Cal has completely lost control of this program

bnewt

Heisman
May 29, 2001
8,853
11,022
113
Calipari had us a last second shot away from the Final Four and probably a championship in 2017 as a 2 seed. He had us a free throw away from a Final Four and probably a championship in 2019. He had us at what would have been a 2 seed last season. He has totally ruined this program!!

maybe, but he had the best team in the country his 1st year with Cuz & Wall, yet wasn't smart enough to run a play against a zone defense playing a team without one of its better players

in 2015 he had the 2 best teams in the country & couldn't get it done because he wasn't smart enough to tell the ball hog twins to pass the ball to KAT

if those aren't example enough of his inability to coach, today was another perfect example,
your best scoring threat does not even get a shot because the coach isn't smart enough to design a play to get him the ball in scoring position

keep drinking the blue koolaid & look thru your blue tinted glasses, and tell yourself everyone else is wrong
 

SmedMoley

All-American
Nov 14, 2020
3,690
7,959
0
Just saying chicken little shows it’s all good. Kids quitting on the team last year, kids arguing with the coach, kids crying on the bench, transfers etc., but Cal’s got this under control.
It's all your imagination! We are really 6-0 and Boston is projected #1 on the draft boards. That must be the case for so many not noticing what's going on.

"It's only one bad season". No. One bad season is the symptom of the disease. 2013 should have opened some eyes. It showed the fragility of this philosophy.
 

Oneandnotdone38

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2020
843
1,128
0
When Cal started his OAD philosophy he was ahead of the curve. Now he doesn't even get the best players. He hasn't adjusted. While other have. Good coaches adjust with the times.

And the game is about three point shooting now. So what does Cal do? Recruit a long talented team that can't shoot. Brilliant.
 

willievic

All-American
Aug 28, 2005
6,167
7,114
0
Yep , swallowed him up so much that we were one of the top 5 or 6 teams heading into last years tournament. You couldn’t be more wrong. Don’t overreact to this brutal season.

We're one of the top 5 or 6 teams in the last 4 or 5 years, but what has it got us. We have not made a FF in the last 5 years, and this year is a CRAP SHOOT. We always get good ratings because of our talent level. Everyone always expects the team to jell, because of the talent Cal recruits. It's one thing to recruit that talent, and another to coach it. I'll take a team with 2 or 3 Juniors, a Senior and a Soph. or Freshman to round it out, who know how to pass, run plays and shoot.

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!

OLD STOLL FIELD GUY!
 

MNantz

Heisman
Dec 20, 2001
9,086
11,921
98
Yep , swallowed him up so much that we were one of the top 5 or 6 teams heading into last years tournament. You couldn’t be more wrong. Don’t overreact to this brutal season.
Hell they react to not winning by enough last two years, so there having a field day now. Just plain stupid to make the comments they make , I just consider the source .
 

MakinMusic_rivals

All-Conference
Mar 21, 2006
10,723
3,607
66
Losing Kenny Payne turned a downward slide into a freefall


By the way, I'd give Payne a chance to be a temporary HC, if a home run hire ( Stevens, Donovan ) can't be made. Wouldn't even cost one tenth of Cal's salary, no more OAD crap, players respect him. What's not to like?

Payne is not a college head coach. I believe that is why he moved on to the NBA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KyFaninNC

STL_Cat

Heisman
Dec 4, 2011
65,180
58,351
98
Hell they react to not winning by enough last two years, so there having a field day now. Just plain stupid to make the comments they make , I just consider the source .

So I understand your position ... you’re not concerned about this 1-5 start or the direction of the program at all?
 

fisherscat

All-Conference
Feb 9, 2005
11,283
4,714
0
Maybe Cal can turn it around and this season will just be an ugly blip.

I’m assuming that’s what some Cal fans believe. Hope they are right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: richbrookstomato
Sep 13, 2003
23,905
33,655
0
Maybe Cal can turn it around and this season will just be an ugly blip.

I’m assuming that’s what some Cal fans believe. Hope they are right.
That would be my preferred outcome. I want Cal to change the way he approaches his roster so we don't end up in this position EVER again. Will he swallow his pride and fix it?
 

ZaytovenCat

All-American
Apr 25, 2013
24,121
8,945
97
We’re all pissed at Cal but to say unrelenting stupid **** like you were down on Cal one year after a championship and two years before we almost went undefeated is some of the dumbest **** I’ve ever heard. Might as well post a “I’m a dumbass” sticker on your forehead. Good lord, shut up.
I meant I saw it coming that players would do the way they have. I didn’t think at that time that Cal would end up THIS bad.
 

