BUY/SELL: The biggest attendance issue...

[horshack.sixpack]

...setting aside team performance, because our crowds have sucked all year (although post-Auburn poor performance may be a valid excuse). I don't think that the ease of sitting home and watching the game on TV tells the whole story. I think that the primary issue is that televised games removes the school's ability to schedule games at appropriate times.

There are some games that I would choose to go to if they were 6-7 kicks, even if the team was a crappy opponent, but I'm not sitting through an 11AM misery fest. In the past, when we had few games televised, we typically scheduled to fit the weather and supported attendance in that way and I rarely missed a game.

The single biggest stadium improvement we could make at this point is some cantilevered top that provides some protection from the elements for fans while remaining open in the middle to keep real grass happy.

 

[MSUDC11]

It is what it is. We had one day game at home all season last year, and it was in November. This year has been the opposite extreme. Most seasons are pretty balanced in regard to day vs night games.

I will say that next year could be a real problem, though. Just not a very good home schedule, and diminished excitement from the fan base too barring a really strong finish to the year.

 

[Captain Ron]

I certainly think it is a combination of things including the plethora of games on TV, but the timing of the games is huge, at least it is to me.

The game is but one part of the experience IMO. The game day atmosphere, buildup, socializing etc are all part of what many of us “pay” for. An 11am kick when it is 94 degrees all but eliminates all of that except the game. Throw in a “struggling” home team and a less than exciting opponent and it becomes a tougher choice... especially for those that have to travel long distances.

I get why we have the kickoffs at 11 (we have had them since the Raycom days), but I sure wish there was some some limit/alternatives especially in Sept. I remember sitting through the Texas game in Jackie’s first year thinking the same thing.

Like the playoff, terrible slot times for kickoffs etc, they all have the upside (tv money) but the way all that is structured I believe is having a detrimental effect that may end up driving down that “upside” in the future.

There really needs an to be an objective evaluation by the powers that be of where this sport is headed.

 

[dickiedawg]

It's been a hot September, and all the day games certainly did not help. That's the biggest factor.
But I really think the bubble has burst on college football attendance. It's declining nationwide and has been for several years. It's too easy to sit at home and watch the game, along with all the other games going on at the same time.

 

[dorndawg]

Agree with your assessments. I'd add, as someone who never comes to games, I do like 11am kickoffs. I fully realize having a lot of 11s isn't a good thing. But yeah it looks like the days of chilly late September (hell, early October) games are over, so need to get more shade up quick.

 

[ronpolk]

...setting aside team performance, because our crowds have sucked all year (although post-Auburn poor performance may be a valid excuse). I don't think that the ease of sitting home and watching the game on TV tells the whole story. I think that the primary issue is that televised games removes the school's ability to schedule games at appropriate times.

There are some games that I would choose to go to if they were 6-7 kicks, even if the team was a crappy opponent, but I'm not sitting through an 11AM misery fest. In the past, when we had few games televised, we typically scheduled to fit the weather and supported attendance in that way and I rarely missed a game.

The single biggest stadium improvement we could make at this point is some cantilevered top that provides some protection from the elements for fans while remaining open in the middle to keep real grass happy.

The Dolphins did something like what you’re taking about with the canopy they installed at hard rock stadium. It’s very nice and helpful with the heat.

What I think will start to happen with college stadiums is renovations to take out bleachers and add chairbacks. This will make capacity smaller but it will also make it more comfortable.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I like the look of Husky Stadium's cantilevered tops.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Heck, they could easily adjust their calculation for how wide a butt is and "remove" some of the bleacher style seats and it be more comfortable without adding chair backs.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

Biggest attendance issue is crappy games. I think P5 schools should play 11 P5 schools per year. Team performance is crucial to fill up the stadium, but as long as the team is considered "good" by the fan base, if the quality of opponents is high, I would think more people would go.

Beating the **** outta Abilene Christian is no long enticing unless it's one of the only or few games a fan can make. That's my opinion.

 

[L4Dawg]

Biggest attendance issue is crappy games. I think P5 schools should play 11 P5 schools per year. Team performance is crucial to fill up the stadium, but as long as the team is considered "good" by the fan base, if the quality of opponents is high, I would think more people would go.

Beating the **** outta Abilene Christian is no long enticing unless it's one of the only or few games a fan can make. That's my opinion.

So you go to see the opponent, not MSU. Got it.

 

[Puppychow]

As a customer of MSU sports I don’t get worked up over attendance. I shop at Walmart, and I could care less if the store is packed. Let Walmart worry about that. I like a little elbow room and short lines.

