We had the ball for 40 mins last Saturday and couldn't wear northwestern down. Could it be that our lineman were just as tired as the defense???
Did anyone ask cav this question?
Cavanaugh needs to go
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We had the ball for 40 mins last Saturday and couldn't wear northwestern down. Could it be that our lineman were just as tired as the defense???
Did anyone ask cav this question?
Most colleges don't rotate either. He puts in the backups and they get rocked then what are you going to say? Rotation isn't going to save the day. Someone slap for responding to someone with 5 posts.
How do the OL play in practice? Is there rotation going around to build up the OL, or is it mostly 1s on the field going against the practice squad 80% of the time, with the 2s and 3s standing around?
Rotation or not, I would like to think there's backups getting quality reps to help build and develop toward the future.
Rotation or not, I would like to think there's backups getting quality reps to help build and develop toward the future.
You might want to listen to Aaron Taylor's thoughts about how they rotated during his time. He disagrees with you.
Although I'm not real pleased with how our OLine is performing, a review of Cavanaugh's results at Oregon State would suggest that the guy knows what he is doing. Think about this...in ten seasons at Oregon State, he had 23 All Conference players. Think about that for a second. That's an average of nearly half an OLine (2.3 players) a year on All Conference teams.
I think when we start questioning these coaches (I've definitely questioned Cavanaugh) that's when we need to go to Huskers.com and read through their Bios again.
In the last few days it's been documented that our talent, despite having the best collective recruiting classes over the last 4 years of all the West Division teams, has very similar talent in the 2-deep as compared to all the other West teams. I think we all need to realize that the cupboards are pretty bare for these coaches, and we need to give them a chance to coach with more talent and depth.
The bios of the coaches of the units (OLine, DB, RB) that have struggled...
Mike Cavanaugh (OLine)
"Cavanaugh's players at Oregon State were regularly honored for their efforts. Andy Levitre, Jeremy Perry and Isaac Seumalo each garnered All-America honors under Cavanaugh, while 23 of his players earned all-conference honors in the past decade.
The offensive line play for Oregon State has allowed the Beavers to have success both running and passing the football. In 2013, Oregon State ranked third nationally in passing offense by averaging nearly 375 yards per game. On the ground, Oregon State featured a 1,000-yard rusher in each of Cavanaugh’s first six seasons in Corvallis.
Cavanaugh was also a key part in directing some of the nation’s top offenses at Hawaii, while tutoring the offensive line from 1999 to 2004. In each of his final four seasons with the Warriors, Hawaii ranked in the top 20 nationally in total offense, including second in 2002. Hawaii featured a potent passing attack, largely due to Cavanaugh's lines allowing just one sack on every 26 attempts."
Brian Stewart (DBs)
"Defensive back Will Likely was a standout under Stewart’s guidance, leading the Big Ten in interceptions in 2014 en route to first-team all-conference honors. In Stewart’s first year at Maryland in 2012, his defense finished in the top three in the ACC in total defense, rushing defense and pass defense and was 21st nationally in total defense.
Stewart re-joined the college ranks as the defensive coordinator at the University of Houston in 2010 and 2011. Stewart’s stingy defense played a key role in the Cougars’ 13-1 record and No. 14 final national ranking in 2011.
He spent the previous eight years in the NFL, including a two-year stint as the Dallas Cowboys defensive coordinator in 2007 and 2008. As the Cowboys’ defense coordinator, Stewart guided Dallas to two top-10 rankings in fewest yards allowed. He helped the Cowboys to a 13-3 record and NFC East divisional title in 2007.
Stewart also served as an assistant coach with the Philadelphia Eagles (2009), San Diego Chargers (2004-06) and the Houston Texas (2002-03). Each of the teams Stewart coached in his final six NFL seasons won at least nine games, including three division champions and four playoff teams. During his time in the NFL, Stewart helped 14 players make Pro Bowl appearances."
Reggie Davis (RBs)
"While on Riley’s staff at Oregon State, Reggie Davis helped the Beaver running backs to great success. Davis coaches OSU standout Jacquizz Rodgers who set numerous OSU rushing records in his time in Corvallis on his way to the National Football League. Rodgers became the first freshman in the history to the Pac-10 Conference to earn its Offensive MVP award in 2008, after rushing for 1,253 yards."
