Clark Gone

JTSHU

Senior
Feb 9, 2015
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That's a definitive yes from me. I would have offered Budd $2 million out of the gate, Hines $2.5 million, and Simpkins $500k in the hopes of landing all three for $6 million or less. Once we lost Hines, I would have been willing to push close to $3 million for Budd.

I've said this multiple times, but the market for replacement level players and scrubs is going to plummet once the big boy programs finish eating. The stars like Budd and Hines will get snapped up quickly, but a lot of kids will be left waiting for a spot at the big table. There's only so much money and so many roster spots to go around. That's when a budget school like Seton Hall can find great value on players.

Lock up the stars and wait for the market to bottom
I’m sure the job market is champing at the bit for a kid who went to four different schools in four years and got a 2.0GPA with a ******** undergrad degree in Sports Marketing 🤣🤣
Sports marketing is a business degree. Just more of a focus towards the sports industry. Its not a degree where u coast at all.
 

mbraue

Junior
Mar 2, 2010
152
224
43
Lock up the stars and wait for the market to bottom out.

The problem with this theory is that these so called stars also want to win & you're not doing that with a low budget supporting cast.

Lets say that hypothetically Budd was offered 2.5 Mil & he still bailed. Wouldn't you come to the conclusion he didn't want to be at Seton Hall?
Guys want to be on an NCAA tourney team. This is Budd's last year. He wants to dance. With Hines gone, what is that chance?
 
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Seton75

All-Conference
Jun 3, 2001
36,411
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If I gave my word on a deal, I wouldn't continue to shop the deal. That's being a scumbag. Don't agree to a deal if you are not done shopping.
Lots of good stories by salesman who were told yes then lost the deal. Good story, but no commission lol
 

Fishjam

All-Conference
Mar 27, 2016
695
2,417
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Garwey Dual moving from McNeese State to Syracuse. What’s the going rate for that level PG?
Garwey had a good year for a good McNeese State team that went 28-6 and made the NCAAT. Believe it or not, he's rated higher than Budd by the metrics. He's arguably the top-rated defensive PG and his offense was efficient.

Evan Miya has him as #34 rated 5-Star player in the Portal - Budd is #65. So I'd imagine that Garwey made quite a bit, roughly $2.0 M+ for a starting P4 PG.
 

dehere23

All-Conference
Feb 28, 2015
1,151
1,189
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Garwey had a good year for a good McNeese State team that went 28-6 and made the NCAAT. Believe it or not, he's rated higher than Budd by the metrics. He's arguably the top-rated defensive PG and his offense was efficient.

Evan Miya has him as #34 rated 5-Star player in the Portal - Budd is #65. So I'd imagine that Garwey made quite a bit, roughly $2.0 M+ for a starting P4 PG.
This is where the metrics can be deceiving IMO. Because I’d take Clark easily over Dual.

Only watched Mcnesee during the dance, and he looked just like the guy we saw the year before. Good defensively and very limited offensively.
 

Fishjam

All-Conference
Mar 27, 2016
695
2,417
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This is where the metrics can be deceiving IMO. Because I’d take Clark easily over Dual.

Only watched Mcnesee during the dance, and he looked just like the guy we saw the year before. Good defensively and very limited offensively.
Yes, Metrics can be deceiving. They tell a story. But there is no perfect stat that can tell the WHOLE story.

Both players have great defensive value but as very different types of defenders. Garwey has elite length which is extremely difficult to deal with for other guards. He is top 1% of guards in Steals + Blocks. Budd's value is that he is very low to the floor and quick which allows him to stick to guards like glue and use his quickness to get steals. The metrics paint them both as great defenders and they both are.

Offensively, Budd is a much more dynamic player who can run an offense and handle high usage. He can play a lead guard role and rack up a high volume of points and assists. But what comes with that are some low percentage shots and TOs. He can't shoot the 3 and has never had a KP O-Rating better than 101.6.

Garwey has limited offensive skill, doesn't take a lot of shots and will never be a lead guard. He has to play alongside other guards who can take the scoring responsibility. What the Metrics like about Dual is he plays within himself and has decent efficiency on low volume/low usage. His KP O-Rating was 112.5, his eFG% 49.8%
 

Piratz

All-Conference
Mar 24, 2004
1,378
2,747
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Yes, Metrics can be deceiving. They tell a story. But there is no perfect stat that can tell the WHOLE story.

Both players have great defensive value but as very different types of defenders. Garwey has elite length which is extremely difficult to deal with for other guards. He is top 1% of guards in Steals + Blocks. Budd's value is that he is very low to the floor and quick which allows him to stick to guards like glue and use his quickness to get steals. The metrics paint them both as great defenders and they both are.

Offensively, Budd is a much more dynamic player who can run an offense and handle high usage. He can play a lead guard role and rack up a high volume of points and assists. But what comes with that are some low percentage shots and TOs. He can't shoot the 3 and has never had a KP O-Rating better than 101.6.

Garwey has limited offensive skill, doesn't take a lot of shots and will never be a lead guard. He has to play alongside other guards who can take the scoring responsibility. What the Metrics like about Dual is he plays within himself and has decent efficiency on low volume/low usage. His KP O-Rating was 112.5, his eFG% 49.8%
One is a playmaker, one is not. Both good defenders for different reasons too; Clark is a pesky on-ball defender, Dual is a big guard, who is long and strong.

Clark is a much better fit for us than Dual was.
 

Seton75

All-Conference
Jun 3, 2001
36,411
2,567
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Garwey had a good year for a good McNeese State team that went 28-6 and made the NCAAT. Believe it or not, he's rated higher than Budd by the metrics. He's arguably the top-rated defensive PG and his offense was efficient.

Evan Miya has him as #34 rated 5-Star player in the Portal - Budd is #65. So I'd imagine that Garwey made quite a bit, roughly $2.0 M+ for a starting P4 PG.
Was hoping he came back.
 

mbraue

Junior
Mar 2, 2010
152
224
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Garwey had a good year for a good McNeese State team that went 28-6 and made the NCAAT. Believe it or not, he's rated higher than Budd by the metrics. He's arguably the top-rated defensive PG and his offense was efficient.

Evan Miya has him as #34 rated 5-Star player in the Portal - Budd is #65. So I'd imagine that Garwey made quite a bit, roughly $2.0 M+ for a starting P4 PG.
After the shoulder surgery, he really improved. I would have liked him back. Played hard and reminded me of a poor man's Richmond.
 
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Maybe it’s not about matching at this point.

my guess is SHU made their offer based on what they thought his value was relative to their projected budget.

His agent has him convinced that his open market value is higher than that offer.

The only way to realize that pay day is to enter the portal and find out. He may not have a specific offer on the table from someone else currently.

This makes sense. He also has the option to return if he can't shop offers better than ours. I have noticed that Carino considers them "gone" once they enter the portal.