp has a better all-time winning percentage
- The first 9 years of Rupp's coaching career the NCAA Tourney didn't exist, so he didn't have as many opportunities to make the Final Four as Coach K


What else?
It was a different era when Rupp was coach. In fact you had to win your conference to get to the NCAA.

Hell this year Duke would not have qualified. The ACC rep would have been Notre Dame.

Coach K is special but Rupp changed the game.
What I was going to say. Count up the number of FFs Duke has been in where they weren't their conference champ and deduct and that would be the number if you could do a one-on-one comparison. And keep in mind two things. One, the ACC always recognized the ACC tourney champ not regular season. And two, back in the day the ACC only had 8 (?) teams.
Still would not take away from Coach K's accomplishments which are very, very good by any measure.
 

Anon1712931820

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Originally posted by Real Dumba$$ 2:

Come on now. Rupp was a Mt Rushmore coach but even the most blue tinted people have to give their props to Coach K and say he has done it better. I am as big of UK fan as anyone, Rupp really brought the running game into vogue and sped up the game, Henry Iba was running slower offense etc.. That era when they show it is set shots and 38-37 games for half of his career. Rupp won his last championship in 58, one other FF in 66. He went to 1 FF in 14 years, can you imagine Dean Smith, Coach K, Cal, Rick Pitino going 14 years with one FF. No way. Rupp was not as great of a coach as Dean Smith, Coach K, many say Henry Iba was more influential. Coach K in this modern environment is not close to Rupp. Rupp again was one of all time greats but the fact he won in a 10 year window from 48-58 can only make him one of the greats. He is below Wooden, Coach K, Dean because of modern game. He also drug his feet on integration, he coached a long time and would have been a great coach. I am a UK fan and hate UNC, Duke, etc.. I am ok to admit that Rupp is not as good as Coach K and accept the fact he drug his feet at UK, UK fans just have to accept it and go on.
IMO
Fixed your name for ya.
 

JasonS.

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Kind of like trying to argue Barry Bonds vs. Babe Ruth. It's interesting to discuss but you're not going to resolve anything.

For my money I'd say Coach K or Bob Knight are GOAT, but it helps a lot those are the two that ruled the game while I've been alive.
 

DORTONCAT

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Feb 16, 2010
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It amazes me at the shear ignorance (lack of knowledge) of so many that claim to be basketball fans and particularly UK Fans that they blame Coach Rupp for Kentucky not have any black athlete's on their teams, when in fact it was an SEC Conference Rule. And other teams from that era were the same (i.e. all the SEC or Southern Conference teams, plus many of the ACC Teams including Duke and UNC). The media is mostly responsible for this but their comes a time in a persons life when they need to be responsible and search for the truth instead of being led blindly down the wrong path. I feel so sorry for these people because when I read their comments, they loose all their credibility with me.
 

jrpross_rivals

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Feb 21, 2008
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Yeah it's hard to compare the 2. Rupp only coached 1066 games because of shorter seasons, some of which were only 17 or 18 games long. K has coached 1326 games in 2 fewer seasons than Rupp coached had Rupp had 35+ game seasons, who knows what his record would be?

As it was said, comparing the 2 is apples and oranges. I will root against old Ratface whenever he's not playing Louisville but I have to give props for what he's done. To say that one is better than the other is like saying Davinci was a better artist than Picasso. You can't really "grade" the two and say "well it's official, this guy is better because...." They are both 2 of the all time greats and we may as well leave it at that.
 

Hjack

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Originally posted by OHIO COLONEL:

Originally posted by Bert Higginbotha:
Originally posted by The How:
New to the board and need some help. I've got a friend (Kentucky hater) who's screaming from the rooftops that with Coach K getting his 12th Final Four and already having 4 championships, he's now second only to Wooden. Help me make the case for Rupp. So far I've got...

- Rupp has a better all-time winning percentage
- The first 9 years of Rupp's coaching career the NCAA Tourney didn't exist, so he didn't have as many opportunities to make the Final Four as Coach K


What else?
It was a different era when Rupp was coach. In fact you had to win your conference to get to the NCAA.

Hell this year Duke would not have qualified. The ACC rep would have been Notre Dame.

