Cal's Flaw

[K_TIME]

So are you suggesting that Cal should have sat Monk just because he was having an off night?

Monk has to learn how to play in tight games. You can't pull him based on one bad game. It's very short sighted thinking.

We are going as far as Monk takes us.........not Mulder.

In the 2nd half...Monk almost single handidly lost the game. Not just with missing shots, but the TOs were just loose decision making/ball handling. Then trotting back after some of those TOs vs. sprinting was the straw for me.

Cal could have just as easily taught him by sitting him and not putting a game in jeopardy vs. letting him play it out and yelling at him.

btw...I have no problem with the technical...he didn't hang on rim. He protected himself from having momentum that would have taken him behind the backboard. He just hung on rim until he was able to safely fall below the backbaord and over-whistle refs wanted to make themselves known which happened the entire night.

 

[MdWIldcat55]

The OP and many other on this board suffer from a logical fallacy that assigns dubious causes to every effect, and sees patterns where there are none.

Monk has an off night -- that confirms for people suffering from this fallacy a host of false premises: 1. Cal is mortgaged to freshmen he's promised to get into the league. 2. Kentucky hasn't won every (or most) NCAA tournaments recently because Cal stuck with Harrison or Knight or Wall and Bledsoe or Randle too long instead of going to older (or younger, see Ulis 2015) players. 3. Cal is too inflexible and can't see the obvious time to bench a star freshman. And so on.

If Cal's system was to recruit 4 and 3 stars, redshirt them for a year and then play all 5-year seniors mixed in with a few graduate transfers, the same crowd would be disparaging him for not getting guys like Monk and the Harrison twins (who, after all, got Kentucky to back-to-back Final Fours.) If his system was to constantly go with the hot hand, and bench a leading scorer having an off night, the first time Kentucky lost these guys would be saying, "Why bench Monk? He was DUE to hit five or six in a row!"

The fact that people like this don't want to accept is basketball is not gravity or energy and it isn't controlled by a system of immutable physical rules. Kids have off nights. Refs blow calls. Things that have worked for coaches 50 times fail in a critical game.

Nothing -- NOTHING -- Cal or anybody else can do will assure that Kentucky wins every time -- or even every time the Cats are heavily favored and SHOULD win. That's basketball. Cal's system -- and his unmatched skill as a motivator and teacher -- gives the Cats a pretty good shot to be in the mix late in the tournament every year. After that, luck plays a part, guys have bad nights, other teams get on a freak roll, and so on.

If you can't take the lack of certitude, or the sense that it can all be controlled and defeat eliminated from the range of possibilities by the right series of coaching moves, basketball isn't for you.

 

[awf]

I see what OP is saying. Cal himself said he should have had Booker and Ulis in for the Harrisons.

You don't pull Monk for having a bad night. You pull him for swinging on the rim, loafing back on transition D several times, shooting bad pull up jumpers (good shots in rhythm he should shoot all the time even when he is off), trying to do to much instead of making easy passes to better ball handlers, and the other mental mistakes.

Don't sit him long, but just a few minutes to get his attention. He is the scorer on the team and we need him. Not the version we got last night though. Of nights are ok, those multiple mistakes are not.

And I agree with what was said earlier, Cal going off on him like that rattled him and shook him for the rest of the game.

What kind of idiot are you? Did you even watch the game...? Monk didn't "swing" on the rim....take your agenda back to where ever you store it. IF you think that is hanging on the rim you don't watch much basketball.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

It's been said before in other years with the Harrisons, etc., but Cal's weakness is sticking with whatever freshman superstar he's trying to get into the league far too long in games where they just aren't getting it done.

I like Monk. I like him a lot. He's played incredible this year. Last night, for whatever reason, he didn't have it and was hurting us. He was kept in the game far past when any of the upper classmen would have been yanked and it's not even close.

This was a rough game in a tough atmosphere and we could have benefited from more experience on the floor. Especially more experience that had already shown in that game they were playing fairly well. Hawkins was playing decent. At least I think he was but he wasn't in there long enough to really know. Same for Mulder. Those guys are seniors.

Yeah - I know it's only one game and I should be enjoying this team (which I am - a lot), but this seems to be a pattern. And it's a pattern that's cost us in the tournament before.