 

[Go Budaw]

So you go to see the opponent, not MSU. Got it.

So you’d be fine if MSU ditched the SEC and started playing in the Sun Belt since you don’t care about the opponents? Got it.

 

[RocketDawg]

It's several things, and I don't think a lot of it, at least initially, was team performance.

The worst is that there were 3 home games in a row. Next is that it was ridiculously hot. I'm sure this is the hottest late summer/early fall on record. Yesterday here the high was 100, and that was October 2 -- unprecedented.

Our first home game was Southern Miss, which was well-attended given the heat and time of day. Then there was Kansas State, which didn't generate much interest because they are non-conference and most thought they'd be a pushover. The Kentucky game suffered from the heat, time of day, and the fact that it was the 3rd of 3 consecutive home games. Most fans don't live in or near Starkville, so 3 long trips on consecutive weekends are hard to do.

Television is a factor. Losses are becoming a factor, but only one of those losses was really unexpected (but not to the extent that we were blown out in the expected loss). Assuming we win a couple of the next four games, all away, fans will be back in force for Alabama. If somehow we lose all 4, Bama fans will outnumber State fans.

We didn't get season tickets this year for the first time in about 25 years. There were several reasons, the most major being getting older for the long trips, and honestly, lousy seats in the club level after paying the same premium that those on the 50 yard line pay. It wasn't the money, but the principle. The decision had nothing to do with Joe or expected wins and losses. We went through the Croom era ....

 

[RocketDawg]

Agree with your assessments. I'd add, as someone who never comes to games, I do like 11am kickoffs. I fully realize having a lot of 11s isn't a good thing. But yeah it looks like the days of chilly late September (hell, early October) games are over, so need to get more shade up quick.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that 20 years ago, heat was seldom a factor. At most games it was at least a bit chilly, or we were freezing. It's not been that way recently. I don't think there's a reasonable way to provide shade, particularly to those in the lower levels.

 

[RocketDawg]

So you go to see the opponent, not MSU. Got it.

Wouldn't you rather see State play Alabama or Auburn or LSU at home than you would see them play Maine or Massachusetts? Most fans would rather see a big-name opponent. It's perfectly normal.

 

[thatsbaseball]

"We didn't get season tickets this year for the first time in about 25 years. There were several reasons, the most major being getting older for the long trips, and honestly, lousy seats in the club level after paying the same premium that those on the 50 yard line pay. It wasn't the money, but the principle. The decision had nothing to do with Joe or expected wins and losses. We went through the Croom era ....[/QUOTE]

This is happening a lot. The commercialization and greed that has permeated college football will eventually take a greater and greater toll. Putting it another way, it just ain't as much fun as it used to be.

 

[patdog]

Heat has always been a factor for September day games. But this was the hottest September on record and we had 3 day games in the middle of it.

 

[GhostOfJackie]

It's a combination of things, and different reasons for different people. I keep saying this, but for me the most important factor is making the west side more comfortable with shortening the length of the aisles so you don't have to walk past 100 people to get out, doing something (anything) with those steps, and making the concessions more accessible with shorter lines and better food. That's just me though. I'll still come to most home games even if they are in the middle of the heat and we are having a terrible season. Some people might care more about game times.

I think the actual entertainment and in game experience is about as good as possible. They need to work on making the stadium more comfortable, shorter lines at concession and entrances, and improvements on the lower west side where most of the "Regular Joe Alumni" like me are sitting. I would be happy if they made the entire lower deck chairbacks as well. By god it's 2019 and we have money to do upgrades. They just need to get off their *** and do them.

Either way, the University is about to be forced to come up with creative ways to keep people in the stadium. If IB has not realized it by now, he will soon.

 

[L4Dawg]

So you’d be fine if MSU ditched the SEC and started playing in the Sun Belt since you don’t care about the opponents? Got it.

Don't be asinine. That's a completely different topic. I like the pushover games myself. The tickets are cheaper and it's not as nerve wracking.

 

[MSU601Dawg]

Biggest attendance issue is crappy games. I think P5 schools should play 11 P5 schools per year. Team performance is crucial to fill up the stadium, but as long as the team is considered "good" by the fan base, if the quality of opponents is high, I would think more people would go.

Beating the **** outta Abilene Christian is no long enticing unless it's one of the only or few games a fan can make. That's my opinion.

I second this take, especially when it comes to buying season tickets.

If 3 of the 7 home games are against terrible FCS/G5 teams, we just don't have interest in going to those any more. And the resale market for those games is terrible, so you're never making back the money you paid for those tickets (when you include BDC price per seat donations) when you sell.

