As a person who admittedly is a casual fan but does not pay much attention to the every day dealings of the NFL, I’m just curious as to yalls thoughts on how they suck so bad. Don’t they get the top draft pick damn near every year. Was listening to Wingo and Golic this morning and they were discussing something about them trading their first round pick to get OBJ from the Giants. I just cannot figure out how a team who always gets one of the top picks can’t seem to be any better. Anybody with any thoughts on this?
Cleveland Browns
- Thread starter jack daniels dog
- Start date
Simply out .. NFL football is a 'team' sport and while one player can make a team better, they are playing against other way better teams. Cleveland has historically had poor management. Their QB position alone, is a study of futility that goes WAY back.
Poor management. Apple CEO John Sculley fired Steve Jobs and nearly bankrupt the company. Jobs came back and Apple now is closing in on a market cap of 1 Trillion dollars ....
After the Browns moved to Baltimore and the "new" Browns fired up in 1999, they could have made a push for Belichick. (Model fired Belichick a year after an11 win season where the Browns sucked because the announcement of moving to Baltimore kneecapped the team.) Instead they went with Chris Palmer.
A year later the Jets/Pat's fought for Bill and, well we know who won. Belichick is the Jobs of Cleveland if Jobs had landed at IBM in 1990.
After the Browns moved to Baltimore and the "new" Browns fired up in 1999, they could have made a push for Belichick. (Model fired Belichick a year after an11 win season where the Browns sucked because the announcement of moving to Baltimore kneecapped the team.) Instead they went with Chris Palmer.
A year later the Jets/Pat's fought for Bill and, well we know who won. Belichick is the Jobs of Cleveland if Jobs had landed at IBM in 1990.
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The only explanation is spectacularly bad management. The NFL is designed for parity and you’d expect them to improve slightly just by chance.
Coaches since bill belichick
chris palmer
butch davis
terry robiskie
romeo crennel
eric mangini
pat shurmur
rob chudzinski
mike pettine
hue jackson
it starts here and then it goes offensive/defensive line ...then you get talent
you can't develop **** when your qb is running scared for his life ...wont happen
see Chicago Cubs
chris palmer
butch davis
terry robiskie
romeo crennel
eric mangini
pat shurmur
rob chudzinski
mike pettine
hue jackson
it starts here and then it goes offensive/defensive line ...then you get talent
you can't develop **** when your qb is running scared for his life ...wont happen
see Chicago Cubs
One thing, they haven't had any stability at qb. This will be the best season they have had in a while.
It's truly mind boggling how they've managed to be so bad.
Like most things, it starts with the top down. Their owner is incompetent (lol @ UT), and he routinely fires coaches after 1-2 seasons. No matter what you're doing or how bad the coaching is, firing 4 consecutive coaches after 2 seasons max will lead you to 0-16 over and over again. If they had trusted the process they've likely still got this off-season's HC darling, Pat Schumer, running a pretty fun offense with a bunch of rookie contracts.
They've also gotten REALLY unlucky with all those 1st picks. Outside of their #1 this past year, they've largely all been busts in the last 3-4 cycles. Even when they've done the correct thing and traded down for more assets or picks, the guys chosen with their former pick end up being MVP caliber QB's. The only moment of brilliance they've had in the draft, ironically, is taking Trent Richardson and then waxing the Colts by trading him.
I think Haslem finally said "yeah, ok, I shouldn't fire coaches after 1 or 2 seasons anymore because my team is garbage" and that's why I thought it was smart not to fire Hue Jackson, even though he's by far the worst NFL coach by a wide margin. The Jags just proved you can have stability while employing technically the worst NFL coach in history of the league while shoring up your roster and then take a very, very untalented offense within a few yards of the Super Bowl. They're probably going to win a few games this year against some teams in the middle, but then I think they're probably on a path to being pretty solid in 2-3 years. The signs are there, although losing the best LT of his generation this off season isn't going to help.
EDIT: Important to remember that they're technically an expansion team that debuted right around the same time as the Texans, and the Texans haven't been much better during the same stretch.
Like most things, it starts with the top down. Their owner is incompetent (lol @ UT), and he routinely fires coaches after 1-2 seasons. No matter what you're doing or how bad the coaching is, firing 4 consecutive coaches after 2 seasons max will lead you to 0-16 over and over again. If they had trusted the process they've likely still got this off-season's HC darling, Pat Schumer, running a pretty fun offense with a bunch of rookie contracts.
They've also gotten REALLY unlucky with all those 1st picks. Outside of their #1 this past year, they've largely all been busts in the last 3-4 cycles. Even when they've done the correct thing and traded down for more assets or picks, the guys chosen with their former pick end up being MVP caliber QB's. The only moment of brilliance they've had in the draft, ironically, is taking Trent Richardson and then waxing the Colts by trading him.
I think Haslem finally said "yeah, ok, I shouldn't fire coaches after 1 or 2 seasons anymore because my team is garbage" and that's why I thought it was smart not to fire Hue Jackson, even though he's by far the worst NFL coach by a wide margin. The Jags just proved you can have stability while employing technically the worst NFL coach in history of the league while shoring up your roster and then take a very, very untalented offense within a few yards of the Super Bowl. They're probably going to win a few games this year against some teams in the middle, but then I think they're probably on a path to being pretty solid in 2-3 years. The signs are there, although losing the best LT of his generation this off season isn't going to help.