I'm glad coach Calipari kept the Harrison twins as freshman in the tournament as freshmen. Aaron Harrison pretty much got us to the championship. I'm assuming you're talking about the annoying Wisconsin game as sophomores where they had the second and third best games against Wisconsin other than towns. Again because of a couple of bad possessions two players get all the blame which I find hilarious on this message board.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

The OP and many other on this board suffer from a logical fallacy that assigns dubious causes to every effect, and sees patterns where there are none.

Monk has an off night -- that confirms for people suffering from this fallacy a host of false premises: 1. Cal is mortgaged to freshmen he's promised to get into the league. 2. Kentucky hasn't won every (or most) NCAA tournaments recently because Cal stuck with Harrison or Knight or Wall and Bledsoe or Randle too long instead of going to older (or younger, see Ulis 2015) players. 3. Cal is too inflexible and can't see the obvious time to bench a star freshman. And so on.

If Cal's system was to recruit 4 and 3 stars, redshirt them for a year and then play all 5-year seniors mixed in with a few graduate transfers, the same crowd would be disparaging him for not getting guys like Monk and the Harrison twins (who, after all, got Kentucky to back-to-back Final Fours.) If his system was to constantly go with the hot hand, and bench a leading scorer having an off night, the first time Kentucky lost these guys would be saying, "Why bench Monk? He was DUE to hit five or six in a row!"

The fact that people like this don't want to accept is basketball is not gravity or energy and it isn't controlled by a system of immutable physical rules. Kids have off nights. Refs blow calls. Things that have worked for coaches 50 times fail in a critical game.

Nothing -- NOTHING -- Cal or anybody else can do will assure that Kentucky wins every time -- or even every time the Cats are heavily favored and SHOULD win. That's basketball. Cal's system -- and his unmatched skill as a motivator and teacher -- gives the Cats a pretty good shot to be in the mix late in the tournament every year. After that, luck plays a part, guys have bad nights, other teams get on a freak roll, and so on.

If you can't take the lack of certitude, or the sense that it can all be controlled and defeat eliminated from the range of possibilities by the right series of coaching moves, basketball isn't for you.

Exactly.

 

[BlueRunner11]

Yep - or give Mulder a few. I'm not talking about benching him. I'm not even talking about last night in particular. I'm talking about being willing to pull his guy off the floor when it's best for the team - most likely in the tournament.

I'm really glad you and UMM aren't coaching this team.

 

[know1]

The OP and many other on this board suffer from a logical fallacy that assigns dubious causes to every effect, and sees patterns where there are none.

Monk has an off night -- that confirms for people suffering from this fallacy a host of false premises: 1. Cal is mortgaged to freshmen he's promised to get into the league. 2. Kentucky hasn't won every (or most) NCAA tournaments recently because Cal stuck with Harrison or Knight or Wall and Bledsoe or Randle too long instead of going to older (or younger, see Ulis 2015) players. 3. Cal is too inflexible and can't see the obvious time to bench a star freshman. And so on.

If Cal's system was to recruit 4 and 3 stars, redshirt them for a year and then play all 5-year seniors mixed in with a few graduate transfers, the same crowd would be disparaging him for not getting guys like Monk and the Harrison twins (who, after all, got Kentucky to back-to-back Final Fours.) If his system was to constantly go with the hot hand, and bench a leading scorer having an off night, the first time Kentucky lost these guys would be saying, "Why bench Monk? He was DUE to hit five or six in a row!"

The fact that people like this don't want to accept is basketball is not gravity or energy and it isn't controlled by a system of immutable physical rules. Kids have off nights. Refs blow calls. Things that have worked for coaches 50 times fail in a critical game.

Nothing -- NOTHING -- Cal or anybody else can do will assure that Kentucky wins every time -- or even every time the Cats are heavily favored and SHOULD win. That's basketball. Cal's system -- and his unmatched skill as a motivator and teacher -- gives the Cats a pretty good shot to be in the mix late in the tournament every year. After that, luck plays a part, guys have bad nights, other teams get on a freak roll, and so on.

If you can't take the lack of certitude, or the sense that it can all be controlled and defeat eliminated from the range of possibilities by the right series of coaching moves, basketball isn't for you.