Coach K is special but Rupp changed the game.
What I was going to say. Count up the number of FFs Duke has been in where they weren't their conference champ and deduct and that would be the number if you could do a one-on-one comparison. And keep in mind two things. One, the ACC always recognized the ACC tourney champ not regular season. And two, back in the day the ACC only had 8 (?) teams.
Still would not take away from Coach K's accomplishments which are very, very good by any measure.
And not to forget that there were not 66 teams chosen to play in the NCAA tournament in Rupp's era, therefore the chance to make a Final Four was much less.
 

Real Deal 2

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He drug his feet and don't care what anyone says. I am as staunch of UK fan as anyone and can accept the fact that Rupp drug his feet and really failed to change with the times. Anyone that says different is crazy and lying to themselves. Bear Bryant and Darrel Royal drug their feet as well. Just the way it was and just accept it UK. I love UK and I take up for UK and Rupp in these arguments but this fallacy that Rupp was ahead of his time is crap. He was ahead of his time in BB but behind in social issues of the day. Quit trying to hide it. We UK fans have been fighting this for 40+ years, just accept.

A lot of people were on the wrong side of history and a lot of it is no fault of their own and some it is the fault of their own. This sweeping under the rug by the Rupp defenders is wrong, no one is saying he was a blatant racist but he did drag his feet and he was way behind the times just like Royal, Frank McGuire at UNC, USC, Bear Bryant. People like Bear Bryant and Rupp can affect change and they drug their feet until they were getting their brains beat out of them by black players.

There was a whole generation between 1963-72 that it was impossible to recruit great Black players to UK, problem is self inflicted and partial being on wrong side of history in 66.
Ky had great players Butch Beard, Unseld, Clem Haskins and others. UK would have probably been ala UCLA in titles if not for dragging of feet.

I am UK fan and can accept it, just part of the deal. Some of you just can' accept the truth or history.
IMO
 

westerncat

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Feb 19, 2012
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Originally posted by DORTONCAT:
It amazes me at the shear ignorance (lack of knowledge) of so many that claim to be basketball fans and particularly UK Fans that they blame Coach Rupp for Kentucky not have any black athlete's on their teams, when in fact it was an SEC Conference Rule. And other teams from that era were the same (i.e. all the SEC or Southern Conference teams, plus many of the ACC Teams including Duke and UNC). The media is mostly responsible for this but their comes a time in a persons life when they need to be responsible and search for the truth instead of being led blindly down the wrong path. I feel so sorry for these people because when I read their comments, they loose all their credibility with me.
Thank you for posting this information. So many people do not realize it was an SEC rule. Good post !
 
May 9, 2002
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Originally posted by Hjack:

Originally posted by OHIO COLONEL:


Originally posted by Bert Higginbotha:

Originally posted by The How:
New to the board and need some help. I've got a friend (Kentucky hater) who's screaming from the rooftops that with Coach K getting his 12th Final Four and already having 4 championships, he's now second only to Wooden. Help me make the case for Rupp. So far I've got...

- Rupp has a better all-time winning percentage
- The first 9 years of Rupp's coaching career the NCAA Tourney didn't exist, so he didn't have as many opportunities to make the Final Four as Coach K


What else?
It was a different era when Rupp was coach. In fact you had to win your conference to get to the NCAA.

Hell this year Duke would not have qualified. The ACC rep would have been Notre Dame.

Coach K is special but Rupp changed the game.
What I was going to say. Count up the number of FFs Duke has been in where they weren't their conference champ and deduct and that would be the number if you could do a one-on-one comparison. And keep in mind two things. One, the ACC always recognized the ACC tourney champ not regular season. And two, back in the day the ACC only had 8 (?) teams.
Still would not take away from Coach K's accomplishments which are very, very good by any measure.
And not to forget that there were not 66 teams chosen to play in the NCAA tournament in Rupp's era, therefore the chance to make a Final Four was much less.
Actually, more teams in the tournament make it more difficult to make a final four. You have to win 4 games today as opposed to 2 games in Rupp's time.

What made it more difficult for Rupp is that the tournament wasn't seeded. Everybody played in their natural region even if it meant the 4 teams in the country were in the same regional. UK had the misfortune of being in the same regional as the Big Ten champion and the top independent teams every year.
 