EDIT: Important to remember that they're technically an expansion team that debuted right around the same time as the Texans, and the Texans haven't been much better during the same stretch.
They're just a "low-rent" operation that operates in the black because of their NFL membership and really stupid fans. They are obviously happy with who they are.
This explains a lot of it. Since coaches started leaving Dallas under Jimmy Johnson, everybody has known that there is more value in the midrange picks, unless you are getting a franchise QB or maybe a truly elite pass rusher.
It does make it harder to get value for your trades, but if the browns had been patient and built up a team of midrange draft picks, they would have had a base from which to maybe launch some really good seasons.
Their starting QBs since '99 ..
| 1999 | Tim Couch <small>(14)</small> / Ty Detmer <small>(2)</small> |
| 2000 | Doug Pederson <small>(8)</small> / Tim Couch <small>(7)</small> / Spergon Wynn <small>(1)</small> |
| 2001 | Tim Couch <small>(16)</small> |
| 2002 | Tim Couch <small>(14)</small> / Kelly Holcomb <small>(2)</small> |
| 2003 | Kelly Holcomb <small>(8)</small> / Tim Couch <small>(8)</small> |
| 2004 | Jeff Garcia <small>(10)</small> / Kelly Holcomb <small>(2)</small> / Luke McCown <small>(4)</small> |
| 2005 | Trent Dilfer <small>(11)</small> / Charlie Frye <small>(5)</small> |
| 2006 | Charlie Frye <small>(13)</small> / Derek Anderson <small>(3)</small> |
| 2007 | Derek Anderson <small>(15)</small> / Charlie Frye <small>(1)</small> |
| 2008 | Derek Anderson <small>(9)</small> / Brady Quinn <small>(3)</small> / Ken Dorsey <small>(3)</small> / Bruce Gradkowski <small>(1)</small> |
| 2009 | Brady Quinn <small>(9)</small> / Derek Anderson <small>(7)</small> |
| 2010 | Colt McCoy <small>(8)</small> / Jake Delhomme <small>(4)</small> / Seneca Wallace <small>(4)</small> |
| 2011 | Colt McCoy <small>(13)</small> / Seneca Wallace <small>(3)</small> |
| 2012 | Brandon Weeden <small>(15)</small> / Thad Lewis <small>(1)</small> |
| 2013 | Jason Campbell <small>(8)</small> / Brandon Weeden <small>(5)</small> / Brian Hoyer <small>(3)</small> |
| 2014 | Brian Hoyer <small>(13)</small> / Johnny Manziel <small>(2)</small>/ Connor Shaw <small>(1)</small> |
| 2015 | Josh McCown <small>(8)</small> / Johnny Manziel <small>(6)</small> / Austin Davis <small>(2)</small> |
| 2016 | Robert Griffin III <small>(5)</small> / Josh McCown <small>(3)</small> / Cody Kessler <small>(8)</small> |
| 2017 | DeShone Kizer <small>(15)</small> / Kevin Hogan <small>(1)</small> |
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Starts at the very top with ownership. Good owners hire good coaches who draft good players and develop them. Good coaches don't want to work for bad owners.
This year’s draft seems so simple to me. Draft Barkley first and be set at running back for the next decade. Then take whichever quarterback is still available at 4. Is Darnold THAT much better than Allen or Rosen? Personally I like Rosen the best of the three but I’m not an NFL level talent evaluator. I know what I wouldn’t do, and that’s draft one of those quarterbacks first and risk someone trading up and sniping Barkley before I could get him at 4.
I think they’re about to turn it around. Exiting the draft, Cleveland should be in at least the top half of raw talent in the NFL.
I've seen Darnold play a few times. I'd rather have Rosen. He looks a lot better with a much worse supporting cast around him. With 1st round QBs, it's a crap shoot anyway. The miss rate on them is pretty high. Apparently, it's very hard to project a QB from college to the NFL.
To get another perspective look at the NFL business model based on revenue sharing where the last place NFL team gets the same TV revenue as the first place NFL team. Bad management and ownership can thrive in that sports socialism. Now look at the English Premier League and notice relegation as a solution to bad management and ownership. The bottom three are culled every year. Also, before the cull, television revenue is distributed based on merit, thus no equal revenue sharing. Remember, when you basically kick a team out of the league, you kick the owner out also, thus a healthier league happens because of not having K Mart owners in an upscale environment. Bottom line, function like the Cleveland Browns and pay the price for being the Cleveland Browns?
To me today's NFL is approx. 40% sports and 60% business/entertainment and has really started resembling the business model that professional wrestling has successfully used for many years. The legitimacy of competition is far less important than the cash flow. Lets face it, what is the real difference in a hard core pro wrestling fan and a die hard Brown's fan ?......Answer: The wrestling fan's IQ is probably about 20 pts higher than the Browns fan's.
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