I think when we start questioning these coaches (I've definitely questioned Cavanaugh) that's when we need to go to Huskers.com and read through their Bios again.
In the last few days it's been documented that our talent, despite having the best collective recruiting classes over the last 4 years of all the West Division teams, has very similar talent in the 2-deep as compared to all the other West teams. I think we all need to realize that the cupboards are pretty bare for these coaches, and we need to give them a chance to coach with more talent and depth.
The bios of the coaches of the units (OLine, DB, RB) that have struggled...
Mike Cavanaugh (OLine)
"Cavanaugh's players at Oregon State were regularly honored for their efforts. Andy Levitre, Jeremy Perry and Isaac Seumalo each garnered All-America honors under Cavanaugh, while 23 of his players earned all-conference honors in the past decade.
The offensive line play for Oregon State has allowed the Beavers to have success both running and passing the football. In 2013, Oregon State ranked third nationally in passing offense by averaging nearly 375 yards per game. On the ground, Oregon State featured a 1,000-yard rusher in each of Cavanaugh’s first six seasons in Corvallis.
Cavanaugh was also a key part in directing some of the nation’s top offenses at Hawaii, while tutoring the offensive line from 1999 to 2004. In each of his final four seasons with the Warriors, Hawaii ranked in the top 20 nationally in total offense, including second in 2002. Hawaii featured a potent passing attack, largely due to Cavanaugh's lines allowing just one sack on every 26 attempts."
Brian Stewart (DBs)
"Defensive back Will Likely was a standout under Stewart’s guidance, leading the Big Ten in interceptions in 2014 en route to first-team all-conference honors. In Stewart’s first year at Maryland in 2012, his defense finished in the top three in the ACC in total defense, rushing defense and pass defense and was 21st nationally in total defense.
Stewart re-joined the college ranks as the defensive coordinator at the University of Houston in 2010 and 2011. Stewart’s stingy defense played a key role in the Cougars’ 13-1 record and No. 14 final national ranking in 2011.
He spent the previous eight years in the NFL, including a two-year stint as the Dallas Cowboys defensive coordinator in 2007 and 2008. As the Cowboys’ defense coordinator, Stewart guided Dallas to two top-10 rankings in fewest yards allowed. He helped the Cowboys to a 13-3 record and NFC East divisional title in 2007.
Stewart also served as an assistant coach with the Philadelphia Eagles (2009), San Diego Chargers (2004-06) and the Houston Texas (2002-03). Each of the teams Stewart coached in his final six NFL seasons won at least nine games, including three division champions and four playoff teams. During his time in the NFL, Stewart helped 14 players make Pro Bowl appearances."
Reggie Davis (RBs)
"While on Riley’s staff at Oregon State, Reggie Davis helped the Beaver running backs to great success. Davis coaches OSU standout Jacquizz Rodgers who set numerous OSU rushing records in his time in Corvallis on his way to the National Football League. Rodgers became the first freshman in the history to the Pac-10 Conference to earn its Offensive MVP award in 2008, after rushing for 1,253 yards."
And you know this how?? You been to practices, watched game films (there are none to watch FYI)?? Trust the people that are around them everyday and are paid to win.
Exactly the opposite......the recruits are seeing the fact that we have a total of 5 offensive linemen on the roster, thus there are at a minimum 3 starting positions and 5 easy openings for 2nd string for true freshmen next year. That is 8 spots available in the 2 deep. This could be a great recruiting tool. How many freshmen come into a team almost guaranteed to be in the 2 deep from day one?
Where exactly in my post does it indicate I KNOW? It says "Could". Work on reading comprehension or don't post until you are a little more awake.
Calm down there my friend. A lot of teams aren't quick to rotate on the OL.