Real Deal 2

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Originally posted by westerncat:

Originally posted by DORTONCAT:
It amazes me at the shear ignorance (lack of knowledge) of so many that claim to be basketball fans and particularly UK Fans that they blame Coach Rupp for Kentucky not have any black athlete's on their teams, when in fact it was an SEC Conference Rule. And other teams from that era were the same (i.e. all the SEC or Southern Conference teams, plus many of the ACC Teams including Duke and UNC). The media is mostly responsible for this but their comes a time in a persons life when they need to be responsible and search for the truth instead of being led blindly down the wrong path. I feel so sorry for these people because when I read their comments, they loose all their credibility with me.
Thank you for posting this information. So many people do not realize it was an SEC rule. Good post !
Does that make you feel better that Rupp did not push the issue. Rupp was Coach K. and Izzo in that respect. If he genuinely cared and wanted to change it than he would have, just like Bear Bryant and Darrell Royal. None changed until they got their asses beat by USC and Sam Bam Cunningham and Royal losing great black players to Oklahoma, Mich St. and Notre Dame and Big 10 schools. Just think this is an easy cop out for the apologists that SEC rule.

Rupp could have made a bigger statement and forced change just like Bear Bryant. The problem is not that it makes them racists or bigots but it makes the argument that they did everything they could to push the envelope for change so the label in that respect is something you have to live with if you are UK and that legacy. Makes no difference if Rupp was not a racists or whatever, just the way it fell in history and Rupp was on the wrong side of history.

Bear Bryant got another 10-13 years to recruit black players and this helped his legacy in terms of recruiting black athletes. If Rupp would have had that time than I am sure his legacy would have been framed differently.
IMO
 

eddie3

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You guys do realize that for most of Rupps career a black person could not eatt or sleep in same resttaurants or hotels as whites. Why would you want to expose a kid to that ? You had the governor of Ala standing on the campus in Tuscaloosa declaring segregation now and forever in the 60s. I really think most on here have no concept of the extreme racism of the deep south during this era. Remember Miiss St refusing to play in ncaa tourney because would have to play against black athletes i n the 60s? It was the era of hate and fear. A truly ugly time in American history and no college coach could change it
 

DORTONCAT

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Originally posted by Real Deal 2:

Originally posted by westerncat:


Originally posted by DORTONCAT:
It amazes me at the shear ignorance (lack of knowledge) of so many that claim to be basketball fans and particularly UK Fans that they blame Coach Rupp for Kentucky not have any black athlete's on their teams, when in fact it was an SEC Conference Rule. And other teams from that era were the same (i.e. all the SEC or Southern Conference teams, plus many of the ACC Teams including Duke and UNC). The media is mostly responsible for this but their comes a time in a persons life when they need to be responsible and search for the truth instead of being led blindly down the wrong path. I feel so sorry for these people because when I read their comments, they loose all their credibility with me.
Thank you for posting this information. So many people do not realize it was an SEC rule. Good post !
Does that make you feel better that Rupp did not push the issue. Rupp was Coach K. and Izzo in that respect. If he genuinely cared and wanted to change it than he would have, just like Bear Bryant and Darrell Royal. None changed until they got their asses beat by USC and Sam Bam Cunningham and Royal losing great black players to Oklahoma, Mich St. and Notre Dame and Big 10 schools. Just think this is an easy cop out for the apologists that SEC rule.

Rupp could have made a bigger statement and forced change just like Bear Bryant. The problem is not that it makes them racists or bigots but it makes the argument that they did everything they could to push the envelope for change so the label in that respect is something you have to live with if you are UK and that legacy. Makes no difference if Rupp was not a racists or whatever, just the way it fell in history and Rupp was on the wrong side of history.

Bear Bryant got another 10-13 years to recruit black players and this helped his legacy in terms of recruiting black athletes. If Rupp would have had that time than I am sure his legacy would have been framed differently.
IMO
Exposing ignorance is never pleasant, for me, but it is something that needs to be done from time to time. If you would like to know more along the lines of Coach Rupp and him being a racist or not, I refer you to "John Scott's Page" so you may read some interesting facts. For example, did you did know that Coach Rupp had UK schedule "integrated" teams while other SEC, Southern Conference and ACC teams would not. He also assisted top black high school athletes get scholarships to schools, with good programs,, that would allow them to play collegiate sports. Also, did you know that Coach Bryant once coached football at the University of Kentucky when they had an all white team before leaving UK and going to ALABAMA where they also had an all white team.
 