What you're saying makes no sense whatsoever. You make it sound as if there's no point in making adjustments, changing strategy or possibly even practicing fundamentals. You're right that nothing is certain, but players and coaches can impact the game with their actions.

And nobody's talking about winning every game. All I pointed out is that he left a star player in there what seemed like far too long when he was hurting the team, and I compared it to similar situations in the past that seemed to have a negative effect.

 

[Soupbean]

So are you suggesting that Cal should have sat Monk just because he was having an off night?

Monk has to learn how to play in tight games. You can't pull him based on one bad game. It's very short sighted thinking.

We are going as far as Monk takes us.........not Mulder.

Yes and No. Monks weakness is his inability to feel the game flow and understand good shot for a bad shot. When we have gone empty three times down and the other guys are on a roll and the crowd is into it, it's not the time to jack up a quick 25 footer with nobody under the basket. Fox understands this and tries to get to the rim or work for a better shot, Monk does not. Cal knows this and should have taken him out to remind him of that. Anyone else he would have but he leaves Monk in and just yells from the bench at him. The problem is Monk usually repeats it a few times a game and needs to sit to understand better and learn from it.

Monk is an incredible talent but he will either shoot us in or out of a big game in the tournament if he doesn't learn this.

 

[know1]

I'm glad coach Calipari kept the Harrison twins as freshman in the tournament as freshmen. Aaron Harrison pretty much got us to the championship. I'm assuming you're talking about the annoying Wisconsin game as sophomores where they had the second and third best games against Wisconsin other than towns. Again because of a couple of bad possessions two players get all the blame which I find hilarious on this message board.

It makes it a lot easier to fill the stat sheet if your coach doesn't take you out of the game.

 

[chroix]

Didn't we hear this last year with Murray?

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

Yes and No. Monks weakness is his inability to feel the game flow and understand good shot for a bad shot. When we have gone empty three times down and the other guys are on a roll and the crowd is into it, it's not the time to jack up a quick 25 footer with nobody under the basket. Fox understands this and tries to get to the rim or work for a better shot, Monk does not. Cal knows this and should have taken him out to remind him of that. Anyone else he would have but he leaves Monk in and just yells from the bench at him. The problem is Monk usually repeats it a few times a game and needs to sit to understand better and learn from it.

Monk is an incredible talent but he will either shoot us in or out of a big game in the tournament if he doesn't learn this.

This isn't a Monk issue tho.

How many times have we seen Fox shoot jumpers when aside from one game he can't hit them?

Briscoe shot has improved but his % on jumpers also sucks.

Monk is a shooter. I know some guys want him to drive more especially when his shot isn't falling but I'm not so sure that's really his game in the half court. He reminds me of Murray. They like shooting the 3. :sometimes they will fall sometimes they wont

You don't win basketball games by removing your best player

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

It's been said before in other years with the Harrisons, etc., but Cal's weakness is sticking with whatever freshman superstar he's trying to get into the league far too long in games where they just aren't getting it done.

I like Monk. I like him a lot. He's played incredible this year. Last night, for whatever reason, he didn't have it and was hurting us. He was kept in the game far past when any of the upper classmen would have been yanked and it's not even close.

This was a rough game in a tough atmosphere and we could have benefited from more experience on the floor. Especially more experience that had already shown in that game they were playing fairly well. Hawkins was playing decent. At least I think he was but he wasn't in there long enough to really know. Same for Mulder. Those guys are seniors.

Yeah - I know it's only one game and I should be enjoying this team (which I am - a lot), but this seems to be a pattern. And it's a pattern that's cost us in the tournament before.

I don't buy this theory at all. First of all, the thing with the twins started because of the Wisconsin game, they were sophomores that year. Also, we were 38-0 going into that, so it was more stick with what go you to 38-0 than anything else. Also, Booker was getting destroyed on defense in that game.

And Monk is a high 1st round already. Cal is not playing him more than he should because he needs to showcase him for the draft. I don't think that is in Cal's mind at all during a game. He is trying to win, and he goes with his gut.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

When Cal ripped Monk for the hanging on the rim it screwed Monk up the rest of the night ...i hope when Cal watches the tape he is man enough to apologize to Monk....that was horrible...hell Willis dunk was pulling himself up not Monks

OMG, you are either blind or have very little understanding of the game. Monk was off all night. Your takes are getting worse and worse.