If I had my guess I would say that this staff is probably pretty happy to be able to run the ball for 180 ypg considering what they did at Oregon State. Over the last 7 years at Oregon State they have been no where near that number. So I am guessing that is why they are staying with only 5 on the line. Here are the last 7 years of rushing yards per game for Oregon State:
2014 118 ypg
2013 94 ypg
2012 124 ypg
2011 87 ypg
2010 120 ypg
2009 140 ypg
2008 158 ypg
Don't hold your breath waiting for this staff to figure out how to run the ball, it is not what they believe in.
2014 118 ypg
2013 94 ypg
2012 124 ypg
2011 87 ypg
2010 120 ypg
2009 140 ypg
2008 158 ypg
Don't hold your breath waiting for this staff to figure out how to run the ball, it is not what they believe in.
It really doesn't matter what Milt did... times have changed and so has our program. However, there are guys not getting it done on the OL and I would like to see them pulled. Sterup is a good example, give someone else a shot, it couldn't get much worse.
Link it up, and I'll listen to it. Let me know how much "rotation" went on in this game...
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In part, our OL struggles are due to a lack of IDENTITY. What is our strong-suit? Are they maulers/road-graders, or are they pass blockers? They all need to have the nastiness....I'm not seeing it.
Cav can probably get the technique improved, but it will take time.
All need to hit the weight room, this will take even more time.
Cav can probably get the technique improved, but it will take time.
All need to hit the weight room, this will take even more time.
They are neither maulers or pass blockers. This is another position that needs an infusion of JC talent to play quickly because with the current talent on this roster it wont work. Cavs is an excellent coach and if he cant make these guys into a unit no one can.
Here is the link. Listen to Oct 29 Segment 8
http://www.1620thezone.com/SharpandBenningPodcastPage.aspx
Interesting that you chose that game as an example. A game where we started Turman and knew we would have to rely on the running game almost exclusively against a very good KSU team. Both reasons to have starters in the game for the entire time.
HTO, always up for your challenges. So are you saying their is no rotation in this game? Cause that would be false. Within 5 minutes of just randomly scanning this game I found that to be false.
Starters of the game
56 - R. Zatechka
76- J Wilks
54- A Graham
66 - B Stai
72 - Z Wiegert
Within 5 minutes of scanning, I see #69 Steve Ott in the game. So no telling how much more rotation is in this game but there was some rotation. If you don't believe me, go to the 3rd quarter. It was just random so Ott could have been in before then or maybe it was just the 1 time he came in. I doubt that because I know Steve Ott played a ton of football.
And lets not act like the 2015 Husker O-line = the 1994 Husker O-line. That O-line maybe the best in husker history. If anyone could go all game and kill it, it'd be them.
Lastly, hell of a game to pick. Probably one of the most conservative game plans in TO's history starting a 3rd string walk-on QB against a top 20 opponent on the road. Not exactly running NU style of explosive offense in this game. We completed 4 passes in this game and attempted 11. I know we weren't pass happy back then, but the game plan in this game was not the same as most.
Without realizing it, your last sentence supports my stance, it's all about circumstances.
I chose that game because of the final score, not just the circumstances. You can also watch the 1994 Oklahoma game, which was our closest win on the regular season, and tell me how much "rotation" went on. Or, go back and watch the Orange Bowl game against Miami and let us know how much rotation went on. It's easy to rotate people when you're mauling them, as I originally claimed. It's completely different when the chips are on table, as they were in the Kansas State game and possibly the Oklahoma game as well.
It's easy for Taylor to say they "rotated" (his words, 7-man rotation - I question it based on film), although game film shows when and how they "rotated" - all games are available for free online. Ya don't think 20 years in the same system had any impact on "rotating".
HTO, always up for your challenges. So are you saying their is no rotation in this game? Cause that would be false. Within 5 minutes of just randomly scanning this game I found that to be false.
Starters of the game
56 - R. Zatechka
76- J Wilks
54- A Graham
66 - B Stai
72 - Z Wiegert
Within 5 minutes of scanning, I see #69 Steve Ott in the game. So no telling how much more rotation is in this game but there was some rotation. If you don't believe me, go to the 3rd quarter. It was just random so Ott could have been in before then or maybe it was just the 1 time he came in. I doubt that because I know Steve Ott played a ton of football. Obviously, if weren't saying there was a little rotation at O-line then sorry. I miss understood but the OP is talking about zero rotation at O-line, not a little.