Cawood86_rivals

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Feb 20, 2005
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Originally posted by Real Deal 2:

He drug his feet and don't care what anyone says. I am as staunch of UK fan as anyone and can accept the fact that Rupp drug his feet and really failed to change with the times. Anyone that says different is crazy and lying to themselves. Bear Bryant and Darrel Royal drug their feet as well. Just the way it was and just accept it UK. I love UK and I take up for UK and Rupp in these arguments but this fallacy that Rupp was ahead of his time is crap. He was ahead of his time in BB but behind in social issues of the day. Quit trying to hide it. We UK fans have been fighting this for 40+ years, just accept.

A lot of people were on the wrong side of history and a lot of it is no fault of their own and some it is the fault of their own. This sweeping under the rug by the Rupp defenders is wrong, no one is saying he was a blatant racist but he did drag his feet and he was way behind the times just like Royal, Frank McGuire at UNC, USC, Bear Bryant. People like Bear Bryant and Rupp can affect change and they drug their feet until they were getting their brains beat out of them by black players.

There was a whole generation between 1963-72 that it was impossible to recruit great Black players to UK, problem is self inflicted and partial being on wrong side of history in 66.
Ky had great players Butch Beard, Unseld, Clem Haskins and others. UK would have probably been ala UCLA in titles if not for dragging of feet.

I am UK fan and can accept it, just part of the deal. Some of you just can' accept the truth or history.
IMO
"He drug his feet and don't care what anyone says." This shows your ignorance on the issue. No need to say anything else when you said that. Nor any need for me or anyone else to try.
 

Chuckinden

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Originally posted by The How:
New to the board and need some help. I've got a friend (Kentucky hater) who's screaming from the rooftops that with Coach K getting his 12th Final Four and already having 4 championships, he's now second only to Wooden. Help me make the case for Rupp. So far I've got...

- Rupp has a better all-time winning percentage
- The first 9 years of Rupp's coaching career the NCAA Tourney didn't exist, so he didn't have as many opportunities to make the Final Four as Coach K


What else?
You need a new friend.
 

JPScott

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Sep 16, 2001
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Originally posted by Real Deal 2:

He drug his feet and don't care what anyone says. I am as staunch of UK fan as anyone and can accept the fact that Rupp drug his feet and really failed to change with the times. Anyone that says different is crazy and lying to themselves. Bear Bryant and Darrel Royal drug their feet as well. Just the way it was and just accept it UK. I love UK and I take up for UK and Rupp in these arguments but this fallacy that Rupp was ahead of his time is crap. He was ahead of his time in BB but behind in social issues of the day. Quit trying to hide it. We UK fans have been fighting this for 40+ years, just accept.

A lot of people were on the wrong side of history and a lot of it is no fault of their own and some it is the fault of their own. This sweeping under the rug by the Rupp defenders is wrong, no one is saying he was a blatant racist but he did drag his feet and he was way behind the times just like Royal, Frank McGuire at UNC, USC, Bear Bryant. People like Bear Bryant and Rupp can affect change and they drug their feet until they were getting their brains beat out of them by black players.

There was a whole generation between 1963-72 that it was impossible to recruit great Black players to UK, problem is self inflicted and partial being on wrong side of history in 66.
Ky had great players Butch Beard, Unseld, Clem Haskins and others. UK would have probably been ala UCLA in titles if not for dragging of feet.

I am UK fan and can accept it, just part of the deal. Some of you just can' accept the truth or history.
IMO
First of all I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to when you speak of 'sweeping under the rug' Rupp defenders. If anything the people who 'sweep things under the up' are his critics, and people such as yourself who speak in generalities without knowing any specifics.

Secondly, I think there's a misconception about Rupp during that era. The claim that Rupp 'drug his feet' in terms of recruiting black players is patently false. Below is one example where Rupp very nearly signed Butch Beard in 1965. And there's plenty of other information which supports the fact that Rupp was in favor of integrating his program and made efforts to do so.


The misconception relative to Rupp 'dragging his feet' was over the issue of tokenism. Rupp was adamantly against tokenism, whether it was related to signing black players or in general. It is this particular issue which his critics can rightly question him. I.e. whether it was worthwhile to sign a lesser player simply so that he can claim the program was integrated.

For Rupp, he didn't think that was fair to the player, and wasn't fair to the program, especially since the player was potentially putting his life and health at risk by traveling into the Deep South.

I personally think Rupp made the right decision with respect to tokenism, at the time and even looking back today in hindsight.