 

[308955]

It does not bother Cal to lose a few games throughout the season to prepare for the tournament (If it did, he would schedule like Syracuse). He allows his best freshmen to lose or almost lose a few games every year and he does so willingly. There is nothing worse than sitting through film session with your teammates and watching video evidence of your selfish play cost your teammates. It is excruciating. It is one of the ways Cal gets so many egos to successfully to coexist...Cal gets to say here is evidence of what happens to your teammates when you do things your way, now lets do them mine. Its tough to watch, but effective.

 

[Blueaz]

I get that, and it's fine if it's just a game last night, but he needs to realize that the strategy is different when we get to the tournament. That's where he wouldn't deviate in the past.

Harrison hade mad some huge shots at the end of games, I think he was expecting (hoping) for the same...

 

[J-FIELDS23]

It's been said before in other years with the Harrisons, etc., but Cal's weakness is sticking with whatever freshman superstar he's trying to get into the league far too long in games where they just aren't getting it done.

I like Monk. I like him a lot. He's played incredible this year. Last night, for whatever reason, he didn't have it and was hurting us. He was kept in the game far past when any of the upper classmen would have been yanked and it's not even close.

This was a rough game in a tough atmosphere and we could have benefited from more experience on the floor. Especially more experience that had already shown in that game they were playing fairly well. Hawkins was playing decent. At least I think he was but he wasn't in there long enough to really know. Same for Mulder. Those guys are seniors.

Yeah - I know it's only one game and I should be enjoying this team (which I am - a lot), but this seems to be a pattern. And it's a pattern that's cost us in the tournament before.

When you say he would take any other guy out, I think you're wrong. He takes "fringe" players out quickly for not performing. When there's a guy like Monk that proves his value night in and night out, he doesn't take them out because of an "off night". Willis and Gabriel haven't proven themselves over and over. They come out for bad play. Proven guys don't.

 

[Blueaz]

OMG, you are either blind or have very little understanding of the game. Monk was off all night. Your takes are getting worse and worse.

he is just looking for responses...
I don't have him on ignore, but I am not responding to his idiotic, baiting threads and posts...mods really need to give him a TO

 

[kybassfan]

The hate is strong in this thread. Sounds like the Cal Legion of Doom (CLOD) is growing strong with the dark side.

Guys, it was an away game in the SEC. Stuff happens. Luckily Cal doesn't act like a little girl with her hair on fire. I'll add, some of you are agreeing with UMM, so you know you are wrong.

 

[Ineverplayedthegame]

Neither Fox or Monk play a lick of defense. They make Willis look like MKG. In all of their previous experience, they didn't have to, and staying out of foul trouble and on the court was primary. This team will only go as far as they can carry it. They both need a better defensive mindset and learn how to help the team when their shots are not falling. Also concentrate and focus on the first free throw as opposed to just step to the line and fling it.

 

[ulismyman]

He didnt hang on the rim and Cal was wrongvabout it
..all of your UMM hate isnt gonna change it...monk played awful but that wasnt a tech

 

[LeonThe Camel]

It's been said before in other years with the Harrisons, etc., but Cal's weakness is sticking with whatever freshman superstar he's trying to get into the league far too long in games where they just aren't getting it done.

I like Monk. I like him a lot. He's played incredible this year. Last night, for whatever reason, he didn't have it and was hurting us. He was kept in the game far past when any of the upper classmen would have been yanked and it's not even close.

This was a rough game in a tough atmosphere and we could have benefited from more experience on the floor. Especially more experience that had already shown in that game they were playing fairly well. Hawkins was playing decent. At least I think he was but he wasn't in there long enough to really know. Same for Mulder. Those guys are seniors.

Yeah - I know it's only one game and I should be enjoying this team (which I am - a lot), but this seems to be a pattern. And it's a pattern that's cost us in the tournament before.

It is a catch22 situation.
Calipari is known for playing his freshmen. If you pull them because of a rough game, you are sending a different message to recruits. One that says i will play if you are playing well.
Then do we really want to rely on Mulder and Hawkins in tight situations. I don't.

