In major UK accomplishments during their respective tenures. In eight years Rick went to three Final Fours, including a championship and a runner up. Cal in six years has went to four Final Fours, with a championship and a runner-up. Cal will just keep separating their UK resumes the longer he stays
Cal has officially passed Pitino.........
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Not a fan of Pitino, but to be fair, he did inherit quite a mess from Sutton. Granted, Cal also inherited Clyde's mess, but it wasn't nearly as bad as the serious terms of probation in 1989 when Pitino came on board. I would take Cal over Pitino any day, but comparing the tenures of two is apples and oranges IMO. No objective fan can demean or discredit what Pitino accomplished at UK.
No........Cal had to come in and deal with BCG's mess. None of BCG's recruits were kept and Cal basically had to start from scratch.
About the same difference as I see it!
This. If Pitino could recruit like Cal, I would take him back in a heartbeat. And to the guy talking about integrity...let's not get carried away. Neither one is a model of integrity but they win, and fans are usually willing to look the other way when they're winning.
This post was edited on 4/11 11:51 AM by CharlestownCat
This post was edited on 4/11 11:51 AM by CharlestownCat
If you do that, Calipari still wins.
1992 -- Elite Eight 2010 Elite Eight
1993 -- FInal Four 2011 FInal Four
1994 -- Rd of 32 2012 National Champions
1995 -- Elite Eight 2013 NIT
1996 -- National Champions 2014 Runner Up
1997 -- Runner Up 2015 Final Four
I think you have to give it to Pitino as he didn't have a NIT year.
1992 -- Elite Eight 2010 Elite Eight
1993 -- FInal Four 2011 FInal Four
1994 -- Rd of 32 2012 National Champions
1995 -- Elite Eight 2013 NIT
1996 -- National Champions 2014 Runner Up
1997 -- Runner Up 2015 Final Four
I think you have to give it to Pitino as he didn't have a NIT year.
Patterson was a huge part of the 2010 team and Orton played a part. No 2011 final four without Harrellson, Liggins and Miller. Miller was also a huge part of the 2012 Title team. As horrible as Billy was He left Patterson, Orton, Harrellson, Liggins and Miller. Pitino was not left with anything close to that kind of talent.
This post was edited on 4/11 1:23 PM by permdaddy
This has never been true.
When Pitino came in the /roster/ was worse and postseason play was gone for three years (in an era when even elite players stayed three years---hence Rick's so so recruting haul in his first year only). But the brand was still alive. That was a very big part of Rick's success, and why he never came close at Louisville.
When Cal came the brand was dead. It wasn't just dead it was long dead. No kid with any amount of talent had done anything but laugh at Tubby has last two years, and then by the end of the Gillispie experiment, no one was even laughing anymore. The joke was too old. SEC teams were humiliating us, and not with any Rupp Arena adrenaline heroics: they were just pushing up around because they were SO much better 1 to 5 and 1 to 10. PPat was the sole exception to that rule, and he was not coming if Tubby stayed and not staying if Cal didn't come.
The distinction some of you are trying to draw is upside down. Cal had a HARDER job than Rick. NCAA gave us some sanctions in 88 but Tubby and Gillispie gave us the death penalty. If not for Cal we would be Indiana right now, only without their in-state talent. Cal alone saved us from that and it's time some of you appreciated it.
Pitino had a massive mess to overcome. I don't think some that comment on this were even alive then.
Cal inherited a deflated situation. No doubt. But it wasn't anything like Kentucky Shame. Cal could also revamp the roster immidiately, which he did, and immediately win. Pitino had no such situation.
Also Rick is responsible for taking kentuxky to the next level in the modern era. And he did it with lots of damaged goods from the past regimes. He also taught kentucky how to win without the "old ways".
I love cal, but discrediting what pitino did here is something you will NEVER get me to do.
Cal inherited a deflated situation. No doubt. But it wasn't anything like Kentucky Shame. Cal could also revamp the roster immidiately, which he did, and immediately win. Pitino had no such situation.
Also Rick is responsible for taking kentuxky to the next level in the modern era. And he did it with lots of damaged goods from the past regimes. He also taught kentucky how to win without the "old ways".
I love cal, but discrediting what pitino did here is something you will NEVER get me to do.
Pitino inherited a disaster from Sutton. Says a lot they were 14-14 after year one and 22-6 after year two. He was 214-50, and that was rebuilding. Cal had Patterson and Miller already and he brought his own players in. I'm not even going to say that's a rebuilding job. I'm grateful for Pitino and his time here, and even more thankful for Cal.
I was alive and well and paying attention through the whole Sutton/post-Sutton story, S&C. Pitino took us to the next level in the modern era? What is that supposed to mean that is somehow more important than Cal ending our longest //ever// Final Four drought? I respect you a lot as a poster, and I am not trying to make you disrespect Pitino. What he accomplished here was invaluable, and deserves to remain a cherished part of our amazing history. I am just saddened that so many people fail to appreciate Cal's even more amazing turnaround...by failing to appreciate the even greater danger we were in as a program before Cal walked through that door.
I wonder how many championships we would have had Pitino stayed. Before anyone lets their feelings about Pitino get in the way of objective thinking, I will say two things which I believe with all my being... Cal is a great coach and I have never liked anyone better at that position than he is for lots of reasons but the number 1 reason is because of the way he treats people....2 I believe Pitino would have won more championships in the same period of time that Cal has been here.. so just have at it.
