Chinander has been fired

[anon1765477286]

Coach Joseph made a head coaching move. He felt, not having Chinander around for the rest of the way was best for the team. I thought it was a bit of a clue when he took the blackshirts away last week.

I suspect more players are on board with this decision than most of us realize. Coach Joseph is a players coach, has a much better feel for the players than any of us on this board do. Would be willing to bet, he has majority player support (not that he asked or needed it).

It's a desperate move but to me, has little downside. Time will tell. Good move by Coach Joseph for his career even if he can't turn it around. Guarantee you he had TA's 100% support for this move.

 

[dand84]

We don’t have a defense, firing the DC isn’t relevant. Chins had 5 years to make an impact. Didn’t get it done.

 

[dinglefritz]

This would take too long to type out.. I'll try the short version, but most people's comments here already tell me they don't understand.

Chins defense has played well as a unit the past couple of years, and with upperclassmen on the roster, who all left last year. You have a roster full of young guys.

He plays the scheme Frost wanted, which is an attacking defense, but this year, he played more zone coverage the first 3 games because why? we didn't know why, but we got ate up on the run game.. Chins knew something.

MJ tells him to run Man coverage against OU, if we get beat deep, we get beat, but at least we can stop the run game. The kids had 4 days to prepare for this change, the first half we tried it, and got boat raced.

The second half, we went back to playing zone coverage, but the game was already over at that point.

So 'trying something different' just created a worse situation, but I don't fault them for trying.

Now you have fired the guy that was holding it together on a thread, the defense is going to completely fall apart. I will be surprised if we win a single game from here on out, and it won't even be close anymore.

Basically, you made the guy make the change he was worried about, and it got worse, he goes back to what he thought was the best way they could play it, and the points stop accumulating, and then you fire him for making the change you forced him to make in the first place.

If you want to fault him for recruiting, then maybe I can be on board with that, but that guy had demonstrated his units played well together and improved, all while for years Frosts offense sucked, and just look at the comments here blaming Chins for the whole problem.. the stupidity of the comments in this thread blow me away.

Good heavens. Did you even watch the OU game? It was a ludicrous defensive game plan.

 

[WHCSC]

it's not love for Chins.. quit being dumb.

now you don't have a defensive coordinator.. wtf is so hard to understand?

you have a special teams guy who is going to try to coach up your d?

how does that make the head coaches job easier??

if you can't understand this, nothing I can say will help you.

This season is lost no matter what

 

[dinglefritz]

I think a lot goes into the day to day role of the defensive coordinator. He was also familiar to the players in that role. Even if he wasn’t performing well, he was still a coach. I think this just destabilizes our program more, and we can’t actually replace him with anyone good because it is September and Joseph’s hopes of taking over are hanging by a thread.

But the mob is momentarily appeased, so there is that.

His defensive scheme and calls made zero sense. He HAD to go. The problem is that there’s some question if Busch or anybody else can fix the mess he left in time

 

[Sporty]

If Mickey as acting head coach did not trust Chin as his DC he absolutely needed to send him packing. To do otherwise would not be doing the job to which he is assigned for the time being!

 

[tro80]

If the defense does nothing but pratice tackling to the ground, tackling in open field with speed and pursuing the ball to the whistle for the next two weeks, they will be better than what we have now. You can't change the scheme, but you can change how you practice, expectations and accountability. Focus first on the behavior (technique, speed, go hard to the whistle even if it seems pointless to do so where you are). Demonstrate what is expected and consistently demand that behavior. Shape the behavior by reward and consequence. The attitude and internalization of that behavior will follow in time if you consistently demand the behavior.

And I hope MJ has it in him to sit those guys who can't/won't follow such instruction. Once again the program finds itself at point where a culture change is needed to save the program. At the end of the day, SF didn't have it in him to carry that through. It isn't going to happen by continuing to play the same guys who do the same things that haven't been successful for four (or more) years.

 

[dinglefritz]

If the defense does nothing but pratice tackling to the ground, tackling in open field with speed and pursuing the ball to the whistle for the next two weeks, they will be better than what we have now. You can't change the scheme, but you can change how you practice, expectations and accountability. Focus first on the behavior (technique, speed, go hard to the whistle even if it seems pointless to do so where you are). Demonstrate what is expected and consistently demand that behavior. Shape the behavior by reward and consequence. The attitude and internalization of that behavior will follow in time if you consistently demand the behavior.

And I hope MJ has it in him to sit those guys who can't/won't follow such instruction. Once again the program finds itself at point where a culture change is needed to save the program. At the end of the day, SF didn't have it in him to carry that through. It isn't going to happen by continuing to play the same guys who do the same things that haven't been successful for four (or more) years.

