CLOSED - Chris Jones Kneed

[engie]

The measuring stick is that officers, who are so clearly at fault, actually going to prison. That's the problem though, white cop kills black man and he goes free. Its a tale as old as time and African Americans, rightly so, are sick of it. Even if it only happened 8 times in the last year, none of the eight officers involved were found guilty. That's some shady **** there.

You need to do a lot more digging. Several officers were convicted last year. Several were exonerated.

It seems to me that ultimately -- it's not the cops that you are upset with -- but the juries of all races and ethnicities found to be unbiased and neutral during the selection phase by both the prosecution and defense lawyers -- that you actually have the problem with. How are you going to "fix" that one?

To jump through the hoops to make all of that happen -- well -- you tell me...

Officers aren't just walking around looking to blast a black guy. How many officers were killed in the line of duty last year compared to your eight cases? How many were preventable -- by them having a slightly more itchy trigger finger? There is two sides to every coin.

However, if a black guy is what? several thousand percent? more likely to be blasted for virtually no reason by another black guy -- than they are of being blasted by a white cop -- which is ACTUALLY the systemic issue?

 

[ShrubDog]

The measuring stick is that officers, who are so clearly at fault, actually going to prison. That's the problem though, white cop kills black man and he goes free. Its a tale as old as time and African Americans, rightly so, are sick of it. Even if it only happened 8 times in the last year, none of the eight officers involved were found guilty. That's some shady **** there.

They are sick of 8 people killed by cops but not the thousands by the hands of others. This is an American issue. There is your measuring stick.

 

[KurtRambis4]

Can you

forward me these stories of all these cops going up to blacks and executing them with absolutely zero justification, and not being charged with it?

 

[TrueMaroonGrind]

How did the dough come out?******

 

[TimberBeast]

Longtime reader, but rarely post but I have to say something here. I applaud Chris Jones for his stance in kneeling and the most insulting thing fans can say is "stick to football". Basically they need to know their place. There is an issue with unarmed African Americans getting killed by police. It may not be as prevalent as the media makes it out to be but it is a very big problem. The fact that I can watch a man get shot in the back while running and the officer does not get convicted is all I need to see. I can listen to the Fernando Castille shooting and hear him and his girlfriend plead that he is not reaching and the cop still panics and shoots.

I'm not saying the cops are racist, but they are on edge around African Americans. The major issues we have about the shootings are the lack of convictions and people like the ones in this thread saying "comply comply comply". At the end of the day it's an issue of empathy, either you have it or you don't. When I see my people, people of color getting gunned down with no repurcussions it hurts, and then I see people celebrating the acquittals of the police. How am I supposed to feel about that. However when a Somali officer killed the Australian woman, the same people who say "comply comply comply" and back the cops at all cost are outraged, and rightfully so. The situations are the same although the victims aren't. You empathize with the Australian woman because she looks like your wife, your mother, your daughter, while the African American looks like your common street thug.

So reading this thread, the next time I'm invited to my supervisors house in an affluent white neighborhood, and the police follows me for 10 minutes, now I know he's not profiling me, he's just making sure I stay in my place and don't 17 up.

By your people, do you mean black criminals? Are you a black criminal? I'm white, but white criminals are not my people just because they are white. I'm not a white criminal. They are criminals, if they are dangerous or just keep committing crimes and end up getting shot, then good riddance. Black people have got to stop this mentality of being on team black. As far as I know white people, or at least any white people I know don't think like this. I don't understand why skin color is so important to black people.

 

[Atrain0311]

They are sick of 8 people killed by cops but not the thousands by the hands of others. This is an American issue. There is your measuring stick.

I keep seeing you guys say 8 people killed, it's over 100 so far in 2017. So if you're going to make an argument at least be somewhat accurate with your numbers.

 

[CoolDawg]

I keep seeing you guys say 8 people killed, it's over 100 so far in 2017. So if you're going to make an argument at least be somewhat accurate with your numbers.

ShurbDog brought up an interesting point. Why is it that black athletes specifically and black people in general show so little concern about the thousands of black on black murders that happen each year and the hundreds of thousands of black on black crimes committed each year? Why no concern for the huge number of black babies that are aborted each year? Why no concern for the large number of out of wedlock black babies born each year? Why no concern about the large number of black high school kids that drop out of school each year? Why no concern for the large number of blacks that get addicted each year to drugs?