And lets not act like the 2015 Husker O-line = the 1994 Husker O-line. That O-line maybe the best in husker history. If anyone could go all game and kill it, it'd be them.
Lastly, hell of a game to pick. Probably one of the most conservative game plans in TO's history starting a 3rd string walk-on QB against a top 20 opponent on the road. Not exactly running NU style of explosive offense in this game. We completed 4 passes in this game and attempted 11. I know we weren't pass happy back then, but the game plan in this game was not the same as most.
I don't know why some of you guys have to post facts on here like showing the number if all confidence OL recruited and developed by Coach Cav while at OSU. It makes my head hurt when I'm trying to tell you how I know better than him how to do his job. Why are you doing this to me?
Nowhere did I say it, @Big Red Menace did, all I did was ask a question.
Wait a minute, you're telling me one of the GREATEST OL's in Nebraska football history isn't the same as the 2015 OL?!?! No freaking way. That's crazy talk. Laughing
I'll tell you what else is crazy talk, coach Osborne game plan that best fits his team to win a game. That's absolutely C-R-A-Z-Y!
P.S.
Interesting you brought up Ott, that's the game he broke a foot, allowing Taylor on the travel roster the rest of the season.
Again, my bad. I am not trying to call you out on something. I wasn't sure.
Your right by Osborne always having the right game plan.
And I never knew that about Taylor and Ott, interesting trivia. Thanks for sharing.
IMO, this lack of rotation is just another example of how we have old men for coaches and the game has likely passed some of them bye. It will happen to almost every coach, the game will evolve is some way that they can't adapt to.
My point with Cav and the lack of rotation is this, College Football is played much faster than it has ever been played. With all these hurry-up offenses, O-lineman are tiring much faster. Could you imagine no rotation on the D-line? You'd get murdered, so why would one do that on the O-line? I also find it ironic that one of the most out of shape coaches is asking a lot physically out of our O-line. But I like Cav. I like the whole staff as human beings. I just believe the game has passed these old guys up and they haven't been able or willing to adapt. Sadly, I honestly don't think the game has passed MR up, just mostly Cav and Banker. I just think MR doesn't pull rank enough on the coaches and is too nice to exercise his rights as a HC.
Wasn't one of the first things MR said as coach at NU, that his #1 wish would be to have a rotation of 10 O-lineman for a game. Said he has never had that but that has been his dream forever. I know we don't have 10 guys that can play and I know that some of the ones that maybe could play are limited. However, I know a few of them are good enough to help spell some starters for a series or 2. Hell bring in Farmer and Foster and only run the ball. I don't care that it wont fool any team when they are in and everyone knows we are going to run the ball . That can work in football. It has worked in football. It's worked at NU and not even in the old "glory days". Just lining up and saying "we are running right there, try and stop it." The kind of football most of this O-line was recruited to play.
For those that state Melt didn't rotate, that is just plan wrong. Melt always had at least 2 swing guys that could give O-lineman breathers. He never did as much of a rotation in the mid-90's but he didn't need to. That line was a machine and physically fit like no other. We don't have that right now. We need a rotation.
My point with Cav and the lack of rotation is this, College Football is played much faster than it has ever been played. With all these hurry-up offenses, O-lineman are tiring much faster. Could you imagine no rotation on the D-line? You'd get murdered, so why would one do that on the O-line? I also find it ironic that one of the most out of shape coaches is asking a lot physically out of our O-line. But I like Cav. I like the whole staff as human beings. I just believe the game has passed these old guys up and they haven't been able or willing to adapt. Sadly, I honestly don't think the game has passed MR up, just mostly Cav and Banker. I just think MR doesn't pull rank enough on the coaches and is too nice to exercise his rights as a HC.
Wasn't one of the first things MR said as coach at NU, that his #1 wish would be to have a rotation of 10 O-lineman for a game. Said he has never had that but that has been his dream forever. I know we don't have 10 guys that can play and I know that some of the ones that maybe could play are limited. However, I know a few of them are good enough to help spell some starters for a series or 2. Hell bring in Farmer and Foster and only run the ball. I don't care that it wont fool any team when they are in and everyone knows we are going to run the ball . That can work in football. It has worked in football. It's worked at NU and not even in the old "glory days". Just lining up and saying "we are running right there, try and stop it." The kind of football most of this O-line was recruited to play.