You can not line the guys up in the same manner in the same down and distance situations as Chin did and expect it to work. I’ve never seen ANYONE try to play with the fronts that Chin was calling Saturday. Insane.

 

[HuskerDana_rivals188993]

His defensive scheme and calls made zero sense. He HAD to go. The problem is that there’s some question if Busch or anybody else can fix the mess he left in time

....but you almost HAVE to make a move to try and see if someone can fix it. Our problem is, under Chinander, players were not even making BASIC reads at times.

So, questioning anyone's knowledge of the game that called for a Chinander to be fired is ridiculous.

 

[JabroniBlvd]

Imagine watching Farmer not tackle for 3 years and continue to play him. He isn't the only reason but my goodness he is BAD.

 

[gw2kpro]

I'm not a conspiracy guy. At all.

But it's not too hard to imagine a scenario where this season was completely tanked in order to get the "early firing bonus" of an extra 7 million on the way out the door by a guy (and his best friend) who knew he was going to get canned anyway.

That's a lot of money.

The defense has never been "great" during the previous 4 seasons, but it's not even recognizable this season as something that should be on a college football field.

 

[Red_Symptoms]

Now you have fired the guy that was holding it together on a thread, the defense is going to completely fall apart. I will be surprised if we win a single game from here on out, and it won't even be close anymore.

Northwestern ran it something around 14 times to close out a game, after moving it at will for the most part, and NW is a bad team. Then struggled at times against North Dakota, gave up 642 yards to a Sun Belt school that then lost to UAB.

The thread was broken before the season started; I don't know you can objectively look at our first 3 games and at any point could think 1.) This defense is holding it together and 2.) we are winning many games and blame MJ for wanting to make some changes.

 

[Mack In Motion]

I'm not a conspiracy guy. At all.

But it's not too hard to imagine a scenario where this season was completely tanked in order to get the "early firing bonus" of an extra 7 million on the way out the door by a guy (and his best friend) who knew he was going to get canned anyway.

That's a lot of money.

The defense has never been "great" during the previous 4 seasons, but it's not even recognizable this season as something that should be on a college football field.

Most plausible explanation to date on how you go from year over year consistently "middle of the pack" defense to completely falling off the face of the earth -- possibly the worst defense in the country this season -- at the exact time we were needing some stability from that side of the ball with new offensive staff / personnel / schemes.

 

[dinglefritz]

Imagine watching Farmer not tackle for 3 years and continue to play him. He isn't the only reason but my goodness he is BAD.

A more pressing issue in my opinion is getting your players in position to make a tackle. Gabriel wasn’t touched on that QB draw TD. That happened time after time on their chunk plays. Missed tackles are usually the result of not being where you need to be and having to reach

 

[JabroniBlvd]

A more pressing issue in my opinion is getting your players in position to make a tackle. Gabriel wasn’t touched on that QB draw TD. That happened time after time on their chunk plays. Missed tackles are usually the result of not being where you need to be and having to reach

Playing the safeties 20 yards off the ball every single play was a bad idea? who knew

 

[HuskerDana_rivals188993]

A more pressing issue in my opinion is getting your players in position to make a tackle. Gabriel wasn’t touched on that QB draw TD. That happened time after time on their chunk plays. Missed tackles are usually the result of not being where you need to be and having to reach

Bingo. To further add to this, did our backers go from serviceable to completely unable to make a simple read in front of them or is that because they don't trust what they are seeing or what they are being taught? I think you AT THE VERY LEAST, have to find out if it is the latter.

 

[JabroniBlvd]

Bingo. To further add to this, did our backers go from serviceable to completely unable to make a simple read in front of them or is that because they don't trust what they are seeing or what they are being taught? I think you AT THE VERY LEAST, have to find out if it is the latter.

Part of it is that Daniels and Stille didn't get mauled every play.

 

[HuskerDana_rivals188993]

Part of it is that Daniels and Stille didn't get mauled every play.

....and yes....this is true. There is certainly plenty of blame to go around.

 

[bmb81664]

This is exactly my perception of things now.

He had a somewhat manageable situation and made things worse in my opinion.

There was some speculation that there was some division between chins and mj in regard to the edge rusher recruit spot, and mj's recruit went elsewhere while chins got his recruit instead.. that kid has now decommitted.

This was all sipple's wondering if that has something to do with it.

So we are going to drop from 128 to 131 in total D now? What's MJ got to lose at this point?