So to the people who still see fit to criticize Rupp over what occurred 50 or 60 years ago, I do wonder exactly what they believe he was 'dragging his feet' over? And exactly what do you feel he should have done differently. Beyond that are they in favor of tokenism?

I think that in hindsight he could and should have made a more concerted effort to sign black players, because UK was not successful as they should have been and that has indeed harmed them. But at the same time I find it ludicrous to hear his critics act like he made no effort or somehow resisted integration, etc. Those people simply don't know what they're talking about IMO.
 

JPScott

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Originally posted by ukalum:
Originally posted by Hjack:

And not to forget that there were not 66 teams chosen to play in the NCAA tournament in Rupp's era, therefore the chance to make a Final Four was much less.
Actually, more teams in the tournament make it more difficult to make a final four. You have to win 4 games today as opposed to 2 games in Rupp's time.

What made it more difficult for Rupp is that the tournament wasn't seeded. Everybody played in their natural region even if it meant the 4 teams in the country were in the same regional. UK had the misfortune of being in the same regional as the Big Ten champion and the top independent teams every year.
With respect to how difficult it was to win the tournament, I actually think it's about the same today as it was back then. I base this on the theory that every year there are about 15-20 teams who have a legitimate shot at winning the title any given year.

The size of the tournament field itself is immaterial. With a smaller field all that meant is that a team needed to accomplish more in the regular season just to get into the tournament field. With a larger field you have more games in the tournament but it's easier to get invited.

Consider that under some of the rules that Rupp was under, neither the 1996 UK team nor the 2012 UK team would have even been invited to the tournament. Given that I'm not sure how anyone could argue it was easier to win the title back then.
 

gakat3

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Apr 5, 2008
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Originally posted by DORTONCAT:
Winning percentage is winning percentage. Both are coaching in "their era" and against equal competition of the time. So Advantage =Coach Rupp.
Each has the opportunity to claim titles based on the "field of play". Whether it be The Helms Trophy, NIT Tournament Title, NCAA Tournament Title (16, 32, 64, 66 teams etc.). A Championship is a Championship whether it is won or voted on and given (NCAA Football is an example). Again advantage = Coach Rupp.
Coach Rupp literally dominated the Conference he coached in. No other NCAA Coach has done what he done in that regards. Advantage = Coach Rupp.
Pioneered the game both on offense with the fast break style of play and on defense with the 1-3-1 zone to man switching defense.
Won an NCAA Championship and Coached that collegiate team along with players from other collegiate teams to an Olympic Gold Medal (without professional players).
I will say this, (IMO) Coach Rupp would most likely be very successful in today's "College Game", but I don't think Coach 'K' or many of the coaches today would have their level of success in Rupp's time.
As Jon Scott has eloquently put it, you have no idea what you are talking about. Did you see games in 40s? Obviously not.

Dorton Cat, sorry for mistake.

This comment was directed at Real Deal 2, who has not idea what the hell he is talking about. Just a fake fan.
This post was edited on 4/3 2:32 PM by gakat3
 

gakat3

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Apr 5, 2008
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Originally posted by Real Deal 2:

He drug his feet and don't care what anyone says. I am as staunch of UK fan as anyone and can accept the fact that Rupp drug his feet and really failed to change with the times. Anyone that says different is crazy and lying to themselves. Bear Bryant and Darrel Royal drug their feet as well. Just the way it was and just accept it UK. I love UK and I take up for UK and Rupp in these arguments but this fallacy that Rupp was ahead of his time is crap. He was ahead of his time in BB but behind in social issues of the day. Quit trying to hide it. We UK fans have been fighting this for 40+ years, just accept.

A lot of people were on the wrong side of history and a lot of it is no fault of their own and some it is the fault of their own. This sweeping under the rug by the Rupp defenders is wrong, no one is saying he was a blatant racist but he did drag his feet and he was way behind the times just like Royal, Frank McGuire at UNC, USC, Bear Bryant. People like Bear Bryant and Rupp can affect change and they drug their feet until they were getting their brains beat out of them by black players.

There was a whole generation between 1963-72 that it was impossible to recruit great Black players to UK, problem is self inflicted and partial being on wrong side of history in 66.
Ky had great players Butch Beard, Unseld, Clem Haskins and others. UK would have probably been ala UCLA in titles if not for dragging of feet.