For those that state Melt didn't rotate, that is just plan wrong. Melt always had at least 2 swing guys that could give O-lineman breathers. He never did as much of a rotation in the mid-90's but he didn't need to. That line was a machine and physically fit like no other. We don't have that right now. We need a rotation.
Would appreciate it if some of the detractors of Cav would address the stats... If he is so bad, how did he average nearly 2 1/2 all conference players each year?
Not saying he shouldn't rotate... I'm not smart enough to determine if he should or shouldn't. Just want to get the detractors' take on this stat, because it kind of flies in the face of what some are saying about Cav.
Not saying he shouldn't rotate... I'm not smart enough to determine if he should or shouldn't. Just want to get the detractors' take on this stat, because it kind of flies in the face of what some are saying about Cav.
I'll ask it again, outside of Michigan State, who rotates their linemen? Read this article.
I said it on page one and I'll say it again...
2014, people said Cotton, Moudy and Pelini shouldn't play as much as they were. Well, now we have their back-ups; Kondolo, Utter and Reeves, playing and they aren't good enough - we should rotate.
Have you thought, just for one second, we don't have guys to rotate right now?
A rotation isn't going to make the line automatically better, that's ridiculous to think that way. To be clear, I would prefer a 7 or 8 man rotation however, if there isn't 2 or 3 guys that are ready at this point, there isn't **** you can do about it at this point.
Sterup, who started 10 or so games last year and has around 24 or so games played in his career, is a back-up to redshirt freshmen Nick Gates. Sterup, just like last year, hasn't performed at the level needed. But, we should rotate guys because it'll make us better? Let's face it, we don't have the guys right now for it to happen, hopefully that'll change in the very near future.
GMAFB.
FWIW, article from Fremont Tribune on Wes Cody (Bergan) from 2001. Article link. Taken from the article:
"Cody had developed into a reliable backup for Fonoti and Rutherford. He usually enters each game on the second series in a rotation for line coach Milt Tenopir."
Edit: People really need stop with "fire them now" stuff. It's one thing to question, compare, contrast, or examine from a critical perspective. It's something completely different calling for heads.
"Cody had developed into a reliable backup for Fonoti and Rutherford. He usually enters each game on the second series in a rotation for line coach Milt Tenopir."
Edit: People really need stop with "fire them now" stuff. It's one thing to question, compare, contrast, or examine from a critical perspective. It's something completely different calling for heads.
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It's foolish to deal in absolutes so I disagree with the OP.
My personal preference is using occassional subs with 1 or 2 players mixed in with starters. I wouldn't play someone just to play, they've got to earn their opportunity. If you're subbing just to sub, there's potential to have your main skill players (QB and RB) take unnecessary hits which may result in injury.
I want my best players on the field as much as possible and to keep them as fresh as possible. This goes for all positions.
My personal preference is using occassional subs with 1 or 2 players mixed in with starters. I wouldn't play someone just to play, they've got to earn their opportunity. If you're subbing just to sub, there's potential to have your main skill players (QB and RB) take unnecessary hits which may result in injury.
I want my best players on the field as much as possible and to keep them as fresh as possible. This goes for all positions.
But, but, but, Cotton-Pelini-Moudy suck, get their back-ups in! NOW!!!
Well, now their back-ups are starters, and they suck, get their back-ups in! NOW!!!
Lewis is killing us, slide Gates over to LT and get Sterup in at RT. Oh crap, wait, now that Sterup has played 2 games get his back-up in PRONTO!
Can't make this **** up, I tell ya.
It's interesting to hear Adam Taylor on the rotation and some of this other anecdotal evidence of it.
He also talked about being physical, dominating the guy across from you. If these guys are going explosive 100% on every play, then maybe it does make sense to rotate the guys. If they are playing patty cake up there, then maybe it isn't as necessary.