 

[thatsbaseball]

I got a number for you. 350,000+ northern soldiers died fighting under our American flag to free "your people". Can "your people" not have at least enough respect to remember them properly during the National anthem ?

 

[Atrain0311]

ShurbDog brought up an interesting point. Why is it that black athletes specifically and black people in general show so little concern about the thousands of black on black murders that happen each year and the hundreds of thousands of black on black crimes committed each year? Why no concern for the huge number of black babies that are aborted each year? Why no concern for the large number of out of wedlock black babies born each year? Why no concern about the large number of black high school kids that drop out of school each year? Why no concern for the large number of blacks that get addicted each year to drugs?

There are concerns for these things. They are issues that are discussed daily among the black community. There are summits in Chicago, Baltimore, etc every few months calling for cease fires and other measures to reduce the violence. It's tough in those cities and the root of the problem is deeper then bad people doing bad things, a lot of the people feel they have no choice but to turn to a life in the drug game, which leads to turf wars, which leads to violence. Not condoning it as it's a sad situation, but until we have better funding in schools, better housing opportunities, less gentrification, and I could go on and on, I don't see that issue getting addressed so easily and is very complex. I came up in a poor family and I defied the odds, but I was also a straight A student so I had opportunities after high school. A lot of my family weren't so lucky. But I digress.

However that's not the point of the protests and I feel people try to change the topic when discussing the protest.The protests is to address systematic inequalities. Black on black crime is our problem that we have to deal with and it's a socioeconomic issue that no one seems to have the answers for. But it doesn't change the fact that discrimination is real and until addressed we will never feel as if we are equals in this country. Doesn't mean we don't love this country, but why is it so hard to think that maybe, we want it to be better for our kids.

And to further answer your question, numerous black athletes including Kap has donated to the causes you mentioned. The abortion issue is a totally different topic and in my opinion has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

 

[KurtRambis4]

So far, in 2017,

there have been 100s of innocent civilians executed by cops? Jesus, this country is a lot worse than I thought.

 

[Atrain0311]

I got a number for you. 350,000+ northern soldiers died fighting under our American flag to free "your people". Can "your people" not have at least enough respect to remember them properly during the National anthem ?

They fought to protect the rights of free speech. And if a peaceful protest is not excersising the rights those soldiers fought for then I don't know what it. And don't come at me with the military argument. I got a number for you, 21. That's how many years my Father spent in the Army, my sister spent 21 years in the Air Force, and my brother spent 21 years in the army as well including 7 total tours between Iraq and Afghanistan. So miss me with that ******** argument.

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

There are concerns for these things. They are issues that are discussed daily among the black community. There are summits in Chicago, Baltimore, etc every few months calling for cease fires and other measures to reduce the violence. It's tough in those cities and the root of the problem is deeper then bad people doing bad things, a lot of the people feel they have no choice but to turn to a life in the drug game, which leads to turf wars, which leads to violence. Not condoning it as it's a sad situation, but until we have better funding in schools, better housing opportunities, less gentrification, and I could go on and on, I don't see that issue getting addressed so easily and is very complex. I came up in a poor family and I defied the odds, but I was also a straight A student so I had opportunities after high school. A lot of my family weren't so lucky. But I digress.

However that's not the point of the protests and I feel people try to change the topic when discussing the protest.The protests is to address systematic inequalities. Black on black crime is our problem that we have to deal with and it's a socioeconomic issue that no one seems to have the answers for. But it doesn't change the fact that discrimination is real and until addressed we will never feel as if we are equals in this country. Doesn't mean we don't love this country, but why is it so hard to think that maybe, we want it to be better for our kids.

And to further answer your question, numerous black athletes including Kap has donated to the causes you mentioned. The abortion issue is a totally different topic and in my opinion has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

What inequalities?

 

[Fogdog]

"Ruined the game"? I went and saw the Titans play yesterday. By the second or third play of the game, judging from crowd enthusiasm, I don't think anyone remembered that the players weren't on the field for the anthem. That was an amazing game and it certainly wasn't ruined for many in the 69K+ that watched it live.

 

[Atrain0311]

there have been 100s of innocent civilians executed by cops? Jesus, this country is a lot worse than I thought.

