Ivan Rabb and Jaylen Brown lose to San Diego State. Kentucky tried to recruit both of these guys at one time. Watched the game and not impressed with either one, although Rabb looked better of the two. Game not really close.
California goes down
- Thread starter LewisCoBearCat
- Start date
Cal is not UK, that is for damn sure. I hope Brown is having fun being at an irrelevant program. They also have Gonzo Martin as their HC...not a great coaching mind there either.
Both of them are going to be millionaires and I'm happy for that. That said, I owe them nothing in terms of hoping they have success in college from a win/loss standpoint. The pragmatic side in me hopes Brown utterly fails this year. It just makes Calipari's future recruiting efforts that much easier.
And now, my petty response to them losing...
And now, my petty response to them losing...
The more stories (or even innuendo/indirect implications) Calipari has of guys like Jabari Parker, Newman, Muhammed, Brown and Wiggins failing to advance in the tournament, the better. I mention the word innuendo because although I don't think Cal uses the names of players, he certainly will reference guys who didn't make it in a particular system (I've heard him do it before regarding guys like Darius Rice). I mean, we're still waiting for Sean Miller to make a Final Four. Roy hasn't sniffed a Final Four since 2009. Kansas has made it a ritual to lose to a double-digit seed before the Elite Eight. Over time, these narratives will matter more and more to some degree (they already are). The key is to have an entire list of them and make sure recruits are aware of them, even if the narrative is told through innuendo.
Does advancing in the tournament matter more than anything else? Of course not; but knowing that UK will not only accentuate your lottery potential (which is still the biggest factor), but will also give you a real, measurable system that typically advances farther than others in the tournament certainly helps
That said, rooting against these kids to win isn't really petty. It's pragmatic and sensible. The more implied stories of failure the UK staff can point to regarding kids they lost out on, while pointing to UK's own success, the better. If everyone in the country successfully pulls off OAD, the UK narrative loses its luster.
You could add Ben Simmons,Zimmerman and a few others to the list as well.Other than Simmons I am glad we didn't get some of these guysBoth of them are going to be millionaires and I'm happy for that. That said, I owe them nothing in terms of hoping they have success in college from a win/loss standpoint. The pragmatic side in me hopes Brown utterly fails this year. It just makes Calipari's future recruiting efforts that much easier.
And now, my petty response to them losing...
Lol Calipari gets flack for actually losing games with the talent we have, but they often forget that they're still freshmen. LSU still manages to have talent like Ben Simmons and Antonio Blakeney, and play like they do against decent competition (and lose). Same goes with Jaylen Brown and Ivan Rabb at Cal, so on and so forth.
Simmons is the most talented player in college basketball since Anthony Davis. He will be a star in the NBA. They returned a good amount of talent and added another top talent with Simmons. If that group had even a remotely competent coach then they are a top 10 team. As it is, Simmons will be the top pick in the draft, because like Wiggins, he is just that talented. However, also like Wiggins, Simmons will look much less than he could throughout the year and their team will be a huge disappointment as Jones is way worse than Self even.
It's harder to coach freshman than you thought isn't it . Calipari knows he must teach 24 7 to get kids to listen and be good by seasons end, he also adds a little dash of razzle dazzle . I saw it on shushefskys face that he was having a hard time with his freshmen during champions classic.
This is the ESPN sell that is currently being shoved down our throats. Wiggins was billed as the next NBA superstar, but has been just good in the NBA. Simmons does not have a killer instinct as a scorer. You can tell he wants to be a piece rather than THE guy. Guys like that don't turn into NBA superstars. ESPN is selling that he's the next LeBron. He could just as easily end up the next Evan Turner.
Yeah, I keep hearing how LSU has a couple key guys out...big deal. With Simmons and Blakeney they should not have lost two games in a row. They have other talented guys playing now to support those two...but they are frosh and cannot be counted on consistently despite their talent. People want to give them a pass for that...screw that. UK never gets a pass when it loses games each year with freshmen heavy teams. I agree completely with you Rhavicc.
The good news is that the longer Cal is here, the bigger the sample size becomes in terms of how his freshmen perform verses these other coaches, who are undoubtedly selling the Brown/Zimmerman types on "You're a OAD regardless of where you go. Don't listen to Kentucky's B.S. sale's job."
What they're finding is that they cannot replicate what Cal is doing. Most of them can't even get out of the first weekend of the NCAA Tourney and many more can't advance past the Sweet Sixteen. That even goes for the colossal titans of the sport like Self, Miller, Williams, and in 8 out of the last 11 years, even Coach K.
Keep telling me how it doesn't matter where these kids go when it actually comes to winning as freshmen. I'll keep selling you real estate in Wonderland.
What they're finding is that they cannot replicate what Cal is doing. Most of them can't even get out of the first weekend of the NCAA Tourney and many more can't advance past the Sweet Sixteen. That even goes for the colossal titans of the sport like Self, Miller, Williams, and in 8 out of the last 11 years, even Coach K.
Keep telling me how it doesn't matter where these kids go when it actually comes to winning as freshmen. I'll keep selling you real estate in Wonderland.