UKortho

Heisman
Oct 13, 2015
5,163
10,060
77
I can definitely see some of these dudes “opting out” to prepare for the draft. Then, Cal will be forced to play Allen and he will potentially be made to look ever worse if Allen does well.
I don’t see any players opting out for the draft. These guys aren’t even close.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: yoshukai

TankedCat

Heisman
Nov 8, 2006
22,792
21,500
0
That would be my preferred outcome. I want Cal to change the way he approaches his roster so we don't end up in this position EVER again. Will he swallow his pride and fix it?
You don't get to Ca'sl position and have the luxury of two garbage years in a row. The pandemic will buy you some run but if Cal is in a rinse , lather and repeat mode of coaching with his system, no one will blame UK for wanting a change in direction and quite frankly the basketball world in general will collectively shake their head with Cal asking him "what were you thinking?"

For a $9m coach at a blueblood, you don't get 2 consecutively bad seasons, if by May we have roster turnover and recruiting looks to be a shotgun approach to collecting athletes, then I'm guessing something is done. It won't be a $25m buyout. Mitch loses his job if that happens.

For that matter, a coach in Cal's position shouldn't have two NITs in a span of 10 years

Are we there at this point in the season? At the moment we aren't even good enough for the NIT.

Just chew on that for a bit.
 

Elliott Tim

All-American
Dec 10, 2005
10,122
6,290
0
Like I've said many times. Cal created the beast that is swallowing him whole. The One and Done jumped the shark a while ago....it just finally caught up to him to cause a season bad enough to jar normal people into seeing the problems
The next coach and thereafter will never meet our expectations. Has nothing to do with my like or dislike for Cal. I shutter to think how it would have been had we had S.M. years ago.
 
Sep 13, 2003
23,905
33,655
0
You don't get to Ca'sl position and have the luxury of two garbage years in a row. The pandemic will buy you some run but if Cal is in a rinse , lather and repeat mode of coaching with his system, no one will blame UK for wanting a change in direction and quite frankly the basketball world in general will collectively shake their head with Cal asking him "what were you thinking?"

For a $9m coach at a blueblood, you don't get 2 consecutively bad seasons, if by May we have roster turnover and recruiting looks to be a shotgun approach to collecting athletes, then I'm guessing something is done. It won't be a $25m buyout. Mitch loses his job if that happens.

For that matter, a coach in Cal's position shouldn't have two NITs in a span of 10 years

Are we there at this point in the season? At the moment we aren't even good enough for the NIT.

Just chew on that for a bit.
Mitch's problem is he gave Cal a LIFETIME CONTRACT. So, UK either comes up with the money to buy him out or Cal gets tired of all of the questioning of his methods. The Main thing Mitch has in his favor is Cal's EGO. If he values his legacy, he will either change his approach or bow out.

I really can't see Cal going through another season like this one and not caring about how the basketball world sees him. He has ALWAYS had an insecurity about how he is viewed by his peers, it's what drove him to succeed. Now that he is struggling, he KNOWS he can't continue to do things this way.

That's why I hope he CHANGES and bounces UK and himself back, it would be what is best for everyone involved. I would HATE to see him remain STUBBORN and destroy his legacy and UK's!!!
 

UKortho

Heisman
Oct 13, 2015
5,163
10,060
77
As if that matters. We had 3 guys leave for the NBA last year that went undrafted.
I don’t see any players opting out of this season to prepare for the draft. If they were good, yes. But they aren’t.
 

TankedCat

Heisman
Nov 8, 2006
22,792
21,500
0
Mitch's problem is he gave Cal a LIFETIME CONTRACT. So, UK either comes up with the money to buy him out or Cal gets tired of all of the questioning of his methods. The Main thing Mitch has in his favor is Cal's EGO. If he values his legacy, he will either change his approach or bow out.

I really can't see Cal going through another season like this one and not caring about how the basketball world sees him. He has ALWAYS had an insecurity about how he is viewed by his peers, it's what drove him to succeed. Now that he is struggling, he KNOWS he can't continue to do things this way.