And again you are missing or refusing to acknowledge the whole point, the anger doesn't just come from police brutality. It's more about the fact that the ones responsible are NEVER convicted and are defending no matter what. That is disheartening to see when you know there will be no consequences for their actions. And to further point out it's more than just police brutality. Also the criminal justice system and how numbers show that African Americans are given on average close to double the sentencing time as Caucasians for the same crimes, and same criminal background. Tell me how that is equality. I'm dying to know.

 

[amcdan2000]

One of these things that will go on because protestors can't give a solution to their protest or even identify the reason why they are doing it

 

[KurtRambis4]

You're the one

that brought it up. I'm just asking you to point me to the 100s of innocent civilians that have been executed by cops this year, as you stated.

I'm trying to educate myself.

If there are 100s (as you claim) of innocent people being executed by cops, I want to know about it so I do something to stop it.

 

[Atrain0311]

that brought it up. I'm just asking you to point me to the 100s of innocent civilians that have been executed by cops this year, as you stated.

I'm trying to educate myself.

If there are 100s (as you claim) of innocent people being executed by cops, I want to know about it so I do something to stop it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/

Not saying all are innocent, and I never said that. But here are the numbers per the Washington post who tracks police shootings every year.

 

[KurtRambis4]

That just

shows the # of people that have been shot by police since a certain time. Are you suggesting that ALL police shootings are not justifiable?

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Yes, black Americans are targeted more frequently by police violence, but it's also worth discussing that police abuse of power is a huge issue regardless of race. Yes it's a tough job, but "blue lives matter" is almost insulting. That slogan isn't some sort of anti-cop killer message, it's a direct response to "black lives matter" that police lives matter more just because they wear a uniform. I'm not a fan of BLM either, but this is worse.

If police were not as protected of a class from repercussions for poor behavior, you have to wonder if fewer potential bad cops would even apply? In other words there are absolutely some cops who are in the profession because of the power aspect rather than the service aspect. If that power to abuse could be removed, it might not be attractive to the people who would abuse it. Self-perpetuating solution that pays dividends beyond just putting boundaries in place. Difficult to problem to solve...

 

[mstateglfr]

that brought it up. I'm just asking you to point me to the 100s of innocent civilians that have been executed by cops this year, as you stated.

I'm trying to educate myself.

If there are 100s (as you claim) of innocent people being executed by cops, I want to know about it so I do something to stop it.

Aw Rambis comin in and adding qualifiers that werent there before to then prove a point and kill another thread!

 

[KurtRambis4]

Thanks

for your two cents, *****.

 

[TimberBeast]

shows the # of people that have been shot by police since a certain time. Are you suggesting that ALL police shootings are not justifiable?

No of course not ALL of them, just the ones that are his people.

 

[Bulldogg31]

And again you are missing or refusing to acknowledge the whole point, the anger doesn't just come from police brutality. It's more about the fact that the ones responsible are NEVER convicted and are defending no matter what. That is disheartening to see when you know there will be no consequences for their actions. And to further point out it's more than just police brutality. Also the criminal justice system and how numbers show that African Americans are given on average close to double the sentencing time as Caucasians for the same crimes, and same criminal background. Tell me how that is equality. I'm dying to know.

I appreciate your responses and the points you've made.

I think some questions many have is "what are the desired changes and how are the results to be measured?" Are new laws to be passed? What constitutes success for those kneeling and protesting? At what point do the protesters tell each other "good work, everyone" and call it a job well done?

 

[Atrain0311]

No of course not ALL of them, just the ones that are his people.

If you actually read my response and wasn't being a smartass you would see that I stated that not all are innocent.

 

[KurtRambis4]

Or more importantly, what

policies is he saying causes this? How do we change them?

Just shouting "INSTITUTIONAL RACISM!!1" is not effective.

 

[Atrain0311]

I appreciate your responses and the points you've made.

I think some questions many have is "what are the desired changes and how are the results to be measured?" Are new laws to be passed? What constitutes success for those kneeling and protesting? At what point do the protesters tell each other "good work, everyone" and call it a job well done?

To be honest no one has the perfect answer from either side and that's the most frustrating part. Nothing is ever black and white as I'm sure you all know. For me and from what I've read "success" will be defined as police being held accountable for wrongful deaths. When police unions do not blindfully protect the guilty because "blue lives matter". Once there are changes and accountability I can see people who are protesting looking at it as a positive step in the right direction. But the first step has to be accountability for the bad cops who are giving all the good cops a bad name. And preferably we would like to see the good cops step up and demand accountability instead of blindly defending the guilty.