The gap between P5's and G5 (and especially FCS) teams has just become too big, those games aren't at all appealing anymore, they're glorified scrimmages, and they make up 40% of your home schedule.

I'm all for 75-100% of the non con being P5 vs P5 just for our entertainment value to to raise the value of buying season tix.

It would increase my interest level greatly if we scheduled teams we've never played before that are in P5 conferences that "belong on the field" against an SEC team

 

[MSU601Dawg]

Honestly the game time nor the heat affect our decision to come all that much. I'm used to the heat, and there are positives to morning game times (you don't have to make a 2-3 hour drive home at 11pm at night). I kind of like being able to be home by 4-6 to watch the night games

 

[TheStateUofMS]

No, I like to see quality match ups. I'm not sure if this is a lame attempt at sarcasm or it totally went over your head.

Maybe you get a boner watching State beat up on USM and FCS schools like Abilene Christian though. If you do, that's great for you.

 

[Phil Wenneck.sixpack]

It's the issue with attendance. On field play hasn't helped but if we were

undefeated right now, we'd be facing the same obstacles. The 11 AM bs has killed us probably more so than most schools. In the grand scheme of things, Starkville and the Golden Triangle is only a small fraction of our game goers. It's a 2+ hour drive from anywhere in the Jackson area and a 3 hour drive from Memphis and Desoto county. There's no chance of anyone tailgating or doing any pregame events unless they want to leave their house by 6 or so on a Saturday. For alot of people, the pregame stuff whether it be socializing, seeing old friends, tailgating, or whatever is half the reason they come in the first place.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

It would also make the CFP more interesting because you would have more teams with 1-3 losses each season make the CFP. All the games would matter more.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Your honesty is refreshing.

 

[Maroonthirteen]

Don't be asinine. That's a completely different topic. I like the pushover games myself. The tickets are cheaper and it's not as nerve wracking.

Me too. Half the attraction is visiting Starkville and campus. If we get to see State beat a sunbelt team ......great.

I prefer that over watching LSU and Bama and 20k of their fans beat our ***.

 

[Go Budaw]

Biggest attendance issue is crappy games. I think P5 schools should play 11 P5 schools per year. Team performance is crucial to fill up the stadium, but as long as the team is considered "good" by the fan base, if the quality of opponents is high, I would think more people would go.

Beating the **** outta Abilene Christian is no long enticing unless it's one of the only or few games a fan can make. That's my opinion.

Agreed that there are too many crappy games. But you have this ridiculous and pointless bowl system that people keep tailoring their schedules to, so, reform it the following way:

1) Go to a 9 game conference, 2 Power 5, 1 G5/FCS schedule for all Power 5 teams and major independents (who would play 11 Power 5 opponents). This reduces the number of ****** games by 67%.
2) Reduce requirement for bowl eligibility from 6 wins over anybody to 5 wins over FBS teams, with an FCS counting once every 4 years. This is more or less already in play....some 5-7 team gets a bowl bid just about every year now it seems.
3) Create new rule allowing any teams that achieve bowl eligibility, but are not selected to have the same number of additional practices as bowl teams, if they so choose. These practices can take place during the normal bowl prep timing, or can be added on to the spring practice schedule.

Bottom line...if you can’t go at least 4-6 against FBS opponents, you don’t deserve a bowl. We didn’t deserve one in 2016, and aside from the practice time, we really got absolutely no benefit from playing in it. Folks who watched the game sure didn’t get any satisfaction from it. But, we still would have gotten in under the system above.

 

[MoBamba]

Besides the record heat, I feel like travel youth teams continue to grow because little Johnny has to be on a travel team to keep up with little Jimmy which in turn means more families of 3-5 are not going to games on a Saturday. I do not have data to support this hypothesis.

 

[thekimmer]

Sell: Our disappointing under-performance last year, squandering the best State defense many of us might ever see, capped by an explosive diarrhea bed shating in the Outback set a bad vibe coming into this season. The weather didn't help any either. Now the team has done nothing to help things along so far this season.

 

[msudawg12]

Kickoff Times, Heat, etc have played the biggest role so far.

Not being competitive at Auburn will do more damage than any of those did...

 

[Go Budaw]

Don't be asinine. That's a completely different topic. I like the pushover games myself. The tickets are cheaper and it's not as nerve wracking.

Its not a completely different topic at all. The topic is declining attendance, and it’s a 100% fact that the overwhelming majority of fans prefer to attend games against big name teams. The actual attendance numbers and the ticket prices on third party websites are hard evidence of this. Your personal preference is irrelevant. If you want to solve the problem, this is one of very few options that exist to do so.