I am UK fan and can accept it, just part of the deal. Some of you just can' accept the truth or history.
IMO
As always I applaud Jon Scott for answering your idiotic comments but folks like you keep banging the untruth and claim you are right. You are so wrong about so much. I'm sure you were a member of the SEC committee that set rules in 40s, 50s and 60s. Awwww you weren't, so how do know so much that's wrong?
 

kat57

Junior
Mar 3, 2003
3,206
334
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Originally posted by gakat3:


Originally posted by Real Deal 2:

He drug his feet and don't care what anyone says. I am as staunch of UK fan as anyone and can accept the fact that Rupp drug his feet and really failed to change with the times. Anyone that says different is crazy and lying to themselves. Bear Bryant and Darrel Royal drug their feet as well. Just the way it was and just accept it UK. I love UK and I take up for UK and Rupp in these arguments but this fallacy that Rupp was ahead of his time is crap. He was ahead of his time in BB but behind in social issues of the day. Quit trying to hide it. We UK fans have been fighting this for 40+ years, just accept.

A lot of people were on the wrong side of history and a lot of it is no fault of their own and some it is the fault of their own. This sweeping under the rug by the Rupp defenders is wrong, no one is saying he was a blatant racist but he did drag his feet and he was way behind the times just like Royal, Frank McGuire at UNC, USC, Bear Bryant. People like Bear Bryant and Rupp can affect change and they drug their feet until they were getting their brains beat out of them by black players.

There was a whole generation between 1963-72 that it was impossible to recruit great Black players to UK, problem is self inflicted and partial being on wrong side of history in 66.
Ky had great players Butch Beard, Unseld, Clem Haskins and others. UK would have probably been ala UCLA in titles if not for dragging of feet.

I am UK fan and can accept it, just part of the deal. Some of you just can' accept the truth or history.
IMO
As always I applaud Jon Scott for answering your idiotic comments but folks like you keep banging the untruth and claim you are right. You are so wrong about so much. I'm sure you were a member of the SEC committee that set rules in 40s, 50s and 60s. Awwww you weren't, so how do know so much that's wrong?
Well said gakat. I don't like calling someone an idiot but do some research on a subject before you open your mouth and respond without knowing things, You sound like fans of other teams that only post what they have heard. Research is easy to do and before spreading lies you should do some research Realdeal.
 
Jan 29, 2003
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Mt. Rushmore of College Basketball Coaches: Wooden, Rupp, Knight, K.

It's like arguing about super-models (from different eras even!) - eye of the beholder.....
 

WildMoon

Heisman
Apr 7, 2009
78,693
11,120
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I would put Coach K ahead of Rupp

But the same reason Coach K is ahead of Rupp is the same reason if Coach Cal stays here long enough will be ahead of Coach K.
 

Lob2Davis

Sophomore
Mar 31, 2014
792
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Originally posted by Real Deal 2:

Does that make you feel better that Rupp did not push the issue. Rupp was Coach K. and Izzo in that respect. If he genuinely cared and wanted to change it than he would have, just like Bear Bryant and Darrell Royal. None changed until they got their asses beat by USC and Sam Bam Cunningham and Royal losing great black players to Oklahoma, Mich St. and Notre Dame and Big 10 schools. Just think this is an easy cop out for the apologists that SEC rule.

Rupp could have made a bigger statement and forced change just like Bear Bryant. The problem is not that it makes them racists or bigots but it makes the argument that they did everything they could to push the envelope for change so the label in that respect is something you have to live with if you are UK and that legacy. Makes no difference if Rupp was not a racists or whatever, just the way it fell in history and Rupp was on the wrong side of history.

Bear Bryant got another 10-13 years to recruit black players and this helped his legacy in terms of recruiting black athletes. If Rupp would have had that time than I am sure his legacy would have been framed differently.
IMO
You really don't know much. Rupp was pushing for the integration of the SEC as early as 1960, he was shot down. You mentioned Beard and Unseld in an earlier post. Rupp recruited them hard. He'd have given his right arm to get them. Beard actually tried to get out of his letter of intent and sign with UK because he thought he made a mistake but Louisville wouldn't let him out of it. Rupp was coaching black players in high school as early as the 1920's during that progressive era in race relations. You need to get educated.

Here's a youtube link to "Adolph Rupp - Myth, Legend and Fact" great documentary. You need to watch it. Everybody else in here would probably enjoy it, I'm sure lots have already seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBwlgV_AHSU
This post was edited on 4/3 10:33 PM by Lob2Davis