 

[Bulldogg31]

To be honest no one has the perfect answer from either side and that's the most frustrating part. Nothing is ever black and white as I'm sure you all know. For me and from what I've read "success" will be defined as police being held accountable for wrongful deaths. When police unions do not blindfully protect the guilty because "blue lives matter". Once there are changes and accountability I can see people who are protesting looking at it as a positive step in the right direction. But the first step has to be accountability for the bad cops who are giving all the good cops a bad name. And preferably we would like to see the good cops step up and demand accountability instead of blindly defending the guilty.

I'd like to think that would happen but I don't believe that will be the case. There are unfortunately profiteers on both sides of this entity (and it is an entity at this point) that thrive on its very existence. To solve the problem would be to drain their lifeblood, therefore they will never be satisfied.

 

[Atrain0311]

I'd like to think that would happen but I don't believe that will be the case. There are unfortunately profiteers on both sides of this entity (and it is an entity at this point) that thrive on its very existence. To solve the problem would be to drain their lifeblood, therefore they will never be satisfied.

I agree 100%

 

[catvet]

But the same people saying that this is a free speech issue with athletes kneeling during the national anthem, would be the same ones in court trying to sue if these kneeling folks were praying at a HS football game. I'll go further. Some of the hypocrites saying the President should shut up, and it's none of his business were at the forefront of telling the NBA that Clippers owner Donald Sterling had to give up his team for his statements. I'm looking at the pious Stefan Curry and LeBron James. Apparently you can only have free speech if you agree with what was said.

In the Federal Government i.e. the Hatch Act prohibits you doing certain activities while being on the job. Folks lose their job all the time for stupid Facebook posts. So yes you have free speech but there are consequences. My point is, the NFL has a clause that says if you are disrespectful during the anthem you can be fined or released. They are not enforcing their own rules.

 

[mount lefroy]

"Imagined" systematic racism, more likely. We can play the statistics game back and forth on it all day -- but we aren't going to convince each other -- so that's pointless.

So, what's the measuring stick at the end of the tunnel that makes the protesters happy and ends the protest? What is the exact desired outcome? I have yet to see one -- and that's why the "protest" is a paper tiger. It's not affecting positive change. Quite the contrary. You don't change anyone's mind by pissing them off. And the methodology used pisses half the country off.

Everyone's heels are dug in. The only way this ends with a positive outcome for anyone is for both sides to step away from the ledge, take a deep breath, listen, and take some time for reflection. That's how concessions are made.

There once was a group near Selma Alabama that faced that same argument.

This isnt about WHAT they are protesting. It's about THAT they are. And every soldier that gave us a minute of his or her time to defend the constitution didnt give it up over the paper it was written on. They gave it up over the right to oppose it and change it or it's application.

Until every last single American who lives under the constitution understands that it stands for the right TO oppose it's very ideals, then Americans dont deserve what it provides.

Dear God, people. Soldiers dont die for flags, songs and statues.

To every player that had the courage to risk their career and show their feelings, I thank you. THAT is what I defended.

To anyone who would hide behind the idea that the players protest isnt something they like and that owners should hold back money because it doesnt help their marketability. 17 you.

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

There once was a group near Selma Alabama that faced that same argument.

This isnt about WHAT they are protesting. It's about THAT they are. And every soldier that gave us a minute of his or her time to defend the constitution didnt give it up over the paper it was written on. They gave it up over the right to oppose it and change it or it's application.

Until every last single American who lives under the constitution understands that it stands for the right TO oppose it's very ideals, then Americans dont deserve what it provides.

Dear God, people. Soldiers dont die for flags, songs and statues.

To every player that had the courage to risk their career and show their feelings, I thank you. THAT is what I defended.

To anyone who would hide behind the idea that the players protest isnt something they like and that owners should hold back money because it doesnt help their marketability. 17 you.

It's also a right for Americans to show their displeasure when a group protest against something they don't believe exist or is way overblown. If you don't understand that, 17 you. Dumbass

 

[johnson86-1]

And, yes, profiling is definitely real. But I'm not at all sure how much of that is based on skin color. Some certainly is. But I'd imagine it's a much smaller percentage than the airtime it gets. Profiling is generally founded in reality of experiences. And anyone that says they don't do it is a liar. Even attraction, which you have little to no physical control over IMO, is still profiling someone based on their appearance. If a policeman doesn't profile based on appearance and situational evidence, he is not going to be worth a **** as a policeman. That's a simple fact. Now, if he murders someone in cold blood -- he deserves to go to jail for all of his days. Period. And that has certainly happened.