That's why I hope he CHANGES and bounces UK and himself back, it would be what is best for everyone involved. I would HATE to see him remain STUBBORN and destroy his legacy and UK's!!!

looking into Cal's contract, basically it says that the University has no intention of terminating him as coach unless there is cause tied to a major NCAA infraction, however there is specific wording in his contract that is interesting


Any and all reasonable actions to sustain and increase student and fan interest and support of the men’s basketball program to generate substantial net revenue for the Athletic Department and the University



All Matters pertaining to the operation of the University’s men's basketball program shall be subject to the ultimate direction and control of the director of Athletics



Coach shall administer the daily routine and organization of the program as he deems necessary to effectuate its success, provided such administration shall be in accordance with the policies established by the Director of Athletics and the University


After 2024 Coach shall have the option to step down as Head Men’s Basketball Coach and become special Assistant to the Athletic director


so, full disclaimer, I am not a lawyer nor have I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express, however from my laymans perspective on the contract itself.....

There is little argument that he has not made any changes to sustain or increase student and fan interest in the program, and as a result , student and fan interest in the program has declined noticeably and it is affecting net revenue. Matter of fact I would argue that he has intentionally jeopardized fan interest by continuing to push his agenda in direct conflict with data showing fan interest decreases year over year tied in part at least to his player turnover.

Also he has openly admitted his disdain for the SEC tournament, which was a major focal point for fan attendance.

Since he has direct input on who we schedule (its in the contract), he also has knowingly selected programs to play at Rupp that decrease fan interest while choosing to play marquee games in large arenas away from Lexington in locations like New York and Las Vegas.

and contrary to what some believe, Cal completely answers to Mitch via the terms of his contract. Mitch says jump, Cal says how high - at least in the contract. So Mitch has the ability to tell Cal what he will and won't do in regards to recruiting, scheduling, assistant coaches, etc should he feel the need to do so.

refusal to address either of those would be breach of contract but it would not qualify as cause which would seem to be a pretty gray area.
 
Last edited:

steven.coffey

Redshirt
Nov 29, 2009
651
16
18
To me the bottom line is this. We’re 1-5 for the first time in almost a century. There is a problem. The solution? Debatable. But saying it’s a “down year” is a vast understatement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: STL_Cat

ArtLaibsGhost_rivals

All-American
Dec 6, 2020
4,710
8,736
0
The only way Cal can salvage his standing here IMO is to ditch most of his assistants and hire a Harry Lancaster type assistant. He was a huge part of Rupps success and Cal has nobody even close assisting him.
 
Sep 13, 2003
23,905
33,655
0
looking into Cal's contract, basically it says that the University has no intention of terminating him as coach unless there is cause tied to a major NCAA infraction, however there is specific wording in his contract that is interesting


Any and all reasonable actions to sustain and increase student and fan interest and support of the men’s basketball program to generate substantial net revenue for the Athletic Department and the University



All Matters pertaining to the operation of the University’s men's basketball program shall be subject to the ultimate direction and control of the director of Athletics



Coach shall administer the daily routine and organization of the program as he deems necessary to effectuate its success, provided such administration shall be in accordance with the policies established by the Director of Athletics and the University


After 2024 Coach shall have the option to step down as Head Men’s Basketball Coach and become special Assistant to the Athletic director


so, full disclaimer, I am not a lawyer nor have I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express, however from my laymans perspective on the contract itself.....

There is little argument that he has not made any changes to sustain or increase student and fan interest in the program, and as a result , student and fan interest in the program has declined noticeably and it is affecting net revenue. Matter of fact I would argue that he has intentionally jeopardized fan interest by continuing to push his agenda in direct conflict with data showing fan interest decreases year over year tied in part at least to his player turnover.

Also he has openly admitted his disdain for the SEC tournament, which was a major focal point for fan attendance.

Since he has direct input on who we schedule (its in the contract), he also has knowingly selected programs to play at Rupp that decrease fan interest while choosing to play marquee games in large arenas away from Lexington in locations like New York and Las Vegas.

and contrary to what some believe, Cal completely answers to Mitch via the terms of his contract. Mitch says jump, Cal says how high - at least in the contract. So Mitch as least has the ability to tell Cal what he will and won't do in regards to recruiting, scheduling, assistant coaches, etc should he feel the need to do so.

refusal to address either of those would be breach of contract but it would not qualify as cause which would seem to be a pretty gray area.
Mitch still has to pay him 75% of his remaining contract if he doesn't resign on his own. I hate that UK is in that position, but here we are. Once again, thanks Mitch. However those clauses, along with Cal's tremendous EGO and hunger for acknowledgement, could be our Ace in the Hole.