 

[phoenix4nu]

I looked at the participation level for the game, and sometimes the numbers are not totally correct, but I'll use what they show.

I lost interest before halftime, but did watch the whole game. Because of the blowout, it looked like NU was substituting liberally, turns out, on defense, that was not true.

On defense, NU played 21 kids. So they went 2 deep. NU only played 6 DB's.

NU has 21 DB's on the roster. Some are likely banged up, but these are some of the DB's that didn't play in the 5 touchdown loss:
Singleton, Brown, Tyreke, Martin, Kaine Williams, Pola-Gates, Brandon Moore, and 8 more DB's.

Are they injured? Are these kids in the doghouse? Do they dog it at practice or have academic issues? Don't they know the coverage(s)? How can so many of them be mistakes that can't even make the field in a blowout at halftime?

NU has allowed 528/306/652/580 yards in their 4 games this season. It looks like allowing 400-600 yards a game will be the norm going forward. Would retaining Chinander have lowered that number? I doubt it.

Saturday, OU could have easily totalled 750-800 yards had they left the dogs in for awhile longer. The defense has become a complete "no contest" for opposing offenses. Combine that with the lack of playing more kids on defense and I don't see where losing the DC is going to make any difference.

NU is horrible at all 3 levels of defense. If NU had even 1 level playing great defense they would have a small chance. NU's DL can't match up with any OL's, the LB's can't make tackles and the DB's are a sieve on pass defense in addition to being unable to tackle.

Teddy goes down on offense leaving the ole' brothers (Corcoran and Benhart) at OT's. Allen goes down but Ervin will fill in just fine. We see CT will crumble when pressured.

We may get to see the worst that we've seen in history of this program. Now we likely have every coach on the staff dusting off their resume's and players who may make a mass exit to the transfer portal.

Until a complete overhaul happens, this program is on its death bed.

Thought I saw Singleton miss a tackle.

 

[dinglefritz]

Part of it is that Daniels and Stille didn't get mauled every play.

we obviously haven't replaced the guys we lost. The question I have is IF the players loved Chinander and Frost so much, why in the hell did Jordan Riley and Casey Rogers follow Tuioti to Oregon? Those two guys aren't NFL guys but they sure as hell would have helped us this fall. They saw the hand writing on the wall just like their position coach did and they got the hell out of dodge when they had the chance.

 

[HuskerDana_rivals188993]

we obviously haven't replaced the guys we lost. The question I have is IF the players loved Chinander and Frost so much, why in the hell did Jordan Riley and Casey Rogers follow Tuioti to Oregon? Those two guys aren't NFL guys but they sure as hell would have helped us this fall. They saw the hand writing on the wall just like their position coach did and they got the hell out of dodge when they had the chance.

Another great point, dingle.

 

[JabroniBlvd]

we obviously haven't replaced the guys we lost. The question I have is IF the players loved Chinander and Frost so much, why in the hell did Jordan Riley and Casey Rogers follow Tuioti to Oregon? Those two guys aren't NFL guys but they sure as hell would have helped us this fall. They saw the hand writing on the wall just like their position coach did and they got the hell out of dodge when they had the chance.

Position coaches matter more to most kids than HCs....Riley surprised me since he didn't even really play but Rogers made sense. He also put a little NIL into his pocket shopping around.

It's possible maybe they saw the train wreck but I doubt it fully.

 

[HuskerDana_rivals188993]

A more pressing issue in my opinion is getting your players in position to make a tackle. Gabriel wasn’t touched on that QB draw TD. That happened time after time on their chunk plays. Missed tackles are usually the result of not being where you need to be and having to reach

I feel like I am over quoting @dinglefritz and adding to it way to much today. Sorry, dingle....here I go again.

So, also...if we were not tackling (or at least wrapping up in practice, why the hell weren't the defensive players well versed in what they are seeing in front of them?!?! The problem is that not ONLY are they poor at tackling, they also are not reading very well.

There was absolutely NOTHING to build upon with Chinander. Period. MJ made a much smarter move than some of you are giving him credit for.

 

[dinglefritz]

Position coaches matter more to most kids than HCs....Riley surprised me since he didn't even really play but Rogers made sense. He also put a little NIL into his pocket shopping around.

It's possible maybe they saw the train wreck but I doubt it fully.

The NIL for Rogers is a good point. I suspect he was probably tired of losing too.

 

[itseasyas1-2-3]

Thought I saw Singleton miss a tackle.