 

[Bulldogg31]

This year’s home schedule not much better...other than K State the choices are:

1. Come watch State blow out an overmatched opponent, or

2. Come watch State be overmatched and blown out by an opponent.

Not a whole lot of in between.

 

[shotgunDawg]

The feeling that you can't compete for championships is also part of the issue. No hope.

The best thing that an MSU fan can really hope for is a 10-2 season, which would lead to us losing our coach & possibly our AD

That's a huge issue. The current recruiting structure in college football makes it virtually impossible for anyone outside of about 7-10 programs to really build anything

 

[00Dawg]

I think recent numbers aren't backing you up.

2018 attendance:
SFA: 54,289
ULL: 56,505
UF: 61,406
Auburn: 60,635
TAMU: 57,085
LaTech: 58,709
Arkansas: 57,772

That says the name of the opponent could only account for between 5.2% (TAMU vs SFA) and 13.1% (UF vs SFA) of your crowd.
I'd go so far as to argue the size of the opposing fan base accounts for most of that difference anyway.

 

[msu_wx]

There will be plenty more chilly September games in the future.

Agree with your assessments. I'd add, as someone who never comes to games, I do like 11am kickoffs. I fully realize having a lot of 11s isn't a good thing. But yeah it looks like the days of chilly late September (hell, early October) games are over, so need to get more shade up quick.

 

[Go Budaw]

2018 attendance:
SFA: 54,289
ULL: 56,505
UF: 61,406
Auburn: 60,635
TAMU: 57,085
LaTech: 58,709
Arkansas: 57,772

That says the name of the opponent could only account for between 5.2% (TAMU vs SFA) and 13.1% (UF vs SFA) of your crowd.
I'd go so far as to argue the size of the opposing fan base accounts for most of that difference anyway.

Are you saying that 5% to 13% is not a hugely significant amount of people? Its not like we have 30,000 empty seats. There are going to be 45,000 that are going to be there no matter what, unless we are Croom level bad. The attendance argument at its core is how do you get that 5 to 13% (and then some) there every game, and how you get the students to hang out past halfway through the 2nd quarter?

Also, I think its a lot higher than that in actuality. Maybe more like 8-13%. SFA was the first game of the Moorhead era, when there was a lot of anticipation on how the new team was going to look. That’s normally a game where we would barely scratch 50,000.

 

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

Biggest attendance issue is crappy games. I think P5 schools should play 11 P5 schools per year. Team performance is crucial to fill up the stadium, but as long as the team is considered "good" by the fan base, if the quality of opponents is high, I would think more people would go.

Beating the **** outta Abilene Christian is no long enticing unless it's one of the only or few games a fan can make. That's my opinion.

9 game conference schedule + one P5 nonconference

 

[ll Martain ll]

Unfortunately upgrading from bleachers to chairbacks isn’t always practical. The stadium tread depth has to be big enough to accommodate (typically 33” in new stadiums) the extra depth chairbacks need. I don’t know what DWS’s row depth is in the lower bowl, but If I had to guess based on when it was originally built it would be 28” or 30” row depth in the lower bowl. The chairbacks physically might not fit.

There’s no retrofit in the world short of tear down and rebuild to fix bleacher rise/run. And even that can get sticky making sure sight lines still work with what’s behind. That said if chairbacks DO fit, that should 100% be MSUs next renovation.

 

[00Dawg]

No, I'm just saying you're wrong.

The actual attendance numbers don't show that the overwhelming majority of fans prefer to attend games against big name teams, or at the very least, it's nowhere near the deciding factor.
Throw out the SFA game...there were more people in DWS for the ULL matchup anyway.

500 more people showed up for TAMU than ULL. Only 500 more.
Given the respective size of their fanbases, I get to start making claims that more State fans came to see us play ULL than Texas A&M.
86 degrees in September at 6 PM: 56,505 fans in the seats to see us take on the mighty Ragin' Cajuns.
61 degrees in October at 6 PM, 57,085 fans watch us play the Aggies.

Keep going: 61 degrees for a 6 PM kickoff in November against La Tech, and we have 58,709 on hand.
59 degrees for an 11 AM kickoff against Arkansas, and attendance drops to 57,772.

I'm afraid you have picked the wrong hill to die on.
The weather guys have a claim.
The kick-off time guys have a claim.
The team performance guys have a claim.
The name quality of the opponent? You can make an argument we shouldn't play FCS teams. That's about it.

 

[cytubb]

You bunch of damn pansies! My dad is 83 and mom is 81, they have not missed a game and yes we sat in the sun every game until zero on the clock. We don’t need you damn sissies. Go pull for a ice hockey team.