At one point in my life, due to my own personal bad decisions I had made along the way, I got stuck driving a shitbox old car. The amount of times I got pulled over for ridiculous stuff in my suburb was crazy. With several tickets for said ridiculous stuff. To the point I felt like I knew all of the cops. Yes, I was a normal looking white guy being profiled on the car I drove in a fairly nice part of town. And that was fine by me outside of those moments when I was paying the $45 seat belt ticket when I wasn't even out of the AutoZone parking lot yet. I understand why and how that helped keep me safe as a resident. The times before and after said shitbox I've been able to get away with a lot more in nicer vehicles.

I think Kaepernick is a bad person for the pedestal in this deal. His entire life was lived in "white privilege". I doubt he's ever faced real profiling based on skin color in his life. And if he has, it's been subtle.

Tell the truth. Sometimes you make posts just to make Drebin's life easier when he has to come up with a new "Engie explains" shtick, don't you?

 

[RocketDawg]

Longtime reader, but rarely post but I have to say something here. I applaud Chris Jones for his stance in kneeling and the most insulting thing fans can say is "stick to football". Basically they need to know their place. There is an issue with unarmed African Americans getting killed by police. It may not be as prevalent as the media makes it out to be but it is a very big problem. The fact that I can watch a man get shot in the back while running and the officer does not get convicted is all I need to see. I can listen to the Fernando Castille shooting and hear him and his girlfriend plead that he is not reaching and the cop still panics and shoots.

I'm not saying the cops are racist, but they are on edge around African Americans. The major issues we have about the shootings are the lack of convictions and people like the ones in this thread saying "comply comply comply". At the end of the day it's an issue of empathy, either you have it or you don't. When I see my people, people of color getting gunned down with no repurcussions it hurts, and then I see people celebrating the acquittals of the police. How am I supposed to feel about that. However when a Somali officer killed the Australian woman, the same people who say "comply comply comply" and back the cops at all cost are outraged, and rightfully so. The situations are the same although the victims aren't. You empathize with the Australian woman because she looks like your wife, your mother, your daughter, while the African American looks like your common street thug.

So reading this thread, the next time I'm invited to my supervisors house in an affluent white neighborhood, and the police follows me for 10 minutes, now I know he's not profiling me, he's just making sure I stay in my place and don't 17 up.

Has that ever actually happened to you?

 

[engie]

There once was a group near Selma Alabama that faced that same argument.

This isnt about WHAT they are protesting. It's about THAT they are. And every soldier that gave us a minute of his or her time to defend the constitution didnt give it up over the paper it was written on. They gave it up over the right to oppose it and change it or it's application.

Until every last single American who lives under the constitution understands that it stands for the right TO oppose it's very ideals, then Americans dont deserve what it provides.

Dear God, people. Soldiers dont die for flags, songs and statues.

To every player that had the courage to risk their career and show their feelings, I thank you. THAT is what I defended.

To anyone who would hide behind the idea that the players protest isnt something they like and that owners should hold back money because it doesnt help their marketability. 17 you.

Show me where I commented on their "rights" of said protest? Oh, that's right -- you just went full retard about something that was never said. And it's funny that you support "their rights" to protest -- but "17 me" if I decide to counter protest. Just shut up.

 

[engie]

Tell the truth. Sometimes you make posts just to make Drebin's life easier when he has to come up with a new "Engie explains" shtick, don't you?

I think it's funny. Although my OM buddy is ready to sue for my fair compensation on the magazine profits*

 

[muddawgs]

They are protesting the rising number of cops getting away with senselessly killing unarmed African Americans. It has nothing to due with a "lack of unity" and has everything to do with the systematic racism inherent in law enforcement. Chris Jones gets this.