I seen that too. Like I said, those participation charts are not very reliable. I can only use what's available. LOL

 

[oldjar07]

Coach Joseph made a head coaching move. He felt, not having Chinander around for the rest of the way was best for the team. I thought it was a bit of a clue when he took the blackshirts away last week.

I suspect more players are on board with this decision than most of us realize. Coach Joseph is a players coach, has a much better feel for the players than any of us on this board do. Would be willing to bet, he has majority player support (not that he asked or needed it).

It's a desperate move but to me, has little downside. Time will tell. Good move by Coach Joseph for his career even if he can't turn it around. Guarantee you he had TA's 100% support for this move.

Frost was also a player's coach. Doesn't always turn out so well.

 

[dand84]

Frost was also a player's coach. Doesn't always turn out so well.

Hmmm…was he though? Almost from the moment he arrived, the players seemed to split into 2 camps. I don’t think that has changed in 5 years.

 

[dinglefritz]

I feel like I am over quoting @dinglefritz and adding to it way to much today. Sorry, dingle....here I go again.

So, also...if we were not tackling (or at least wrapping up in practice, why the hell weren't the defensive players well versed in what they are seeing in front of them?!?! The problem is that not ONLY are they poor at tackling, they also are not reading very well.

There was absolutely NOTHING to build upon with Chinander. Period.

I've heard multiple former Blackshirt/NFL players question Chinander's scheme. Carriker etal said that Chinander was expecting things to do things that were virtually impossible to execute. What he was calling on the front end wasn't compatible or logical with what he was calling on the back end. Another guy made the point that we're too small in our front 7 especially at DT. I was shocked at how small Tannor and Mathis looked Saturday. So we were playing 2 DTs on one side of the center and expecting Reimer and Tannor to stand up to the run on the other side. Ludicrous. That former Blackshirt said IF we should be stunting and blitzing our brains out to try to compensate for our lack of size.

 

[oldjar07]

Hmmm…was he though? Almost from the moment he arrived, the players seemed to split into 2 camps. I don’t think that has changed in 5 years.

Yes he was a player's coach. That was a large part of the problem is he would make decisions to appease the players. Without realizing it, those decisions often actually hurt the players more than anything. Easy practices, music, touch instead of tackle. Those are all things that make the players lives easier in the moment but don't make them better football players. And then he'd give guys 3rd or 4th or 5th chances, and without realizing it, he was alienating the rest of the players.

 

[BuckysBoys1]

Why would he try to lose games? He was auditioning for his next job.

Got Frost an extra 7.5 million. Probably sipping drinks together in Margaritavill.

 

[HuskerDana_rivals188993]

I've heard multiple former Blackshirt/NFL players question Chinander's scheme. Carriker etal said that Chinander was expecting things to do things that were virtually impossible to execute. What he was calling on the front end wasn't compatible or logical with what he was calling on the back end. Another guy made the point that we're too small in our front 7 especially at DT. I was shocked at how small Tannor and Mathis looked Saturday. So we were playing 2 DTs on one side of the center and expecting Reimer and Tannor to stand up to the run on the other side. Ludicrous. That former Blackshirt said IF we should be stunting and blitzing our brains out to try to compensate for our lack of size.

....it could be plausible that I have been bagging on Heinrich and Reimer for very little reason. IF Chinander had some stupid responsibilities laid out up front, MAYBE they were not even reading the G pulling and the C doubling. If that is the case, Chin is even worse at scheming than what has shown out.

That being said, it would be the most asinine keys given to players that I have ever seen.

 

[NikkiSixx_rivals269993]

So we are going to drop from 128 to 131 in total D now? What's MJ got to lose at this point?

The games going forward most likely will not be close now.. they will likely all be blowouts from here on out. If you're trying to win games, seems like you may have just hurt your chances. The defensive ranking is irrelevant.

 

[NikkiSixx_rivals269993]

Northwestern ran it something around 14 times to close out a game, after moving it at will for the most part, and NW is a bad team. Then struggled at times against North Dakota, gave up 642 yards to a Sun Belt school that then lost to UAB.

The thread was broken before the season started; I don't know you can objectively look at our first 3 games and at any point could think 1.) This defense is holding it together and 2.) we are winning many games and blame MJ for wanting to make some changes.

See the post directly above this one.

we still had a chance to win that Northwestern game. It was only a 3 point loss.

 

[bshirt73]

We’re lacking talent there but Chin’ s schemes and calls put our players in horrible almost unwinnable positions. Ludicrous defensive schemes.

special teams have been much improved

Yes sir.....it seems to me that our special teams are the one and only improvement we've seen. Nothing terrific but still wayyyy better than the last four years or so.