Cal wants to be in TOTAL control of his program. If that is taken away, he could very well just resign and move on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: nickhorvathsuxazz

Tapemaster8

All-Conference
Feb 9, 2003
14,659
3,921
98
Two thots:

Allen will get some pt against UL And in the first half

As to underachiever comments.

In Cal’s NCAA tourney losses how often have the Cats been favored?
Not really sure but think they were dogs In ‘16 & ‘17, both losses.

Thinking they were favorites in all the others but someone will correct me if I’m wrong
If Cal doesn’t set some screens for Allen and tell the high profile freshman to get him the ball Allen won’t score either
 

know1

Heisman
Dec 8, 2002
12,855
14,925
0
Cal hit his Zenith with the 38-1 team,and from then on, its been on a steady decline.Yeah a couple final eight's but when he got outcoached against an undermanned Auburn team in the final Eight,that was when I knew,he probably isn't gonna win another championship here
Wrong. You don't hit your zenith with a team that didn't win it all. That team wasn't even dominant the second half of the season. If he could coach at all, that team would have won the championship easily.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KyFaninNC

TankedCat

Heisman
Nov 8, 2006
22,792
21,500
0
Mitch still has to pay him 75% of his remaining contract if he doesn't resign on his own. I hate that UK is in that position, but here we are. Once again, thanks Mitch. However those clauses, along with Cal's tremendous EGO and hunger for acknowledgement, could be our Ace in the Hole.

Cal wants to be in TOTAL control of his program. If that is taken away, he could very well just resign and move on.
I honestly wouldn't know but those things I pointed out weren't added just to fill up the contract page. He definitely can be fired for cause and if so, would not receive any money, unfortunately cause isn't defined as implementing a system that turns in a historically bad performance. The University in their infinite wisdom wrote the contract to focus "cause" solely on NCAA violations and avoided any discussion as it relates to on court performance.

however, for breach of contract to exist , the University would have to prove Cal's failure to perform caused specific damages OR his refusal to implement specific changes did so - and their strongest case is student and fan support spelled out in the contract.

You have to believe after the start to this season, there will be changes, either implemented by Cal and agreed upon by Mitch or demanded by Mitch as AD. If not, then a legitimate case of breach of contract would exist.

No matter how bad it gets this season, I doubt it will be addressed publicly, but I do believe Mitch and or Cal will talk about changes that will be happening in the program at the end of the season and I'd be willing to bet those changes deal directly or indirectly in the areas that constitute breach of contract with the University

For example, does anyone remember Mitch demanding that Tubby make changes to his staff in his last season before leaving? The demand was leaked to the public and not kept behind closed doors. Why would Mitch do that?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: richbrookstomato

RunninRichie

Heisman
Sep 5, 2019
29,009
69,871
113
Wrong. You don't hit your zenith with a team that didn't win it all. That team wasn't even dominant the second half of the season. If he could coach at all, that team would have won the championship easily.
We lost our steam because numb nuts went away from the platoon TO SAVE HIS PLAYERS DRAFT STOCK! that should piss UK fans off to no end! the guy picked 8 draft picks over 40-0 and a title. Screw him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John Henry

TankedCat

Heisman
Nov 8, 2006
22,792
21,500
0
some interesting perspective from Mitch from an interview in 2007
-------------------------------
Is your coach on the hot seat......

I was getting a lot of requests from people to comment on Kentucky basketball. And I felt like I wanted people to understand we were paying attention to it. And we clearly understand the frustration, but we also are clear to, you know, that we'll work at it at the end of the year to figure out what we need to do to be better _ to get where we want to be. With the understanding that, you know, fourth in our division is not where we want to be. And, you know, 8th seeds _ although we're in tournament _ not probably where Kentucky's used to being. So, those are things. I think people read way too much into it, but I wasn't going to sit down with every person individually and I wasn't going to sit down with every television radio station or media person individually. I wasn't going to answer every e-mail individually. So, I just globally wanted people to understand, look, we're paying attention. We'll do, we'll make the adjustments at the end of the year we need to make, and we'll get on with it. By not saying something, everybody, I think would have thought we didn't care or we weren't paying attention to the things that were going on in our program.