It's pretty simple. Cal 1 title and FOUR Final Fours. Pitino 1 title and THREE Final Fours. Slight Edge to Cal and that gap will grown in years, but to be fair...both can only really be fairly measured on their 6 year runs. And everytime people want to use the NIT against Cal I'll remind you that if Noel does not get hurt UK makes the tourney and probably makes it to...gasp...the 2nd round like Pitino's worst year...if not further. UK should have got in anyways, but the committee utilized the Noel injury to invent a reason to let Boise freakin State and MTSU in over them.
Disagree.
1. He did not do so in his 6 glory years at UK in the 90s.
2. He would not have the same teams, so if that is what you are getting on...asanine argument as Pitino cannot recruit like Coach Cal. Recruiting is a major part of coaching, whether some on here want to believe it or not. The players are coming here due to Cal, and Cal being at UK.
Blue, I am aware that cal had an uphill battle to climb, but the two just aren't the same.
I respect you as a poster as well, I just disagree with you here. What I mean by Rick and the modern era comment, was he took us from the old way into the new. People forget how revolutionary pitino was here. The defenses, the adjustments to what recruits wanted (uniforms), taking into new ways of obtaining talent etc. Pitino was a actually more like Cal then, vs. Now. We were in an absolute mess when pitino came in. So bad that our AD at the time second guessed him coming, and couldn't figure out why he even wanted the job. By the time cal wanted to come here, the foundation of who we were as a program had already been set. In large part, by Rick Pitino.
Let me ask you this. Are you from louisville? Or do you have lots of friends and family from louisville or that root for them? Just curious.
I respect you as a poster as well, I just disagree with you here. What I mean by Rick and the modern era comment, was he took us from the old way into the new. People forget how revolutionary pitino was here. The defenses, the adjustments to what recruits wanted (uniforms), taking into new ways of obtaining talent etc. Pitino was a actually more like Cal then, vs. Now. We were in an absolute mess when pitino came in. So bad that our AD at the time second guessed him coming, and couldn't figure out why he even wanted the job. By the time cal wanted to come here, the foundation of who we were as a program had already been set. In large part, by Rick Pitino.
Let me ask you this. Are you from louisville? Or do you have lots of friends and family from louisville or that root for them? Just curious.
#8 the notion that pitino wasn't a good recruiter back then isn't the case. He was also a master at finding his "type" and molding them. Pitino made an incredible rep for himself with recruits coming out of 1996. We were in on several top 10 players, and I remember quite well thinking the future was about to be insane back then. Then he bolted.
I also don't believe you can use his first 6 years as a measuring stick for his next 6 years. Two totally different situations in time.
Pitino would have at least 3 championships right now had he stayed at UK. I just have no doubts about it.winning is hard at louisville, and he's done it in droves. Relate that to what he left here, and there should be no question.
I also don't believe you can use his first 6 years as a measuring stick for his next 6 years. Two totally different situations in time.
Pitino would have at least 3 championships right now had he stayed at UK. I just have no doubts about it.winning is hard at louisville, and he's done it in droves. Relate that to what he left here, and there should be no question.
Have you forgotten 96-98 and when he left he had the type teams he wanted, heck this year he took a team that couldn't shoot a lick to within one game of the final four... and before you bring the accusation against me that I am trumpeting him over Cal I do prefer Cals methods and what he is as a man, but don't believe for a minute he can out coach Pitino.
Good point. And if Brown had not got hurt in 93 probably 3.
And I did not mention Anderson because Pitino chose to sit him despite him being available according to people in the know. I agree, if Anderson plays they win.
You can make the same argument for WCS last year, and Poythress this year...although I'm much less convinced of WCS after his performance against Wisconsin this year that he would won the game last year against UCONN. Even he said he would not go that far to say that...I think Poythress this year would have helped on D, but O was our problem against Wisconsin at the end and he is inconsistent there for the most part.
Let's not bring injury to the mix...Look at Coach Cal...
1. Kanter being banned (BULL ****)
2. Nerlens getting injured (damn it), not to mention WCS getting injured, Harrow being unstable, ....
3. WCS getting injured (damn it)
4. Poythress getting injured (damn it)
Coach Cal has death with a lot of unfortunate thing...Seriously unfortunate. When Poythress got injured there was HUGE shift in defensive efficiency while offensive efficiency didn't move much. As season progressed our offensive efficiency improved (Gradually).
What Coach Cal has accomplished within this 6 years with the amount of BS/injury he dealt with is IMPRESSIVE. Insane to be exact.
Wrong. Pitino has won right at 50% of close games in his career (I believe close is defined as 5 points or less with 5 minutes or less to go in regulation). Among top flight coaches (Cal, K, Roy, etc.) that is by quite a margin the worst. All the others win at or above 60%,of those games. With Rick, it's basically a coin flip.
The debate about how much worse UK was when Pitino took over CS when Cal took over is irrelevant - we're talking about the 6 years Pitino was tournament eligible. He had 2 years after he got here before the clock started.
Pretty simple. Each has 6 years. Pitino was 22-5, Cal was 22-4; Pitino had 3 final fours, Cal has 4. Cal wins......
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