There in lies your problem. You say cops are killing black people for no reason. That's not true. Cops are put into very difficult situations and they never know the intentions of the people they are dealing with. And when you don't follow an officers order, then they believe your intentions are to hurt them. And if you don't show your hands or you start reaching for something, then it doesn't matter if you are black, white or orange, there's a good chance your *** is going to get shot. Are there bad cops? sure just like there are bad doctors or preachers. Is protesting going to weed them out? Nope, because there isn't a way to. One thing everyone needs to understand is that cops aren't dealing with the cream of the crop. They are dealing with people at their worst. But I guess with this line of thinking, we should ask all the black males to leave Jackson, MS, because every time I see a shooting homicide in Jackson, it's done by a black male.

 

[johnson86-1]

Longtime reader, but rarely post but I have to say something here. I applaud Chris Jones for his stance in kneeling and the most insulting thing fans can say is "stick to football". Basically they need to know their place. There is an issue with unarmed African Americans getting killed by police. It may not be as prevalent as the media makes it out to be but it is a very big problem. The fact that I can watch a man get shot in the back while running and the officer does not get convicted is all I need to see. I can listen to the Fernando Castille shooting and hear him and his girlfriend plead that he is not reaching and the cop still panics and shoots.

I'm not saying the cops are racist, but they are on edge around African Americans. The major issues we have about the shootings are the lack of convictions and people like the ones in this thread saying "comply comply comply". At the end of the day it's an issue of empathy, either you have it or you don't. When I see my people, people of color getting gunned down with no repurcussions it hurts, and then I see people celebrating the acquittals of the police. How am I supposed to feel about that. However when a Somali officer killed the Australian woman, the same people who say "comply comply comply" and back the cops at all cost are outraged, and rightfully so. The situations are the same although the victims aren't. You empathize with the Australian woman because she looks like your wife, your mother, your daughter, while the African American looks like your common street thug.

So reading this thread, the next time I'm invited to my supervisors house in an affluent white neighborhood, and the police follows me for 10 minutes, now I know he's not profiling me, he's just making sure I stay in my place and don't 17 up.

There are three major problems with these protests. One is that there is not a problem with cops killing a disproportionate number of blacks. The stats do show that blacks are more likely to be victims of non-fatal police brutality. But even if some of the protesters realize this is the case, they completely misrepresent the issue. If you're already criticizing a well respected group (police generally enjoy a lot of support on the right and from a lot of traditional democrats), you can't give people a reason to tune you out by misrepresenting the issue or being wrong about the facts if you want to be effective.

Two, they are picking quite possibly the dumbest tactic possible if they actually want to changethings for the better. They are drawing lots of attention to their issue, but it's mainly negative attention and they have done a terrible job of communicating any consistent message. If they wanted to actually persuade people who would otherwise be inclined to reflexively support the police, they should be heaping praise on things like the national anthem and appealing to the idealistic qualities our country is found on. How much more receptive would people be if they did something symbolic during the anthem but put a positive spin on it? It might not be the lightning rod for attention if it didn't outrage people, but it would possibly influence the people that were aware of it.
Third, they are nationalizing what is largely a local issue. Real police corruption is local. The worst, most corrupt police departments in the U.S. pretty much all have a local NFL team. Baltimore, Chicago, New York, etc. If players in those cities wanted to protest the lack of accountability for their local forces, that would make a lot more sense. They could also probably influence local elections where the people best equipped to address the problem are running for election. But instead they do something interpreted as disrespecting our armed services to air their grievances to people who have no input or influence on the problem. Just stupid.

There are real improvements that could be made in police accountability. I'm not sure NFL players really are good candidates to push for those improvements, but even if they're not, they could still avoid making the problem worse.

 

[Atrain0311]

Has that ever actually happened to you?

Yes, last year Memorial Day weekend.

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

Yes, last year Memorial Day weekend.

ive been followed by cops as well, one specifically I remember when driving in a "bad" area. Does that make the cop racist also? Or just when they do it to black people?

Or does it just make sense, for a cop to look for things out of the ordinary, things that standout? Or are cops just supposed to be completely objective and not act on anything deemed suspicious for fear of being labeled racist and stereotyping?

 

[mount lefroy]

"What is the exact desired outcome?"

THAT is where. This isnt about WHAT. And it isnt funny. I support their and your right to protest. That is the important thing here. Not what outcome happens. You want something measurable. Counter protest all you want. We fought for that too.

Just 17 off with this measuring stick ****. Your posts are great about sports, but you dont know **** about whyf the constitution is great. You are just one of the many that dont like the image of someone kneeling.

Kneelers were fought for too. ESPECIALLY kneelers.