 

[WildmanWilson_rivals]

I hate when Cal chews someone's butts on a bad foul call. I've seen it a ton of times.

 

[awf]

I'm glad coach Calipari kept the Harrison twins as freshman in the tournament as freshmen. Aaron Harrison pretty much got us to the championship. I'm assuming you're talking about the annoying Wisconsin game as sophomores where they had the second and third best games against Wisconsin other than towns. Again because of a couple of bad possessions two players get all the blame which I find hilarious on this message board.

I find it more "typical" than hilarious.........this is the sad thing. Some on here would moan if you only gave them $10million dollars

 

[KYCAT78]

What OP says would make total sense... if we were getting Monk back next year. We aren't. As said before, we're going to go as far as Monk will take us in March. Even if Monk doesn't like it, it's time for trial by fire. It's time to get tough, it's time to bunker down. He isn't going to learn how to fight through a bad game on the bench. When we're down 7 to West Virginia in the tournament, Monk needs to know there's no comfort of the bench coming. Play through it, get better. Go win despite everything. Now, on the road in the SEC in January? Okay we lose and he learns. Or we win and he learns. Even better.

Monk will be a better player because of this game, I have no
doubt. The Monk you see in March will be crafted in the

doldrums of January and February - for better or for worse

.

It is a team game not a me game. Monk knew he was having a bad game and tried to turn it around by taking bad shots and forcing play. As a result he almost put the team in a position to lose. He has to accept he can have a bad game and let the other team members carry the load when that occurs. Monk is a great player but even great players have off nights.

 

[Soupbean]

When you say he would take any other guy out, I think you're wrong. He takes "fringe" players out quickly for not performing. When there's a guy like Monk that proves his value night in and night out, he doesn't take them out because of an "off night". Willis and Gabriel haven't proven themselves over and over. They come out for bad play. Proven guys don't.

I think Cal always gives more leeway to guys who show more confidence period. Some guys have it like Murray and Monk and others need it built up like Willis and Darius Miller before they start showing it. Cal tends to have little patience for timidity and that's natural.

My issue is more with the "OFF NIGHT" thing. Cal's own comment was “Malik didn’t really help us – well, he made some free throws down the stretch. But that was not one of his better games. And I’ll say this: He had a great shootaround today, maybe one of the better shootarounds I’ve seen, and that’s really unusual.”

Monk's off night wasnt' about shooting form or touch it was about shot selection and IMO Cal should have recognized that and set him down and corrected it. I'm guessing all shots in a shootaround are good shots

 

[KYFOSSIL]

He didnt hang on the rim and Cal was wrongvabout it
..all of your UMM hate isnt gonna change it...monk played awful but that wasnt a tech

Yes it was a bad call and maybe Cal should have chilled but if that affected Monks game then he shares your mental toughness which is nada

 

[Blueaz]

It makes it a lot easier to fill the stat sheet if your coach doesn't take you out of the game.

yep, no agenda here...

 

[ukcatfaninsc_rivals80521]

He didnt hang on the rim and Cal was wrongvabout it
..all of your UMM hate isnt gonna change it...monk played awful but that wasnt a tech

In that game, the way the refs were calling it, it was a tech. You can debate about whether or not it should have been all day and night but Monk has to learn that when refs are calling a game that tight, they are just looking for excuses to T players up.

As soon as he hung on the rim for an extra second, I thought they were going to T him up. Not because he deserved it, but because of how the game was being called.

Cal may have overreacted but he also probably told the guys to be aware of how the game was being called and Monk didn't make the adjustment. He should learn from this going forward.

 

[Blueaz]

I hate when Cal chews someone's butts on a bad foul call. I've seen it a ton of times.

what do you think he does at practice and in the locker room..
maybe he prepares these guys for an *** chewing...maybe he apologizes after seeing film...maybe he doesn't
NO ONE knows...
BUT, I can't remember but one or two complaints from players about it...and guys know how he is, coming in to UK...so maybe, its not that big a deal

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

I guess I understand tho. When things aren't going right, it's just natural to want to change things.

I would have stuck with Monk personally and I'm glad he did. Yeah Hawkins hit the big 3 but he's also a 25% career 3pt shooter.

I'll take my odds with Monk even during an off game.