asked about approaching Tubby to change assistant coaches

We're always going to try and get better. And Tubby and I have talked about, you know, what do we need to do to be better? Those are conversations we have all the time. That's no different than I do with any other coach. You know, we sit down with all our coaches at the end of the year - what have we done well, what have we not done well, what do we need to do to make the progress we want to be? Our goal in this department, across the board, is to achieve the five things we talk collectively and the principles of our program. There's five things in there. One of those five things is competitiveness, and we talk about competing for championships. Not just SEC championships, that's the big championship. That's the goal is to do that in our sports programs, and we're gaining ground on that in a lot of our sports programs. Basketball's had the good fortune of having been there seven times. That's a little bit of a stage for them - a standard, not a stage - a standard for them to have to aspire to that's a little different from the rest of our sports programs. We do that. This is our operation - the way we run our operation - is very similar from sport to sport. It doesn't vary from track to baseball, from soccer to rifle, from football to basketball. We're pretty consistent in the way we run those, and the expectation levels and the way we operate year in and year out, the way we treat the adjustments we need to make is pretty consistent.

on Fan criticism

I don't think you could be in our business, I mean you could sit here and say that it doesn't get to you. Whether sitting in this chair as athletic director, or head basketball coach or head football coach. I think you get a little numb to it at times. Having said that, you hear it. What bothers me most is people can be so disrespectful to people as human beings. I feel bad for coaches when they're not treated as human beings. I think that there's, I want people to be treated well. There's a way to do things right, and there's a way to not do them. I think the goal is to treat people well.
 

SandyBell'sFaxMachine

All-Conference
Dec 3, 2020
1,517
2,432
113
It’s as shocking as it is disheartening. The one and done model and brand has come back to swallow him up and there’s nothing he can do about it. Players crying over playing time, worried about draft status, Brooks addressing the media. Huh?

It’s time. It’s time. Thanks Cal for a pretty good run. But it’s time.
Brooks addressing the media. I'm not disagreeing or calling fake news, I just don't know what you are talking about and would like to see/ read it. So I have a better understanding. I like to keep up on every team we have. Please and thank you. I'd like to see or hear what he said. I missed it I'm pretty sure
 

westerncat

Heisman
Feb 19, 2012
15,923
20,891
0
I'm not sure Cal can fix this problem at this point. He made too much of a public fuss about loving to send guys to the NBA. So that is the only kind of players he can attract now....kids that already have one foot out the door. Those who can leave. Those who fail to make the draft after one season transfer. These kinds of players have a loser mindset. They expect things to be given to them rather than earned. They are mentally weak. And that is why they suck.

Yet we can't break this cycle because the kids we have coming here these days all have this mindset. Cal would have to come out immediately and start making a big deal in a very public way that any kid who expects to be one and done should avoid UK, that they aren't wanted here. And even then I'm not sure you could change things. There has just been too much of established history to break the cycle. The only way to break this cycle is to completely change the culture of the program. I don't think we can do that as long as Cal is still here.

I hate it. I wish it didn't have to be done. But Cal has to go. And it isn't like he hasn't seen the warning signs. Hell, many of us here have been able to see this coming for years. His stated goals are incompatible with UK basketball. And now we are in a cycle of failure that we can't recover from until we totally change the mentality around this program. As long as Cal remains, all we are going to do is attract these same kind of soft kids seeking instant gratification, rather than the tigers willing to fight for everything they get.

My God, what I would give right now to have a team made up of guys like Pitino's first team here. Those guys were warriors. If they ever cried, it was because they hated losing. It wasn't because any of them were worrying about their draft stock. We need to start bringing in more kids with a blue collar approach to getting things done, the kind of kids we always seemed to have a few of in the days before Cal brought this ****** *** NBA culture here.


This is a very good post. I think this is the way most of us feel.
 

ruppcat

All-American
Jan 1, 2003
3,698
5,185
0
maybe, but he had the best team in the country his 1st year with Cuz & Wall, yet wasn't smart enough to run a play against a zone defense playing a team without one of its better players

in 2015 he had the 2 best teams in the country & couldn't get it done because he wasn't smart enough to tell the ball hog twins to pass the ball to KAT

if those aren't example enough of his inability to coach, today was another perfect example,
your best scoring threat does not even get a shot because the coach isn't smart enough to design a play to get him the ball in scoring position

keep drinking the blue koolaid & look thru your blue tinted glasses, and tell yourself everyone else is wrong
UK was 4-32 from 3 that night. 16-29 FTs. 24 OR v 10 OR for wv.

Our best 3 pt shooter, Bledsoe, was 0-5 from 3.

The game was ours to win that night.

And after shooting 10/23 from 3 against UK and getting 34 FT attempts what do they do against pUKe? 5-12 from 3 and 14-19 FTs.

Never fails.