I thought this was a strange and funny game. Cal seemed to be in total control up 15, but then San Diego State closed the game on a 42-13 run. Not where I'd want my defense to be at this time if I were Cal given that SDSU struggled to score last season and just lost a game to Arkansas-Little Rock scoring 43 total points in that game.
Just really funny that some fans on here absolutely bash other players for going to schools not named "Kentucky". You do realize that other schools can win too and can make it to the NBA without going to Kentucky. We have only won it all 8 times. Think about that. Quit hating so much on kids.
We're talking about Jaylen Brown and connecting his winning probabilities to other real freshmen who didn't do shite once the tournament came around.
You changed the narrative to "making it to the NBA", which no one said couldn't happen elsewhere. In fact, it's fairly obvious that it can happen virtually anywhere; however, what we're discussing is the success of other programs when it comes to actually winning with freshmen. If you can offer an extensive list of these guys who went to a Final Four since the Cal Era began (not counting Calipari's guys), go for it.
I'll offer a list of notable OADs during the Calipari Era who didn't advance to the Final Four.
Shabazz Muhammed - lost in the first round
Andrew Wiggins - lost in the second round (overall #1 pick in 2014)
Jabari Parker - lost in the first round
Anthony Bennett - lost in the first round (overall #1 pick in 2013)
Kyrie Irving - lost in the Sweet Sixteen (overall #1 pick in 2011)
Austin Rivers - lost in the first round
Andre Drummond - lost in the first round
Josh Selby - lost in the Sweet Sixteen
Kelly Oubre - lost in second round
De'Angelo Russell - lost in second round
Stanley Johnson - lost in Elite Eight
Aaron Gordon - lost in Elite Eight
Avery Bradley - lost in first round
Myles Turner - lost in first round
Kevon Looney - lost in Sweet Sixteen
Rashad Vaughn - didn't qualify for NCAA Tournament
Tyler Ennis - lost in second round
Noah Vonleh - didn't qualify for NCAA Tournament
Bradley Beal - lost in Elite Eight
Quincy Miller - lost in Elite Eight
Steven Adams - lost in first round
In fact, up until the 2015 Duke team, virtually every single OAD who attended another school during the Calipari Era failed to make a Final Four. You can ignore that point. I assure you Calipari won't.
Now, here's his list of OAD players who have made it to a Final Four with Calipari:
Karl Towns
Trey Lyles
Devon Booker
Julius Randle
James Young
Michael Kidd Gilchrist
Marquis Teague
Anthony Davis
Brandon Knight
Derrick Rose
You can say this is merely coincidental. You'd be wrong, however.
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Now, now Saul, lets not bring facts into this.
And yet, currently, you appear rather small behind your keyboard. You ignored all my points, and I bet it's because you have nothing to counter them with. Maybe you can change that by actually taking part in an educated debate - one that you started and appear unable to actually continue.
Talk about promoting a "bad rep".
Ignored your points? All I am saying is that people on here tend bash players for not going to Kentucky. Thats what happens all the time. Don't act like it doesn't happen.
I wouldn't put too much stock into Wiggins and his Kansas connection. After all, according to Bill Self, he was a "pro before he got there."
Yea ok. Because I criticized stupid fellow UK fans I am not a UK fan now? Get over yourself buddy. You don't know me.
Perhaps some of them should be bashed. When it comes to the Malik Newmans of the world, either many of them are delusional to think that they'll make that big of an impact on their programs, or they don't care about winning at a high level as freshmen. Guys who go to Duke, KU, and Arizona obviously are the exceptions to that rule. Those programs are legitimate. Still, they aren't Kentucky when it comes to year-in, year-out success with OAD talent. That was the initial argument within the thread - that Cal and Kentucky offer more to OAD players than anyone.
Maybe you can actually comment on that.
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I'm not mad at all. I'm just patiently waiting for you to actually make a coherent point.
I thought about UK ONLY having won it all 8 times, and I think that's pretty darn good considering that only one school has won more.
Did Grandpa make you look that way yesterday when he placed you at the kiddie table for a 14th year in a row?
Thank you. It's a proven fact....fact....that wisdom comes with age. That's the BBN....wisdom in the game of b'ball.
You notice how he keeps saying "Kentucky fans" and not stuff like that is why "we" get a bad rep or why "some in BBN" get a bad rep. He just has that very formal...Kentucky fans take. And him calling people stupid is the most comical thing I've read on here.
LOL! I have watched a ton of T-Wolves games because of KAT. Wiggins is nice but not a superstar. Dude is a shooting guard that shoots below 30% from three. For most superstars they make the leap to superstar level at year two. With the numbers Andrew has he won't even sniff a reserve spot on the All-Star team. Compare that to Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving and Blake Griffin's second years.
Cal is down 88-87 to Richmond with 11.7 seconds left in the consolation game of the Vegas Invitational. The Spiders have committed a couple dumb fouls to allow Cal and ones when they should have just been layups. Richmond has shot lights out from three in the second half.