 

[Bobcat94_rivals]

I think the OP needs to now list his flaws lol...

 

[lkc1021]

It's been said before in other years with the Harrisons, etc., but Cal's weakness is sticking with whatever freshman superstar he's trying to get into the league far too long in games where they just aren't getting it done.

I like Monk. I like him a lot. He's played incredible this year. Last night, for whatever reason, he didn't have it and was hurting us. He was kept in the game far past when any of the upper classmen would have been yanked and it's not even close.

This was a rough game in a tough atmosphere and we could have benefited from more experience on the floor. Especially more experience that had already shown in that game they were playing fairly well. Hawkins was playing decent. At least I think he was but he wasn't in there long enough to really know. Same for Mulder. Those guys are seniors.

Yeah - I know it's only one game and I should be enjoying this team (which I am - a lot), but this seems to be a pattern. And it's a pattern that's cost us in the tournament before.

Cal's weakness is a bunch of fans like you that will never be pleased and will find fault with him no matter what he does. Maybe you would like to get Billy G back to coach and we could be recruiting 8th graders and hoping to get to the NIT.

 

[StubbornPenny]

It is a team game not a me game. Monk knew he was having a bad game and tried to turn it around by taking bad shots and forcing play. As a result he almost put the team in a position to lose. He has to accept he can have a bad game and let the other team members carry the load when that occurs. Monk is a great player but even great players have off nights.

Yes, and it's a random game in January that doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. If monk is having an off night on the tournament, that is not a good time to flail a bit and learn what to do and what not to do. A random game in January is a GREAT time to flail and bit and learn that. Live with a player learning in January to have a better player by March. I don't care if Mulder could come in and steady the ship in a January game that means almost nothing. I do care about getting Monk, a supreme talent who can take over any game in March, learning to handle these situations.

Now, if Monk is flailing and taking bad shots in March, then we're in trouble. But he at least has the potential to carry us to a title. Mulder, even at his best, does not. Do you care more about winning in Starkville in January (which by the way we DID), or do you care more about preparing your young stars for the NCAA tournament?

 

[wildcatwelder_rivals]

I would NOT have sat him for his missed/bad shots, but I would have sat him for a few minutes to explain to him how he's hurting the team with his TO's.

As others have noted, he has to be in the game as much as possible, but there are times any player must sit the pine and get instruction from a coach.

 

[StubbornPenny]

Monk should have been removed from the game for at least a short period during that span to get him refocused. You are not going to get anyone refocused while screaming and yelling at them while their adrenalin is pumping during the flow of action.

Cal knows full damn well that come March, there's going to be a moment where we absolutely cannot take Monk out, we can't use our timeouts, the opponent is threatening to take the lead, and Monk is rattled. Teach him to overcome in January, and you have a superstar in March.

Taking him out and babying him does nothing for his growth, it just gives us a slightly better chance at a stupid game in January. UK isn't for everyone. You're going to be yelled at, challenged, and asked - no, required - to do the impossible.

As far as Willis? We need Willis to make the right plays. Willis at 100% of potential is a great auxiliary piece. Monk at 100% potential can win a title on his shoulders. So he gets more leeway.

 

[CatPhight_rivals65113]

Last night was a learning experience for Monk. Sure he had an off night, but who hasn't?

That said he still had 14 points, 5 boards and 4 assists.

Games like this help him learn and move on from mistakes and he'll be a better player for it come March.

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

He had 5 turnovers which isn't good but 3 of them were forced.

Miss St forces alot of turnovers. They force turnovers on average 21% of the time on defense.

 

[know1]

I think the OP needs to now list his flaws lol...

I'm letting everyone else do that

 

[AGEE11]

What kind of idiot are you? Did you even watch the game...? Monk didn't "swing" on the rim....take your agenda back to where ever you store it. IF you think that is hanging on the rim you don't watch much basketball.

Apparently the kind our Hall of Fame coach agrees with. If that's an idiot, I'll take it.

 

[Blueaz]

Last night was a learning experience for Monk. Sure he had an off night, but who hasn't?

That said he still had 14 points, 5 boards and 4 assists.

Games like this help him learn and move on from mistakes and he'll be a better player for it come March.

shhhh, all the coaches on here say you are wrong...