I'm curious for anyone that knows, how is pass blocking different from run blocking in the physical sense? Which wears you out faster? I've never played the position, so would be interested in hearing from someone who actually knows.
He also talked about being physical, dominating the guy across from you. If these guys are going explosive 100% on every play, then maybe it does make sense to rotate the guys. If they are playing patty cake up there, then maybe it isn't as necessary.
I'm curious for anyone that knows, how is pass blocking different from run blocking in the physical sense? Which wears you out faster? I've never played the position, so would be interested in hearing from someone who actually knows.
HTO, I will work on your question about which other teams rotate their lineman. I haven't paid much attention to that for other teams lately to be honest. But I l will definitely keep an eye out of it tomorrow and get back to you.
As far as the back-up question, I always thought Cotton and Moudy deserved to be in the rotation, just not starting. Go back and watch last years NW game. Watch Kondolo and Reeves. IIRC, this is the game where we really start seeing these 2 come in and play a lot. Anyways, those 2 really had great games against NW last year. I think we scored on every drive that those 2 played. Then last week neither of them looked great. What changed so drastically this year vs. last year? I am not talking about anything other than the line play.
Yes, I have questioned if we have the guys or not but I know that there are at least 2 guys that are good enough to spell some relieve a guy from a series or 2.
Here is my thing, you disagree and that's fine, sometimes I believe its ok to throw a back-up out there just to give the starter a break and b to allow him to evaluate the game from a third person prospective. Who gives a flying F if we punt that drive. What we gain is A) our guy is now a little more rested and has a little more power and B) Now can see certain things about the team your playing that maybe you weren't seeing before.
Not asking for Sterup. Was more wondering about the 2 freshman guards. If its a "mental" thing as Cav has kind of stated, then I think throwing them out there for a series or 2 a game will help that. I don't think its a physical thing with these 2. Also Sterup is starting tomorrow and yes, I think Gates should play some tomorrow but that'd go against the no-rotation thing.
Don't waste time, check my tag comment.
I don't know, maybe losing playmakers from one year to another. Why did NW play with 7 around the box in the 1H compared to 9 in the 2H this year? Could it be, they knew our OL is not good so let Tommy beat them? Absolutely they had a great game last year, they had a run there for awhile where they looked unstoppable then poof, it was gone.
We don't disagree as much as you think. It's something I prefer, going forward, but not something in year one unless they earned it Monday thru Thursday. I've said this for years, outside of Chris Brooks, if a guy can't perform M-T, I don't want him anywhere near the ball when the whistle blows.
Check out the Tanner Farmer thread and you'll understand why he isn't playing. As for Foster, I've heard a balance from both sides so I don't feel comfortable commenting. Tomorrow doesn't go against no rotation, Gates isn't fully healthy and they're going to work him back in. Smart move however, it doesn't benefit us going forward.
TBC, I'm 100% with you that back-ups should play x-number of series/snaps. I'm 100% for a 7 or 8-man rotation. However, it must be earned M-T or a bad message has been sent to the team.
This is true. I can't imagine any coach would, with legit two-deep talent across the board, run 5 into the ground for the heck of it.
I never said that. I just pointed out that you picked a game that would be one of the most likely to not have any rotation. However, there was rotation. Humphreys played two series in place of Graham at C, and Ott played two series replacing Wilks.
Forget about the past. During fall camp, Cavanaugh repeatedly stated that they like the depth and planned to have 7-8 guys ready to play. That suggests a rotation or some sort. Now he's saying that the second team isn't capable of playing in response to questions/criticisms. I was actually excited about Coach Cav because I thought he got it. Instead, all we have now is a line that plays patty cake and doesn't dictate any physicality(except for Gates). I was duped and am willing to admit it.
I think what needs to go is the practice of calling for people's jobs before they get a fair chance. We've all had our share of head-shaking moments this year. But getting online and barfing up a bunch of complaints doesn't help. Especially if you're like me and have no real idea what you're talking about.
Again, what you see here at Nebraska doesn't gel with what he produced at Oregon State. Why is that? Maybe, just maybe, he needs a little more time to get some talented guys in place before we say he sucks and should be fired.